What do Anet actually want us to test this beta?

[Levetty.1279]

No significant changes have been made to Virutoso except the lowering of its PvE damage. What are they actually expecting us to test?

[Salt Mode.3780]

Fact that mightyteapot agreed how strong the unblockable is actually blows my mind. What he doesn't understand is how awkward it is for you to NEED to cast a shatter to get the aegis then for aegis to pop to get a unblockable proc. Most of the time you will need to stand within mid to melee range for things to actually attack you because things that do range will most likely ignore you aegis because of various reasons,

1. They have a better version of unblockable

2. Faster projectiles with MORE subsequent projectiles that are instant and don't require a cast.

3. Able to engage close combat and disengage at will.

4. More fluid rotations

Putting the unblockable on ONE traitline isn't going to make the spec good this is just putting a band aid to the overall flaw design of Virtuoso, and I would hate to say it that the duration is going to get a nerf before the expansion goes live.

I forgot to mention that they increase the ICD from 1 to 3 which means it wont synchronize with the bladeturn refrain. This was already a gimmicky combo and now its even more lackluster.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

Four things mainly:

1. How much blade generation you will get in practice with the top GM trait.

2. How good the new elite skill is, it might actually be decent.

3. The previously bugged trait interactions; specifically, how good are the Inspiration traits and Signet of Ether. Such as Virtuoso top GM + Signet of Ether + Illusionary Inspiration.

4. How much use you can get out of the unblockable from the top GM trait in practice.

The problem with these new changes is that they will probably solidify 111 as the only viable trait choice (112 is the only slightly possible alternative).

(I'm only talking about PvP here).

Edited November 27, 2021 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[mortrialus.3062]

On 11/26/2021 at 11:17 AM, Levetty.1279 said:

No significant changes have been made to Virutoso except the lowering of its PvE damage. What are they actually expecting us to test?

The goal is to see if the Mechanist Golem can solo a virtuoso.

[Leonidrex.5649]

43 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

The goal is to see if the Mechanist Golem can solo a virtuoso.

they should replace dps golem in raid arena with T-posing virtuoso 😄

[Wielder Of Magic.3950]

Not much you can do aside from simply reposting all the feedback that they did not act upon, hoping they will see the light for the next round of changes around launch.

[Obtena.7952]

Hopefully, people don't waste their voice asking Anet to scrap their concept (which they are hihgly unlikely to do at this point) and give good feedback this time. 

Just ask yourself if you are part of the noise or participating in the process.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Leonidrex.5649]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Hopefully, people don't waste their voice asking Anet to scrap their concept (which they are hihgly unlikely to do at this point) and give good feedback this time. 

feedback is the same as nothing changed.
idea is bad
visuals are bloated
gameplay is boring
elite is bland
numbers are low ( used to be high )
class doesn't function

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

I can tell my feedback right now without playing it. 

Its garbage and ANerf should be ashamed of lying in the face of its customers, they didn't read any feedback.

So grow a kittening pair and say outright "your feedback doesn't matter, we'll do it as we want even if it's unplayable trash". 

"we made a range dps on mesmer without any sort of cc, sustain and mobility, and gave tons of mobility to all other new elite specs to be sure no one complains about mesmer anymore because we're too kittening dumb and lazy to actually fix things in a cleaver way". 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[mortrialus.3062]

6 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Hopefully, people don't waste their voice asking Anet to scrap their concept (which they are hihgly unlikely to do at this point) and give good feedback this time. 

Just ask yourself if you are part of the noise or participating in the process.

A massive chunk of the feedback was other classes giving deliberately bad feedback in an open effort to sandbag the class before it comes out. 

This is the feedback Arenanet listened to. 

Tons of mesmers including myself gave good feedback about what the spec needs on its own merits.  Top mesmer players like Misha and Shorts gave their own good feedback.  

Edited November 28, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[Arshay Duskbrow.1306]

I gave Virtuoso another fair try, but it's just...nothing. It really is just "core mesmer but even worse", with hamstrung shatters, no clones to draw aggro/inflict vuln/conditions, and traits that do absolutely nothing. I genuinely can't believe how little is here. On *Mesmer*.

[Magolith.9412]

Points have already been made. I'm just stopping by to give another +1 to virt just being.. bad.

