Why do you expect so much from people in Dragon's End meta?!?! [Merged]

[inaho.2046]

3 minutes ago, Laughing Bat.1570 said:

My quick fix, keep the difficulty as is. Let players get a turtle egg from the hatchery without any relation to the meta. Drop sellable legendaries for beating the meta.  

THIS ANET! SO MUCH THIS! 

[yourexcellency.1458]

40 minutes ago, Laughing Bat.1570 said:

Best thing you can do now is just not play. This is crazy hard because they want it to be something players keep doing. Doesn't matter how angry you are while doing it. If it looks like it is actually causing players to leave, they'll start trying to fix it.

 

Never thought a new Guild Wars expansion would cause me to just go play old Monster Hunter but here we are. 😕

Yep exactly! I give up. A bunch of other games have dropped this month that I'd like to play so I'll be off doing that. I'll pop back into GW2 for my weekly pve raid with my guild and some wvw maybe but beyond that I'm done. I was really enjoying this expansion but walling off an entire mastery line behind this event has soured me on the whole thing.

[Caitybee.3614]

6 minutes ago, yourexcellency.1458 said:

Yep exactly! I give up. A bunch of other games have dropped this month that I'd like to play so I'll be off doing that. I'll pop back into GW2 for my weekly pve raid with my guild and some wvw maybe but beyond that I'm done. I was really enjoying this expansion but walling off an entire mastery line behind this event has soured me on the whole thing.

It's sad that for some it has come to this; making them want to outright leave the game. I feel for you and others, and I myself wish something would be changed to make successful runs easier to achieve - even if it's increased only just barely enough, it would be better than nothing. I'm also waiting, but I will probably pop in once in a while to see if we can succeed. I know the chance of failure is high, but I enjoy the meta itself, it's fun and refreshing compared to other content.

[LucianDK.8615]

A guildmate just told me they got into a meta done by Mighty Teapot and their Hardstuck guild, they finished it with 6m to spare. I am o_O at hearing that. And now he is eagerly diving into the turtle collections.

Edited March 5, 2022 by LucianDK.8615

[Mark.2068]

must be fixed yet

[vincent.5962]

An nice fix on the boss of this meta could be to enforce cc bars at 95 and 55%, the rest of the fight is tuned nicely.

Saying that as I was in a complete squad on vocal, every group optimized for boons. We got to 7%. The problem? No cc bar between 80% to 0%.

[Anjo.3170]

7 minutes ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

A guildmate just told me they got into a meta done by Mighty Teapot and their Hardstuck guild, they finished it with 6m to spare. I am o_O at hearing that. And now he is eagerly diving into the turtle collections.

Thats not because they are anything special,  they got a good rng roll for that run.  Just did a run with a good group, and we had 1 break bar and 4 platform swooshes in a row.  

[Ignavia.7420]

The mechanics of the fight can now at least no longer be griefed as badly as before, though it's still possible. The timer is really tight for an open world event, but whatever. The RNG, however, is just aggravating:

• The difference between getting the tail or a breakbar is insane
• Even if you break the breakbar she can dash around or go otherwise invulnerable
• During the green circle phase the damage buff can be applied to the wrong people (e.g.  support), wasting it almost completely.

 

Meanwhile, you need to prepare the map, maintain your buff, run the escort phase, and spend overall around 2 hours per good try. And if you fail you get nothing? Marionette is already almost a dead meta because people find it difficult and there are no worthwhile rewards for the time invested. This boss is much harder, takes much longer, and rewards even less. Good luck finding people for this once they either got the turtle or the turtle can be acquired through alternate means. This is really unfortunate, since a lot of work and love has clearly gone into this map and its meta event.

Edit: I just did another run, which will be my last until this is fixed. We had two tails from 80-60%, with a breakbar while the tail was up and another breakbar at 62% (super useful). From 40-20% we had no breakbars, but three tails, while the boss kept changing side when the tail was not up. I'm all for some difficult content, even in the open world, but this is completely unfair.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Ignavia.7420

[Alaia Skyhawk.5064]

Anet, the changes you made already have helped, but it's still not enough!

