Why do you expect so much from people in Dragon's End meta?!?! [Merged]

[Einsof.1457]

4 hours ago, Mike.7983 said:

Let me guess you got in with a hardcore raider or high profile twitch streamer? That seems to be the trend for anyone with a turtle.  For the rest of the 99% player base we are stuck until fixed.

I have no idea. maybe. there was a leader giving groups orders tho. 

[Einsof.1457]

4 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

Oh hero of the masses! Commander of our heart who is so wise and brilliant!

Share thy wisdom! However did you accomplish such a feat!?

 

Let me guess. Middle of the night when it's primarily people with no jobs and no responsibilities online. Deliberately joining a certain guild or streamer, etc.

The meta fails. All the time, all day. I'd actually love for ANet to release numbers. They won't because it's gonna show like 0.X% clear  rate which would deter people from playing. But good lord. I do remember why I avoid raids and harder content as much as possible. The hardcore community is truly insufferable. 

Honestly, I'm surprised I didn't see LI, UFE or turtle mount requirements on DE / Strikes yet. Only a matter of hours I'd guess though.

Don't worry. Everyone's inane complaining will yield the results you seek. Have no fear, anet will nerf it. Unfortunately. 

[xvalkyrie.6742]

I don't mind the difficulty overall, I like the challenge of it, I think the meta itself is epic, and people will learn the encounter over time. BUT, being griefed isn't fun. So some solutions to throw out there; the map cap for the zone needs improvement (it feels like not enough people can get in, I was the only commander the last one, we used squad groups to split up, and only had 40 people in squad and not many out of squad, I doubt there were 50 other people on map just sitting at the starting wp), or her hp needs tuning (each time I've attempted it, we've gotten her around 30% before timer runs out), or the crystals need to be taken out of her overall timer to prevent one person ruining it for the whole map, because being down 4+ minutes of dps time is terrible and one person can hurt the whole map by being bad and/or mean. Or could also change it so that instead of a team wipe if the wisps don't make it up, just the wisps die, and not the team at the top of the tower. 

 

The last two times I tried the meta, we got wiped each time because people either didn't know how or straight up wouldn't climb the tower in wisp form. It shouldn't take two minutes to climb the tower, it's thirty seconds of jumping, if that, since you just aim for the other bubbles and get energy back. Then hitting the new button to get your body back when you reach the top of the tower. But for some reason, people aren't. I've commanded the meta and explain this all as best I can, so it comes down to either non-english speaking folks not understanding me (which is ok, NA is still a multi-lingual space, even if majority communicate with english) but then also just not understanding the mechanic itself (not great, means the mechanic is too difficult to pick up in a literal time crunch), or people are ignoring and just running out the timer (griefing, afk for other reasons, not understanding what happens to the team if you DON'T get to the top, etc). So that needs some tweaking, I feel. Because even after everybody understands what they need to do for a successful run, those sections can still sink you, just because one person decides to not play nice and ruin everybody else's hour. 

Edited March 3, 2022 by xvalkyrie.6742

[Cranberry.5849]

Adding salt to the wound....I understand that this bug eventually need to be addressed but is this really the right time to do that? When the meta itself is so overtuned and with the wisp mechanic of having one player being able to massively impact the win ratio of an entire 50man squad...

[Savoren.3910]

On 3/2/2022 at 6:29 PM, Einsof.1457 said:

Why do you think that those of us who enjoy challenging open world don't deserve ONE meta that is challenging in the whole game?  Stop being selfish. 

Talk about irony. If you want a challenge, gather a squad, make sure to not do any pre events to not get the buff and do the meta like that. This meta is way too overtuned and it needs to be nerfed significantly. I seriously doubt anyone enjoys wasting 2 hours of their lives only to fail the meta and return empty handed, as this meta is nothing but an absolute waste of time as it currently is.

[Sobx.1758]

3 hours ago, VexoKyle.4817 said:

for the first few days ive put it down to new elite specs, new expansion, learning eta. but honestly now its becoming a little bit of a joke

"For the first few days... but now"? The expansion is out for... less than 3 days and 7 hours. I'm not saying it doesn't need any adjustements -I'm saying it's very clearly still extremely new.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Savoren.3910]

On 3/2/2022 at 7:16 PM, Deadran.7345 said:

I'd rather they keep it challenging so that more of the casual playerbase simply has to "step it up" and get "better" overall so that the group content gets more enjoyable throughout the game.

Do you wanna get an abandoned meta? Because that's how you get an abandoned meta.

[Hannkatt.9547]

I'm all for hard meta's. But making the hard part to count on 50/50 randoms to know every mechanic is not the right way.

[LucianDK.8615]

Only succeeed due to a highly coordinated group, even if first time with them was fail, nearly all of them stayed for another go.

15 tries, Argghh!!!

