Elementalist Mains: What do we want from an Elite spec?

[AshenOwl.2485]

Even non-Ele mains think the Catalyst is a letdown, and it got me thinking about what I was hoping for and what the community was expecting. So, I wanted to give a breakdown of what I'd like to see from Elementalist in the future.

First, let's start with the weapon. I actually like what they tried to do with hammer, but I think most of us agree it missed the mark. But having a weapon that has multiple range identities is a very cool idea I'd like to see with future Elite Specs. Hammer doesn't do it well because Hammer 3 is the same in each attunement, it doesn't have enough active sustain (which is paramount on Elementalist), or the mobility you'd expect from a weapon set with multiple ranges.

Second, let's look at the utilities. Augments are just Stances with extra steps- I know I'm not the first to say so, but I think it bears repeating. Personally, I was hoping for something like Wells or Spirits, which I think Elementalist could have made great use of. Especially after seeing Specter's wells, which are such a great blend of core Thief and existing well mechanics. That's what I'd like to see from more elite spec utilities across the board.

Finally, let's look at the Elite Mechanic. Typically this involves the Core Class profession mechanics, but Daredevil, Mirage, and Vindicator alter the dodge mechanic while leaving the profession mechanic relatively intact. Catalyst adds an F5 that has a largely independent energy system, but doesn't really interact with core attunements. Elementalist, imo, has the most difficult Profession Mechanic to design around. You can't change much without essentially having a whole new system to balance.

Still, I think there are options to consider. For instance, some people want to see a "camp an element" elite spec. One option to consider would be a system that keeps you attuned to a single element until you build up enough of a resource to switch attunements. The resource could be a stacking buff that increases related element attacks, incentivizing camping one attunement for a time, but switching attunements would get rid of the buff and force you to start from scratch.

An Attunement Shroud or Arcane Shroud is another popular option. I could definitely see an Arcane Shroud that benefits from critical hits being a thing (since Arcane skills are typically related to critical hits). I'm a big fan of transform skills, and I could see this being similar to the Archon skill from Diablo III, one of my favorite moves (even if it did make the Wizard build meta pretty stale for a while). I'd even take a pet mechanic, like Mechanist is getting. A permanent elemental that changes its element to match your attunement could have been neat.

Anyway, these are just some of my ideas. What did the rest of you want to see, or still hope to see in the future?

 

[Stallic.2397]

All good points. I personally don't think Catalyst is irredeemable but Anet has to listen to the community and make the necessary changes. Changes that are well expounded in different threads. 

7 hours ago, tesnow.4721 said:

An Attunement Shroud or Arcane Shroud is another popular option. I could definitely see an Arcane Shroud that benefits from critical hits being a thing (since Arcane skills are typically related to critical hits). I'm a big fan of transform skills, and I could see this being similar to the Archon skill from Diablo III, one of my favorite moves (even if it did make the Wizard build meta pretty stale for a while). I'd even take a pet mechanic, like Mechanist is getting. A permanent elemental that changes its element to match your attunement could have been neat.

 

Anyway, these are just some of my ideas. What did the rest of you want to see, or still hope to see in the future?

 

 

As for your question. An Arcanest would've been the next best thing for Elem. Couple of ways you can go about creating an elite spec of that sort.

 

First idea was just having a fifth attunement. Arcane Attunement requires charging up, most likely a build up from how many times you critically attack. Then you swap attunements to Arcane and attain massive damage abilities. This would have introduced new abilities to all mainhand weapons. Weapon skills that fully round out the weapon and flesh out any weaknesses. Like Dagger gets a knockback/launch. Or Scepter gets a block. Etc. 

 

Second way is making Arcanest get access to only three attunements. So Arcane Attunement is one, and then the other two are decided on how the player picks his traits. So if he traits in Fire/Air/Arcane. Then those are his weapon attunements as well. No Earth or Water anymore. The advantage though, is weapon Swap! Two weapons, Three Attunements Each. 

