The Echovald Wilds GW2 Era

[EdwinLi.1284]

Looks like things went well with the forest since it was mentioned 6 years after Shiro's defeat the forest was returning to normal slowly. 

Looks like we may meet a Resistance faction or a new enemy faction within the Echovald Wilds as well. 

I am cruious if the Green tree people are either Wardens or the new Juggernauts. A lot of small lore to pick from this trailer alone but only the small bits until full access.

(PS I see potentially new Hair Styles in GW2 EoD on the NPCs in this trailer.)
 

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[Fueki.4753]

This trailer doesn't say much to me.

Maybe they'll explain a few things on friday.

[radda.8920]

I am a little reassured.

I find shing jea absolutely abominable on all levels .But there ,it really looks like guild wars 1 with more vegetation, the cathedrals look splendid,  wait and see friday

Edited November 10, 2021 by radda.8920

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

I'm get the feeling that the order they are showing off the maps is the order we play them in the expansion.

Like, we sneak/arrive illegally into Cantha on Shing Jea, and find out how bad the situation with Bubbles/the Canthan Empire is there. Since we can't just send in the Pact to attack a sovereign nation, or send military forces into a sovereign nation that hasn't asked for our help, we, instead of going into Kaineng City next, go to the Echovald, then the Jade Sea, to round up various resistance/anti-government forces. Then we move into Kaineng City to fight bubbles/the Canthan Empire's forces at the end.

Would make for an interesting reversal of the order of Factions.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Dami.5046]

Wanted this expansion to see how Echovald would look like in GW2 and I wasn't disappointed. 

[Randulf.7614]

Looking like a pretty good evolution from GW1

[rylien.3824]

For my part I find it much better than Shing Jea! For now it looks decent, I remain mixed because there are 2-3 weird things (maybe it's just the game that got old and gives me the impression), but I feel like it's "empty", with 2-3 stems planted in the ground and that's it. There are certain areas like the cathedrals, or the gate (with the bridge, and the Glowing Jade statues ... [no comments]) that I find not bad at all, but as for certain things like the Tengus swarming everywhere ... (I hope for them that there is a rational, logical and suitable explanation for LORE because otherwise it would be a bit of a ***** ...).

 

Now only a Guild Wars player first of the name will be able to give a true verdict on the quality and the veracity of the map in question compared to 250 years ago.

So veterans, what do you think ?
 

[Deihnyx.6318]

I personally loved this teaser, but I reserve my judgement until the mighty Urgoz comes back :).
Taxi anyone?

Edited November 10, 2021 by Deihnyx.6318

[Faridah.8431]

Looks great. One thing I did notice was noticeably Canthan (not Kurzick) buildings in this trailer of similar style to Shing Jea buildings (examples: 0:15, 0:25, 0:31).

[EdwinLi.1284]

1 hour ago, Faridah.8431 said:

Looks great. One thing I did notice was noticeably Canthan (not Kurzick) buildings in this trailer of similar style to Shing Jea buildings (examples: 0:15, 0:25, 0:31).

Not surprised since by lore the Kurzick society should have been dismantled with the Luxons long ago. If there are any Kurzicks left, they most likely are just intergrated into current Canthan society with their culture only passed down as memories. 

Speaking of Luxons, I am interested to see how much of the Jade Sea is now water once again since there were rumors the Jade Sea was returning to normal slowly as well 6 years after the defeat of Shiro.

Edited November 11, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[Poormany.4507]

Much more excited for this map than Shing-Jea - The environment looks really nice on this one!  Also, if the Echovald returned to mostly plants, did the Jade Sea mostly melt?

Although I am again wondering: Why are there so many Tengu everywhere in Shing-Jea and now the Echovald even though they were being genocided less than 250 years ago?

Edited November 11, 2021 by Poormany.4507

[BobbyT.7192]

Juggernaut looks pretty sick, at least I think it's a Juggernaut. Don't think wardens are that big.

Edited November 11, 2021 by BobbyT.7192

[EdwinLi.1284]

2 hours ago, Poormany.4507 said:

Much more excited for this map than Shing-Jea - The environment looks really nice on this one!  Also, if the Echovald returned to mostly plants, did the Jade Sea mostly melt?

Although I am again wondering: Why are there so many Tengu everywhere in Shing-Jea and now the Echovald even though they were being genocided less than 250 years ago?

The Ministry did hunt them down but they were only successful within the City. Outside the City is a entirely different story since Shing Jea acts separate from the Canthan Government and the regions outside of the city are ideal hiding spots for those on the run.