[otto.5684]

On 11/28/2021 at 8:41 AM, Leonidrex.5649 said:

feedback is the same as nothing changed.
idea is bad
visuals are bloated
gameplay is boring
elite is bland
numbers are low ( used to be high )
class doesn't function

You know, that is your opinion right? It has issues, but idea and elite are not one of them.

[mortrialus.3062]

1 hour ago, otto.5684 said:

You know, that is your opinion right? It has issues, but idea and elite are not one of them.

https://youtu.be/TPMtn4zkelc

Yeah ok.

They didn't fix how bugged it is or how it can't handle terrain at all either.

[The Specimen.8973]

3 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

You know, that is your opinion right? It has issues, but idea and elite are not one of them.

The concept is there sure (although it is trying to blend blade throwing, psychokinesis, and music all on one - bit much), but the elite needs either to be replaced or at the very least needs 1 of 2 fixes (the latter being come up with by Kroof (on Youtube/Twitch) and others in her discord)

 

1. Thousand Cuts' projectiles now lock-on and track targets (like Rifle Turret on Engi) so that we no longer have to worry about it being completely wasted as enemies just strafe out of it - to balance I would remove the unblockable and up the damage back to Beta 1's version.

 

2. Thousand Cuts now has it's recharge reduced equal to ½ second per blade expended when you use a Bladesong - resulting in the skill being more forgiving when it fails as you won't have to wait as long until you can use the skill again.

Edited December 1, 2021 by The Specimen.8973

[Obliviscaris.6937]

4 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

You know, that is your opinion right? It has issues, but idea and elite are not one of them.

Your contrarianism isn't just embarassing, it's a waste of precious bandwidth – that could could be saved by not posting at all.

1 hour ago, The Specimen.8973 said:

1. Thousand Cuts' projectiles now lock-on and track targets (like Rifle Turret on Engi) so that we no longer have to worry about it being completely wasted as enemies just strafe out of it - to balance I would remove the unblockable and up the damage back to Beta 1's version.

Fantastic suggestion, but I bolded the part that highlights this issue that Mesmer players have had for over a decade (and I mean decade because it's a relic mindset from Guild Wars 1 days) – why are we willing to accept a trade-off? 

I absolutely accept no trade-offs. No other class is treated in this way.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Obliviscaris.6937
Expanded reasoning.

[otto.5684]

1 hour ago, Obliviscaris.6937 said:

Your contrarianism isn't just embarassing, it's a waste of precious bandwidth – that could could be saved by not posting at all.

Fantastic suggestion, but I bolded the part that highlights this issue that Mesmer players have had for over a decade (and I mean decade because it's a relic mindset from Guild Wars 1 days) – why are we willing to accept a trade-off? 

I absolutely accept no trade-offs. No other class is treated in this way.

Or maybe I dont give a flying kitten about what you think of the elite design? And maybe you dont quote me out of context implying that I think that Virtuso is performing perfectly. It surely is not.

[Lethion.8745]

Our patience.

Jokes asides tweaking blades so they count as summoning an illusion and Psychic Riposte change are bigger than it seems. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Lethion.8745

[Lethion.8745]

On 11/26/2021 at 9:43 PM, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Fact that mightyteapot agreed how strong the unblockable is actually blows my mind. What he doesn't understand is how awkward it is for you to NEED to cast a shatter to get the aegis then for aegis to pop to get a unblockable proc. Most of the time you will need to stand within mid to melee range for things to actually attack you because things that do range will most likely ignore you aegis because of various reasons,

1. They have a better version of unblockable

2. Faster projectiles with MORE subsequent projectiles that are instant and don't require a cast.

3. Able to engage close combat and disengage at will.

4. More fluid rotations

Putting the unblockable on ONE traitline isn't going to make the spec good this is just putting a band aid to the overall flaw design of Virtuoso, and I would hate to say it that the duration is going to get a nerf before the expansion goes live.

I forgot to mention that they increase the ICD from 1 to 3 which means it wont synchronize with the bladeturn refrain. This was already a gimmicky combo and now its even more lackluster.

