WvW feels boring

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

feb20 patch made everything worse yeah. buffed numbers of superbad groups, they simply can tank your dmg and permastun and poke you down.

 

before, good pugs could do more - but u could also do more in any situation alone as good player. crap stuff like thieves and rangers got a huge buff by beeing the only ones able to burst with nearly oneshots and condibunkers are even harder to bring down.

 

swarming and clouding also got buffs in some scenarios. u need way more focused dmg to create any serious bombing during any encounter. cc spam was also never this absurd.

 

@Grand Marshal.4098 we only play because we are used to play, and to play with the other people in our guilds, or to farm dailies or checking for "content" really. many people paused since feb20, a ton of guild players and guilds.

 

it is simply very stale to grind against any crappy cloud for kills. u have to chain a billion of strips and spikes constantly, or the self-sustain heavy smallscalebuilds just run to narnia after failing to pull-stun-gank one of your group....

 

any potato zerg is nearly unstoppable, unless u have a group yourself. like, 15 ppl of a guild can kill 40~ of a smaller blob, but in any larger equal skillscale fight, numbers are noticably more mattering.

 

less dmg, less fun, easy to get i'd say.

 

the skills and classes and mechanics aren't made for the slow combat we got from feb20 nerferama.

[pcgamefreak.5208]

WvW is boring because it's messed up and I only run it because of Legendaries.  The classes are horrible and all over the place.  For instance...

Players swear there's a such thing as a "condi" build but it's not.  The "Devs" made sure of that when they added all the so called "CC" and conditional damage resistance, which you see more of in "EOD" Elite Specs.

Consider this...  A Daredevil (thief) removes conditions every time he/she does a stealth.  If you're a "condi" core Necro and stacking conditional damage, how do you beat  the thief one on one if you're conditions are removed every time the thief vanish and given 99% of those who play thief are using hacks that allow them to vanish as many times as needed, your conditions are never going to do any damage what so ever.  That's how brain dead the development is.

Consider this...  Precision can actually increase conditional damage (Necro) but in order to get it with the condition attribute, you'll have to drop vitality.  Here's the thing with that...  Your Life Force Pool is tied to your vitality!  Wow....  Just, Wow....  So that defeats the purpose of that option.

The Boons are so out of hand, you can have a 2.5k conditional damage attribute and still see ticks on screen of 97 damage per tick.  ....................................  Utter disgrace!

Conditional damage builds do NOT exists, you can only build with power.  I have noticed this "tho"....   Non-Necro classes do more damage with their conditions and with a lower conditional attribute and don’t give me that “spec” tree ‘garb’ because that’s not it, it’s just the way the “Devs” set it.

It's bad enough the "CC" is out of hand but why do you have to allow a player to not only pull another player forward and to the ground, but have the "CC'ed" player lay there for almost ten seconds....   You're creating an easy win with just one "CC" ability.

World of Warcaft was not as bad as GW2 in the PvP department.  The real reason so many players left "WOW" is because they got tired of doing impossible Raids for the best gear in the game.  Sure the classes were unbalance but nothing remotely close to the level of GW2's entire Player vs Player concept and design.

To say it's all ridiculous is an understatement.

So yeah, players are going to get bored of Zergs "CC'ing" them to the point they can't move or do anything but watch their character get raped.  At least you could go down fighting in World of Warcraft, you don't even have that honor with GW2' pile of chaotic concepts.

Seriously, if I didn't have to do WvW, PvP, Raids and 'Fracs' to get Legendary gear, I would have never touched WvW or at least left and never looked back once I saw how bad is was.

Players doing crazy damage way in the distance....  They don’t even have to bother with anyone, just blow them up in the distance with a rapid fire, all while watching a pet or clone gnaw on their ‘grits.’

Core Necros going into Shroud with no stability so they instantly get pulled forward to the ground where they’ll lay for 10 seconds, while watching their Shroud get wasted.

“Gawd”.....  Just zero balance on everything!

Why do Necros have so much cast time!?  Every ability seems like it has to blink several times before it actually activates.  That much time can make the difference between dying and living in WvW.

