No Equity in Skill Floor

[Crab Fear.1624]

Some classes, and this is sometimes only temporary, but some classes have a really low skill floor, and yet, they can go all the way to even rank one, even winning mats.

The skill ceiling for these same classes, is in a way that floor is 0 and ceiling is infinity (figure of speech).

What do you think happens?

I think, and I SAID THINK, that this is one of the most prevalent driving motivations for players to choose a class.

Without saying a single class, think of one in your head, that you know fits the above description.

Then, try to imagine how often or how rarely you see that class.

I have a couple, maybe  a few in my mind.

When I, (ME, MYSELF), imagine these classes, they are in every game, with very very few exceptions.

Now, I have fell as low as silver, not from decay, but from terrible loss streaks, and I have been up to plat 2, which may be the pinnacle of my own personal performance, but the classes that I see the most are the same across the spectrum.

The most played classes, the lowest skill floor classes can go from the bottom and actually excel at the top.

You will also find that for a majority of the population, when they choose one of these, their performance goes up, and if they venture out of that lane, their performance dips, drastically.

It is at the point, where you will see two or more of the same class, because no one knows how to play something else.

They don't practice anything else.

Why should they?

This is effective, but now, that things are down to a few narrow choices, you will see a crowd of these classes.

 

 

So, why are the higher skill floors also paradoxically capped at mid tier to only high tier, and not the absolute top? (with a VERY VERY few exceptions, due to extremely skilled notable players)

I would have expected that lower skill floors to cap out lower, and higher skill floors to be more prevalent at the top, but the "HERO" professions are just TOO successful across the spectrum.

The threats to their success are virtually non-existent.

You see threads that pop up from time to time about this class or that class that threaten the META of the HERO professions.

And, those are far a few between.

Funny thing is, the devs actually make nerfs to those "balancing" or "villain" classes while leaving the others alone, subbing a buff for a nerf, or nerfing everyone else so the nerf is actually a buff for the "HERO" classes.

It makes for a very very boring, bland, and homogeneous game.

 

You see how this works, and why people cry for nerfs?

Why some classes feel left out or weak?

 

Weaknesses and trade-offs wasn't a bad idea.

Time to get back to that.

 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

necro guard thief rev meta 4 more years. with a hearty sprinkling of engi

Edited December 24, 2021 by Paradoxoglanis.1904

[Unknown.6851]

Boop

Edited December 24, 2021 by noobfest.2180

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

12 minutes ago, noobfest.2180 said:

You forget the second most overtly broken spec that has been hovering as such for the last few years on any side nodes besting basically every other side node build without breaking a sweat.  Players of silver to plat are playing it with ease. 
 

This spec gives passive condi tics by just existing and or being invulnerable along with multiple access to reflection, evasions, mountains of barrier(YUGE!) unblockable and/or cc spam (dazes stuns and knockdown!), chills and blinds, with oppressive condi bursts and aoe denial.. Usually with stacks as high as 7-9 whether they are bleeding, burn or both on a decent hit. Umm nerf coming when?

 

what is this mystery spec I’m talking about?

 

well my friends, just your commonplace burn weaver with or without earth shield.. as they can’t get enough bunk without it. Take care!

 

 

There's a huge difference between "Ele who spec'ed hard into this and has to press keys 200 times a minute" and "Necro who presses one key to survive while spamming damage on everything around it".

 

The whole point of this thread is about the skill floor, the opposite of what you posted.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Unknown.6851]

1 hour ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

necro guard thief rev meta 4 more years. with a hearty sprinkling of engi

Aren’t you conveniently forgetting one of the main culprits here?

 

Just one of the top THREE most overtly broken specs that has been hovering as such for the last few years. You can find them on any side node besting basically every other side node build without breaking a sweat.  Players of silver to plat are playing it with ease, low skill floor too!