Now instead of fights consistently failing between 20-40% health left, they are consistently failing with 5-10% left which in a way is even more frustrating. Just lower the darn health scaling on the boss, or dramatically increase the cooldown on her swoosh/dash across the platform and on her tail so she doesn't do they several times in a row wrecking all possible chance to dps her. And just get rid of the whirlpools completely because right now they're just a complete outright troll towards the players since breaking the bars on the things is basically impossible before the player inside them dies, and the players wasted all that time they could have been damaging the boss.

I've attempted this meta 14 times now, for an average of an hour and 30 minutes taken up by it. Thats 21 HOURS of time wasted due to the meta being hidiously over-tuned and having horrific RNG on her attacks/position switching.

I'm officially giving up on ever getting my seige turtle until SUBSTANTIAL changes are made to this meta's insane difficulty. It's literally an openworld raid at its current state. You get no rewards at any point during the meta itself (come-on would it hurt to give us reward chests when we capture the outposts and when we succeed at the central pylons?) Literally people are going to do it to get the turtle then forget it even exists. Never ever in this game before this has an openworld meta driven me to such levels of frustration that it's bordering on rage. Where's your design phylosophy, Anet? The one where things are supposed to be fun instead of a chore??? Where you're rewarded for your time investment, instead of sinking 1.5-2 hours into a map zone for a meta and come away with basically nothing?

Apologies to anyone here for the rant, but I'm sure a lot of you here understand it and the serious need to vent.

[Caitybee.3614]

29 minutes ago, Alaia Skyhawk.5064 said:

Anet, the changes you made already have helped, but it's still not enough!

Now instead of fights consistently failing between 20-40% health left, they are consistently failing with 5-10% left which in a way is even more frustrating. Just lower the darn health scaling on the boss, or dramatically increase the cooldown on her swoosh/dash across the platform and on her tail so she doesn't do they several times in a row wrecking all possible chance to dps her. And just get rid of the whirlpools completely because right now they're just a complete outright troll towards the players since breaking the bars on the things is basically impossible before the player inside them dies, and the players wasted all that time they could have been damaging the boss.

I've attempted this meta 14 times now, for an average of an hour and 30 minutes taken up by it. Thats 21 HOURS of time wasted due to the meta being hidiously over-tuned and having horrific RNG on her attacks/position switching.

I'm officially giving up on ever getting my seige turtle until SUBSTANTIAL changes are made to this meta's insane difficulty. It's literally an openworld raid at its current state. You get no rewards at any point during the meta itself (come-on would it hurt to give us reward chests when we capture the outposts and when we succeed at the central pylons?) Literally people are going to do it to get the turtle then forget it even exists. Never ever in this game before this has an openworld meta driven me to such levels of frustration that it's bordering on rage. Where's your design phylosophy, Anet? The one where things are supposed to be fun instead of a chore??? Where you're rewarded for your time investment, instead of sinking 1.5-2 hours into a map zone for a meta and come away with basically nothing?

Apologies to anyone here for the rant, but I'm sure a lot of you here understand it and the serious need to vent.

I have a legitimate question for the mechanics. When you deal damage to Soo-Won's hand, is the tail also present on the opposite side of the arena at the same time? I was just wondering if that was the case, if both are suppose to be damaged at the same time. Just me thinking about the meta, but I wanted to see for myself on the next run I try.

[Alaia Skyhawk.5064]

1 minute ago, Caitybee.3614 said:

I have a legitimate question for the mechanics. When you deal damage to Soo-Won's hand, is the tail also present on the opposite side of the arena at the same time? I was just wondering if that was the case, if both are suppose to be damaged at the same time. Just me thinking about the meta, but I wanted to see for myself on the next run I try.