That life drain while in Shroud...an absolute joke because it doesn’t even scratch most players.  Why give one class so many dead-end abilities....  I hate the fact “Eles” have that enormous cast time when dropping that meteor shower attack and they have to not be moving.  That’s garbage!  That cast should be instant and they should be able to do it on the move, given how fragile that class can be (PvE that is; they can‘t be killed in WvW somehow).

Why are the Necro marks so visible, making them easy to dodge?  Most physical attack abilities by power players are instant and will not show anything on screen, indicating where.  It’s like the “Devs” said, ok...we go make it easy for every class to take down the Necro by making the whole staff weapon useless because the Marks can be seen and blocked or dodged, all while eating a big mack and drinking coffee.

Of course WvW is going to get boring but hey, the hackers are having fun....  The “ArenaNet Babies” are having fun...  The “Devs” are still getting paid....  ArenaNet is still making cold hard cash....  Fan Boys and Fan Girls are still denying everything wrong with the game....

Doesn’t take long before you get bored with it all.

Peace and forgive “typos”, not proof reading this.
 

[Dawdler.8521]

8 minutes ago, Horace.3184 said:

Seriously, if I didn't have to do WvW, PvP, Raids and 'Fracs' to get Legendary gear, I would have never touched WvW or at least left and never looked back once I saw how bad is was.

The serious question to that is... what do you need legendary gear for?

[Sahne.6950]

I will be straight honest here... you sound like someone that just took his PvE gear, jumped into WvW and expects to be effective with it. 

 just run celestial core necro and you will never ever die to all those "cheater thiefs". 😉

 

Alot of what your saying SCREAMS "i dont know how to play this gamemode at all, but i think i am a good player... and if i die... its has to be due to bad balancing and not because i dont fully understand WvW and its Metagame yet" 

2 hours ago, Horace.3184 said:

Conditional damage builds do NOT exists, you can only build with power.

bro.... celestial is everywhere in roaming.

For GvG content, people religiously run power. BUT i know of groups that also run conditiondamage. The thing with conditions in largescale is, that they could be strong. But for them to be strong, EVERYONE in your group has to play condi, in order to overwhelm the enemy cleansewall.  Conditions could see play, but people stick to their powerbuilds, thus the 1 or 2 condibuilds in a zerg are omega useless, because they are facing 10+ dedicated cleansers in the opposing zerg. 

YOU are running a core condi pve build inside of zergs and wonder why you are useless.....

2 hours ago, Horace.3184 said:

I hate the fact “Eles” have that enormous cast time when dropping that meteor shower attack and they have to not be moving.  That’s garbage!

What if i told you... you can use burning retreat and while you are dodging backwards you can cast the meteor shower.... effectively building a distance of over 2200 Units to where the meteor shower will land.... AND THE SKILL WILL STILL BEGIN CASTING. you can cast meteorshower from a safe distance... but you actuallly need to invest some time and learn your spec 😉 you on the other hand chose to come to the forums to QQ.

2 hours ago, Horace.3184 said:

 Most physical attack abilities by power players are instant and will not show anything on screen

yeah... okey.... i always thought that the weaponswing animations are supposed to be a teller... but okey...... HOW DARE ANET NOT ADD AOE INDICATORS FOR SWORD SWINGS!!!! UNBALANCED!

you know what actually is almost instant and has no warning....

2 hours ago, Horace.3184 said:

Necro marks

 

2 hours ago, Horace.3184 said:

The Boons are so out of hand, you can have a 2.5k conditional damage attribute and still see ticks on screen of 97 damage per tick.

not even sure what your trying to say here... Everything your saying SCREAMS: "i have no clue about WvW but im dying with my PvE-Gear and i dont like dying!

 

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Cyninja.2954]

2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

snip

 

 

Check post history of the player you are replying to. That will tell you all you need to know about this player.

 

He is regularly necroing threads and only complains about every aspect of the game. Often going out of his way to find a months or years old thread, only to complain (sometimes not even related to the post he necroes topic).