Not all Tengu were expect to have manage to escape Cantha so those that are left behind can be reasonable to assume remained in hiding in regions outside the city and in Shing Jea Islands.

Speaking of Kaineng City, I wonder if they have built walls around the City now to keep out anyone they don't want getting into the city.

Edited November 11, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[The Greyhawk.9107]

Since when was Shing Jea not under the purview of the Canthan government?

[firedragon.8953]

My favorite place in Factions was Echovald, and this teaser did not disappoint. Looks nice!

[EdwinLi.1284]

5 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Since when was Shing Jea not under the purview of the Canthan government?

I said acts separately, not they are not part of the Canthan government and their influence.

However, the more correct way to see it is that Shing Jea Islands may not have been so obedient with the current government that is under Ministry of Purity control considering what we saw happen in Wind of Change.

Remember in Wind of Change we saw the incident that lead to the villages of Shing Jea Island side against the Ministry of Purity in the quest A Treaty's a Treaty. This was most likely the beginning of what lead to how Shing Jea is today with Tengu being able to walk and live among the locals of Shing Jea Island while still have enough influence that the Ministry of Purity could not fully enforce their laws on Shing Jea Island. The Ministry of Purity can establish a presence in Shing Jea Island but their influence are most likely not that large compared to their influence within Kaineng City.

Edited November 11, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[Faridah.8431]

20 hours ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

Not surprised since by lore the Kurzick society should have been dismantled with the Luxons long ago. If there are any Kurzicks left, they most likely are just intergrated into current Canthan society with their culture only passed down as memories. 

Speaking of Luxons, I am interested to see how much of the Jade Sea is now water once again since there were rumors the Jade Sea was returning to normal slowly as well 6 years after the defeat of Shiro.

Yeah, wondered how that would be handled though as their culture was definitely different than mainline Cantha (as are the Luxons), and presumably they still exist as a people.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

19 hours ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

The Ministry did hunt them down but they were only successful within the City. Outside the City is a entirely different story since Shing Jea acts separate from the Canthan Government and the regions outside of the city are ideal hiding spots for those on the run.

Not all Tengu were expect to have manage to escape Cantha so those that are left behind can be reasonable to assume remained in hiding in regions outside the city and in Shing Jea Islands.

Speaking of Kaineng City, I wonder if they have built walls around the City now to keep out anyone they don't want getting into the city.

This is false on multiple accounts.

 

First off is the misconception that Shing Jea is separate from the Canthan Government. This is 100% false. It is the Echovald Forest and Jade Sea which functioned - key tense there - as separate from the Canthan Government. The Kurzick Great Houses and the Luxon Armada are still vassal states, but over the centuries until the reign of Emperor Usoku, the two factions had become largely autonomous. Shing Jea Island, however, was never autonomous. That island is literally the empire's breadbasket and the primary source of food for the entire empire what with the overpopulation caused by the Jade Wind forcing folks north into the city causing mass expansions ruining almost all mainland crop locales (also the petrification of the echovald and jade sea greatly dampering the food resources in those regions too).

The empire didn't just allow Shing Jea to act autonomously, the Canthan Empire couldn't afford to allow such because any lack of food from Shing Jea = masses starving in the city.

This is ultimately what sparked the Tengu Wars, because the increased need of farmland meant expanding farms on Shing Jea, this resulted in encroaching on tengu territory and the spread of disease from human to tengu due to increased contact and people from different locales (and thus exposure to different bacteria) moving in.

The heavy influence the Empire had over Shing Jea was even showcased during Dragon Festival in GW1, where Emperor Kisu would visit Shing Jea Monastery to oversee things for a bit.

 

Second off is the notion that the Ministry of Purity were only successful in hunting down tengu in Kaineng City. While this is true (to a degree, more later on the Star tengu below) in the scope of Winds of Change's main plot, this was never the primary moment of the Canthan military hunting down non-humans - tengu included - and forcing them out of the empire's lands. As established in The Movement of the World and later on in the core game itself, Emperor Usoku, who's reign began decades after GW1 and Winds of Change, established a campaign and this campaign reached to Shing Jea Island.

We know this primarily because of two things. Firstly, the Canthan tengu to leave Cantha and arrive in Kryta were the Angchu - one of three tengu tribes living in Cantha, the others being the Sensali and the Star tengu - and secondly because one of the big figures of the Canthan tengu exile heading  to Kryta was Talon Silverwing's grandson, and Talon's family were notably tengu from Shing Jea Island.

