Are people in the Guild Wars universe (generally) immune to aging... ?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

6 hours ago, Arnox.5128 said:

Well... But healing magic IS in the game. And it's very effective. lol So the natural question arises, why CAN'T they use it to reverse the harmful effects of natural aging? It may even be an unpreventable but happy side effect of healing wounds and unnatural maladies.

Maybe very few people are just too poor to afford the magic and/or maybe aren't knowledgeable enough to cast themselves. Because ****. How many people in GW2 look like literal supermodels? (I mean, I'm certainly not complaining at all, but there it is.) Because you WOULD look like a supermodel after dosing up like crazy on healing magic during wartime.

Well, there's no evidence to suggest healing magic is capable of reversing the aging of cells.

6 hours ago, Arnox.5128 said:

Sorry, forgot to reply. Keep in mind, the Guild Wars universe is one of the most war-heavy (go figure) fantasy universes... Ever. I think only the Warhammer universe actually tops it. There's so many kitten wars and conflicts in Guild Wars. Wars for everyone. Everyone's invited! So it would make sense that the life expectancy is so (relatively) short even though technically very few are actually naturally suffering from age.

Aware about the war and casualties of not-old-age. I am specifically referring to the gravestones that are specifically talking about people who die old.

There's very few, if any, gravestones of people living over 90. Tyria may be "war-heavy", but people aren't all dying to war. And I would very much disagree that only Warhammer tops GW's war focus - there's no war in the asura, sylvari, or norn regions technically.

[ugrakarma.9416]

another thing, is the mortality rate, if gw2 universe is setted on some "middle ages" or "ancient age", the life expectancy inst high...

actually countries torned apart from wars like iraq or afganisthan have 60%+ of population with less 30yo.

ofc due to mechanical limitations, also side effects of continuous wars ins't properly show, like a "clear" frontline.

Edited November 23, 2021 by ugrakarma.9416

[Tachenon.5270]

Maybe GW2's Tyria is a simulation. The Mystix! And whoever is responsible didn't sweat the small stuff. Or its the tortured dream of a sylvari trapped in an Inquest experiment on another mother tree -- maybe Malyck's tree! -- with a woefully incomplete understanding of the world at large. Or maybe we're just taking it for granted that the humans in GW2 are like humans in the real world, and they actually reproduce by fission, which might explain why so many of them look just alike. Even the kids! Or Sister Brenda stopped along the way to Swamplost Haven and sampled some bad brew.

 

Humans aren't native to Tyria, so maybe there's a bit of a John Carter/Clark Kent thing going on with them in this environment, in regard to aging.

 

Hmm. What do you suppose will happen to sylvari as they grow older?

[Arnox.5128]

4 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Well, there's no evidence to suggest healing magic is capable of reversing the aging of cells.

Uh, what? If healing magic can close up wounds instantly with no blemishes, heal poison, and even cure fear, why would it not be able to cure kitten for example?

EDIT: And why is that word censored?

4 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

And I would very much disagree that only Warhammer tops GW's war focus - there's no war in the asura, sylvari, or norn regions technically.

The asura are duking it out with the Inquest. The sylvari are duking it out with the Nightmare Court. The Norn are duking it out with the Icebrood. Literally every race has their own adversary in violent conflict with them. And there are some races that even have multiple enemies, like humans with the centaurs, White Mantle, and Separatists. Or charr with the Flame Legion and the Ascalonian ghosts. And THEN there's all the other factions that are in conflict with all the races as a whole. Risen (no longer a threat), Branded, Mordrem, Forged, and finally, alternate freaking dimensions in the Mists. So even IF all these conflicts somehow got immediately resolved tomorrow, they would still always be battling with alternate universe versions of themselves.

So yeah, I'd say there's an epic ****ton of war in the Guild Wars universe.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Arnox.5128

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

1 hour ago, Arnox.5128 said:

The asura are duking it out with the Inquest.

Not really. the Inquest have an open recruitment center in Rata Sum. That's not really duking it out in some large scale conflict.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

1 hour ago, Arnox.5128 said:

Uh, what? If healing magic can close up wounds instantly with no blemishes, heal poison, and even cure fear, why would it not be able to cure kitten for example?

EDIT: And why is that word censored?