 

Wouldn't be surprised if he is not even actively playing but just trolling because he can't let it go. 🤷‍♂️

 

 

[hardloop von edgehoven.851]

gw2 wvw is the definition of rewardless boredom. its basically blobvp vs a castle/tower/camp, running circles nd killing . and i f i want to get wild i even call it blobvp vs castles for kitten pvp wannabes.  its pseudo pvp on too large maps with bad mapdesigns and no rewards for using siegemechanics other than wall rams. iliterally cracked open walls with longrange siegeweapons and the zerg just rushed to the spot and inside n killed npcs gettin all the whocaresabout... and i got NOTHIN for it. and i thought, well back to standing around and farming synthesizers then.

i mean, i came from aocs broken crap mechanics and gw2 has it ALL working fine, and all thats left is polishing the maps, mechanics and rewards and thats it. running an 2ffaction alterac for the 10ks time just killin the npc bosses is more fun.

Edited May 27, 2023 by hardloop von edgehoven.851

[Xenesis.6389]

55 minutes ago, hardloop von edgehoven.851 said:

gw2 wvw is the definition of rewardless boredom. its basically blobvp vs a castle/tower/camp, running circles nd killing . and i f i want to get wild i even call it blobvp vs castles for kitten pvp wannabes.  its pseudo pvp on too large maps with bad mapdesigns and no rewards for using siegemechanics other than wall rams. iliterally cracked open walls with longrange siegeweapons and the zerg just rushed to the spot and inside n killed npcs gettin all the whocaresabout... and i got NOTHIN for it. and i thought, well back to standing around and farming synthesizers then.

i mean, i came from aocs broken crap mechanics and gw2 has it ALL working fine, and all thats left is polishing the maps, mechanics and rewards and thats it. running an 2ffaction alterac for the 10ks time just killin the npc bosses is more fun.

You could just go do pve if you're just looking for rewards... 🤷‍♂️

[Kozumi.5816]

On 1/18/2022 at 10:35 AM, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Look these things also make WvW what it is. And I still play almost daily. Issue here is the whole problem stems from lack of balance patches shaking up the meta, EVEN, in a predictable way!

Need to remove mobility and boon power creep, it's absurd and has been for a very long time.

Edited May 27, 2023 by Kozumi.5816

[Grand Marshal.4098]

28 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Need to remove mobility and boon power creep, it's absurd and has been for a very long time.

nah i just stopped playing now 

[Xenesis.6389]

Don't worry guys!

more new grind rewards soon!

will make you forget about creeps!

and will make wvw not boring again!

SOON™️!

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 1/18/2022 at 10:26 AM, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

Pretty much only enjoy this game mode during no downstate weeks, ever since Feb 2020 patch.

 I miss enjoying WvW and I was wondering what keeps people playing WvW and having fun with it in 2022.

I crave for more 'No Downstate' events. They were the only thing that has really shook up wvw status quo in the past few years. (Forget "Alliances" lmao)  But more importantly: they took down zergs. And folks, we can't have that now can we?

On 1/19/2022 at 10:43 PM, subversiontwo.7501 said:

The saddest part about this stuff is that the game launched with the recipe to solve all these problems.

In vanilla GW2 was designed to be the social MMO, to do right the things that WoW failed to keep and expand on GW1. Living World was supposed to be expansion and replacement of the social of map-events in the open world. The game was designed from combat systems and up to be "truly social" where you "play together, not just next to each other" (in some old Anet panel qoutes). That combat system excelled in WvW. This game has always excelled in and been competetive in its open world systems. This also includes the build systems and the exploration and all those things. The only real mistake here was when they got too preoccupied with esports and supported sPvP over WvW but truth be told PvP as a whole began playing second fiddle already by then.