 

Preferable Longbow or Greatsword for both Ideas. Longbow Elem could've got traps and Greatsword could've got Mantra's for their utility skills. But sadly, these ideas are now dreams for 3-4 years from now. Hopefully Anet fixes Catalyst before launch. 

[Cyndercat.7615]

I used to be an ele main but switched to guard a couple of years ago since its just better overall. Catalyst is pretty much the opposite of anything I could want from ele to make it my main again.

 

I was hoping for a long range (1200) power dps spec that rewards camping an attunement over swapping attunements frequently. Ideally with a longbow, but rifle would also have been fine. Gs or even hammer could have worked if it worked similar to mesmer gs. Couple of ideas of how it could work;

• Camping an attunement increases power stat up to a cap.
• Camping an attunement fills an energy bar that enhances that attunements weapon skills with more damage or additional effects. 
• Steal virtuosos bladesongs and have 'daggers', arrows, bullets w.e charge up the longer you stay in an attument that can then fire similar to virtuosos active f skills. 

 

I would also have been pretty happy with arcanist spec with an f5 that either enhances other attunements or replaces 1-2 attunements.

What I dont want to see;

• Multiple range weapons that require dashing in and out of melee. tempest does this well enough.
• Any melee focused weapons.
• A spec that just adds more skills through f5. Ele already had the problem with have too many skills that do basically nothing and requiring 10 skills to do the job other professions do with 5. Adding more skills on top of that isnt the solution imo.

 

I dont really care what utilities or elite it has as long as the skills are not overly complex and feel impactful. Catalyst utilities are both complex and unimpactful.

Edited October 27, 2021 by zombyturtle.5980

[Mogsterfortytwo.6712]

For an Arcane Attunement at this point I'd crib from Untamed's mechanic;

Arcane Attunement on F5 linked to weapon swap - use whatever but as soon as you hit F5 you're in longbow mode.

Longbow skills function like Glyphs; instead of attunement-based skills or an 'unleashed' skill they change secondary effects based on attunement and keep the same basic behaviour, but really focus on what those attunements are for i.e. damage/healing/control/defence. You aren't in the traditional attunement (more like directly switching the off-hand attunement in Weaver) so the impetus to cycle asap is reduced, at least if the weapon skills are good enough.

It is a forced 'your other weapon must be longbow' situation, but again if it's good enough it'll work. Just having the swap may be 'good enough' for devs though...

Utilities I agree traps or mantras could be good, I think tricks could also be an interesting way to go. To be really out there give them beast skills to apply to summoned creatures (which would have to stick around)!

Edited October 27, 2021 by Mogsterfortytwo.6712

[Noodle Ant.1605]

not really answering the question but i feel like a conjure revamp/rework could cause a similar effect. from what i see, many people (not necessarily ele mains) want a simplified playstyle from ele, and the ability to use/camp conjures effectively could answer their wishes without having wait for or occupy a future espec

 

updates and general fixes to elementals could satisfy some other people, while buffs/updates to core utility skills can help address other minor needs

[Downstate.4697]

They need it to be a functional boon support in pve. That being said, it doesnt offer a new playstyle that a longbow or rifle would have given us. If playing hammer is the only way for it to feel different then they designed it wrong.

[Yer.8096]

I just want not feel that I need to apologize when playing fractals as elementalist. I know everyone else on party is thinking: "Why, why elementalist?" Playing as ele, when you LFG, you just keep thinking... What party probably will accept me? I forgot how many times I was kicked just before enter on a party as ele...

 

1. Funtional support? Yes. One that make SENSE to be welcome in a party.

2. Damage? We have damage, but lack on survival. We need a little more survavability; or REAL MASSIVE dps to equal things (what I dont agree, but would be fair enough).

3. Meelee weapon? Only weapon that elementalist can really have long range is staff and they are almost useless compared with others!

4. A motivation to live (dramatic, I know, but that neglection with eles really made me sad and somentimes stop playing the game; specially after Catalyst beta - one that I had some hope). I'm really trying to find a motivation.