Not sure what your censored word is, but there's a very huge difference between repairing damage and reversing age, and given we see plenty of old aged people in both games, even among monks, and no direct implication of healing magic reversing age, there's not much reason to believe healing magic can reverse aging.

Not saying it's impossible. Just that we don't have reason to believe such just because there's only one face for female humans that has wrinkles and it's not structed to have varied skin tones and so isn't used outside of a very specific and uncommon model.

1 hour ago, Arnox.5128 said:

The asura are duking it out with the Inquest.

Not at all, the Inquest are a fully legalized group in Rata Sum. Only a small handful "duke it out" with the Inquest.

Quote

The sylvari are duking it out with the Nightmare Court. The Norn are duking it out with the Icebrood.

Same thing minus the legality - Nightmare Court canonically account for only 15% of the sylvari population, and not everyone is affected by them. Same with local risen. And the Sons of Svanir are allowed in Hoelbrak, even if icebrood aren't (well, during Dragon Bash one icebrood shows up in Hoelbrak so I guess them too, if they hold any intelligence).

Quote

Literally every race has their own adversary in violent conflict with them.

Conflicts, yes, but wars? No. There is a wide difference between "the wild regions are dangerous" and "they're at war". The former means that places beyond guarded roadsides and towns are at risk from local threats like wildlife, bandits, and criminals. The latter implies nowhere is safe because villages are being razed and the death tolls are in the thousands.

 

At the start of the game, humans aren't at war with the White Mantle or Separatists. They're dealing with banditry and petty crime. There is a huge difference. Your examples are basically typical criminals and terrorists, not armies or raiders (well, Separatists/Renegades might be categorized similarly as raiders). But at the start of GW2, humans are only at war with centaurs, and charr are only at war with ghosts and Flame Legion. In S3, Kryta is at war with White Mantle too, but that's short lived; same with charr civil war in IBS.

 

These aren't widescale wars that strip societies of their fighting-aged citizens who're forced to go to war. Even the two wars actively going on at the start of the game don't appear to be so deadly as to be reducing the average life expectancy of non-volunteer soldier conscripts.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Narcemus.1348]

Has anyone mentioned that in this game Livia has been noted by dialogue to be an oddity? The dialogue from the PC's who know who Livia is seems to point to surprise that someone could live that long. Or have I missed that conversation?

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

On 11/26/2021 at 1:40 PM, Narcemus.1348 said:

Has anyone mentioned that in this game Livia has been noted by dialogue to be an oddity? The dialogue from the PC's who know who Livia is seems to point to surprise that someone could live that long. Or have I missed that conversation?

They didn't do much with how she extended her lifespan outside of using the Scepter of Orr. Because we don't exactly know the full capabilities of the Scepter, we have no idea how she even managed it to begin with. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Tyria is in a constant state of war when we enter it in GW2. Shaemoor is literally under assault from a centaur  raid when we get there as a human. The elderly wouldn't be taken prisoner, they'd be trampled into the ground by the centaurs.

[Danikat.8537]

On 11/23/2021 at 10:51 AM, Arnox.5128 said:

You know, this explanation really bothers me. Are you implying that the GW2 can't handle rendering old people?

I suspect a big part of the reason we don't see more obviously old people is because of game limitations, but it's nothing to do with rendering, it's down to what the artists spend their time doing.

A lot of the signs of aging mentioned in this topic, like wrinkled skin, liver spots, different body types and posture or walking differently aren't something that can just happen in a game - somehow has to actually design and create them and that takes time. As with everything else it becomes a trade-off - you could assign an artist to design a skin pattern with wrinkles and liver spots and a moddler to make a bunch of eldery body types with unique animations, but while they're doing that they can't work on other things and if the only benefit is making it slightly clearer that these characters are elderly it's probably not worth the effort. Instead we get the examples shown in this thread - characters with wrinkled faces and white hair but using the same bodies and animations as everyone else.

It's the same reason a lot of the enemies or NPCs who aren't part of a playable race look identical (and why enemies in games without a character creator have 1 model per type/role). It's not worth the time and effort required to build a whole bunch of variations and a system to customise (or randomise) them when it doesn't make a big difference to players.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Danikat.8537

[The Greyhawk.9107]

3 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I suspect a big part of the reason we don't see more obviously old people is because of game limitations, but it's nothing to do with rendering, it's down to what the artists spend their time doing.