In HoT GW2 was designed to be the challenger MMO, competing with what the other games did right and expanding on WoW. It was a lofty goal but they pursued it at the expense of more or less the entire game and what it was. The design, mechanics and balance of everything was retooled for raiding and the internal balance and structure was setup for raiding. I can't remember exactly, but they had multiple teams for raids alone while they dismantled the PvP teams. This is also when they began chasing trends only to abandon them too: Strongholds (Moba), Guild Halls etc. All of this while open PvE and open PvP have the most in common regarding gearing, balance, movement and mechanics needs.

In PoF GW2 was designed to be the "casual" and back-to-basics "MMO" where they tried to get existing players of both GW1 and GW2 to stay. This is also when all resources were moved from raids to personal story efforts and all LW maps (while new maps were good) were turned into personal grind maps or start-to-finish maps while the PoF maps have little to no replayability (with both HoT and vanilla maps having more reasons to be revisited), likely because the PoF maps are also more about the personal expansion story than they are about the original concept of a social living world with good dynamic event design.

It seems that they themselves only recently have begun to see that the strengths, replayability and lasting aspects of the game lie in the open world content types of PvE and PvP (eg., PvE map design, events, bosses, story-event-interaction, WvW and where there is truly social player interaction). What remains to be seen is if they can pull that comeback off or if we will just see more story with EoD and beyond it. I really hope the map design and event chaining is good on the EoD maps, that they put together the open-instanced interaction in a good way and that they can keep a focus on WvW and build more PvP overlap and interaction overall too. It has been such a mistake to overlook GvG, GW1 modes and only having 2v2 and 3v3 TDM for so long since that is what can bridge sPvP and WvW. It has been such a waste. It could have been 5v5 and 8v8 or 10v10 TDM since vanilla, because they've been aware of the demand since then (also aknowledged during panels and interviews). If you think about everything from doubling down on conquest, to abandoning WvW, to denying GvG, to strongholds, guild halls and max 3v3, they have really gone out of their way not to give the players what they want and fought the demand every step of the way - and they've pulled projects and resources along the way. We are the zombie of MMO, the walking dead.

Exactly. Competitive multiplayer in mmorpgs is dead and buried. I've pretty much moved on to mostly single-player games. The fact is that mobas are where the money is. There is less work to do to make them and support them than action mmorpgs, which are expensive to make. Also, we had 8v8 for spvp at release, but for some reason it became 5v5 because thought it was "too messy and zerg-like". I thought it was fine.

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 1/20/2022 at 2:25 PM, Xenesis.6389 said:

Gw2 is so lucky that they have one of, it not, the best combat system in any mmo, it's carried wvw for 9 years, it's too bad they don't realize that and give us the worse balancing schedules ever. At this point I'm not interesting in the expansion, I'm not interested in alliances, I'm waiting to see what balance and gameplay changes they are going to do for wvw after they finally get past all that.

The combat system is actually the PROBLEM with gw2. Sure, it's fun to experience and look at, but it's shallow. It works with open-world (both pve and wvw) since the open world hides its flaws. You'll find that the combat falls apart in small-scale. (See ganking and the entirety of spvp!) As fun as I find roaming at times, there is no getting around this. Action combat in rpgs just ages disgracefully once you find an efficient class and build combination (aka "meta"). In action games, mobility and reaction time are everything. In terms of action rpgs, all that's needed is to find a strong class (offense/defense) that can move quickly and dominate the rest as well as good reflexes. Of course, Anet historically tried to get around this via their 'balancing' by having multiple "meta" builds or just rotating the "metas".

This is why gw1 is great to this day. In rpgs with tab-targeting and limited movement, it's possible to construct a viable combat system and actual rpg roles. Turn-based, too. (ex the early Final Fantasy games).

[Xenesis.6389]

48 minutes ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

The combat system is actually the PROBLEM with gw2. Sure, it's fun to experience and look at, but it's shallow. It works with open-world (both pve and wvw) since the open world hides its flaws. You'll find that the combat falls apart in small-scale. (See ganking and the entirety of spvp!) As fun as I find roaming at times, there is no getting around this. Action combat in rpgs just ages disgracefully once you find an efficient class and build combination (aka "meta"). In action games, mobility and reaction time are everything. In terms of action rpgs, all that's needed is to find a strong class (offense/defense) that can move quickly and dominate the rest as well as good reflexes. Of course, Anet historically tried to get around this via their 'balancing' by having multiple "meta" builds or just rotating the "metas".