Side Note: it's entirely plausible that the Star tengu weren't an actual tribe but some sort of gang or guild or some such, it's never really brought up on in detail but they were of decent population on the mainland, but also distinctly separate from The Roost which is what got wiped out during Winds of Change; the Star tengu were MIA for all of Winds of Change - we do not know why. The Star tengu mostly appear akin to Sensali but there were only three tengu models for all of Cantha's tengu in GW1; the size, exact nature, and fate of the Star tengu are ultimately unknown.

 

Third off, the videos we see do not show the tengu in hiding at all. One tengu is quite directly shown as a teacher in Shing Jea's training grounds. Reprising a role similar to the aforementioned Talon Silverwing, this is very much as in-the-spotlight as one can manage to be. Trying to argue that these tengu a) were from Tyria or b) are currently in hiding.

 

And I want to stress something: Usoku united the empire in his military campaign - this was the last bit of information we got. Kaineng City is not the extent of the empire, but now Shing Jea, Kaineng City, that western urban area we never got to visit in GW1, the Echovald Forest, and the Jade Sea (and perhaps more) are - and were - in the empire, and firmly under control of it during Usoku's reign; so if there was some walls built, it wouldn't just be around the city, which has zero food resources on its own other than some light coastal fishing. On top of that, Cantha never went full on xenophobic to the point of total isolation - they held political isolation, not physical isolation. In Sea of Sorrows, Cobiah Marriner had traveled to Kaineng City as part of formal trade between Kryta and Cantha - this happened during Usoku's reign, due to the dates, and after his military campaign began. So while they kicked out non-Canthans from living in Cantha, they never prevented foreigners from visiting Cantha.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[EdwinLi.1284]

3 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

This is false on multiple accounts.

 

First off is the misconception that Shing Jea is separate from the Canthan Government. This is 100% false. It is the Echovald Forest and Jade Sea which functioned - key tense there - as separate from the Canthan Government. The Kurzick Great Houses and the Luxon Armada are still vassal states, but over the centuries until the reign of Emperor Usoku, the two factions had become largely autonomous. Shing Jea Island, however, was never autonomous. That island is literally the empire's breadbasket and the primary source of food for the entire empire what with the overpopulation caused by the Jade Wind forcing folks north into the city causing mass expansions ruining almost all mainland crop locales (also the petrification of the echovald and jade sea greatly dampering the food resources in those regions too).

The empire didn't just allow Shing Jea to act autonomously, the Canthan Empire couldn't afford to allow such because any lack of food from Shing Jea = masses starving in the city.

This is ultimately what sparked the Tengu Wars, because the increased need of farmland meant expanding farms on Shing Jea, this resulted in encroaching on tengu territory and the spread of disease from human to tengu due to increased contact and people from different locales (and thus exposure to different bacteria) moving in.

The heavy influence the Empire had over Shing Jea was even showcased during Dragon Festival in GW1, where Emperor Kisu would visit Shing Jea Monastery to oversee things for a bit.

 

Second off is the notion that the Ministry of Purity were only successful in hunting down tengu in Kaineng City. While this is true (to a degree, more later on the Star tengu below) in the scope of Winds of Change's main plot, this was never the primary moment of the Canthan military hunting down non-humans - tengu included - and forcing them out of the empire's lands. As established in The Movement of the World and later on in the core game itself, Emperor Usoku, who's reign began decades after GW1 and Winds of Change, established a campaign and this campaign reached to Shing Jea Island.

We know this primarily because of two things. Firstly, the Canthan tengu to leave Cantha and arrive in Kryta were the Angchu - one of three tengu tribes living in Cantha, the others being the Sensali and the Star tengu - and secondly because one of the big figures of the Canthan tengu exile heading  to Kryta was Talon Silverwing's grandson, and Talon's family were notably tengu from Shing Jea Island.

Side Note: it's entirely plausible that the Star tengu weren't an actual tribe but some sort of gang or guild or some such, it's never really brought up on in detail but they were of decent population on the mainland, but also distinctly separate from The Roost which is what got wiped out during Winds of Change; the Star tengu were MIA for all of Winds of Change - we do not know why. The Star tengu mostly appear akin to Sensali but there were only three tengu models for all of Cantha's tengu in GW1; the size, exact nature, and fate of the Star tengu are ultimately unknown.

 

Third off, the videos we see do not show the tengu in hiding at all. One tengu is quite directly shown as a teacher in Shing Jea's training grounds. Reprising a role similar to the aforementioned Talon Silverwing, this is very much as in-the-spotlight as one can manage to be. Trying to argue that these tengu a) were from Tyria or b) are currently in hiding.