A lot of the signs of aging mentioned in this topic, like wrinkled skin, liver spots, different body types and posture or walking differently aren't something that can just happen in a game - somehow has to actually design and create them and that takes time. As with everything else it becomes a trade-off - you could assign an artist to design a skin pattern with wrinkles and liver spots and a moddler to make a bunch of eldery body types with unique animations, but while they're doing that they can't work on other things and if the only benefit is making it slightly clearer that these characters are elderly it's probably not worth the effort. Instead we get the examples shown in this thread - characters with wrinkled faces and white hair but using the same bodies and animations as everyone else.

It's the same reason a lot of the enemies or NPCs who aren't part of a playable race look identical (and why enemies in games without a character creator have 1 model per type/role). It's not worth the time and effort required to build a whole bunch of variations and a system to customise (or randomise) them when it doesn't make a big difference to players.

Indubitably.

[Arnox.5128]

9 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I suspect a big part of the reason we don't see more obviously old people is because of game limitations, but it's nothing to do with rendering, it's down to what the artists spend their time doing.

A lot of the signs of aging mentioned in this topic, like wrinkled skin, liver spots, different body types and posture or walking differently aren't something that can just happen in a game - somehow has to actually design and create them and that takes time. As with everything else it becomes a trade-off - you could assign an artist to design a skin pattern with wrinkles and liver spots and a moddler to make a bunch of eldery body types with unique animations, but while they're doing that they can't work on other things and if the only benefit is making it slightly clearer that these characters are elderly it's probably not worth the effort. Instead we get the examples shown in this thread - characters with wrinkled faces and white hair but using the same bodies and animations as everyone else.

It's the same reason a lot of the enemies or NPCs who aren't part of a playable race look identical (and why enemies in games without a character creator have 1 model per type/role). It's not worth the time and effort required to build a whole bunch of variations and a system to customise (or randomise) them when it doesn't make a big difference to players.

Counter-point: GW2 character creation is fairly in-depth. Not the most in-depth character creator I've seen of course, but it offers a fair amount of customization. Things ranging from eye width to accessory color. Despite that, it's hard to create a legitimately old-looking character. An ugly character, sure, but not genuinely old and weathered. How could there be so many character customization options and yet have so little options for old characters?

Of course neither of our points proves anything for sure, but still, the possibility exists.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

35 minutes ago, Arnox.5128 said:

Counter-point: GW2 character creation is fairly in-depth. Not the most in-depth character creator I've seen of course, but it offers a fair amount of customization. Things ranging from eye width to accessory color. Despite that, it's hard to create a legitimately old-looking character. An ugly character, sure, but not genuinely old and weathered. How could there be so many character customization options and yet have so little options for old characters?

Of course neither of our points proves anything for sure, but still, the possibility exists.

This bit about not being able to make "old" looking characters was debated way back when the Open Beta Weekends were occurring and I believe the consensus (read: best guess) was that Anet didn't want the PC to be old.

[Gibson.4036]

There are characters in the game that are clearly supposed to be old, from the story around them, to their voice acting, to sometimes even the name above them. You zoom in, though, and you get ideal, young character face. Clearly this was just a shortcut in the production process. Most of the time we just don’t zoom in that close to notice, and it was decided resources would be better spent elsewhere.

This discussion makes about as much sense as trying to find a lore reason for why the erosion texture on a dome in Vabbi I ran across last night is perfectly symmetrical. 
 

And as a side note, the idea that people in medieval Europe or ancient cultures didn’t live long enough to be old is a misunderstanding of average life expectancy. Huge infant mortality rates lead to average life expectancies like 35, but human lifespan has hovered around 60 to 70 for most of history, with records of 100 year olds even in ancient times.

[Gibson.4036]

6 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

This bit about not being able to make "old" looking characters was debated way back when the Open Beta Weekends were occurring and I believe the consensus (read: best guess) was that Anet didn't want the PC to be old.

Yes. I remember the same conversation about being able to create overweight characters. ANet clearly had a heroic appearance in mind. It’s too much of a reach to read some lore about the entire population from that.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Most of what you see from aging in the real world is commulative damage from exposure to harmful environments and substances. For example, many of the traits people associate with aging such as bad skin are from a lifetime of sun exposure (literally long-term radiation damage), smoking and so on, not from aging.