The tail only becomes targetable when RNG decides she's going to start bubbling/whirlpooling people, and burning it down doesn't appear to do any damage to the main healthbar at all. But if you don't get rid of the tail, she keeps bubbling people which costs dps.

[Caitybee.3614]

Just now, Alaia Skyhawk.5064 said:

The tail only becomes targetable when RNG decides she's going to start bubbling/whirlpooling people, and burning it down doesn't appear to do any damage to the main healthbar at all. But if you don't get rid of the tail, she keeps bubbling people which costs dps.

Ah ok, makes it more difficult to run back and forth but from my last run pretty much everyone knew when to run across the arena to the tail, though some stayed back at her hand.

[PaladinVII.1647]

I just tried it with an organized discord group. We got it to 10% then she swept left to right multiple times preventing us from dps. Beating the boss is RNG locked with no margin of error to get said RNG. Whoever tested this should be sacked.

[Hotride.2187]

OK, so I did the meta again and I got: 1 rare, 36 masterwork, 11 fine uid gear drops. Some resources (pitiful amounts) also. About 600-700k exp. The group got the boss to 15%.

So ugh, a lot is expected from the players, but the players get nothing in return? Can't wait for this to be the deadest map after the majority of players get the turtle. Pity, as the last 20 min of the 2 hours are actually a lot of fun.

Also comparing this to a raid is just dumb - in a raid you restart the encounter after you fail, you don't do an hour and a half pre-events...

So overall, you failed successfully? You made something extremely fun, but put it after a ton of unrewarding and tedious events. Stunning work!

[subgenius.7649]

Who at Arenanet thought putting RNG mechanics into the Dragons End Meta was a good idea? 1.5 hours of prep to get screwed by random chance of Mechanics is BS. I have done this event roughly 15-20 times and every time the mechanics happen at different times or not at all. TAIL needs to be set timed, CC phase needs to be set time. This is the stupidest thing. Also get rid of the stupid waste of time wisp phases...

[CollegeReject.3746]

Difficulty aside, this meta is EXTREMELY LAGGY. WvW and other map-wide metas are fine because players are spread out, but Dragon Fall has all 50+ players doing max DPS on the center platform PLUS all the enemies. My client doesn't even gender greens and only sometimes renders the slam attack.

[Zephire.8049]

7 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

In the PvE open world Anets principle was ad-hoc cooperation with other players and  the design goal of the game in open world was "you should always be happy to see other players". Its seems this finally also ended in Dragons End.

This is one of my complaints as well: The fight encourages selfish play.

• If people are downed, you don't want to res them because that means you do less DPS.
• If people are in bubbles, you ignore them the moment you're in range of the tail.
• People in whirlpools are on their own and the advice I've seen about this is to just let yourself die to get back to the fight faster.
• Groups discourage playing support unless you're a specific build of a specific class.
• On the split phase, use the special action jump to get off the platform to heal even though it takes you out of the fight and people are getting downed.
• Again, never pause to res someone who's downed (not dead) because that costs you precious DPS time.
• If you do pause to res someone anyway, depending on the phase, you're gonna die as well because you'll be hit by AOE and can't dodge or heal while you're reviving someone.

Changing the wisp phase helps some but the "challenge" still comes from a combination of RNG mechanics, fighting to do the opposite of what the game has taught players for 9+ years, and in general getting frustrated when people don't realize there wasn't a pause between tail phases so are attacking her head since the last tail phase literally just ended.

Also people in chat being a downer and chat afterward being full of frustrated players.

[Cloudz.6890]

I managed to beat it a second time last night with 7 seconds left. From 15%-0 she went into like 3 tail phases and swoops. DPS was never an issue until we literally couldn't attack or she had dmg reduction. Break bars went down in an instant. I've been playing MMOs since GW1. I have never seen a boss with so much RNG that it can make or break even the most prepared groups.