This is why gw1 is great to this day. In rpgs with tab-targeting and limited movement, it's possible to construct a viable combat system and actual rpg roles. Turn-based, too. (ex the early Final Fantasy games).

The problem is the system or is really the balancing around the system? hmmmm.

Despite all the layers of garbage they've added to combat since HoT, it's still one of the most fun combat systems in mmorpgs. But yeah there's a ton of problems with it, the balance team has done a poor job keeping some specs in the meta for years while dunking on others for just as long, biased through and through. Sticking to tired old metas that certain group of players want, the power and survival and mobility creep for roaming, and balancing to extremes. Not to mention handing off tools of one class to an entirely different one that probably shouldn't have access to it.

Now upcoming, do we need more support getting boon spam buffed? no. Do we need support builds getting more damage? no. But apparently in 2023 they think we do. Biggest problem with gw2 combat is they never followed trinity rules for balancing. 🤷‍♂️

[Artemis.8034]

what anet should do to freshen up wvw is add a new type of map. A 20vs20 capture point map, like run an enemy flag to your base without them taking it back or taking your flag for capture. Or survive a gauntlet of environmental pitfalls like lava rockslides  destroyable bridge crossing to reach the base and capture it first, all while fighting the enemy team along the way

[Xenesis.6389]

13 minutes ago, Artemis.8034 said:

what anet should do to freshen up wvw is add a new type of map. A 20vs20 capture point map, like run an enemy flag to your base without them taking it back or taking your flag for capture. Or survive a gauntlet of environmental pitfalls like lava rockslides  destroyable bridge crossing to reach the base and capture it first, all while fighting the enemy team along the way

You'll just end up with flag fly hackers like the orb. 🤷‍♂️

[JTGuevara.9018]

55 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

The problem is the system or is really the balancing around the system? hmmmm.

Despite all the layers of garbage they've added to combat since HoT, it's still one of the most fun combat systems in mmorpgs. But yeah there's a ton of problems with it, the balance team has done a poor job keeping some specs in the meta for years while dunking on others for just as long, biased through and through. Sticking to tired old metas that certain group of players want, the power and survival and mobility creep for roaming, and balancing to extremes. Not to mention handing off tools of one class to an entirely different one that probably shouldn't have access to it.

Now upcoming, do we need more support getting boon spam buffed? no. Do we need support builds getting more damage? no. But apparently in 2023 they think we do. Biggest problem with gw2 combat is they never followed trinity rules for balancing. 🤷‍♂️

No need to sugarcoat it, it's the system. If you think this can be balanced then good luck to you. I don't.

I JUST got done being run over by BG and their boon vomit. Without all the stupid projectile hate, they would be more manageable.

And regarding rpg roles and the trinity, I don't think you can have it in an action game. It just falls apart since people can move freely. gw2 tried their "pseudo trinity" but it failed.

[Kozumi.5816]

22 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

The combat system is actually the PROBLEM with gw2. Sure, it's fun to experience and look at, but it's shallow. It works with open-world (both pve and wvw) since the open world hides its flaws. You'll find that the combat falls apart in small-scale. (See ganking and the entirety of spvp!) As fun as I find roaming at times, there is no getting around this. Action combat in rpgs just ages disgracefully once you find an efficient class and build combination (aka "meta"). In action games, mobility and reaction time are everything. In terms of action rpgs, all that's needed is to find a strong class (offense/defense) that can move quickly and dominate the rest as well as good reflexes. Of course, Anet historically tried to get around this via their 'balancing' by having multiple "meta" builds or just rotating the "metas".

This is why gw1 is great to this day. In rpgs with tab-targeting and limited movement, it's possible to construct a viable combat system and actual rpg roles. Turn-based, too. (ex the early Final Fantasy games).

Agreed, this games combat is the worst in the genre for PvP.

