DO NOT nerf Dragon's End meta.

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

2 minutes ago, Caitybee.3614 said:

Everyone deserves a chance to participate and get the rewards, poor gear or not.

Everyone deserve a chance to not be trolled and get the rewards too.
I DO wholy agree that it shouldn't have to come to this bullying and/or forcing of people to leave though...
But at the same time, it honestly feels like ANet is condoning that trollish behavior... (even if they say against, we have to take the devs words with a grain of salt until proven otherwise it feels like).

[Melech.4308]

14 minutes ago, Caitybee.3614 said:

People were asking regulars to leave the map, or those who weren't properly equipped to their liking. Some were bullied out, and they offered to pay others to get them to leave so those with better gear/builds could come in. It shouldn't be like that, everyone deserves a chance to participate and get the rewards, poor gear or not.

I didn't realise it was that bad that people were paying others to leave.

[methozbbf.1928]

Just nerf it, no one care

[Necrosian.1359]

2 minutes ago, methozbbf.1928 said:

Just nerf it, no one care

Some sweaties do sadly.

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

Just now, methozbbf.1928 said:

Just nerf it, no one care

I just think that the devs should ask those that comprise the majority of the complaintifs for suggestion and try them out.

Others MMOs have PTS (Public Test Servers) Branches for those purposes, GW2 actual PTS for new stuff but seemingly is locked only for the ANet Gaming Partners, which is just a small scale of the playerbase, but practically almost all the Parnters have raided succesfully a full Legendary Armor of a few by now, which is not demographically well sampled.

Look at who has put so much time into the actual affect content to give yourself the statistics.

[Necrosian.1359]

Another try, another fail. Got to 60% with six mins remaining, everyone left that point, me included. Another 2 hours wasted. Worst part is the map was organized well, commander explained everything, we even managed to beat first wisp phase, but dps simply wasn't there.

 

I am now sure that this meta simply expects too much from open world event. Right now meta just breeds toxicity and frustration. It will be dead soon, maybe done once to get the turtle and then never again as it is too much for open world events where anyone can attend. No matter how many experience players gather the will always be new player there who don't know what to do and end up unintentionally griefing the rest.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Necrosian.1359

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

4 minutes ago, Necrosian.1359 said:

Another try, another fail. Got to 60% with six mins remaining, everyone left that point, me included. Another 2 hours wasted. Worst part is the map was organized well, commander explained everything, we even managed to beat first wisp phase, but dps simply wasn't there.

 

I am now sure that this meta simply expects too much from open world event. Right now meta just breeds toxicity and frustration. It will be dead soon, maybe done once to get the turtle and then never again as it is too much for open world events where anyone can attend. No matter how many experience players gather the will always be new player there who don't know what to do and end up unintentionally griefing the rest.

Just wait for the instanced version where we have to start to ask "Attempt Count" (a bit anti-kill proof here but... yeah) just to discern trolls and non-trolls... and unfortunately refusing people who have 0 attempts under their belts... this is the "Cycle" that is laid in front of us unless things "changes".

Edited March 4, 2022 by KurokouNekoki.7891

[Harddrive.2738]

Its broken as a open world event, 3 people in a 56+ fight screwed whole meta (it only takes 1). Made us waste 2-3min of fight than we lost while DPSing her at 3%. Most of the time it happens 2x and we never even get as low as 20%.
Pointless jumping game which makes no sense to fight theme. This isn't a raid.

[Skolarr.3962]

Dedicating my first post to this thread. 

The simple truth is that if one or two people can ruin a major meta event for 50+ other people (unintentionally or not), then its just simply bad game design. 

And its even worse game design when the main strategy your player base is adopting is to purposefully find ways to avoid doing the mechanic that a major NPC literally yells at them to do, because doing it would likely result in a failed meta. Simple as that. 

Nerf the Soo-Won fight, please and thank you. 

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

After a person in one of the DE squads I've been in mentioned they were in a squad requiring LI(lmao) I decided to sit around looking at LFG to see if it's just a joke or not. 
"Treat the fight as a Raid"
"Any KP"
And my personal favorite, "Raid KP Required"

So far I've seen less EoD Strikes with KP requirement than this meta. 

