Spinal Shivers 7k-9k at 1200 range LMAO

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Mik.3401 said:

Do you mean freshair with sword? I have the scepter in mind but maybe I got it all wrong not sure 😅 I think freshair with sword is played only in PvE sometimes but again I don’t know anymore lol

I'm thinking more than likely variants of Cellofrags sword WvW build.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

35 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

I ment the range projectiles not being rendered, all u will see is combat logs with the absorbed skills by SoA.

This game is not good at rendering projectiles, outside 1v1 will be hard to notice.

Ah, thanks for clarifying.

[Axl.8924]

On 2/6/2022 at 11:19 AM, Telgum.6071 said:

To be fair, we have threads complaining about thieves/stealth every week.

I get sick of those personally and worry about thief being deleted from pvp and WVW.

[Salt Mode.3780]

4 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

I get sick of those personally and worry about thief being deleted from pvp and WVW.

That is quite hilarious thieves getting deleted from pvp and wvw...yea good one...whats next they r going to revert the feb patch??? 

[Axl.8924]

5 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

That is quite hilarious thieves getting deleted from pvp and wvw...yea good one...whats next they r going to revert the feb patch??? 

With a name like yours yeah you sound salty towards thief. A thief without stealth and mobility isn't quite a thief. Could it use nerf to stealth? prob maybe if its a problem do some peeps exaggerate? yes and thats why i worry.The thief class unlike for instance warrior or Necro can't tank hits they use evasions and other stuff to avoid being hit. The problem is it actually might be too much and kinda busted, especially Roaming in WVW where nobody has a chance against them, and somewhat in spvp.

And not a thief main i tend to play all sorts of classes.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Axl.8924

[Salt Mode.3780]

47 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

With a name like yours yeah you sound salty towards thief. A thief without stealth and mobility isn't quite a thief. Could it use nerf to stealth? prob maybe if its a problem do some peeps exaggerate? yes and thats why i worry.The thief class unlike for instance warrior or Necro can't tank hits they use evasions and other stuff to avoid being hit. The problem is it actually might be too much and kinda busted, especially Roaming in WVW where nobody has a chance against them, and somewhat in spvp.

And not a thief main i tend to play all sorts of classes.

Lol my name has nothing to do with my perspective towards classes, people complain about spinal chill being too high damage well no one has answered my question what was the damage on a target without boons....?

As far as thieves go the only thing that I want a nerf is that you come out of stealth even when you attack regardless if the attack registered or not. This goes for ANY stealth class that isn't exclusive to thief which includes Mesmer, Rangers, Engi. 

OH and nerf SA because of how stupidly kitten it makes dagger/pistol combo, but this is a NECRO section of the forum not for thieves to cry wolf.

[Aeolus.3615]

42 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

With a name like yours yeah you sound salty towards thief. A thief without stealth and mobility isn't quite a thief. Could it use nerf to stealth? prob maybe if its a problem do some peeps exaggerate? yes and thats why i worry.The thief class unlike for instance warrior or Necro can't tank hits they use evasions and other stuff to avoid being hit. The problem is it actually might be too much and kinda busted, especially Roaming in WVW where nobody has a chance against them, and somewhat in spvp.

And not a thief main i tend to play all sorts of classes.

I would say that's what  thiefs are ment to do, they are assassins more than thiefs, and in the game mechanics the high the mnobility and damage with the adition of stealth the better.

Still with the huge amount of aoe spam we have in this game, being thief in the past most melee spec they had to have a decent dive in and out mechanic.

[Nimon.7840]

I think it's fine to have this one skill on necro that can hit this hard.

Reasoning behind this:

It's a conditional skill.

Let me explain:

To get these high numbers you need certain conditions met:

- It needs to crit. Sounds stupid, but it's not that easy to reach 100% crit hance out of shroud on Necro. So it's often done by sigil of intelligence (the one that lets you crit after weaponswap)

- it has a 1 second casttime, even with quickness there's normally still enough reaction time to the activation of the skill.

- target needs at least 3 boons. Counterplay: don't spam your boons against necros, that's a bad idea in general against classes that have removes/corrupts

- even on full zerker gear: with 0 might and 0 vulnerability on the target, that skill will "only" hit for around 6-8k against full glass enemies

- with some might and vuln it's pretty easy to up this to 12k against full glass enemies. But if you are playing full glass you have to expect, that people might be able to oneshot you.