This spec gives passive condi AOE tics by just standing near targets and or being *invulnerable* at the same time. Repeatable access to reflection, evasions, mountains of barrier(YUGE!) unblockable and/or cc spam (dazes stuns and knockdown!), chills and blinds, with oppressive condi bursts and aoe denial.. Usually with stacks as high as 7-9 whether they are bleeding, burn or both on a decent hit. Umm nerf coming when?

 

what is this mystery spec I’m talking about?

 

well my friends, just your average burn weaver with or without earth shield.. as they just can’t get quite enough bunk without it. 

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by noobfest.2180

[Unknown.6851]

3 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

There's a huge difference between "Ele who spec'ed hard into this and has to press keys 200 times a minute" and "Necro who presses one key to survive while spamming damage on everything around it".

 

The whole point of this thread is about the skill floor, the opposite of what you posted.

That is exactly the point I was making, go back and read the first two things I talked about. Have you ever played condi fire weaver?

Edited December 24, 2021 by noobfest.2180

[Dantheman.3589]

Ppl might hate me for saying it, but necro used to be a skillful class. Yes it was tanky and did damage but so what you had to play it right for it be a good carry.

 

now reaper is the ultimate 1 button win class, which is no fun and guess what it’s op on that and every single other build imaginable. Heck condi reaper is even busted rn looking at other classes and it’s still 1 button win.

 

nerf lich to the ground to start, if you do that reaper and core will be tolerable and minionmancer will be beatable 1v1 if the opponent is skillful

[Genesis.5169]

First time i ever seen some one advocate to make the game easier. /sarcasm

[Arheundel.6451]

5 hours ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Some classes, and this is sometimes only temporary, but some classes have a really low skill floor, and yet, they can go all the way to even rank one, even winning mats.

The skill ceiling for these same classes, is in a way that floor is 0 and ceiling is infinity (figure of speech).

What do you think happens?

I think, and I SAID THINK, that this is one of the most prevalent driving motivations for players to choose a class.

Without saying a single class, think of one in your head, that you know fits the above description.

Then, try to imagine how often or how rarely you see that class.

I have a couple, maybe  a few in my mind.

When I, (ME, MYSELF), imagine these classes, they are in every game, with very very few exceptions.

Now, I have fell as low as silver, not from decay, but from terrible loss streaks, and I have been up to plat 2, which may be the pinnacle of my own personal performance, but the classes that I see the most are the same across the spectrum.

The most played classes, the lowest skill floor classes can go from the bottom and actually excel at the top.

You will also find that for a majority of the population, when they choose one of these, their performance goes up, and if they venture out of that lane, their performance dips, drastically.

It is at the point, where you will see two or more of the same class, because no one knows how to play something else.

They don't practice anything else.

Why should they?

This is effective, but now, that things are down to a few narrow choices, you will see a crowd of these classes.

 

 

So, why are the higher skill floors also paradoxically capped at mid tier to only high tier, and not the absolute top? (with a VERY VERY few exceptions, due to extremely skilled notable players)

I would have expected that lower skill floors to cap out lower, and higher skill floors to be more prevalent at the top, but the "HERO" professions are just TOO successful across the spectrum.

The threats to their success are virtually non-existent.

You see threads that pop up from time to time about this class or that class that threaten the META of the HERO professions.

And, those are far a few between.

Funny thing is, the devs actually make nerfs to those "balancing" or "villain" classes while leaving the others alone, subbing a buff for a nerf, or nerfing everyone else so the nerf is actually a buff for the "HERO" classes.

It makes for a very very boring, bland, and homogeneous game.

 

You see how this works, and why people cry for nerfs?

Why some classes feel left out or weak?

 

Weaknesses and trade-offs wasn't a bad idea.

Time to get back to that.

 

Hard...doesn't sell ....faceroll sell wells and at the end pays the salary each month

[Spellhunter.9675]

I think every meta spec we have after PoF realease has equally low skill floor.

[anjo.6143]

The worst thing in this game is there is a class meta. So, there is better classes than others and that is just bizarre. 

