Hammer is still terrible

[anbujackson.9564]

Just now, Mattmatt.4962 said:

No it doesnt need anything to compete woth dagger/sword cause it shouldnt even compete with it in the first place.

Hammer should do something new, something ele has not covered with its current weapon pool (and there is quite a lot of hole in ele's weapon kit)

True, weapons competing with each other is bad for build variety.

Maybe on top of the regular hammer 3 effects you get an effect depending on the element you are on when you use the flip over skill? Like earth giving a knockdown, air a leap, water an aoe heal and fire... dunno aoe damage with a fire field. So they dont have to redesign an imo cool effect completely like some already suggested.

[Mattmatt.4962]

Well dont ask me for idea about hammer.

I am in the "complete revamp" team 😅

This weapon should have been ranged, or full condi. There are probably other good weapon topic but thats the 2 that jump to tje mind of any ele main (especially condi kitten)

Edited December 1, 2021 by Mattmatt.4962

[Infusion.7149]

Seeing how the DPS is extremely high (50-55K I believe when in middle of hitbox) in PVE right now due to the orbs maybe earth orb should pulse cripple and then the auto on hammer applies bleeding.
That way you get:

• fiery loop = burn (DPS , +5% outgoing)
• water icy coil = vuln (-5% incoming condition damage)
• air crescent wind = weakness (which is defensive since you don't have damage mitigation on air , orb gives crit chance currently)
• earth rocky loop = cripple (which stacks with chill but works with setups not constantly in water  , -5% incoming strike damage)

The orb still is outputting too much power damage IMO which makes variance a large problem. As per my initial assessment , so long as orbs do damage while orbiting there will always be a large discrepancy between target size.

Making earth orb (rocky loop) cripple would partially solve sticking to a target as well.

[Stallic.2397]

15 minutes ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

True, weapons competing with each other is bad for build variety.

Maybe on top of the regular hammer 3 effects you get an effect depending on the element you are on when you use the flip over skill? Like earth giving a knockdown, air a leap, water an aoe heal and fire... dunno aoe damage with a fire field. So they dont have to redesign an imo cool effect completely like some already suggested.

 

I would go with this idea. I've heard more than once that hammer orbs should just activate on attunement swap. Turn hammer 3 skills into leaps, finishers or evades. Cause right now, hammer 3's are just 4 separate buff activations. Buttons existing just to exist. 

 

But combining orb activation with an actual skill would be great too. Then have the flip over (grand finale) afterwards. It's a strong range skill to use whenever needed. 

 

Even if done that way. Grand finale still needs a shorter cooldown and all orbs need longer duration

[Shiyo.3578]

I didn't test it thoroughly, but is earth4 hammer block really removed the second that it stops blocking and doesn't work like gsword4 on Ranger? The barrier is also a pathetic ~1.2k, really?

This weapon doesn't offer enough survivability to fill the bruiser role. It's only instant reliable CC ALSO cc's you(wtf?), it has a weird mix of ranged AOE targeted attacks that are slow and clunky on a weapon that's meant to be in the middle of things and it offers nearly non-existent sustain options. The 3 skill in every attunement feels absolutely trash to use in any type of pvp/wvw scenario. Haven't tested in PvE but I can't see it being more fun or satisfying than Weaver sword.

D/D base ele is a better bruiser for pvp. Hammer is terrible at everything(except PvE DPS number wise). I don't understand why this weapon lacks EVERYTHING:

• Non-existent sustain. You shouldn't have to HIT a target to gain HP on water 4, that doesn't work out due to blocks/evades/blinds/etc well. It should always heal no matter what.
• Water5 shouldn't require hitting targets to cleanse you. Again, this is doesn't work out due to blocks/evades/blinds/etc and should ALWAYS cleanse no matter what.
• Terrible block/mitigation CD
• No access to protection at all? 
• No auras AT ALL?
• Limited finishers
• Limited CC that also self CC's because idk 
• No mobility

Edited December 1, 2021 by Shiyo.3578

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

10 minutes ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

I didn't test it thoroughly, but is earth4 hammer block really removed the second that it stops blocking and doesn't work like gsword4 on Ranger? The barrier is also a pathetic ~1.2k, really?

This weapon doesn't offer enough survivability to fill the bruiser role. It's only instant reliable CC ALSO cc's you(wtf?), it has a weird mix of ranged AOE targeted attacks that are slow and clunky on a weapon that's meant to be in the middle of things and it offers nearly non-existent sustain options. The 3 skill in every attunement feels absolutely trash to use in any type of pvp/wvw scenario. Haven't tested in PvE but I can't see it being more fun or satisfying than Weaver sword.

D/D base ele is a better bruiser for pvp. Hammer is terrible at everything(except PvE DPS number wise). I don't understand why this weapon lacks EVERYTHING:

• Non-existent sustain. You shouldn't have to HIT a target to gain HP on water 4, that doesn't work out due to blocks/evades/blinds/etc well. It should always heal no matter what.
• Water5 shouldn't require hitting targets to cleanse you. Again, this is doesn't work out due to blocks/evades/blinds/etc and should ALWAYS cleanse no matter what.
• Terrible block/mitigation CD
• No access to protection at all? 
• No auras AT ALL?
• Limited finishers
• Limited CC that also self CC's because idk 
• No mobility

The worst thing is: A-net probably will not change a kitten beside few numbers here and there, because PvE golem benchmarking crowd is happy with hammer, sphere, traits and utilities.
That spec is pretty much dead in PvP and WvW and barely usable in PvE because the only enemies you meet there are AI mobs.