The rewards aren't even worth subsequent completions. Just like other dragon meta events you get 5 Memory of Aurene. The other chests are basically normal and just drop the standard loot with a chance for Saltspray weapons. Once people get their turtles there's 0 reasons to do it again. Even if there's some rare drop, the meta is so arduous that it's not worth it for the vast majority of players.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Cloudz.6890

[Kelly.7019]

all the issues aside. the meta needs to be extended by 2 mins. more would complete it and not go insane trying to.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Kelly.7019

[Starseer.1047]

23 hours ago, Starseer.1047 said:

Learning this fight is very much like learning PvE raid fights. I've never been in a group that's actually won yet--The closest I've gotten maybe thrice is 20% (this is pre-midday patch 3/4 CST)--but as I am someone who actively enjoys learning raid fights, I am enjoying myself and actively feel like I--and my team--am improving and believe that victory is within our grasp. The only time I actually felt angry with this meta was when I waited hours for it to start again, only for an escort NPC to bug and instantly ruin the entire meta.

 

However, there are people who avoid PvE raiding for a reason, and that added to how the siege turtle is locked behind this meta causes a bit of a problem, I feel. I'm mostly having a good time, but every time a map fails a LOT of people are VERY angry in map chat.

Post-midday 3/4 CST patch, I got my first win! It was also my first time doing greens--and becoming a wisp--and I and the other wisps were able to complete our task without much issue. Now, this was with a group of mostly guildmates led by an experienced and competent commander (and lts); most people already knew how the encounter worked well enough, and the commander provided ample instructions and map markers. And even so, after reset with the same group, same commander, same everything, we failed the next meta thanks to RNG, I think? Successful meta, the defiance bar popped up at least thrice and we broke it each time, allowing for beautiful bursts, whereas in the failed one the defiance bar only popped up once, and that was when HP was closer to 20%--The platform was loaded with adds, so everyone was getting downed on the waystation, preventing EMPs from being picked up and used (defiance break failed). Successful meta also had the boss dashing an agreeable amount (my fails are well into the double-digits, and in one of them the boss dashed and dashed, back to back, over and over; it was terrible!).

TL;DR: I was in a successful meta thanks to both an experienced group and chance. The odd amount of defiance bar break opportunities really makes or breaks the run.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Starseer.1047
Formatting

[subgenius.7649]

11 minutes ago, Kelly.7019 said:

all the issues aside. the meta needs to be extended by 2 mins. more would complete it and not go insane trying to.

time isnt the issue, its the mechanics either not happening at all (cc), or others happening all the time (tail) not giving you a chance to focus on the core dps phase. The random nature of the these mechanics are the biggest stumbling block to this event. The rariety of getting a proper phase distribution is the same as a chance at getting an infusion drop.

[Necrosian.1359]

12 minutes ago, Kelly.7019 said:

all the issues aside. the meta needs to be extended by 2 mins. more would complete it and not go insane trying to.

5-10 since numbers divisible by five are better.

[Kelly.7019]

6 minutes ago, Necrosian.1359 said:

5-10 since numbers divisible by five are better.

that's way too much time.

[Kelly.7019]

12 minutes ago, subgenius.7649 said:

time isnt the issue, its the mechanics either not happening at all (cc), or others happening all the time (tail) not giving you a chance to focus on the core dps phase. The random nature of the these mechanics are the biggest stumbling block to this event. The rariety of getting a proper phase distribution is the same as a chance at getting an infusion drop.

I mean every fight that's failed (all of them) map always blames it on rng. IS there some break down anet has provided of the fight? how do people know other then doing it 25+ times and failing. @20% left i bet things could be adjusted SLIGHTLY by anet, but seems unlikely.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Kelly.7019

[Cloudz.6890]

2 minutes ago, Kelly.7019 said:

that's way too much time.

It's a meta event. Who cares? Increasing time is a lot more likely than somehow reworking all the mechanics to get rid of RNG & back to back invuln/damage reduction phases too.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Cloudz.6890