If anyone at ANet is reading these forums...

[Arnox.5128]

This thread is for you. I haven't been posting on these forums all that much, but every single time I do, there has been unrestrained negativity. I'm not going to lie, it's worn me down. But this thread isn't about me. Instead, it's a personal appeal from me. A shot in the dark. And what I'm trying to say here is that this forum community's negative-as-hell opinions should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

When Guild Wars 2 was first released, it was about taking chances and pushing the boundaries of the MMO genre. OG ArenaNet tossed out a ton of MMORPG conventions when they made this game. It was bold. It was innovative. It was exciting. And while GW2 didn't launch perfect at all, it was a great start and laid all the groundwork for the future. If GW2 had not taken the risks that it did, it would have collapsed long ago just like so many other MMOs before it. But because of both tight design and a willingness to ask, "Why not," Guild Wars 2 not only succeeded but succeeded with flying colors.

Now, this is NOT to say that just anything can be added to the game and everything will turn out fine. I, perhaps more than most anyone else, understand that some things can have negative effects both possibly short term and/or long-term. But that's why I emphasized not just the ability to push convention, but tight design as well. Making MMOs is incredibly hard. No doubt about it. But as a wise old lady once said, "Apathy is death."

That is all.

[SeTect.5918]

1 hour ago, Arnox.5128 said:

This thread is for you. I haven't been posting on these forums all that much, but every single time I do, there has been unrestrained negativity. I'm not going to lie, it's worn me down. But this thread isn't about me. Instead, it's a personal appeal from me. A shot in the dark. And what I'm trying to say here is that this forum community's negative-as-hell opinions should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

The thing is that people can like/dislike whatever they want and its really not a problem. 

If you suggest something, you should always look what problems it could cause. 

For example your post here: 

I dont even wanna be Unfriendly... but I mean imo its obvious that this shouldn't be ingame but it seems that you just not have thought about any problems that could appear. 

 

I also get negative replies often. Its not that they r unfriendly, its just that they sometimes dont like your suggestion or what you said. Its more like "first think - then speak". 

I mean look at my profile, you can see my comments there, I also get confused emotes bc people just disagree or maybe my english is bad, idk. But fact is that i did something wrong then and then you have to find out what u did wrong and making it better next time. 

But something like this wont make it better:

I mean with comments like this you will obviously receive negativity. 

 

This actually explained it very well in a short comment:

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by SeTect.5918

[Omega.6801]

Have a (you) my friend. Feel free to screenshot it, should you ever be in need of support. Also I can write some things that you might want to read. They're not the truth, in a sense that they reflect my actual thoughts and opinions, you know, forum discusion stuff. But if you're here to get some confirmation sure, screenshot the next few sentences as well, they're all yours whenever you need them...

"Wow, what a great suggestion! I can't believe this isn't in the game already. You should get paid by the devs m8, you're just the bestest at sugestioning there has ever been. How can other sugestioners even compete. It's ridiculous how your sugestion hasn't made you millions of dollars at this point, given how good it is. So awesome, can't wait for the devs to implement this feature. This will surely save the game. Thank God we have players like yourself who, with their insight and dedication, know exactly what this game needs. Thanks m8, you're an inspiration, a person to look up to and a pillar of the communty."

You can't put something up for discusion, i.e. posting it in a thread, and think that you will only get the applause. If you put something, anything out to the public, there will be critizism. There will be people who disagree. That's a good and healthy thing actually because most ideas need refining from their original draft to make it into a usable form. But as I see it, and that's not just you, that's a lot of digital natives who were raised in safe spaces and echo chambers, you are not here to actually discuss your ideas. You want to put them out there and get praised for them. I know, I'm not the one with the constructive critizism, that's not my thing, but in your thread about temporary character slots, there is discusion. There are people who provide you with arguments on what would need to be changed, should your idea make it to the game. Sometimes, there are so many things that would need to change, that an idea just simply isn't fit for this game. Now you can take the critizism, the constructive things, and improve on your design or you can shut down discusion by basicaly saying "you just don't know how truly awesome my idea is and you're hating". One of the two will improve not just your ideas but also your skills in terms of having ideas, the other will keep you stuck exactly where you are right now  because why change what is "obviously an awesome idea, just like mounts, and the haters are just hating..."