 

IMO, Anet just need to read players suggestions and complains. If you (ANet) want elementalists as a decorative profession, why just not sell them in Black Lion?

Edited October 27, 2021 by Yer.8096

[Neva Eilhart.5347]

Given how things have turned, I feel like you should list what you actually don't want the e-spec to be. Anet as a rule of thumb will do the exact opposite and you might end up with a new fun ranged weapon instead of this Catalyst thingy.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Neva Eilhart.5347

[draxynnic.3719]

4 hours ago, Mogsterfortytwo.6712 said:

For an Arcane Attunement at this point I'd crib from Untamed's mechanic;

Arcane Attunement on F5 linked to weapon swap - use whatever but as soon as you hit F5 you're in longbow mode.

Longbow skills function like Glyphs; instead of attunement-based skills or an 'unleashed' skill they change secondary effects based on attunement and keep the same basic behaviour, but really focus on what those attunements are for i.e. damage/healing/control/defence. You aren't in the traditional attunement (more like directly switching the off-hand attunement in Weaver) so the impetus to cycle asap is reduced, at least if the weapon skills are good enough.

It is a forced 'your other weapon must be longbow' situation, but again if it's good enough it'll work. Just having the swap may be 'good enough' for devs though...

Utilities I agree traps or mantras could be good, I think tricks could also be an interesting way to go. To be really out there give them beast skills to apply to summoned creatures (which would have to stick around)!

If you're cribbing off what happened with Bladesworn, it might not even need to be a longbow. Could instead swap to, say, an 'arcane' mode that has a set of skills unique to that mode, with whatever exotic spellcasting implement ArenaNet thinks up or even none at all.

[Mogsterfortytwo.6712]

No, Untamed works better. Going the Bladesworn method would :

A) Be Frost Bow 2.0 as a class mechanic. Imagine the feedback!

B) Would not give the spec a new weapon. Why would they effectively give two weapons to ele when it's more skills they have to design (which they seem to dread)?

[draxynnic.3719]

Not necessarily. The Bladesworn method is essentially analagous to things like holoforge and shroud except that it doesn't require resource management to use.

 

So there could be a new weapon. The distinction is that the Untamed method is that you need to use the new weapon to use the mechanic. What I'm suggesting there is to have an F5 - call it arcane attunement for the sake of argument - that can be accessed regardless of what weapon you have, but always gives the same five skills. Maybe when using it the elementalist 'wields' an orb of magical energy in both hands.

 

This would allow 'arcane attunement' to be implemented as only five skills, rather than fifteen plus however many the specialisation weapon has. Keeping the same skills regardless of weapon could also make it act as a pseudo-weaponswap. For instance, if 'arcane attunement' is ranged-focused, it could complement a ranged weapon, but could also be combined with dagger to allow for an elementalist that can genuinely swap between long- and close-range combat.

[Rodril.1385]

Hello.

I'm maining elementalyst for about two years (since i've started to play the game). Mostly i play WvW roaming and open world as weaver with my custom build. I enjoy so much weaver's flow and ability to adapt to various situations, that i doubt anything will make me change class in foreseable future, thus i care. I have a lot of fantasies about class mechanics aswell, but, speaking of new elite spec, i think current overall class design have few gaps that scream, demanding to be closed.

1. Class does not have 'easy' specialization / builds - something, that people usualy say about: "press 3, then 1, on low hp - press f2, and you are fine". I failed trying creating this myself, neither i found anything relative at metabattle. Let these builds be objectively less effective, but still viable. Elementalyst need it's version of Flamethrower engi.

2. Class does not have access to some important nowdays mechanics: quickness, alacrity, stealth, reveal. Don't give them all to new e-spec, at least one.

3. (1000 times stated before) Class lacks 1200+ single target weapon / specialization, despite in character creation screen stated that elementalyst "favors ranged".