On top of that:

- it's single target. Not like you can one shot a whole group of 5, like it's possible on other classes.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Nimon.7840

[Aeolus.3615]

 

@Nimon.7840  its a direct spell on target with poor animation that the real issue if we talk about spinal alone.

I cant tell how many times ive been killed cause i dont want boons but some guy comes spamming a horde of boons and i get huge damage... if this isnt team damage i dont know what it is.... 

Still not the real problem with reaper/necro some classes also reach some kinda of  overperfomance when reaching strong boon momemtums, i think this skill counters those almost boon carry builds and puts them in place.

Maybe do less damage with 3 but add more damage increases wiith 4th and 5th boon ?

Edited February 8, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[The Boz.2038]

"I got countered by a build literally designed to counter me, anet plz nerf"
tl;dr version of the OP

"Upon encountering a build designed to counter me and my playstyle, I did nothing to change my playstyle, and thus got countered."
tl;dr version of the rest of the discussion

[Aeolus.3615]

42 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

"I got countered by a build literally designed to counter me, anet plz nerf"
tl;dr version of the OP

"Upon encountering a build designed to counter me and my playstyle, I did nothing to change my playstyle, and thus got countered."
tl;dr version of the rest of the discussion

on Gw1 we has necro players had similiar skills, that would end the fun of players that are boon heavy.

Wonder what makes it quite strong here,  maybe cause in gw1 we had healers mandatory and here we dont but still being optional.. reason 1vs1 or when some one is half health 1 shivers alone will wrek it.

This is why direct healing skills exist, issue is most players want only boon effects :), im actualçly impressed necros dont spike calls nor gank commander tags with this skill, while have a team of 3-5 rangers or DE pin sniping the downed tag.

 

@solemn.9670 ur missing my 7k heals or the old 14-16k heals before damage and heal nerfs :P, Necro since gw1 was strong against boon/enchanted targets like "your fun ends now", was a heavy counter to monks, and since now everything is monk boon chanting they are strong against every one :)

The only thing i can imagine would be increase slightly the skill CD itself, since its a heavy damage skill but even that would have to be tested and decent iterated before.

 

One thing for shure... it needs better effects on target and needs to be  dodge if possible, like some sorta 0-5 to 1sec delay effect with some green rain raining on top of target.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[KrHome.1920]

1 hour ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

reason 1vs1 or when some one is half health 1 shivers alone will wrek it.

This is not true at all, It highly depends on the encounter. I don't even run focus anymore in most of my builds, because its impact is negligible. The glass canons you can wreck with it, you can wreck with any shroud combo as well. Range is also not an argument, because glassy ranged encounters (you could actually hurt with Spinal Shivers) will destroy you while casting the skill.

In fact cast times of 1 second or more have a high chance to fail due to a random dodge, block, evade ... in this game.

1 hour ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

im actualçly impressed necros dont spike calls nor gank commander tags with this skill, 

Spinal Shivers deals roughly 3k critical damage on a buffed minstrel commander and the stripped boons are reapplied withing half a second.

[Shroud.2307]

8 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

no one has answered my question what was the damage on a target without boons....?

On average, 1 - 2k, less than 1k on tanky targets or if it doesn't crit.

I main zerk core Necro all in on damage. SS hits 6 - 9k pretty regularly when removing 3 Boons, and can hit quite a bit harder, but above 9k is rare.
It's one of those things like Dragon's Tooth where it has the potential to do super high damage, but it's rare that it does. Most times it just hits hard not "holy kitten what was that damage" hard.

If OP wants to talk about range and damage, how about we take a look at True Shot?
1,500 range - more range.
8 second recharge - lower recharge.
3/4s cast time - lower cast time.
Pierces.
Same Power coefficient as level 2 Spinal Shivers.
???
Also can be used while protected behind Shield Of Courage or Shelter, so it's much easier to protect yourself during the cast time.

I don't see much reason to keep talking though, fortunately most people seem to agree the skill is fine, it could just use a better animation so it's more visible. And I agree with that 100%. Any high impact skill should be very easy to see coming, and while SS has a 1 second cast time, that's still not the easiest thing to see in group fights. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Shroud.2307

[Salt Mode.3780]

I mean I know how much it does because I play necro on a regular basis as well. Its just people who SEE that damage not understand why it does that much damage is the ridiculous part. The rhetorical question was meant for the people who complain about the damage for spinal chill. Its simply because they are too lazy to understand how the damage works and decide to go on forums to complain. 

