DO NOT nerf Dragon's End meta.

[Xorthos.6947]

3 hours ago, ListenToMe.5130 said:

someone correct me if I'm wrong here... all people need to do is stand in the green circles to prevent a wipe, right? is that hard? no. last night the commander told people to skip the greens because the other mechanic is supposedly too punishing, hahaha. it ended in failure (a few people went into the green and wiped us). i don't blame the commander though. the community can't do simple things. not many would survive long in lost ark raids where you actually need to dodge and complete mechanics.

 

So I'll clarify this to the best of my understanding after 11 failed attempts.  (I may be mistaken, this is just from personal experience)

 

The intended mechanic for the event is for everyone to stand in greens.   When she slams down, one person in each green circle will be blasted out of their bodies and down to the ground.  It will leave a crystal in their place (to protect the raid from the wave).   These people should be rushing back to the top with the jump mechanic, ASAP.  If you're nearly flawless you can get back up in about 30 seconds.   The folks that were not ported down need to kill adds ASAP, primarily the large elites (They have insane CC mortars on the group, so if you're getting knocked down constantly during that phase, they're what is doing it).  Most people were just setting portable waypoints and cheesing the wisp mechanic (now removed).  When the wisped people get back up to the top, they get a temporary damage buff and the phase progresses.

The trouble with this strategy, is there is a 2 minute phase where you cannot damage the boss while the people are coming back up.   Optimally this phase ends in 30 seconds or so with everyone being successful.   Unfortunately, this mechanic pretty much NEVER succeeds due to 1-2 people not knowing the mechanic, or just not being able to do it properly.   Some people are also actively taking greens and trolling the maps.   When this happens, that 2 minute phase goes to full completion, wasting 2 minutes of the boss.    There are two of these phases, so ~4 total minutes.   That is a ton of wasted time on an already extremely tight DPS check event.

As an alternative, people have opted to completely avoid greens.  When this happens, everyone will be killed during the slam.   The upside of this, is people can instantly waypoint and glide back down, beginning the next phase.  With the current state of this meta, it's unfortunate that the only two ways to win are to have a pre-made group and try to get any randoms out of the map, or to completely do the opposite of the intended strategy, as attempting the mechanic and having someone fail will pretty much always end in a meta failure.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Xorthos.6947

[Xero the Dark.8230]

I don't even want the turtle anymore at this point. This is a mess. Forget the turtle mount.  If they fix it, they fix it. MAYBE I'll do it then. Until then, forget it. 

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

1 hour ago, Melech.4308 said:

So now people don't need to worry about trolls also going into greens.

Well NOW we have to worry about troll not going into Green!
This has solved nothing except cutting us a lifeline.

[Sylvi.8372]

I’m just gonna ignore the EoD metas for 2 weeks to a month. Hopefully by then its nerfed, fixed, or has some viable strat.

 

I’ll be on a work trip anyway (if it pushes through). Wasting hours of our life on several failed metas (with a ton of factors beyond the player’s control) just isn’t worth it.

———————

 

(No matter how good the team was - raid level organization, it only took a few lost or lagged people on map to fail it for everyone.

 

But this isn’t instanced like Dragonstorm where we can run private squads and do raid training with the same people so they can learn/improve together.)

[Sylvi.8372]

Random thought: what if the number of people has an effect on the boss’ scaling?

 

It might be disproportionately harder with too many on the meta.

[mythical.6315]

This is all so typical though.  Every expansion they have always had a meta that's annoying like this.  Every time they drag their feet on resolving it.  They could do something as easy easy as adding more timer to the timer but no.  Instead they patch out one of the things which was allowing players to get completions on this poorly designed meta.  I can guarantee you that we're going to see the exact same thing with the next expansion and it doesn't get resolved for over a week or perhaps longer.