Funnily enough it also has the worst PvE combat in the genre too, with a much worse holy trinity system to boot.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Kozumi.5816

[Artemis.8034]

23 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

No need to sugarcoat it, it's the system. If you think this can be balanced then good luck to you. I don't.

I JUST got done being run over by BG and their boon vomit. Without all the stupid projectile hate, they would be more manageable.

And regarding rpg roles and the trinity, I don't think you can have it in an action game. It just falls apart since people can move freely. gw2 tried their "pseudo trinity" but it failed.

Oh it works big scale pvp in other games proves it. The problem with gw2 is no targeted healing and decursing along with aoe heals. If you played any other big mmorpg in pvp you would know it works. GW2 however has a failed experiment of maybe trinity but not putting in the system for trinity to shine. I played large scale pvp and small scale pvp in other games and yes balance will always be a problem 1vs1 because there is no uniform class. In pvp oriented games all the classes are pretty much similar with one or 2 things a little different. You cant balance pvp that well in a game with tons of builds and spells that all work differently. So the next logical step in an mmo of this type is to make it about teamwork, they kinda fail at that because they do allow blobs instead of a more controlled group where your healers can do their job but also cant when under pressure. Its give and take in pvp, and there is no i in team. 

They need to restructure how the maps work and how many are allowed in, queue the system to allow a certain amount of boons and heals and damage on each team. And open a new type of map for 20vs20 or 10v10 or 30v30, blobs are not fun there is no actual strategy just brute over power the other side 

[babana.7521]

On 1/18/2022 at 11:26 PM, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

Pretty much only enjoy this game mode during no downstate weeks, ever since Feb 2020 patch.

 I miss enjoying WvW and I was wondering what keeps people playing WvW and having fun with it in 2022.

Necro thread....

[Chaba.5410]

On 5/27/2023 at 12:31 PM, JTGuevara.9018 said:

The combat system is actually the PROBLEM with gw2. Sure, it's fun to experience and look at, but it's shallow. It works with open-world (both pve and wvw) since the open world hides its flaws. You'll find that the combat falls apart in small-scale. (See ganking and the entirety of spvp!) As fun as I find roaming at times, there is no getting around this. Action combat in rpgs just ages disgracefully once you find an efficient class and build combination (aka "meta"). In action games, mobility and reaction time are everything. In terms of action rpgs, all that's needed is to find a strong class (offense/defense) that can move quickly and dominate the rest as well as good reflexes. Of course, Anet historically tried to get around this via their 'balancing' by having multiple "meta" builds or just rotating the "metas".

This is why gw1 is great to this day. In rpgs with tab-targeting and limited movement, it's possible to construct a viable combat system and actual rpg roles. Turn-based, too. (ex the early Final Fantasy games).

What? There's a meta in GW1 too. It isn't clear what comparison you are trying to make here.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Remove warclaw,  remove scourge or total redesign it for wvw. Just these changes would make wvw feel 100x better imo.

[Xenesis.6389]

1 hour ago, babana.7521 said:

Necro thread....

Actually a current thread got merged with the older thread, no idea why lol.

[JTGuevara.9018]

30 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

What? There's a meta in GW1 too. It isn't clear what comparison you are trying to make here.

Yeah, but you could counter them and do something about it. In gw2, you can't beat 'meta' builds. You play them instead.

[enkidu.5937]

On 2/9/2023 at 11:22 AM, Horace.3184 said:

Consider this...  A Daredevil (thief) removes conditions every time he/she does a stealth.  If you're a "condi" core Necro and stacking conditional damage, how do you beat  the thief one on one if you're conditions are removed every time the thief vanish and given 99% of those who play thief are using hacks that allow them to vanish as many times as needed, your conditions are never going to do any damage what so ever.

Rune of the Hacker:  gain all boons and lose all conditions every time you use a hack 🫠

[Xenesis.6389]

15 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Yeah, but you could counter them and do something about it. In gw2, you can't beat 'meta' builds. You play them instead.

Yeah you don't beat them, you either play them or gank them. 🤭🍿