EOD Release - General Nerf to Sustain Traits

[Obtena.7952]

Wow ... I guess we are getting hard pushed into a pseudo-holy trinity after all. I'm pretty surprised; many classes getting some sustain traits just gutted. I guess they really want to push Specter or adjust for the Jade Bot VIT boost?

Edited February 28, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

There's a joke in here somewhere about nerfing everyone down to Ele levels of survivability...  Anyway, I can sort-of understand why they did this.  It was always a weird bit of design how certain professions could take 1 or 2 traits and basically become immortal.  It trivialized gear choices and a lot of build craft by having one trait let you face tank a boss.

I'm just glad that I'm done with raids, because now I don't know what people will be doing for Qadim and QtP.  

[Tails.9372]

A-Net is really shooting themselves in the foot here. Killing of a lot of "training wheel" type effects is ultimately just going to make their "aspirational content" a lot less accessible for the average player.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Puck.3697]

well i did say this a while ago among one of our Conversations.

but u labelled it a Crystal ball theory. This became a very obvious thing at their very first EoD Teaser post regarding "5 man boons".

[Obtena.7952]

14 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

well i did say this a while ago among one of our Conversations.

but u labelled it a Crystal ball theory. This became a very obvious thing at their very first EoD Teaser post regarding "5 man boons".

You're going to have to remind me, because frankly, you and I said LOTS of things. I mean, I think my key beliefs about the game are still intact here ... so I don't know what you are actually referring to. I'm just surprised because these kinds of traits are there for enabling people to play the game at a casual level, which is a move away from the market this game has always targeted.  These nerfs don't actually have that big an impact in instanced content, which is the scope of our conversations.

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Mell.4873]

Just wait and see what they do, I suggested the 5 or 10 boon standardization along time ago and they finally implemented it which is nice. The sustain runes or traits where a little bit broken since you could avoid bringing any healing or damage reduction and just focus on damage.

[Stx.4857]

The problem with generalized nerfs is that not all these sustain effects were created equal.  For instance, Scrapper trait was basically the spec defining trait.  Now it's just a squishy glass water Pistol with one group Quickness option.  

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Stx.4857 said:

The problem with generalized nerfs is that not all these sustain effects were created equal.  For instance, Scrapper trait was basically the spec defining trait.  Now it's just a squishy glass water Pistol with one group Quickness option.  

Yeah I did find that one a bit weird, it's not like barrior is healing you. 

[Sunshine.5014]

2 hours ago, Stx.4857 said:

The problem with generalized nerfs is that not all these sustain effects were created equal.  For instance, Scrapper trait was basically the spec defining trait.  Now it's just a squishy glass water Pistol with one group Quickness option.  

10-target shout was how heal tempest get a slot in Raid before. It's nerfed to 5-target now. So I guess "welcome to Ele life"?

[Puck.3697]

10 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You're going to have to remind me, because frankly, you and I said LOTS of things. I mean, I think my key beliefs about the game are still intact here ... so I don't know what you are actually referring to. I'm just surprised because these kinds of traits are there for enabling people to play the game at a casual level, which is a move away from the market this game has always targeted.  These nerfs don't actually have that big an impact in instanced content, which is the scope of our conversations.

 

We had a conversation to weather Anet aknowledge "Roles". I stated the lack of "requirement" of roles was because the power creep being so high that bottom level comps were accomplishing content. 

You argued the game isn't intentionally balanced at all around roles and Anet don't aknowledge them and it's more a player problem  they are "enforced" among Mera pushers. 

And yes we did also talk about the market. 

I get your point. But the quaterly reports showed gw2 was on the brink of death, something had to change as once again was another catagory I predicted change in. 

Games here to make money, if it's not making enough money it's time to spice things up. 

And you are correct these aren't massively impactful on a grand scale. 

But remember we have more core and hot / pof nerfs coming in summer patch as Anet have promised us. 

Among further spread of quickness and alacrity providing from warrior and ranger. 

By the end of summer. I think you may find these do affect us on a much more grand scale. 

Anet have stated in their post, majority of their bigger changes and reverting of power creep has been postponed to summer patch as they ran out of time. They just dampened things down a touch for the launch to try reduce disparity. 

While you are correct in the factor I doubt Anet will make content impossible to do without "perfect comps" and "meta only choices". The concept of roles , providing boons etc etc most likely will feel more forced then they currently do. 

However I do think you underestimate the current changes alittle. For example epidemic in 100 cm was carrying groups it being nerfed into oblivion will defintly have a toll. 

And nerfs to group barrier and more defintly will hold its toll in CM mode 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[BobbyT.7192]

Not just class skills and traits, rune of tormenting took a nerf bat to the groin. Which is great, since I just bought a set last week 😞

[Puck.3697]

Just now, BobbyT.7192 said:

Not just class skills and traits, rune of tormenting took a nerf bat to the groin. Which is great, since I just bought a set last week 😞

It was heavily expected to happen sadly. 

Alot were saying hold off buying those runes for that reason. They were extremely overpowered 

Player sustain was becoming abit over the top and it's good Anet finally are doing something about this, but defintly does suck at the prices players were paying to get a hold of them. 