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

5 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

After a person in one of the DE squads I've been in mentioned they were in a squad requiring LI(lmao) I decided to sit around looking at LFG to see if it's just a joke or not. 
"Treat the fight as a Raid"
"Any KP"
And my personal favorite, "Raid KP Required"

So far I've seen less EoD Strikes with KP requirement than this meta. 

What KP?! Are we starting to count Turtle Eggs, now? 
Also who would be, sorry to say... but legit sane enough, to do this mess twice?!

Edited March 4, 2022 by KurokouNekoki.7891

[difens.1326]

I just realized that I need one other person to ride the turtle and actually shoot things. So it's even more pointless for me to try this event now. I'll wait a couple of months and do it once when it will be faceroll. Spirit  shards are not a problem, can get plenty in WvW if needed.

[Elimyx.4536]

Yeah, no. I'm with everyone else who's given up on this meta - it's not that it's hard, because hard can be fun! But it's awful to spend 2+ hours with a perfect squad that did everything right... only to recieve bupkis at the end because one person screwed it up, or the boss decided to spam the bubble/dash combo roughly ten times in a row (and no, that's not an exaggeration! I counted!). Plus, in most other "hard" content, if you fail - you can charge right back into it once you're ready. Here? Go wait for an hour, and grind up your stupid participation badge all over again, just so you can earn the chance to find out if the boss hates you today.

 

Hard can be fun when you go into it with a team of likeminded people, knowing you'll need to practice to succeed. But an open-world, free-for-all meta that is one half of the expansion (and ten-year story arc!)'s ending is not a place for this kind of hard.

[Kumbaya.4689]

4 hours ago, Caitybee.3614 said:

People were asking regulars to leave the map, or those who weren't properly equipped to their liking. Some were bullied out, and they offered to pay others to get them to leave so those with better gear/builds could come in. It shouldn't be like that, everyone deserves a chance to participate and get the rewards, poor gear or not.

@Anet, Please just fix this event. Nerfing its mechanics or adding extra time, doesn't matter. Just fix it!

Edited March 4, 2022 by linamaria.1830
Typonese

[DragonMoon.6098]

3 hours ago, KurokouNekoki.7891 said:

Just wait for the instanced version where we have to start to ask "Attempt Count" (a bit anti-kill proof here but... yeah) just to discern trolls and non-trolls... and unfortunately refusing people who have 0 attempts under their belts... this is the "Cycle" that is laid in front of us unless things "changes".

If that is the attitude that people take, how are players supposed to gain the experience to learn the mechanics of the fight? I still haven't gotten that far in the expansion yet...I'm doing the story first...but the toxicity I'm reading about is very disheartening. Closing groups for private dungeons or raids or fractals is one thing, but this is a public map...people have no right to turn casuals away or worse, kick them out or grief on them. ANet needs to fix this, because an entire map shouldn't be able to fail because of one or two people. That right there is creating this gatekeeping issue, and it's going to drive the bread and butter players away...because you know the elitist snobs are not the bread and butter of these games. Casuals are. 

At this point I'm super glad I'm in no hurry to get the turtle because I personally think it's unwieldy and ugly af...but there will come a time when I want to check the achievement off as done. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by DragonMoon.6098

[DragonMoon.6098]

2 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

After a person in one of the DE squads I've been in mentioned they were in a squad requiring LI(lmao) I decided to sit around looking at LFG to see if it's just a joke or not. 
"Treat the fight as a Raid"
"Any KP"
And my personal favorite, "Raid KP Required"

So far I've seen less EoD Strikes with KP requirement than this meta. 

What is "KP" and what is "LI"?

[Necrosian.1359]

1 minute ago, DragonMoon.6098 said:

What is "KP" and what is "LI"?

KP = Kill proof ( items that drop drops from raids, used to see how many you have done)

LI = Legendary insights (Same as above)

[Erise.5614]

2 minutes ago, DragonMoon.6098 said:

What is "KP" and what is "LI"?

KP = Kill Proof = An item you receive for killing exceptionally hard bosses like raids.

LI = Legendary Insights = Proof you have played a lot of raids

[DragonMoon.6098]

9 minutes ago, Necrosian.1359 said:

KP = Kill proof ( items that drop drops from raids, used to see how many you have done)

LI = Legendary insights (Same as above)

 

8 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

KP = Kill Proof = An item you receive for killing exceptionally hard bosses like raids.

LI = Legendary Insights = Proof you have played a lot of raids

Thanks!