[kharmin.7683]

27 minutes ago, lokh.2695 said:

If you put something, anything out to the public, there will be critizism. There will be people who disagree. That's a good and healthy thing actually because most ideas need refining from their original draft to make it into a usable form.

+1

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

The forum-community does not resemble an average group of humans. In order to write on the forums, a person needs courage and a certain level of motivation. The people you meet here are capable and willing to speak about their personal opinions on various topics, mostly aware that they are observed and judged by others.

Everyone deals with this atmosphere in their own way. Some have thicker skin, others use elements like irony and sarcasm. A few utilize memes and videos and a sad exception tends to make discussions personal and fight their opponents, rather than their arguments. To each, their own.

Those who believe they have found the undeniable TRUTH often assume that the other forum-participants are dumb as sheep. Behind every name, you find a human being with an active GW2 account, ingame experience and knowledge. Everyone has their own level and preferences, which makes every discussion interesting and challenging. Even if you deal with the same people over and over, you still learn something new. About the other participants, about yourself, about the game - but only, if you allow yourself to recognize it. Some people just come here to vent, or mistake the board for the official complaint-counter. 

Yet the forums are still a great place to make suggestions and requests. They will definitely notice it. But they almost never react to our stuff directly. Sometimes they patch something a player suggested, or use the idea and the provided information to develop something new. Depending on your level of awareness, you can notice such occurrences yourself. Some people brag about it, but most of us are just enjoying such moment silently. If the addition gets accepted by the community, it was a great success. If not, it was still worth a try and may inspire future content development. 

-

Regarding the reactions and quotes and sub-discussions, the derailing into other topics and heated conversations. Most of this has no impact. I'm around the forums for some time now and have seen a lot of suggestions, ideas, criticism and rants. If a thought is inspiring, it will find its way into the game. Some suggestions received devastating feedback from the forum-community, yet were tested and even implemented in the end. 

If you have an idea or want to talk about something you like or dislike in the game, just do it. The discussions can progress and develop the idea into something greater or derail into chaos, but that is just optional. If you do not feel about discussing your suggestion, simply do not. 

[Beast Sos.1457]

The hardcore gamers(which most of the forum is filled with) are very passionate about what they play that it becomes a fault. Posting on these forums, unless a universal complaint, you're mostly going to get kitten talked. This applies to most games. Just say your piece and thats all that matters. If someone has a constructive reply then reply back. If not then ignore them. The only issue that can come from this is if Anet thinks that the mass opinion on the forums translates to mass appeal of the actual Gw2 community. 

[Mell.4873]

18 hours ago, Arnox.5128 said:

This thread is for you. I haven't been posting on these forums all that much, but every single time I do, there has been unrestrained negativity. I'm not going to lie, it's worn me down. But this thread isn't about me. Instead, it's a personal appeal from me. A shot in the dark. And what I'm trying to say here is that this forum community's negative-as-hell opinions should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

When Guild Wars 2 was first released, it was about taking chances and pushing the boundaries of the MMO genre. OG ArenaNet tossed out a ton of MMORPG conventions when they made this game. It was bold. It was innovative. It was exciting. And while GW2 didn't launch perfect at all, it was a great start and laid all the groundwork for the future. If GW2 had not taken the risks that it did, it would have collapsed long ago just like so many other MMOs before it. But because of both tight design and a willingness to ask, "Why not," Guild Wars 2 not only succeeded but succeeded with flying colors.

Now, this is NOT to say that just anything can be added to the game and everything will turn out fine. I, perhaps more than most anyone else, understand that some things can have negative effects both possibly short term and/or long-term. But that's why I emphasized not just the ability to push convention, but tight design as well. Making MMOs is incredibly hard. No doubt about it. But as a wise old lady once said, "Apathy is death."

That is all.

My gosh you are 9000% right, I post one thread about how I enjoy playing the new Virtuoso and get comments like, "Yeah okay ANet employee" and I'm the problem with the game. 

[Mell.4873]

17 hours ago, lokh.2695 said:

Have a (you) my friend. Feel free to screenshot it, should you ever be in need of support. Also I can write some things that you might want to read. They're not the truth, in a sense that they reflect my actual thoughts and opinions, you know, forum discusion stuff. But if you're here to get some confirmation sure, screenshot the next few sentences as well, they're all yours whenever you need them...