Catalyst barely fixes only point #2, that is not enough. Whatever elite prototype does not cover all three points, will be just another version of weaver / tempest.

 

Now back to fantasies. Ifi desing new elite spec for elementalyst, how would i achieve all three goals?

Starting with first. Every elite spec currently changes meaning of attunement swap. I would keep this tradition, but would go in opposite direction of weaver: make both attunement cooldown and swap cooldown 16 sec.  That would allow us to significantly buff weapon skills by spec traits, while preventing players from spamming all attunements at once for absurdly powerfull combos. Won't it become too boring? Read further.

Second goal and also special mechanic. New e-spec would get F5 button - "Arcane influx", which would do few things:

1 - reset current attunement and swap cooldowns, while temporary disabling weapon skill boost from traits (ability for emergency swap, but discouraging offensive usage);

2 - change existing combo fields made by player: fire field becomes smoke field, water - poison, ice - dark, lightning - light (access to variety of effects, if finisher is available);

3 - do something depending on master trait slotted: grant alacrity (or quickness) to allies around or reveal enemies around.

F5 won't have cooldown, but will depend on 'energy', which have passive regeneration, and additional income upon damage taken.

Since spec is supposed to have low mobility (no fast access to movement abilities on weapons),  i suggest to change evade to dash similar to one, daredevil have. Make player character transform into mist while dashing, for esthetic sugar.

After changes above, staff should get back kind of viablity. New weapon could be even hammer, obvioulsy with other skills, than now. Without pathetic weapon #3, just variants of scepeter's skills with increased range.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Rodril.1385
Removed unwanted linebreaks.

[Orijah.3750]

I posted something more detailed on the catalyst feedback thread, but I'll share my thoughts here too.

I haven't played too long but love elementalist. However, there are some things that I wish the profession had. I would love a more viable support build (not a huge issue, just a preference) and I think a lot of people agree that a longer ranged caster style build would be amazing (one day staff will be good).

 

 At the moment I find both tempest and weaver lean towards shorter range playstyles (tempest overload casts around you, weaver is mostly melee). As much as I like mixed melee/range I really don't think it is needed on ele.

 

I haven't played catalyst fyi so this is just from what I have heard and seen.

weapon

Weapon is fine, some more ranged, big decisive spells would be cooler imo. I am not a fan of hammer 3, it seems to want to play more like weaver, encouraging swapping attunements asap.

 

utilities

I don't know much about these (I've heard they are basically stances). I was really hoping ele would get wells.

 

spec mechanic

I feel an arcane attunement would fit so well for ele. To keep with the theme of elementalist and to keep some unique style, I think the arcane attunement skills should still be defined by weapons. It would allow for some variability within ele.

 

My main thought process for this is:

- Weaver swaps attunements like crazy

- Tempest commits to an element overloading an attunement

- Arcanist? gets an entirely new attunement

 

This is quite a simple overview of my thoughts, I just really want a fun e-spec for ele. ☺️

 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

The short answer for me is "something new."  I have my own laments about Ele's design, but none of them can really be escalated into requiring an elite spec to remedy.  We have the melee duelist, we have the team support.  Something other than that would've been fine.  The catalyst... is just core with a delayed well.  What does the well do?  A whole lot of small things but nothing focused enough to matter.  The hammer players very similar to dagger/dagger.  

[Jski.6180]

Combo fields and finnishers that lead into group utility.

[Orijah.3750]

posting from reddit:

This looks incredible.

 

Also, has ANet responded to any of the feedback so far?

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

37 minutes ago, Orijah.3750 said:

posting from reddit:

This looks incredible.

 

Also, has ANet responded to any of the feedback so far?

This looks much better than what we've got with Catalyst.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I think the Catalyst would be fine if it wasn't clunky. The profession mechanic needs to be mobile, and move with the Ele, and the orb mechanic on the hammer needs to be available on all weapons.