[Shiyo.3578]

13 hours ago, The Fear.3865 said:

I manage to make a correct bruiser build in pvp, and it's fun. 

There's some minor modifications needed, like the 1.5 sphere CD on swap and energy management which should not rely on hit. 

Hammer skill 3 needs to last longer, it's interesting but you can almost never use grand finale with the 4 elements up. But with 2 or 3 is pretty easy. 

Fire hits really hard, earth is the perfect anti projectile kit, water heals like crazy. 

It can struggle a bit against some condi builds. 

It's really hard to chase ennemies. 

Are you playing a different version of GW2 than I am?

[The Great Al.2546]

21 minutes ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

I didn't test it thoroughly, but is earth4 hammer block really removed the second that it stops blocking and doesn't work like gsword4 on Ranger? The barrier is also a pathetic ~1.2k, really?

This weapon doesn't offer enough survivability to fill the bruiser role. It's only instant reliable CC ALSO cc's you(wtf?), it has a weird mix of ranged AOE targeted attacks that are slow and clunky on a weapon that's meant to be in the middle of things and it offers nearly non-existent sustain options. The 3 skill in every attunement feels absolutely trash to use in any type of pvp/wvw scenario. Haven't tested in PvE but I can't see it being more fun or satisfying than Weaver sword.

D/D base ele is a better bruiser for pvp. Hammer is terrible at everything(except PvE DPS number wise). I don't understand why this weapon lacks EVERYTHING:

• Non-existent sustain. You shouldn't have to HIT a target to gain HP on water 4, that doesn't work out due to blocks/evades/blinds/etc well. It should always heal no matter what.
• Water5 shouldn't require hitting targets to cleanse you. Again, this is doesn't work out due to blocks/evades/blinds/etc and should ALWAYS cleanse no matter what.
• Terrible block/mitigation CD
• No access to protection at all? 
• No auras AT ALL?
• Limited finishers
• Limited CC that also self CC's because idk 
• No mobility

 

if you want protection, you have to make sure you combo for auras, and take earth for protection on aura. I kind of hate the rest of the earth trait line but it's unavoidable. 

[Shiyo.3578]

1 minute ago, The Great Al.2546 said:

 

if you want protection, you have to make sure you combo for auras, and take earth for protection on aura. I kind of hate the rest of the earth trait line but it's unavoidable. 

Yeah I know that much, using jade spheres and blasting/leaping in them is super obnoxious. Earth trait line sucks and being forced into it for prot sucks when tempest gets 40% prot so easily ;/

[The Great Al.2546]

2 minutes ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

Yeah I know that much, using jade spheres and blasting/leaping in them is super obnoxious. Earth trait line sucks and being forced into it for prot sucks when tempest gets 40% prot so easily ;/

 

Yeah, that's what I'm struggling with. If I wanted to be an Auramancer I would've stuck with Tempest.

 

Earth line would've been fine if they hadn't taken away 'aura on signet proc', that was the OG auramancer back in the day. I don't understand why there are so many different ways to be an auramancer in this game.

 

What they need to do is turn the 2% damage reduction on aura into a 10%, so you don't need to take protection on aura. 2% is ridiculous as it stands.

[Zephyrus.9680]

Yea I don't think anything else needs to be said from the first beta on this. They buffed like 3 skills which doesn't change any of the issues. No sustain, no mobility, no defensive capability, basically no range. What is the point? In pvp there is none.

[Shiyo.3578]

20 minutes ago, Zephyrus.9680 said:

Yea I don't think anything else needs to be said from the first beta on this. They buffed like 3 skills which doesn't change any of the issues. No sustain, no mobility, no defensive capability, basically no range. What is the point? In pvp there is none.

PvE only spec when Ele has barely existed in the PvP meta since POF release and consistently had decent PvE specs. Very out of touch devs.

[Tarragon.4302]

It 100% should not exist in the first place. They made a support tank spec for ele when theres already tempest. It feels like everything was just all leftover skills and the orb mechanic kills any sense of fluidity by needing to instantly swap to a new attunement. Anet didn't listen to the first wave of feedback so I wouldnt hold my breath for any meaningful changes to come to the weapon. After all why listen to criticism when you can just listen to all the white knights killing the game

[Stallic.2397]

Put hammer 3 orbs into attunement slot. Like how tempest storms work. 

 

Add actual utility skills to hammer 3.

[scerevisiae.1972]

IMO just remove the #3 skills completely and replace with new skills that address hammer shortcomings -- crap damage vs anything not a stationary golem, crap AOE, crap range, crap mobility, weak sustain.

Maybe move the orbs to an automatic on-attunement effect - attune to fire, get the fire orb. Though I'd prefer just remove them and focus on delivering a real 600-range caster, not a worse version of sword/dagger. 