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

2 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

This is all so typical though.  Every expansion they have always had a meta that's annoying like this.  Every time they drag their feet on resolving it.  They could do something as easy easy as adding more timer to the timer but no.  Instead they patch out one of the things which was allowing players to get completions on this poorly designed meta.  I can guarantee you that we're going to see the exact same thing with the next expansion and it doesn't get resolved for over a week or perhaps longer.

As stated previously (and I absolutely do not want to protect more than they need to; and because I also wish for a change) but timer increase would lead to reducing the timer somewhere else (hopefully in the 3 minutes blabber about Logan being Air Pirating in the void) due to the time framing of the whole 2-hours day cycle.
The change has to be somewhere else.

[Jcyph.2407]

After my 8th attempt and fail at this meta event in squads that coordinated and literally hurting my wrist pumping out numbers, getting the pre buffs to 10% and all the jade bot buffs, doing 1 green person and everything I have still failed the map. Its so dumb to have a meta event fail because of a timer rather than not doing mechanics. I thought the message going forward was, do the mechanics or die, not skip mechanics so you can dps faster? Im not doing this anymore until this is fixed. Locking content we paid for behind a meta event that from what I've seen has a 90% fail rate is absurd.

[mythical.6315]

14 minutes ago, KurokouNekoki.7891 said:

As stated previously (and I absolutely do not want to protect more than they need to; and because I also wish for a change) but timer increase would lead to reducing the timer somewhere else (hopefully in the 3 minutes blabber about Logan being Air Pirating in the void) due to the time framing of the whole 2-hours day cycle.
The change has to be somewhere else.

 

DS can go past the two hours I believe if you hit the boss phase before the timer hits zero.  The instance also closes so it's not like it matters if it goes over.

Edited March 4, 2022 by mythical.6315

[Xorthos.6947]

This meta right now is basically the equivalent of doing South and North drizzlewood, without the participation chests, and then the final boss being almost impossible.

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

4 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

DS can go past the two hours I believe if you hit the boss phase before the timer hits zero.  The instance also closes so it's not like it matters if it goes over.

That's fair, I hadn't kept DS in mind.

[Slartibartfast.5416]

People have learned the fight by now.   Or at least, they know what happens.  Being forced to pug Dragon's End meta reminds me why I'd rather kitten with a cheese grater than be forced to pug content.

 

All I want is the turtle. That's pretty much it.  I made a turtle guild before EoD in anticipation.  I didn't know they'd hide turtles behind 2 hour content that forces you to pug and hope for the best.  Hoping that there are more people who know what they're doing than noobs.  After failing this meta 15-20 times, this stopped being "fun" a long time ago.

 

Good for you, OP. You enjoy this kind of content.  For me, the focus is on the kitten turtle.  The content is just in my way.  I'm ignoring all other content in this game until I get that kitten turtle.  And once I do, I don't think I'll ever be back to Dragon's End voluntarily.  If the turtle wasn't locked behind it, I'd probably be fine with the zone.  Now I actively dislike it.

[Heibi.4251]

I'd love to keep trying the META if it wasn't for the fact that they locked the new mount behind it. That makes me only want to succeed only once. After that - goodbye META. I'm sure this is what the vast majority are starting to think - "Why should I waste any time on a META that was forced on me after I get the turtle mount?"  

 

I could enjoy it if it wasn't for the mount. Then it would be more of a challenge. Right now it is more frustration.

[Xorthos.6947]

1 hour ago, Chrysline.2317 said:

Random thought: what if the number of people has an effect on the boss’ scaling?

 

It might be disproportionately harder with too many on the meta.

I do know the scaling is tremendously harsh on these meta events.  IE:  Jade Maw.

 

But I also noticed on the meta, when the east and west groups splits into the north and south champion kills.   There were about 15-20 people at each one except the one I was at.  We had 4 people there, and finished twice as fast as the other 3 groups with ~15 people.     So scaling could most definitely be an issue.     I'm not sure about the final boss, as the maps are always full when we get to it.