"Wow, what a great suggestion! I can't believe this isn't in the game already. You should get paid by the devs m8, you're just the bestest at sugestioning there has ever been. How can other sugestioners even compete. It's ridiculous how your sugestion hasn't made you millions of dollars at this point, given how good it is. So awesome, can't wait for the devs to implement this feature. This will surely save the game. Thank God we have players like yourself who, with their insight and dedication, know exactly what this game needs. Thanks m8, you're an inspiration, a person to look up to and a pillar of the communty."

You can't put something up for discusion, i.e. posting it in a thread, and think that you will only get the applause. If you put something, anything out to the public, there will be critizism. There will be people who disagree. That's a good and healthy thing actually because most ideas need refining from their original draft to make it into a usable form. But as I see it, and that's not just you, that's a lot of digital natives who were raised in safe spaces and echo chambers, you are not here to actually discuss your ideas. You want to put them out there and get praised for them. I know, I'm not the one with the constructive critizism, that's not my thing, but in your thread about temporary character slots, there is discusion. There are people who provide you with arguments on what would need to be changed, should your idea make it to the game. Sometimes, there are so many things that would need to change, that an idea just simply isn't fit for this game. Now you can take the critizism, the constructive things, and improve on your design or you can shut down discusion by basicaly saying "you just don't know how truly awesome my idea is and you're hating". One of the two will improve not just your ideas but also your skills in terms of having ideas, the other will keep you stuck exactly where you are right now  because why change what is "obviously an awesome idea, just like mounts, and the haters are just hating..."

I will say this does not really happen on reddit unless you call for nerfs.

To add to this I have seen arguments where both sides get thumbs up on reddit here it's a dog pile and only one side gets love hearts

Edited December 2, 2021 by Mell.4873

[Handsel.2891]

The last idea you had was criticised from multiple angles and deservedly so: it was a bad idea. I think the first mistake you made was that you created that post in the belief that it was the next best thing after sliced bread and that you deserved medals for it. Well, any idea coming from any person, be it the smartest on the planet, even, has to stand the test of scrutiny before it is deemed valuable. Yours didn't and you took it personally and went on a rampage. That was your second mistake.

And now you are trying to place the burden of responsibility on ANet because it's somehow their fault you had a bad idea?

[phokus.8934]

3 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I will say this does not really happen on reddit unless you call for nerfs.

To add to this I have seen arguments where both sides get thumbs up on reddit here it's a dog pile and only one side gets love hearts

Your bias is blinding.  Reddit is the absolute worst.  If you criticize the game or go against that echo chamber you get downvoted into oblivion.

[Omega.6801]

5 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I will say this does not really happen on reddit unless you call for nerfs.

To add to this I have seen arguments where both sides get thumbs up on reddit here it's a dog pile and only one side gets love hearts

There are no love hearts here.

[Mell.4873]

8 hours ago, phokus.8934 said:

Your bias is blinding.  Reddit is the absolute worst.  If you criticize the game or go against that echo chamber you get downvoted into oblivion.

Hmm yeah but atleast it's better than this forum where the opposite is true, if you praise Arena Net then you get puzzled and laugh emotes. 

[Mell.4873]

7 hours ago, lokh.2695 said:

There are no love hearts here.

Well there called likes but the image is a love heart so meh

[unsung.2938]

As a Guild Wars 1 veteran, all they really had to do was bring GW1 mechanics into GW2 and they would have had a top hit. The things that ruined my enjoyment of GW2 is the weapon skills, because of the fact it take so many slot from your overall skill bars. GW1 had 8 skill bars, but they were all actual skills that you can equip/unequip, and wasn't tie to your weapon of choice. Why fix what wasn't broken? 

 

This is a problem because weapons skills are just boring and if you find a very good weapon, you are force to watch that same boring animation over and over again. Why do I have to choose a good weapon vs boring animation? Eventually it just worn out on me. I still love GW2 for what it is, although it fell short of GW1 for me. GW2 would be more enjoyable if I was new to the series as previous expectation would not have existed.

[Vayne.8563]

2 hours ago, unsung.2938 said:

As a Guild Wars 1 veteran, all they really had to do was bring GW1 mechanics into GW2 and they would have had a top hit. The things that ruined my enjoyment of GW2 is the weapon skills, because of the fact it take so many slot from your overall skill bars. GW1 had 8 skill bars, but they were all actual skills that you can equip/unequip, and wasn't tie to your weapon of choice. Why fix what wasn't broken? 