Defintly bad communication realistically, this should have been mentioned much earlier on 

[Avatara.1042]

Thank GOD they nerfed Sun and Moon Style.  It was dominating the game.

[Kuronca.4138]

Nerfing torment runes sucks, now I have to think instead of relax while playing.

 

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

7 hours ago, Avatara.1042 said:

Thank GOD they nerfed Sun and Moon Style.  It was dominating the game.

I know, it had warriors dominating PvP tournaments, soloing raid CMs, downing entire WvW zergs. It was just atrocious the amount of warriors you'd see rocking that OH dagger was just ridiculous.

[Sunshine.5014]

3 hours ago, Kuronca.4138 said:

Nerfing torment runes sucks, now I have to think instead of relax while playing.

 

Yah this sucks badly. I didn't have to look at my HP while playing Scourge/Rev/Mesmer before. Now I actually have to look at my HP. Like what is this? 

It's okay for Ele to always have to watch their HP. But they are the masochists. We elite gam3r deserves 1337 treatment! Why do you dare bringing us down to the filthy Ele level!!?!

[Kuma.1503]

9 minutes ago, Sunshine.5014 said:

Yah this sucks badly. I didn't have to look at my HP while playing Scourge/Rev/Mesmer before. Now I actually have to look at my HP. Like what is this? 

It's okay for Ele to always have to watch their HP. But they are the masochists. We elite gam3r deserves 1337 treatment! Why do you dare bringing us down to the filthy Ele level!!?!

We talking open world here? Because condi weaver is borderline immortal in OW, with great damage to boot. 

It definitly needed love in group content though, I don't think anyone was arguing with that. It does only dps, and get outclassed at its one job by the supports because of uptime issues. 

Which this nerf absolutely did not fix btw. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[ShadowKatt.6804]

[sigh]   yeah... my Renegade takes a lot more work now...  it had been my favorite character up until today.

 

I think I'll go play something else while all the build crafters come up with a new way to spec a fun, survivable character.

 

[Gibson.4036]

17 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

It was heavily expected to happen sadly. 

Alot were saying hold off buying those runes for that reason. They were extremely overpowered 

Player sustain was becoming abit over the top and it's good Anet finally are doing something about this, but defintly does suck at the prices players were paying to get a hold of them. 

Defintly bad communication realistically, this should have been mentioned much earlier on 

They could have tried a moderate nerf, too, instead of taking them from 80 to 0 in one patch.

[Shiyo.3578]

Sustain nerf is great. Maybe next expac they'll finally nerf perma 25 might / fury  with toms of quickness PoF specs?

  

6 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

They could have tried a moderate nerf, too, instead of taking them from 80 to 0 in one patch.

They can't because they only hire developers to work on this game every 3 years.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Shiyo.3578

[Puck.3697]

9 hours ago, ShadowKatt.6804 said:

[sigh]   yeah... my Renegade takes a lot more work now...  it had been my favorite character up until today.

 

I think I'll go play something else while all the build crafters come up with a new way to spec a fun, survivable character.

 

good luck i guess.

they didnt leave a single Survivability skill out in those nerfs. Torment Runes gone, Battle Scars Nerfed, Scourge and Scrappers Barrier Nerfed, Warrior Life leach nerfed.

I'll go as far as i trhink Celestial or trailblazer Weaver maybe the strongest option now and tbh as good as it is, it'll take alot of work with the quantity of buttons and more. although i guess DPS Shouldnt really have high sustain.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Shiyo.3578]

4 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I'll go as far as i trhink Celestial or trailblazer Weaver maybe the strongest option now and tbh as good as it is, it'll take alot of work with the quantity of buttons and more. although i guess DPS Shouldnt really have high sustain.

Weaver and holo are both busted. Perma 25 might, tons of sustain.  Holosmith gives itself 1-5k bariers from corona burst every ~8s and has perma fury + tons of quickness.

[Apolo.5942]

On 3/1/2022 at 12:52 AM, Daddy.8125 said:

 

I get your point. But the quaterly reports showed gw2 was on the brink of death, something had to change as once again was another catagory I predicted change in. 

 

Care to provide link about this?.

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, Apolo.5942 said:

Care to provide link about this?.

2:28 Onwards he shows the charts to do with GW2 Sales. and its Overall Trends from Quaterly to quaterly.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Diak Atoli.2085]

2 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

2:28 Onwards he shows the charts to do with GW2 Sales. and its Overall Trends from Quaterly to quaterly.

A 10 year old MMO with a nonexpansion-focused buy-to-play model has lower revenue that when it first started... Fascinating.

 

What's even more fascinating is the latest earnings release, which has GW2 revenue steadily increasing since Q4 2020, with Q4 2021earning 22b KRW. Doesn't really invoke a feeling of a dying game, personally.

 

On topic, I don't really think the nerfs are that significant. They will still provide a good deal of healing in OW, and in my personal experience Pylons deal enough damage to still remain healthy without a healer. I will say, the Untamed trait remaining at 10% felt a bit off, but then I remembered how much non-Soulbeast rangers suck at power damage...

Edited March 2, 2022 by Diak Atoli.2085