That is why classes get nerfed for no reason.

[Morde.3158]

ah the good old days of double spinal procs one hitting you for maybe 16k to 18k the second proc  (trait) finishing off cry babies the ones who are afraid of dieing in a game so they only play with a group or play a full escape build or a full stealth build.

[Salt Mode.3780]

3 minutes ago, Morde.3158 said:

ah the good old days of double spinal procs one hitting you for maybe 16k to 18k the second proc  (trait) finishing off cry babies the ones who are afraid of dieing in a game so they only play with a group or play a full escape build or a full stealth build.

I do miss this very much, I miss when people actually did damage instead of this boon ball bunker meta....whoever can stack and uptime on boons is the winner~

[Downstate.4697]

Roaming is a joke and has been for years. Play spvp if you dont want to be meme'd on

[Aeolus.3615]

On 2/8/2022 at 6:21 PM, Shroud.2307 said:

On average, 1 - 2k, less than 1k on tanky targets or if it doesn't crit.

I main zerk core Necro all in on damage. SS hits 6 - 9k pretty regularly when removing 3 Boons, and can hit quite a bit harder, but above 9k is rare.
It's one of those things like Dragon's Tooth where it has the potential to do super high damage, but it's rare that it does. Most times it just hits hard not "holy kitten what was that damage" hard.

If OP wants to talk about range and damage, how about we take a look at True Shot?
1,500 range - more range.
8 second recharge - lower recharge.
3/4s cast time - lower cast time.
Pierces.
Same Power coefficient as level 2 Spinal Shivers.
???
Also can be used while protected behind Shield Of Courage or Shelter, so it's much easier to protect yourself during the cast time.

I don't see much reason to keep talking though, fortunately most people seem to agree the skill is fine, it could just use a better animation so it's more visible. And I agree with that 100%. Any high impact skill should be very easy to see coming, and while SS has a 1 second cast time, that's still not the easiest thing to see in group fights. 

When  compared to TS i have some  questions.....

True shot:

Can be reflected and absorbed.

Aegis at least will impair some hit.

It has a " somewhat decent" animation so it can be dodged.

Will root caster to perform  action.

Can be somewhat spammed with alacratiry and quickeness at 1500 range(when on group).

Spinal shivers: 

Ment to remove block 1st so it will hit.-

Can the skill be reflected or absorbed?

Is there any animation besides a direct effect of the skill ?

Can be used every 16sec or less with trait and alacrity(when on group).

 

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Shroud.2307]

25 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

When  compared to TS i have some  questions.....

True shot:

Can be reflected and absorbed.

Aegis at least will impair some hit.

It has a " somewhat decent" animation so it can be dodged.

Will root caster to perform  action.

Can be somewhat spammed with alacratiry and quickeness at 1500 range(when on group).

Spinal shivers: 

Ment to remove block 1st so it will hit.-

Can the skill be reflected or absorbed?

Is there any animation besides a direct effect of the skill that alows players to take action of defense?

Can be used every 16sec or less with trait and alacrity(when on group).

 

 

Reflect is hardly an issue with the block uptime Guard has, nevermind the recharge of the skill being low enough to make it irrelevant if a shot is wasted on one. Besides Tempest, nothing is going to reflect more than one. 

Caster being rooted is a valid point, but Judge's Intervention exists, and it's not even a full second root.

Spinal Shivers does not remove Aegis unless it's not the first Boon. If Aegis is the first Boon, it will be blocked.
This is a bug that has been present basically forever. Bug or no, it does get blocked by Aegis.

Comparing classes is never a fair way to balance. Apples and oranges. I was less making an argument and more making a statement that in team fights it is better and more impactful than Spinal Shivers. 
I'm not going to cry nerf, but it is far beyond me why DH is allowed to do the damage it does and no one ever says anything about it.

[Bingus.4236]

6 hours ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Roaming is a joke and has been for years. Play spvp if you dont want to be meme'd on

 

spvp is never the solution.

[Aeolus.3615]

3 hours ago, Shroud.2307 said:

(snip)
Spinal Shivers does not remove Aegis unless it's not the first Boon. If Aegis is the first Boon, it will be blocked.
This is a bug that has been present basically forever. Bug or no, it does get blocked by Aegis.
(snip)

So it will just remove the boon has a normal boon if triggered during boon removal, and will be blocked if gets aegis in the way as a 1st boon cause of the casting into target effect.