 

[Einlanzer.1627]

It just needs to be totally reworked into something that feels more appropriate for elementalist.

I'm really not sure how they could have gone so badly wrong with this spec.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

10 minutes ago, Einlanzer.1627 said:

It just needs to be totally reworked into something that feels more appropriate for elementalist.

I'm really not sure how they could have gone so badly wrong with this spec.

Probably same way as with Tempest, just remembered that GW2 have class called Elementalist few months before release and they just slapped leftovers on it and called it Catalyst.

[SkinnyT.5382]

I think having all skills at the same range *cough* 600*cough* would vastly improve it.

[ClickToKill.8473]

On 12/1/2021 at 4:29 PM, Shiyo.3578 said:

D/D base ele is a better bruiser for pvp. Hammer is terrible at everything(except PvE DPS number wise). I don't understand why this weapon lacks EVERYTHING:

 

• Limited finishers
•  

Hammer does have access to all the finishers available in guild wars 2.  You have Blasts Fire 5, Air 5, and Earth 5.  Whirl on Water 5.  Leap on Water 4.  And Grand Finale is a Physical Projectile at 100%.  No other Elementalist weapon has that many finishers. (as they usually have fields in these slots.)

 

 

[Kain Francois.4328]

I'm actually enjoying Hammer very much.

It's my personal opinion that, while I disagree with implementation of Hammer 3, it's honestly not as hard to use as some posters are saying. You just... press 3 while swapping through your damage rotation (Rolling your face all over the keyboard, pressing everything off CD except Air 4 and Earth 4....). That's it. That's what people are complaining about? Wow...

[Ace.1784]

 

2 minutes ago, Kain Francois.4328 said:

I'm actually enjoying Hammer very much.

It's my personal opinion that, while I disagree with implementation of Hammer 3, it's honestly not as hard to use as some posters are saying. You just... press 3 while swapping through your damage rotation (Rolling your face all over the keyboard, pressing everything off CD except Air 4 and Earth 4....). That's it. That's what people are complaining about? Wow...

 

You sometimes do want Air 4 though for the CC, but I agree. I did not find the orb mechanic difficult. I've suggested it somewhere else but will do it here as well.

1. Practice the hammer without worry about the orbs. Once you get that down, the orbs have no cast time, so it's pretty easy to implement them into your rotation.
2. If you start your first orb before you leave the attunement, that gives you more time in your next attunement.

[scerevisiae.1972]

4 hours ago, SkinnyT.5382 said:

I think having all skills at the same range *cough* 600*cough* would vastly improve it.

I'm doubtful 600 range caster can really work but it would at least be a good start to make the #5s and water/earth autoattacks 600 range.

 

Kinda feels like there was a missed opportunity with catalyst hammer to have a lot of the kit based around 600 range cone AOEs. The absolte last thing Ele needed was another melee weapon.

 

As it is, current hammer is literally the worst possible outcome - weird melee/600 range split, terrible in WVW but good on stationary golems so they prob won't bother changing it.

 

I'm so angry and disappointed I've lost my will to play.

Edited December 6, 2021 by scerevisiae.1972

[Stand The Wall.6987]

the hammer orbs are one of the laziest design decisions i've seen from anet. someone really sat there and thought "hmm yeah lets make 4 skills on an ele (who only has 1 weapon) weapon all do the same thing, a passive fire and forget mechanic".

[Kain Francois.4328]

On 12/6/2021 at 9:34 PM, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

the hammer orbs are one of the laziest design decisions i've seen from anet. someone really sat there and thought "hmm yeah lets make 4 skills on an ele (who only has 1 weapon) weapon all do the same thing, a passive fire and forget mechanic".

You're only looking at it superficially, which is a big disrespect to the design.

It's a thoughtful reward for cycling through attunements, and then using 4x Projectile Finishers to proc Catalyst traits. You can also launch the projectiles early, which may favor some situations.

Now, I personally disagree with that direction, but the skill is by no means "lazy", nor' is it hard to use either.

[Shadowflare.2759]

On 12/8/2021 at 6:41 AM, Kain Francois.4328 said:

You're only looking at it superficially, which is a big disrespect to the design.

It's a thoughtful reward for cycling through attunements, and then using 4x Projectile Finishers to proc Catalyst traits. You can also launch the projectiles early, which may favor some situations.

Now, I personally disagree with that direction, but the skill is by no means "lazy", nor' is it hard to use either.

Hammer 3 is absolutely lazy design.

Instead of giving us 4 unique skills that each can help with the flow of skills either within a single attunement or between attunements, they gave us 4 skills that are 90% the same as each other: a boring buff toggle for the first cast, and a projectile finisher(s) for the second cast. They hardly provide any meaningful utility. Either the initial cast of the skills or the grand finale skill needs to be changed to be unique for each attunement, something like fire 3 "gives fire orb and dash a short distance", because as it stands the 3 skills are just wasted potential.

And on top of that, the ironic thing about this skill is that it probably is way more difficult for the devs to implement, and yet you can already see that it will be a balancing nightmare since in some situations it will outperform, while in others, it's practically useless.