And that level of gatekeeping has no place on a public map. People who don't raid and have no interest in raiding have every bit as much right to be in and participate in a public map meta chain as anyone else. ANet needs to fix this. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by DragonMoon.6098

[Teratus.2859]

15 hours ago, Zawnius.6421 said:

End of Dragons was clearly designed for casual/newer players,

No it wasn't, although it most certainly advertised itself to them and threw them in the deep end.

Most of End of Dragons content including the story and open world metas were absolutely designed around experienced players.

And by that I don't mean top tier DPS meta's, although I will admit there are a few sponges out there.
I mean mechanically this content is designed for players who at least know how basic combat works in the game and very familiar with common mechanics.

There are no big fights both in the open world and in story that you can casually cheese like you have been able to in most of the content released over the last 10 years.

This is one reason why I do not recommend new players jump straight into EoD content, and why I criticize Anet for putting all these useful new tutorials exclusively in EoD when they should be in the core game where the new players should be starting their adventures.

[castlemanic.3198]

yeah just did it and failed again. this meta wasn't designed with casual players in mind and it's utterly baffling that arenanet thought this would be the perfect way to end EoD. on top of that the turtle is locked behind a successful compeltion of this meta event and that wasn't a good idea.

 

Arenanet please nerf this hard. this is extremely badly designed and wasn't well thought through.

[Teratus.2859]

5 hours ago, Melech.4308 said:

I didn't realise it was that bad that people were paying others to leave.

It doesn't surprise me tbh..

That kind of elitism is completely unjustified and if it becomes common it will only kill this content in the long run, just like it did to raids.

[Melech.4308]

5 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said:

It doesn't surprise me tbh..

That kind of elitism is completely unjustified and if it becomes common it will only kill this content in the long run, just like it did to raids.

I don't think it killed raids at all. I raid every week and as long as you can show KP and do the mechanics in raids it's fine. We all want to succeed but if one person can't do the mechanics then of course the com will kick them out of the raids.

[Erise.5614]

3 minutes ago, Melech.4308 said:

I don't think it killed raids at all. I raid every week and as long as you can show KP and do the mechanics in raids it's fine. We all want to succeed but if one person can't do the mechanics then of course the com will kick them out of the raids.

It's not dead in the sense that no one does it anymore.

But it's dead in the sense that it's not worth supporting further because too few people ever engaged with the content. 

And, with all due respect, it sounds like you've been running raids for a really, really long time. The onboarding experience is dreadful as an inexperienced player. Even training groups expect you to know exactly how to play the game and assume you only need to vaguely be told what the unique mechanics of the boss are.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Melech.4308]

5 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

It's not dead in the sense that no one does it anymore.

But it's dead in the sense that it's not worth supporting further because too few people ever engaged with the content. 

And, with all due respect, it sounds like you've been running raids for a really, really long time. The onboarding experience is dreadful as an inexperienced player. Even training groups expect you to know exactly how to play the game and assume you only need to vaguely be told what the unique mechanics of the boss are.

That's true, I have been doing raids for a long time. I already have all 3 legendary armor sets from raids and I still raid weekly. Why? because it's fun for me. Regarding the training groups, at least in my case when I was starting out (The Crossroads Inn trained me), they only require that you have proper gear with the correct stats, They understand you're new, so they train you with the mechanics of raid bosses. Raids were never meant to be beginner friendly.

With that said, back to Dragon's End meta. I don't agree with trying to gate-keep a public map. No commander on a public map can ever kick someone out (and if I were inexperienced and they wanted to pay me to get out, I would really take advantage of that, but I digress). However, beginner players who don't know the basic mechanics and signs (red aoe = avoid or dodge/evade, green aoe = go there, etc) are not contributing as well. It's much better to learn first the mechanics which are taught by the way in Seitung Province, in the training grounds, practice it, master it, and then try the meta. Again, this is not about gear, but about doing mechanics.

What I do not want Anet to do is nerf the meta so that the meta succeeds just by using auto-attack chains, a little bit of moving to the left or right, and then that's it. That's not proper end-game content (at least for me). Another thing (and this is my own opinion and very subjective) is that nerfing a meta is kind of insulting as well; it's like saying that people aren't capable of having the brains to make themselves better and learning from their mistakes and failures. I don't believe that and I certainly do not think that that is reflective of the GW2 players.