 

Any class should do any role and any class should kill any class. 

 

It is simple: you hould have to choose between stats, you couldnt be both tanky and dps, for instance. 

[greedywholesome.9081]

Fire weaver got significant nerfs and I've noticed that a lot of people have abandoned playing it shortly after. The only really good thing about it is the sword and fire weavers can easily be countered by the LR or FA power variety. Not a fan of condi builds and really looking forward to the sweaty dps catalyst gameplay. 

[greedywholesome.9081]

One last thing, despite the fire weaver's sustain, the player still needs to move a lot, press tons of keys, position properly, have CD awareness because unlike the class the OP is referring to, the weaver will die if it doesn't move. Necro gameplay is slow and lazy yet very very efficient 🙂 

[Morwath.9817]

If you think players on top are top, because they play 0 skill floor classes, I've bad news for you.

[Crab Fear.1624]

1 hour ago, Morwath.9817 said:

If you think players on top are top, because they play 0 skill floor classes, I've bad news for you.

I'm talking about skill floor equity, not win trading .

[Morwath.9817]

27 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

I'm talking about skill floor equity, not win trading .

What has win trading to ATs and tournaments, or what impact it has on ratings outside of few snowflakes?

Edited December 24, 2021 by Morwath.9817

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

6 hours ago, noobfest.2180 said:

That is exactly the point I was making, go back and read the first two things I talked about. Have you ever played condi fire weaver?

im pretty sure i fought you on condi weaver once and killed you as a zerker staff ele.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

7 hours ago, noobfest.2180 said:

*sniff* wavers bully me *sniff* i can't oneshot them from stealth, cause they dodge *sniff* pls nerf *sniff*

You wrote such big wall of text and at the end of it you still mispelled "Scourge" and wrote "Weaver" for some reason, weird times.

[FarmBotXD.1430]

8 hours ago, Dantheman.3589 said:

Ppl might hate me for saying it, but necro used to be a skillful class. Yes it was tanky and did damage but so what you had to play it right for it be a good carry.

 

now reaper is the ultimate 1 button win class, which is no fun and guess what it’s op on that and every single other build imaginable. Heck condi reaper is even busted rn looking at other classes and it’s still 1 button win.

 

nerf lich to the ground to start, if you do that reaper and core will be tolerable and minionmancer will be beatable 1v1 if the opponent is skillful

necro used to take damage.
avoiding damage is difficult on necro, back when you had to avoid damage it made the class difficult.
now you dont have to avoid kitten, facetank everything and usually live anyways

[Stand The Wall.6987]

instead of redesigning the game they could just buff the counters of a specific class. that would be the easiest solution. if i were head honcho at anet i would add and buff a bunch of skills to each core class to flesh them out more, give more choices for players, and to further a classes design direction so that they can play off meta counters. wouldn't want to buff their weaknesses too much or make the counter in question an unwinnable matchup tho.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Give warrior damage back on CCs and a certain class would get checked properly.

[FarmBotXD.1430]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Give warrior damage back on CCs and a certain class would get checked properly.

the ammount of damage warrior would need to get to start beating necros would be enough to kitten on every other class.
you are like a dr house trying to fix one broken thing with another

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

27 minutes ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

the ammount of damage warrior would need to get to start beating necros would be enough to kitten on every other class.
you are like a dr house trying to fix one broken thing with another

It would not take nearly the amount you think mate.

[Genesis.5169]

36 minutes ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

the ammount of damage warrior would need to get to start beating necros would be enough to kitten on every other class.
you are like a dr house trying to fix one broken thing with another

I see you have never been killed in one CC from a warrior when your on CD with no endurance.

[FarmBotXD.1430]

Just now, Genesis.5169 said:

I see you have never been killed in one CC from a warrior when your on CD with no endurance.

not when playing a necromancer, no.
but then again, who can deal 70k damage at a time, let alone warrior