 

If someone stays inside their whole life, doesn't drink and smoke, and stays well-nourished (e.g taking vitamin D to make up for lack of sun exposure), they age very, very differently, with people still looking like they're 20-30 when they're twice that age and even able perform difficult tasks well into their 80s-90s.

 

We still don't know what the ideal lifespan of a Human is because so few are raised in "perfect" environments, but the number only continues to increase as technology and society improves.

 

That's not even taking into account that this Tyria is a world full of magical healing abilities.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Arnox.5128]

4 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Yes. I remember the same conversation about being able to create overweight characters. ANet clearly had a heroic appearance in mind. It’s too much of a reach to read some lore about the entire population from that.

The character creator is just a piece, not the whole puzzle. And the texture at Vabbi is just a single texture. This is a major world design decision. I get that you're doubtful of this, but let's not pretend like you know the answer more than anyone else here.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

15 hours ago, Arnox.5128 said:

Counter-point: GW2 character creation is fairly in-depth. Not the most in-depth character creator I've seen of course, but it offers a fair amount of customization. Things ranging from eye width to accessory color. Despite that, it's hard to create a legitimately old-looking character. An ugly character, sure, but not genuinely old and weathered. How could there be so many character customization options and yet have so little options for old characters?

Of course neither of our points proves anything for sure, but still, the possibility exists.

Most players don't really want to play an old character, so it'd be a waste to make an old looking face and old looking skin setups.

An old PC also wouldn't really fit any of the personal story narratives, where it's a young and up-and-coming character coming into play.

Slap onto this that 99% of playable-race NPCs use the character creator features for their own diverse appearances, and you have a lack of old looking NPCs. The sole exception is one face for both human genders, and the old female face wasn't even designed to take alternate skin tones so the one or two NPCs that use this face without the specific model designed for it looks really horrendously hideously broken.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Gibson.4036]

6 hours ago, Arnox.5128 said:

The character creator is just a piece, not the whole puzzle. And the texture at Vabbi is just a single texture. This is a major world design decision. I get that you're doubtful of this, but let's not pretend like you know the answer more than anyone else here.

Except for the fact that there are clearly old characters voice acted with age that just happen to have young faces? And no indication at all in the entire game that the devs intended a world with eternal youth?

It’s pretty obvious.

You even wrote in your OP that you might be reading too much into it. That’s where you were 100% right.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[ugrakarma.9416]

On 11/27/2021 at 6:21 PM, Danikat.8537 said:

I suspect a big part of the reason we don't see more obviously old people is because of game limitations, but it's nothing to do with rendering, it's down to what the artists spend their time doing.
 

to explain better i mean is more hard to represent all sort of 'intermediate age' like 40s 50s or teenagers. so due to lack of textures, all ppl seem fall into only child, or generic adult(20~30) or a very elder(more rare).

 

when im creating a new alt, i noticed they try represent aging with some skin texture, or 

and some difference in cheek design, its seems all they can do. the rest is just put some gray hair, and done.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

On 11/26/2021 at 8:40 AM, Narcemus.1348 said:

Has anyone mentioned that in this game Livia has been noted by dialogue to be an oddity? The dialogue from the PC's who know who Livia is seems to point to surprise that someone could live that long. Or have I missed that conversation?

We do know that Livia used the Scepter or Orr to extend her lifespan massively, given she doesn't seem to have significantly aged over the last 250 years. The Scepter, though, is known to be a powerful necromantic artifact (Livia is a skilled necromancer herself).  Extending your lifespan magically is definitely possible, but it's absolutely a rare event.

[Narcemus.1348]

10 hours ago, Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

We do know that Livia used the Scepter or Orr to extend her lifespan massively, given she doesn't seem to have significantly aged over the last 250 years. The Scepter, though, is known to be a powerful necromantic artifact (Livia is a skilled necromancer herself).  Extending your lifespan magically is definitely possible, but it's absolutely a rare event.

 

I get that. My point, within this conversation, was to point out that a long lifespan such as this is obviously not something that is within the realm of normalcy because of the way the PC reacts if they have heard of Livia.