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

18 minutes ago, Heibi.4251 said:

I'd love to keep trying the META if it wasn't for the fact that they locked the new mount behind it. That makes me only want to succeed only once. After that - goodbye META. I'm sure this is what the vast majority are starting to think - "Why should I waste any time on a META that was forced on me after I get the turtle mount?"  

 

I could enjoy it if it wasn't for the mount. Then it would be more of a challenge. Right now it is more frustration.

Ironically something I learned today was that you have to redo parts of the META a second time for the Turtle Collections. Which is honestly just a slap in the face.

Edited March 4, 2022 by KurokouNekoki.7891

[Heibi.4251]

1 minute ago, KurokouNekoki.7891 said:

Ironically something I learned today was that you have to redo parts of the META a second time for the Turtle Collections. Which is honestly just a slap in the face.

Quite sad that ANET decided on this course of action. One would hope that they actually are reading the forums. But since no one on Reddit is complaining, apparently, we'll all have do without one of the key parts of the expansion we PAID for.

[Caitybee.3614]

3 hours ago, Melech.4308 said:

I agree, don't nerf the meta and let people learn the mechanics. Give them some time. It's good that Anet took out the skipping greens part during the last patch, so now you need to learn the mechanics, so now people don't need to worry about trolls also going into greens. Yes the meta is hard and yes it's frustrating but at the end of the day it's worth it.

Not doing the meta then until they actually nerf it. I can see this becoming a major issue between people not wanting to take on regular players simply because "they don't have the right class or gear/build". Gear is expensive, and not everyone knows how to earn the gold to fully pay for said gear. This will lead to people being kicked out, sometimes forcefully, and could lead to a lot more ugly things between players. Especially the ones who think "you have to get good" is a good piece of advice.

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

3 minutes ago, Heibi.4251 said:

Quite sad that ANET decided on this course of action. One would hope that they actually are reading the forums. But since no one on Reddit is complaining, apparently, we'll all have do without one of the key parts of the expansion we PAID for.

Is because we all know better than try to use Reddit as a reach out to the devs, which also has a moderation probably even more strict than here, and because the only Sub-Reddit that is worth its salt is the GW2Exchange.

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

3 minutes ago, Caitybee.3614 said:

Not doing the meta then until they actually nerf it. I can see this becoming a major issue between people not wanting to take on regular players simply because "they don't have the right class or gear/build". Gear is expensive, and not everyone knows how to earn the gold to fully pay for said gear. This will lead to people being kicked out, sometimes forcefully, and could lead to a lot more ugly things between players. Especially the ones who think "you have to get good" is a good piece of advice.

Exactly... ANet tried to push the idea of "No more Toxicity" but the facts are there, if you don't to "rebalance" the event we will be forced to use a bit more strict weeding out to see an actual even remote slight chance on succeeding (which as you know is against ANet CoC, which leave us with nothing but the sign that they are okay with us being ripped out of our efforts).

Also they have completely remained silent about the issue (nice communication, devs; only communication is about patching the less meaningful issues). This topic is one of the most active as of right now. The least they can do is not ignoring it, like they seem to do on Twitter.

Edited March 4, 2022 by KurokouNekoki.7891

[CharJC.8365]

Reading ten pages on something I just stumbled onto, I can say this... I haven't even gotten to the last map or even tried the meta, but if it is going like this, kitten with it.  Being in the military I don't have all the time in the world (specially now), to RNG my way to a mount or even success for a meta event.  Shame too, I wanted the turtle so me and my SO could mess about on the little bit of time I have.

Edited March 4, 2022 by CharJC.8365

[arawulf.5210]

First of all, grats to those of you that have your Siege Turtle. This is not about difficulty at all - no expectation of difficulty was communicated. However, the length of time to get the turtle was communicated and the community was led to believe that the time required was on par with the Roller Beetle (this article specifically). The current state of the game is making this article currently coming across as misinformation, which is never good - especially leading up to a major release. 