 

But I don't see any spec replacing my Auramancer Tempest main. Its just too good to provide powerful group support and solo anything when I don't have allies on the same equipment and builds. The only advantage I could get from something else is group Aegis, Alacrity, Quickness or Stability.

 

The actual problem with Ele is that the Core traitlines are badly organised, and new Elites won't fix that.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[usernameisapain.7163]

I just returned to GW2 after a 6 year hiatus. Played since launch prior to that and mained ele. It was a serious threat back then, and sure there were some nerfs, but nothing major. 

Fast forward to now.... I am not sure how I feel, I still love playing the ele, tried out the elite specs, and find them very entertaining. However adjusting after 6 years to ele, and getting passably good again in wvw/pvp took some time, and build adjustments. Meanwhile I just tried my old guardian, fixed his trait lines, but pretty much ran the same non-elite build I had from 6 years ago, and aside from a few builds in wvw that countered what I was doing directly, I found myself winning/stalemating against 1 vs 1-4 on several occasions. Which was not something I was experiencing with ele at best 1vs2, but even then any encounter in wvw with my ele while roaming leaves me hesitant, whilst with my guardian I'm fairly confident that I can shake things up. 

My point being is that the core ele is fundamentally flawed. I say this, because the majority of non-weapon skills, even when traited are difficult to get to a good point, meanwhile my guardian's slotable skills generally leaves me troubled because there are so many good choices, whether I trait for them or not. That is not even touching of weapon skills. Like it has been said, with 4 attunements it seems that Anet is of the mind that we have to attune and use 2-3 times the skills to attain the effect of what would otherwise be 1 skill for another class. Whereas I see the logic of this, on paper, in practice this doesn't make sense, especially so in pvp. Cooldown on attunements alone is troublesome, including casting time, barring that you aren't interrupted in some way during the process, especially since Ele will rarely survive more than a couple of hits. I won't even begin touching on the weapon skill effects, overall I like them, I'm a pretty decent staff user even in 1vs1 situations, that being said, in general, what is the point of 4 attunements, when 1-2 of them are unutilized. In fact this leads to a different issue entirely, traits.

Comparatively with other classes, where they have 2 weapons, and utility skills, which can equal - 3 trait lines(notice that?) - the classes will be highly specialised to the weapon, and utility skills being used, there might be 1-2 skill in the weapon bars that are unused(unlikely), but there might be. This is where Ele face a real issue, 4 attunements + utility skills, which would require 5 trait lines to empower them all. No matter what we will only ever be able to maximise performance of 2 attunements, now I realise that trait lines can have synergy with other trait lines, but that is the case for all classes hence in comparison with other classes this is a real issue for elementalist. 

So what would I want from an elite spec? Actually I think hammer is great, they should have made the hammer skills ranged however 900-1200. 

1: Limit attunements  to 2, lock it so that only hammer can be used, and have the hammer skills match a hammer, depending on attunement high dps aoe, or single target disruption

Or

2: Limit attunements to 1 or 2, and make it all the weapon skills freely slotable when the elite spec is traited. 

Utility skills should be fast-cast and be either evasive or sustainable in nature.

Edited October 28, 2021 by usernameisapain.7163

[Dadnir.5038]

I can say what I don't want: "Core ele with an extra"

To put it simply, at this point, an elementalist e-spec need to part from the core tenets of the elementalist.

- Being locked into fire/air/water/earth is nice for a bit but the charm is long gone after close to 10 years of the same.

- Not being able to switch weapon while in combat also make thing boring as time pass (The elementalist give up to much gameplay dynamic with this constraint).

- Auras are nice and all but I was already disatisfied with them at HoT release and they didn't change since then. Having yet another spec that try to make this almost abandoned mechanism barely playable just kitten me off.

When you see that other professions at least try to explore new horizons instead of capitalizing always on the same boring thing, it's just infuriating.