[Lottie.5370]

I've only done the meta twice, one success and one fail. The success was very easy - we messed up the green phase and had to wait it out, and still had 5 minutes left - however, it was a raid squad and honestly I would not even attempt the meta without one (which is quite sad).

 

The meta seems a bit too overtuned for the average player with the way it is at the moment, seeing as one person standing in the green circles can take away 4 minutes of the encounter for everyone. I wish they'd re-work it somehow.

[Caitybee.3614]

1 hour ago, Savoren.3910 said:

Do you wanna get an abandoned meta? Because that's how you get an abandoned meta.

 

The fact they put the Turtle mount egg behind this meta, and the fact it's so difficult that only around 1% are successfully completing it, I'd say those 2 points alone have already guaranteed this a dead meta once people get their eggs.

 

They should've given the egg as a reward for completing the entire EoD story, then at least you still have to do work for it, but it's a guaranteed drop after all that effort.

[Desh.7028]

2 hours ago, Savoren.3910 said:

Talk about irony. If you want a challenge, gather a squad, make sure to not do any pre events to not get the buff and do the meta like that. This meta is way too overtuned and it needs to be nerfed significantly. I seriously doubt anyone enjoys wasting 2 hours of their lives only to fail the meta and return empty handed, as this meta is nothing but an absolute waste of time as it currently is.

 

So much worse than that. In open world you can play straight up perfectly out of your mind and things can still fail because you are by design dependent on a large chunk of random people. An event requiring a 50 people boon comp with voice chat is a failure in design, not a failure on the player bases part.

Then there is a griefing mechanic baked in on top of an already hefty health bar and a lot of other mechanics that will generate droves of down states on their own or keep players CCed for really long periods of time. The encounter probably has 20%, if not more, too much in terms of EHP if mechanics are being kept (which are fun to do imho but can be problematic for open world).

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

It is heavily overtuned, and not to mention buggy.

When is 'Do not stand in green circles' a mechanic? Anet trained us to go to green circles, stay out of red and now... everyone screems to stay out of green? Unnecesairily confusion

Secondly, The death traps are OP and buggy, WAY too many, and not enough time to get out of the way. Buggy as in: Got whiped 3 times while doing the correct thing... Jump above the tail sweep with the special action skill. Once was even while I was flying back to platform from airship waypoint, and I was not even close.

The sheer length for me, as it is now means: the second I get a succesful meta and can unlock siege turtle, I go... I mean... I ABANDON the map and go back to the other meta's

This one feels as it has mechanics from ALL previous meta's together cramped in 20 minute boss fight.

This is an open world map event. It should be hard but also doable for the casual player. Otherwise they run away.

Considering the nerves on previous meta's, I simply cannot say it otherwise than conclude that no lessons were learned from that.

I am heavily dissapointed that I payed for this. 

[Ashlin.3708]

5 hours ago, Einsof.1457 said:

Don't worry. Everyone's inane complaining will yield the results you seek. Have no fear, anet will nerf it. Unfortunately. 

unfortunately?  Go play dark souls if you want that kind of content. its an MMO and a PvE map event at that. Players like you are whats killing the gaming industry. Learn your games. Learn your genres and stop trying to get dark soul level game play from a casual grind based MMO. 

[Slowpokeking.8720]

5 minutes ago, Ashlin.3708 said:

unfortunately?  Go play dark souls if you want that kind of content. its an MMO and a PvE map event at that. Players like you are whats killing the gaming industry. Learn your games. Learn your genres and stop trying to get dark soul level game play from a casual grind based MMO. 

The problem is that hard open meta doesn't mean ppl with good skill would win, but ppl with good luck to get into a map would.

[Ashlin.3708]

1 minute ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

The problem is that hard open meta doesn't mean ppl with good skill would win, but ppl with good luck to get into a map would.

yeah I agree. map meta's arent the place to try and put a raid-esk event. If they wanted to do that they should have just made it a raid and given a more casual event as the map meta like they should have done from the start. but you know. no-brains anet, like they'd ever do something correct for once.

[Ashlin.3708]

1 hour ago, Desh.7028 said:

 

So much worse than that. In open world you can play straight up perfectly out of your mind and things can still fail because you are by design dependent on a large chunk of random people. An event requiring a 50 people boon comp with voice chat is a failure in design, not a failure on the player bases part.

Then there is a griefing mechanic baked in on top of an already hefty health bar and a lot of other mechanics that will generate droves of down states on their own or keep players CCed for really long periods of time. The encounter probably has 20%, if not more, too much in terms of EHP if mechanics are being kept (which are fun to do imho but can be problematic for open world).

Dont forget in order to do legendaries, you will need to hard grind the meta about 200 times successfully to make one legendary. yeah no, way overtuned indeed.

[Zenith.7301]

Massive fps drop on high end computers, can't see crap in all the vomit of other people's vfx because despite almost 10 years of being out as a game, anet has yet to introduce battle effect filters for other players.