What needs to happen is something needs to be said about how that article was incorrect or the mechanics need to be changed to meet the previous expectations Anet gave the community. Right now, we're dealing with unmet expectations so the frustration is understandable. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by arawulf.5210
grammar

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

8 minutes ago, arawulf.5210 said:

First of all, grats to those of you that have your Siege Turtle. This is not about difficulty at all - no expectation of difficulty was communicated. However, the length of time to get the turtle was communicated and the community was led to believe that the time required was on par with the Roller Beetle (this article specifically). The current state of the game is making this article currently coming across as misinformation, which is never good - especially leading up to a major release. 

What needs to happen is something needs to be said about how that article was incorrect or the mechanics need to be changed to meet the previous expectations Anet gave the community. Right now, we're dealing with unmet expectations so the frustration is understandable. 

PC Gamer, is becoming a clickbait news site (apparently).

[Atria.6729]

8 failed tries, not as many as some of the people here, yet enough to quit this meta. As many others here, doing it just for turtle and honstly at this point I care less and less. Had a few free days, tried to rush it, now it's exam time and I won't have as much time so no turtle for me I guess, at least not until they fix this nightmare.

At this point it's not about "learning the meta", most people in my groups know it by now. We even had a group where commander separated us in 5 people subgroups (boons) and asked each group if they know what they are doing, etc. People get the 10 stack map bonus, jade tech offence and deffence bonuses, all. We even succeded green phase once! Second green was a fail though and between this and boss constantly jumping around the arena, time for actual dps is too short. After all these attempts I think that tail getting back up and boss moving around is happening a bit too often (random to some extent?), sometimes after killing the tail it's around 30s and it's back up, while these 30s are wasted because boss just jumps all over and we are left running in circles in stead of actually doing any real dmg.

After the last patch (no more personal waypoint on wisps) it is even easier for trolls/unexperienced players to fail a whole 2h meta. I was lucky enough to understand fairly quickly what to do as a wisp to get back, succes, wooo. But many people don't. On this phase a pop-up with "use memory orbs to jump back to the top" or sth like this would deffinitelly help to eliminate the element of "I don't know what now".

So yeah, less "no dps time" (boss being more stationary, less often tail part) and clearer made wisp phase would deffinitelly help this.

EDIT:

Ah, also saw a good idea with timer stop, simmilar to Tequatl. When the wisp phase starts or when we fight lege on islands the main boss timar could stop, we do mechanics, timer resumes afterwards. That would also eliminate trolls taking away time on wisps phase.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Atria.6729

[Melech.4308]

25 minutes ago, Caitybee.3614 said:

Not doing the meta then until they actually nerf it. I can see this becoming a major issue between people not wanting to take on regular players simply because "they don't have the right class or gear/build". Gear is expensive, and not everyone knows how to earn the gold to fully pay for said gear. This will lead to people being kicked out, sometimes forcefully, and could lead to a lot more ugly things between players. Especially the ones who think "you have to get good" is a good piece of advice.

It's not about having the right equipment or gear, but about actually learning the mechanics of the meta. I'm sure people would prefer you to have exotic gear and know the mechanics of the meta rather than someone with full legendaries but now know what to do.

 

Also...how can you be kicked out of a public map?

[Caitybee.3614]

5 minutes ago, Melech.4308 said:

It's not about having the right equipment or gear, but about actually learning the mechanics of the meta. I'm sure people would prefer you to have exotic gear and know the mechanics of the meta rather than someone with full legendaries but now know what to do.

 

Also...how can you be kicked out of a public map?

People were asking regulars to leave the map, or those who weren't properly equipped to their liking. Some were bullied out, and they offered to pay others to get them to leave so those with better gear/builds could come in. It shouldn't be like that, everyone deserves a chance to participate and get the rewards, poor gear or not.