I like Teapot as a person and content creator but he knows little about PvP balance and even less about Mesmer. He might be still thinking that Virtuoso is a WvW spec smh.  He even said that Virtuoso is perfect, is the best designed spec of EoD and is exactly where it should be.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Lethion.8745

[OriOri.8724]

1 hour ago, Lethion.8745 said:

Our patience.

Jokes asides tweaking blades so they count as summoning an illusion and Psychic Riposte change are bigger than it seems. 

Actually making blades interact with core mesmer skills and traits is a big change yes, and one that should have been done before the first beta honestly. But its ultimately bugfixes, not actual changes to virtuoso. It doesn't address any of the myriad of issues with bladesongs either.

 

If ANet wants virtuoso to be a shatter focused DPS spec, which they claim was the intention behind it in that mightyteapot stream, then they need to improve bladesongs, a lot. Reduce/remove the cast times on them. make F1/F2 not be projectiles at all. Lower the cooldowns on them so that the increased blade generation isn't literally wasted while you wait for bladesongs to come off CD. Actually change the bladesongs to not be just reskins of core shatters, but make them new. There's so much that needs to be done, design wise. But Anet ignores our feedback

[Ombras.2853]

I agree on this last point.

 

I think there is room for improvement tbh, but Bladesongs need a rework.

 

Which doesn’t require extremely difficult skills.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

They fixed the inspiration traits and signet of ether so presumably they want you to test virtuoso, inspiration, and X to see if you have enough survivability.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Daniel Handler.4816

[Puck.3697]

On 11/28/2021 at 7:55 PM, mortrialus.3062 said:

A massive chunk of the feedback was other classes giving deliberately bad feedback in an open effort to sandbag the class before it comes out. 

This is the feedback Arenanet listened to. 

Tons of mesmers including myself gave good feedback about what the spec needs on its own merits.  Top mesmer players like Misha and Shorts gave their own good feedback.  

holy hell Lmfao.... Where does all this positive feedback come from surrounding this proffession xD saying that someone on Guardian forums is saying its fine for Willbender to Not be Optimal.. as the audience of players who dont care about optimal gameplay can still use it xD so who knows...

i do wonder if sandbagging is what we hope is what is happening to refuse the idea people may actually think this. the GW2 community seem one of the worst i've seen regarding this idea of "removing optimal play" and having this "no one cares about being optimal play" becoming a Actual thing.. so they fight against anything that may push the Any proffession towards anything meta.

with such a large community of vocal Players who are completely against as they enjoy to refer to anyone who demands proffession balance "Meta pushers" i wonder if these are actual Mesmer mains who only do open world content and nothing group or pvp wise and seem to believe it can do the very bottom standard of content and any change "threatens them" 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Daniel Handler.4816]

4 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

holy hell Lmfao.... Where does all this positive feedback come from surrounding this proffession xD saying that someone on Guardian forums is saying its fine for Willbender to Not be Optimal.. as the audience of players who dont care about optimal gameplay can still use it xD so who knows...

i do wonder if sandbagging is what we hope is what is happening to refuse the idea people may actually think this. the GW2 community seem one of the worst i've seen regarding this idea of "removing optimal play" and having this "no one cares about being optimal play" becoming a Actual thing.. so they fight against anything that may push the Any proffession towards anything meta.

with such a large community of vocal Players who are completely against as they enjoy to refer to anyone who demands proffession balance "Meta pushers" i wonder if these are actual Mesmer mains who only do open world content and nothing group or pvp wise and seem to believe it can do the very bottom standard of content and any change "threatens them" 

This is such a no true Scotsman. 

The reality of the situation is mesmer is not an easy class and it is balanced based on what the top can achieve. 

What most people think are the tools for optimal play are based on playing in gold or below, and never hitting snow crows benchmarks. Catering to that crowd in PvE is fine, its why the double support staff build exists. But ANET isnt interested in wrecking pvp again with builds that are over the top at higher levels.

Not everyone who wants something balanced is a shill. Some people just don't want something that's stupid broken and just going to get nerfed, or is boring to play. 

Edit:

This is not to say it doesn't have problems. It does. But its not the scum of the earth this forum would make you believe. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Daniel Handler.4816

[Yoci.2481]

But if you want Mesmer to be balanced in PvP and WvW you have to either give it a significant boost or nerf a bunch of other professions.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Yoci.2481
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