I mean:

1. The Elementalist could have a "dodge spec", the elementalist is already force to dodge as much as possible to survive, how could it not end up creating a spec that rely on this more than the eternally boring attunement swapping?
2. The Elementalist could have an e-spec that allow him to assign a different weaponset for each attunment (would this really be that difficult to code? Wouldn't it be the logical developpement for a "conjure specialist")
3. The Elementalist could have a "pet spec", summoning an arcane golem or whatever (at least the spec would have a meat shield).
4. The Elementalist could have an "arcane shroud", I'd even sacrifice the elite skill slot "advantages and skills" for that!
5. The Elementalist could have "arcane" skills on their weapons that are affected by the attunments like the arcanes utilities are affected by elemental surge instead of the "classic" elementals skills. Add a weapon swap on top and it's "ok".
6. The Elementalist could have a 5th element called Leeloo (and no new weapon for all I care), it would be "different"!
7. ... etc.

 I can effortlessly find these 6 different concepts with many already available in game on other professions, how can a group of developpers stop themselves at: "Ok! Let's do Tempest 2.0!"

[crosknight.3041]

personally i like the idea behind the F5, execution was garbage though. if the traits were also more in line with executing the combo fields and hammer had more combo finishers then yeah a combo based spec would be great.

other then the fixes to catalyst i keep suggesting, i would like a spec with a shroud like mechanic or something like scourge shades, maybe something that lets you create elemental walls kinda wattsons fence in Apex Legends.

could also have a spec where elementalist loses 2 of it's attunements (you choose which 2 attunments you want to have equipted), gain weapon swap and some kind of F3 skill

[Sarm.5923]

On 10/28/2021 at 2:27 AM, Orijah.3750 said:

posting from reddit:

I love everything about this concept from the weapon choice to the 5th element and the skill mock-ups and now I'm bummed that it doesn't exist.

[kurosy.1384]

What would i expect from an Ele spec? I dunno at this point. I've been playing for 3 years, mainly Ele. I thought Ele was meant to be the range caster sorcerer, just because i started with the staff and fell in love with it, but indeed the Devs clarified that they see Ele as the bruiser who can do a bit of everything and that's completely out of my interests. Turns out GW2 doesn't have anything really dedicated to the mage ranged playstile i'm looking for, unless i'm into tankiness and condi, which i'm not. Today the only thing i hope is that anet won't nerf staff any further.

[Perderders.1489]

On 10/29/2021 at 8:30 AM, kurosy.1384 said:

What would i expect from an Ele spec? I dunno at this point. I've been playing for 3 years, mainly Ele. I thought Ele was meant to be the range caster sorcerer, just because i started with the staff and fell in love with it, but indeed the Devs clarified that they see Ele as the bruiser who can do a bit of everything and that's completely out of my interests. Turns out GW2 doesn't have anything really dedicated to the mage ranged playstile i'm looking for, unless i'm into tankiness and condi, which i'm not. Today the only thing i hope is that anet won't nerf staff any further.

 

Yeah, I gotta say I keep hoping for a return to range/staff effectiveness, something along the lines of a more classical mage.  I'm not really into these dagger/sword mix it up builds.  

[Arheundel.6451]

On 10/29/2021 at 1:30 PM, kurosy.1384 said:

What would i expect from an Ele spec? I dunno at this point. I've been playing for 3 years, mainly Ele. I thought Ele was meant to be the range caster sorcerer, just because i started with the staff and fell in love with it, but indeed the Devs clarified that they see Ele as the bruiser who can do a bit of everything and that's completely out of my interests. Turns out GW2 doesn't have anything really dedicated to the mage ranged playstile i'm looking for, unless i'm into tankiness and condi, which i'm not. Today the only thing i hope is that anet won't nerf staff any further.

The GW2 community will throw a tantrum if they face anything else but huge PBAoE builds....if GW2 had anything similar to the dunno...the bright wizard from Warhammer Online...you'd see 3/4 of the community crying so much, you could fill the black see area with that amount of salty water.

 

Staff ele used to be good but then yeah...after years worth of salty cries...that's what we have today.