 

This is a problem because weapons skills are just boring and if you find a very good weapon, you are force to watch that same boring animation over and over again. Why do I have to choose a good weapon vs boring animation? Eventually it just worn out on me. I still love GW2 for what it is, although it fell short of GW1 for me. GW2 would be more enjoyable if I was new to the series as previous expectation would not have existed.

It was broken. It simply wasn't broken for you.  Guild Wars 1 never attained the popularity of Guild Wars 2 and part of the reason for that is that people didn't know how to make builds, didn't go and look up builds, they'd throw skills on their skill bar with no rhyme or reason, not get anywhere in the game and leave. I've seen it happen countless times.

 

I loved the Guild Wars 1 skill system but it wasn't for everyone and it certainly wasn't main stream. It was too hard for a lot of people and most people even now don't go and look up builds. Only a small percentage of the playerbase researches games online. By attaching skills to weapons, Anet can assure at least some semblance of a build exists. That's why there's a dedicated healing slot as well, because otherwise people would take 10 dps skills and be dead all the time. Sometimes, you have to dumb a game down to make it more popular.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

4 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

It was broken. It simply wasn't broken for you.  Guild Wars 1 never attained the popularity of Guild Wars 2 and part of the reason for that is that people didn't know how to make builds, didn't go and look up builds, they'd throw skills on their skill bar with no rhyme or reason, not get anywhere in the game and leave. I've seen it happen countless times.

 

I loved the Guild Wars 1 skill system but it wasn't for everyone and it certainly wasn't main stream. It was too hard for a lot of people and most people even now don't go and look up builds. Only a small percentage of the playerbase researches games online. By attaching skills to weapons, Anet can assure at least some semblance of a build exists. That's why there's a dedicated healing slot as well, because otherwise people would take 10 dps skills and be dead all the time. Sometimes, you have to dumb a game down to make it more popular.

Sadly true, while I knew enough to not go "full dps" and similar mistakes I was still crap at making builds.  Maybe it would have been nice to have a sort of hybrid of the two systems, where each weapon for each profession would have a small pool of skills to choose from beyond the fixed set the use now, but obviously there are numerous complications that would arise from that, not the least of which would be balancing.

I also think that Unsung has a little bit of rose colored glasses going with the alleged greater variety of animations, particularly in regards to attack skills.  There are a LOT of reused animations in GW1 with actual skill animations and the animations of the characters themselves.  This is something that I think GW2 does do better, even if it is achieved in part by having few skills.

 

[Hantu.2815]

On 12/1/2021 at 8:51 AM, Arnox.5128 said:

And what I'm trying to say here is that this forum community's negative-as-hell opinions should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

I 100% agree with you. The GW2 gaming community is the BEST community of gamers from any games out there. They are welcoming, warm, willing to help and teach. It is very rare to have such a beautiful community in a video game that is free to access (core Tyria anyways).  We need to cherish it. 

 

The FORUM community however is a very small and very loud minority. These players are willing to take huge chunks of their free time to write extensive essays and reply to essays with other essays, all about some armor skin or a mount feature.  I have played many games but haven't seen such polar opposites between the game community and forum community.  To add, anyone stepping in will be chastised unless they are posting criticism. 

 

I mean, have you seen the EoD feedback threads? The expack isnt out yet, all we have seen are previews from the devs that showcase a small portion of content. And yet threads after threads about expectations that were destroyted, player trust betrayed, lack of new features etc. The game isn't tested by players yet and the reviews are already in!

I don't post much at all, i usually browse. I took this time because I feel you, what you are feeling is why I don't bother outside of my own communities.  It isn't you, its something about these boards that turns people into what GW2 community is not and has not been since the days of GW1 beta.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Hantu.2815

[Ashantara.8731]

On 12/1/2021 at 2:51 PM, Arnox.5128 said:

Now, this is NOT to say that just anything can be added to the game and everything will turn out fine.

The LWS1 fiasco?
The embarrasment of the Shining Blade initiation ritual?
The grotesque combination of Balthazar + Omadd's Machine?
The absolute disastrous Icebrood Saga closure of Jormag vs Primordus?
The hassle with Legendary Gear not memorizing previous stats nor skins upon weapon change?