 

And I want to stress something: Usoku united the empire in his military campaign - this was the last bit of information we got. Kaineng City is not the extent of the empire, but now Shing Jea, Kaineng City, that western urban area we never got to visit in GW1, the Echovald Forest, and the Jade Sea (and perhaps more) are - and were - in the empire, and firmly under control of it during Usoku's reign; so if there was some walls built, it wouldn't just be around the city, which has zero food resources on its own other than some light coastal fishing. On top of that, Cantha never went full on xenophobic to the point of total isolation - they held political isolation, not physical isolation. In Sea of Sorrows, Cobiah Marriner had traveled to Kaineng City as part of formal trade between Kryta and Cantha - this happened during Usoku's reign, due to the dates, and after his military campaign began. So while they kicked out non-Canthans from living in Cantha, they never prevented foreigners from visiting Cantha.

Did you not read what I said in my next comment?

I said they are not separated from the Cantha Government but are still within the Cathan Government but acted separately from certain faction's interests which would have allowed them to allow Tengu to live among the residence of Shing Jea Islands.

Also, I never said the Tengu are in hiding in Shing Jea in current time frame of GW2. I am speaking about the time before GW2 during the time when Emperor Usoku was hunting the Tengu in Cantha. I also said "assume" which means it is not facts but just a possible theory we may assume that certain people within Shing Jea were not so compliant publicly about hunting down the Tengu. We are only reading about the events told through the words of historians in GW2 world and historians tend to miss things or twist things after all when it comes down to the actual events.

I am starting to feel like I need to write a full two to three page essay everytime I say something just so people won't misunderstand what I am saying in my comments or when I talk about possible theories.

Edited November 12, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[draxynnic.3719]

I think one thing to keep in mind here is that GW1 had a lot of territory that was theoretically under the control of one nation or another, but where you didn't need to go far away from towns, outposts, and fortifications to find hostile sapients. Grawl in Ascalon, heket (and technically centaurs, even if they allied with the Sunspears) in Elona, naga in Shing Jea, wardens in Echovald, and so on, even the Caromi Tengu in Kryta.

About the only recorded case of a genocide instigated by a post-Exodus national leader succeeding was Elonian centaurs, and even then it's possible that Joko didn't actually get all of them, we just haven't found the ones that escaped. I guess you could include the mursaat as well, but that wasn't exactly normal circumstances.

So I think it's entirely possible that Usoku's pogram was bad enough to trigger an exodus, but not so total that it succeeded in wiping out every tengu that didn't escape. There are probably wilderness regions that the pogram didn't reach, and if there were human populations that were willing to help hide and support the tengu, that would increase the chance of at least some tengu surviving until policies changed.

Edited November 12, 2021 by draxynnic.3719

[Ashantara.8731]

I hope we learn what became of the Kurzick (and the Luxon). Those once beautiful cathedrals now being misused by modern Canthans with their ugly technology! 😪

On 11/10/2021 at 4:01 PM, EdwinLi.1284 said:

I am cruious if the Green tree people are either Wardens or the new Juggernauts.

They do resemble the Wardens from GW1.

On 11/10/2021 at 4:01 PM, EdwinLi.1284 said:

 

Is it just me or are colors oversatured in the Echovald forest as well, following the trend we have seen on Shing Jea island?
 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[EdwinLi.1284]

7 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I hope we learn what became of the Kurzick (and the Luxon). Those once beautiful cathedrals now being misused by modern Canthans with their ugly technology! 😪

They do resemble the Wardens from GW1.

Is it just me or are colors oversatured in the Echovald forest as well, following the trend we have seen on Shing Jea island?
 

I think it is just the color choice they made with the plant's color in Cantha region.

GW2 developers always did try to make the in game appearance like a painting made 3D. Don't know why they choose this type of green but guess it is to reflect how the place may look like in a 2D painting.

Edited November 12, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[Ashantara.8731]

2 minutes ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

I think it is just the color choice they made with the plant's color in Cantha region.

That doesn't explain the weird teal fog everywhere, though.

[EdwinLi.1284]

39 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

That doesn't explain the weird teal fog everywhere, though.

The Fog is something I think is new and maybe related to a event that happened in the past we don't know about yet.

It is best we wait until the GW2 developers starts discussing about the location since we are unware about any unknown events not mentioned in the current lore. 

However, it never hurts to speculate about things since this is why I made this post so people can speculate and make theories about we have been shown so far. That is the best we can do for now.

Edited November 12, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[Kayberz.5346]

I really wish people would shut up already about the saturation.

 

From what ive seen it just looks like a case of the graphic settings they use to make these videos.

 

For example during the sneak peeks for the elite specs the graphics and effects looked very different from how they actually looked in game when we got to play them