Still wiki says wich led me to question it has a unblockables towards aegis.

• This skill is unblockable by Aegis. Aegis on target is removed by this skill.

 

What about the animation isnt it a direct damage  by just /wave at some one with no tell or very poor tell? Wich IMO m8 be the real issue of this skill, maybe its max damage could be at the 4th boon or 5th tho if anet could had more 2 boons to help skill scale same damage or less ofc, also i belive spinal also ignores target armor?

I think a decent way to balance this skill would be make it a a delay 1sec to 1,2 sec to make damage  with a green rain above target, skills on ventari since that can heal arround 7k to 10k(depending game mode) they also have a delay after cast to execute. 

About DH damage i think theres plenty of counters to it, every absorptions and reflects will actually counters lots of guardian skills from  sword, greatsword, focus, bow. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[DeceiverX.8361]

On 2/8/2022 at 11:39 AM, KrHome.1920 said:

This is not true at all, It highly depends on the encounter. I don't even run focus anymore in most of my builds, because its impact is negligible. The glass canons you can wreck with it, you can wreck with any shroud combo as well. Range is also not an argument, because glassy ranged encounters (you could actually hurt with Spinal Shivers) will destroy you while casting the skill.

In fact cast times of 1 second or more have a high chance to fail due to a random dodge, block, evade ... in this game.

Spinal Shivers deals roughly 3k critical damage on a buffed minstrel commander and the stripped boons are reapplied withing half a second.

As I've echoed for years - OH dagger is a sleeper on competent players who understand skill queues on midair projectiles, and covers significantly more vulnerabilities Reaper has.

  

On 2/7/2022 at 10:11 AM, Dawdler.8521 said:

I dont know about NA but I think what most call "FA weaver" isnt actually that. Its just a common calling name because well thats what we know as the "duelist" and "roamer" for eles. In practice, most weavers I meet is of a nasty presumably cele variant thats practically immune to condi, a ton of projectile hate, got insane healing sustain, very hard to CC and has enough power and so much comboed condi damage to kill anything they meet. The sustain in particular is how they win over time.

There are two builds; one is bunker-burst with incremental pop damage stages during huge sustain, which I think is what you're referring to, and the other is a wombo-combo build designed to specifically dumpster thieves 1v1 since it does a bit over 20k damage with Plasma+FA, which ignores stealth being a ranged channel skill, while similarly outputting blind to prevent a backstab.

Because it's a wombo burst build, it generally won't take down a Marauder necro with shroud up and decent reflexes.

It *CAN* be adapted in its playstyle to wreck necro by constantly forcing it to 0 LF and sustaining on its other attunements and kiting with superior mobility, however this actually requires the player to be good at ele.  Otherwise it'll die to a stiff breeze with skills like Spinal Shivers from range.

[XECOR.2814]

l2p issue

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

On 2/5/2022 at 6:38 PM, solemn.9670 said:

FA Scepter* weaver

Which is one niche build that can be easily countered unlike the vast majority of problem builds

You want to complain about weaver, complain about full cele barrier spam condi burn fire/arcane weaver. FA weaver is easy to counter if you spend some time figuring it out, cele fire weaver is just overpowered.

Cele weaver is not OP lmao. If you are a bunker build, sure you will stalemate them.  If not, just don't stand still. If they are full barrier spam they have no mobility. You can run away, run circles around them, etc. Also since they are Cele, their savage output isn't top tier which means if you have any sustain, combined with moving, they shouldn't be able to kill you. You just have to be ready to cleanse that burning occasionally.  Cele weaver is fantastic against players that refuse to play to its disadvantages... but that's every build. 

 

The builds that is runes of speed and the middle weaver master trait will have waaaayyy less barrier, which means easier to kill. 

The other thing is their healing involves an intricate combo of skills. Interrupt that, which is pretty easy, and they aren't healing as much. The other thing is they have only 1-2 stun breaks. Knock them down, especially when they try to heal, and punish them. Easy win. 

But in the end it is a bunker build and any bunker build, whether rev, engineer, ranger, or ele, are hard to kill... it's just not as bunkery and thus can do some damage. 

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by SlitheSlivier.1908

[jpsssss.7530]

As long as grenade satchel and deadeye exist, I'm super ok with spinal shivers...