You are right, not everything turns out fine in GW2 - so criticism is warranted, no? 😉

Edited March 10, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[Teratus.2859]

Don't underestimate the significance of the game not having mandatory subfees either.

A lot of Gw2's playerbase and Gw1's playerbase for that matter.. possibly even the vast majority of them would not be here today if these games had a mandatory subfee.

Guildwars has to be one of the best value for money franchises i've ever seen, especially in the MMO market.
Specially when you factor in the Free2Play element now too.

That no monthly fees stance combined with pretty much the entire core game being F2P is one hell of an enticement to make people want to at least try this game.

[Teratus.2859]

On 12/2/2021 at 10:23 AM, Mell.4873 said:

My gosh you are 9000% right, I post one thread about how I enjoy playing the new Virtuoso and get comments like, "Yeah okay ANet employee" and I'm the problem with the game. 

Lol I don't see what people hate so much about that spec.

I'm also in the camp that is looking forward to the spec.
I plan on making a blade dancer themed build for it that focuses on duel swords mostly.
I made a Sword focused Mesmer a good while ago but never got to far into buildcrafting with it, this new spec kinda revived that interest ^^

[TwiceDead.1963]

19 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Hmm yeah but atleast it's better than this forum where the opposite is true, if you praise Arena Net then you get puzzled and laugh emotes. 

That's blatantly not the case. It depends on what you praise. People universally love the Mounts, the legendary armory, and some even praise various skins released in the Gemstore with little to no backlash. These are just some examples but you do see praise popping up and people usually chime in with "YEAH MATE".

For obvious reasons, it's going to be a lot more contentious around here during the expansion pre-release window though, especially for class discussions because the status quo is going through a major shake-up. This is normal for everything going through major changes.

 

But to be fair, since their inception Forum Boards has always demanded you grow a bit of a skin. Otherwise you can't separate the insults from the arguments and get back on track, and if you have shown you can do that people will usually lay off the insults and actually argue your ideas. Which is healthy. There is a method to the madness, like most things.

This just comes with the territory, at least until 'negative' reception to anything becomes outlawed and widespread censorship the norm.

Unrelated, but Reddit is a cesspit.

 

[Hantu.2815]

2 minutes ago, TwiceDead.1963 said:

People universally love the Mounts,

This makes me giggle. I remember the days when simply mentioning any mount system ever would get everyone bent out of shape with anger. Had Anet listened to the forum community we would not have any mounts at all. This is just to show that the feedback from forum players should be taken with a pound bag of salt.

[TwiceDead.1963]

13 minutes ago, Hantu.2815 said:

This makes me giggle. I remember the days when simply mentioning any mount system ever would get everyone bent out of shape with anger. Had Anet listened to the forum community we would not have any mounts at all. This is just to show that the feedback from forum players should be taken with a pound bag of salt.

I remember that too. Was funny times, but that's the forums for you.

Don't agree with the feedback portion though. Many of the people around here really know the inner-workings of the games mechanics and they are pretty knowledgeable about the games various aspects in general, so I think dismissing their feedback just because they are on the forum is shallow.

Read their essays then make up your mind, that's my take. Revolutionary stance to have on a forum I know, but hey I am pretty amazing.

Edited December 3, 2021 by TwiceDead.1963
eyyy

[kharmin.7683]

19 minutes ago, Hantu.2815 said:

This makes me giggle. I remember the days when simply mentioning any mount system ever would get everyone bent out of shape with anger. Had Anet listened to the forum community we would not have any mounts at all. This is just to show that the feedback from forum players should be taken with a pound bag of salt.

Had Anet showcased their intentions with the mounts, I believe that the negativity would have been considerably less.  Until they were released, though, I believe that most here didn't want mounts because of how mounts are implemented in other games which wouldn't add any intrinsic value in GW2.  Resources were thought to be better spent elsewhere when mounts weren't needed.

[Hantu.2815]

28 minutes ago, TwiceDead.1963 said:

Read their essays then make up your mind, that's my take. Revolutionary stance to have on a forum I know, but hey I am pretty amazing.

I would hate to see Anet allocating the amount of resources needed to read all those essays that dissect so many game details, that money should be used elsewhere.  These essays that split hairs cause actual constructive feedback to be lost in the haystack. So instead as a compromise we are left with the right amount of forum resources having to cherry pick feedback threads that seem to have potential for useful feedback.