[pugster.9378]

This reminds me when Anet Introduced Teq and how hard to coordinate to do the meta.  Even then, it was possible to do it with a little coordination.  Even so, I think Anet made it easier since it was introduced.  And now they put this dragon's end meta that is 5 times more complicated and takes 4-5 times as long and you expect people to finish it?

Edited March 4, 2022 by pugster.9378

[Ozimul.9185]

The Dragon's End meta is definitely overtuned. The closest I've gotten is 10%, and that was with a coordinated group making calls, placing markers, and skipping wisp phase (before it got fixed).

The pre-event phase is unnecessarily long, especially for an encounter that's basically doomed to fail if your whole squad isn't at top-tier raid levels. It just isn't worth it to try at this point, praying for that one golden run where everything is perfect.

[Ashlin.3708]

I just played 3 runs with a VEYR organized team, the last round we played literally perfect, canceled both green phases and only missed ONE CC. that was all it took for us not to be able to beat it. this meta is INSANELY terrible. there is NO excuse for anet. this meta is way overtuned and anet should be embarrassed about this joke they call a meta. I certainly am done with this game until they fix it. I want my money back. Dragons end is going to kill this game.

[Ashlin.3708]

also side note, we only missed the one cc cause there were a bunch of knock backs and aoes we had to dodge to the point that we just BARELY missed it by a hair.

[Seraphis Zurvan.6839]

I've done this meta approximately 6 times now, all failures. First two weren't terribly organized, while the others I had people literally bring diverse build sets for boon support, dps, and a couple of healers, dedicate an entire group to handle greens that know how to do them, explained the mechanics exactly how to do them, etc, and people are still failing miserably.

I LOVE this difficulty spike. THANK YOU for finally making an event that actually kept me truly engaged and actually have to try in. I actually have to move, try, and keep on my toes while feeling a very strong sense of urgency. Drakkar started like that, but as soon as the scaling was nerfed on Feb. 11th, 2020, it was back to auto-attack AFK for 20 mins, despite the increases in its "damage" (you can literally just have a couple of healers and suddenly its moot).

However, the problem is it takes two hours before it's even ready, and it's rather long just to have well over a majority continually fail it. I expect failures, but not this many from organized groups. I have a couple of things I would like to suggest as improvements.

1. DO NOT lower the vitality, do not change the damage, slightly lower the defiance bar health on the boss. Please, keep the scaling as is. The length of the encounter is absolutely perfect. Instead, increase the timer by about 7 to 10 minutes to give groups more time. The reason being is the green circles mechanic (wisps mechanic), where many people do not seem to either fully understand it, or have difficulty ascending.

1.5 Unfortunately people would rather skip this mechanic at all costs rather than do it simply to give more time, as every second counts. This is particularly true with people who have bad spatial recognition (please see all the complaints with Wing 5 Dhuum encounter relating to a similar mechanic). We get to sit there for two minutes being tossed around like rag dolls from powerful adds without being able to touch the boss now, while the timer continues to countdown. This happens sometimes too even if the people who made it up back fill the white bar to full and the phase will simply not end still (i've never seen the green mechanic actually succeed). I am unsure if this is a bug or not, but if that bar fills, shouldn't it end early and the group can continue fighting the boss? I hope this makes sense.

2. Significantly lower the whirlpool defiance bar health. No one even bothers with helping people because it wastes too much time not hitting the boss due to time constraints.

3. Lower the tail health by about 25%. Boss moves waaaaaay to much for this to be as high as it is.

4. Make greens DPS buff last a bit longer for succeeding in the wisps mechanic.

5. Latest update from the time of this post, you made the phase transitions more responsive. Thank you for this, however there is still some edge cases where this doesn't happen. If I recall, it's when the tail health just begins, then starts moving around, and the boss hits a phase transition point in its vitality bar. It will continue to hang for about 20 seconds (if I recall correctly). Most cases, it's faster, but that was one I noticed today.

6. Lower the quantity of mobs by about half during greens, but keep them at veteran and elite tier. People tend to complain about too much visual clutter here.


Hope this feedback helps!

[Erise.5614]

6 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

Massive fps drop on high end computers, can't see crap in all the vomit of other people's vfx because despite almost 10 years of being out as a game, anet has yet to introduce battle effect filters for other players.

Not just that. But turning on Effect LOD also causes some boss attacks to disappear. Which means I get to choose between maybe not seeing an instakill boss attack but playing with ~20fps. Or seeing all attacks but playing with ~10-15fps.

[Geckoo.6018]

Honestly, i'm not going to invest more time on this meta unless they do some big changes. Is just too much time invested with a high risk of failure... as someone said, that's the perfect formula to get an abandoned meta and sadly the whole zone is so tied to the meta that is even difficult to enjoy the zone itself... it feels like the meta stole a jade sea themed map.