Post-release pains

[Bazsi.2734]

I finally got around to play with some of the new e-specs, and I think some of them might be slightly overtuned.

The damage output on them is unreasonably high, especially when compared to other squishy/glass cannon specs like willbender or virtuoso. Either cut the damage of harbinger/vindicator in half, or double the damage of literally everything else, they are insanely out of tune with the rest of the game. This is not fine-tuning, do not postpone this till the end of the season!

[Crab Fear.1624]

So, probably after the next conquest season, this will be addressed with a 15% nerf.

Just going by their history and how they approach.

 

[Downstate.4697]

Quickness + Reapers Might is the big culprit imo

[Ragnar.4257]

Could be due to how damage-modifiers interact? The skill gives a +100% damage modifier above blight threshold. Given than just +40% on Sic'Em, when combined with other damage-mods, can make ridonculous damage, I'd assume a +100% damage mod with a few other modifiers thrown in would be even more insane. That's if the tooltip is correct and it's actually a damage-modifier, as opposed to an increase in the base-damage of the skill.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Ragnar.4257

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

I love that voracious arc (which is also a CC and an evade) can hit for 17k...while bulls charge hits for 7.

 

I realize that VA is a daze and BC is a knock down, so I would accept a difference in damage. But a 16,993 difference in damage seems a bit steep.

[Bazsi.2734]

13 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Could be due to how damage-modifiers interact? The skill gives a +100% damage modifier above blight threshold. Given than just +40% on Sic'Em, when combined with other damage-mods, can make ridonculous damage, I'd assume a +100% damage mod with a few other modifiers thrown in would be even more insane. That's if the tooltip is correct and it's actually a damage-modifier, as opposed to an increase in the base-damage of the skill.

I wasn't really stopping to think how it exactly happened, i threw a build togheter without much thinking in like 20 seconds, went in and punched my keyboard every time i saw an enemy... and you have multiple buttons that do over 10K damage. That just shouldn't be a thing. I don't care how squishy you are, this damage is too much.

[Ragnar.4257]

5 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

I wasn't really stopping to think how it exactly happened, i threw a build togheter without much thinking in like 20 seconds, went in and punched my keyboard every time i saw an enemy... and you have multiple buttons that do over 10K damage. That just shouldn't be a thing. I don't care how squishy you are, this damage is too much.

Yeah, the number of times a Vindicator or Harb has blown someone up and said "I don't even know what I did", is really great.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

i tried telling the necro forum how strong the damage output is months ago on harbinger but all i got were laughs. to be expected and my post wasn't very convincing. i get what they're trying to do, create a glass cannon spec, and i appreciate it but stuff like this is (very strong in one category and weak in another) only gonna create friction on both ends of the spectrum. i think the game could benefit from stuff like this and admittedly it is fun to play but the balancing game is even harder and more important. for this game from a pvp balance perspective i think we can break down a class into 5 categories: damage, passive defence (armor, boons), active defense (evades, blocks), sustain (both condi clears and heals), and mobility. imo for harbinger if they decide to nerf damage i would hope they buff mobility first then maybe active defense. i'm not sure a class can be viable with just mobility alone unless its god tier like teef.

[anbujackson.9564]

Funny when you think about it.

You got those glass cannons and then you have bladesworn which is all about that one big hit.... which doesnt even do 50% of the damage shown.

[FarmBotXD.1430]

To anyone wondering.
Lich form had 2,34 coof on its auto-attack with 772,5 weapon strength 
Voracious arc has 2,8 coof on top of ( I think it works like this ) retaining it shigh weapon strength, staff for example has like ~1k
If this works how I think it works its ~ 54% more damage then lich auto used to do before nerfs.
you remember getting limp dicked hit from necro for 5k? thats ~8k now.
you remember that insane 12k crit? well thats closer to 20k now. 
then add in 10 stacks of tormen which will do over 2k damage even with 0 condi damage 😄
Just by looking at the wiki you can see there is 0 split as devs gave 0 kitten about pvp balancing

[KrHome.1920]

This is how harbinger works since beta4 where it got the rework.

ANet crippled harbinger's mobility and regeneration, but increased the damage of shroud 3 and 4 by 100% above a certain blight threshold.

So as a harbinger your task is to kill faster than getting killed as you don't even need to try to disengage to recover anymore - you will look like an idiot if you do. Everything except core necro will catch you.

Nevertheless: Pretty sure this mechanic will get a nerf to a damage increase by just 50%. Even though it is balanced because you waste your (already pathetic) mobility skills to deal that burst and if it misses you are a sitting duck. You can compare it to a core mesmer that uses blink offensively to oneshot a target. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by KrHome.1920

[FarmBotXD.1430]

1 hour ago, KrHome.1920 said:

This is how harbinger works since beta4 where it got the rework.

ANet crippled harbinger's mobility and regeneration, but increased the damage of shroud 3 and 4 by 100% above a certain blight threshold.

So as a harbinger your task is to kill faster than getting killed as you don't even need to try to disengage to recover anymore - you will look like an idiot if you do. Everything except core necro will catch you.

Nevertheless: Pretty sure this mechanic will get a nerf to a damage increase by just 50%. Even though it is balanced because you waste your (already pathetic) mobility skills to deal that burst and if it misses you are a sitting duck. You can compare it to a core mesmer that uses blink offensively to oneshot a target. 

why do you compare 5+ cooldowns combo of a mesmer into 1 ability from a necro? if anything that shows how kittening broken it is.
If I as a mesmer have to blink + F3+F1+gs2+gs3+ mantra and all necro has to do is press F4 then thats kittening busted in 1 to 1 comparison no?

 

[KrHome.1920]

8 hours ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

why do you compare 5+ cooldowns combo of a mesmer into 1 ability from a necro? if anything that shows how kittening broken it is.

Probably because I have a better understanding about the game than you have. Glass canon harbinger is a freekill after you dodged shroud4 - which is laughably easy to dodge, block or whatever as it has the same animation as vault (staff5 on teef). What bigger tell do you need? Should your screen flash red when the skill is executed?

While core mesmer could easily disengage via stealth after a failed burst, harbinger can not. And what you also do not understand is that the 10 blight needed for the damage increase have to be built up somehow, so you will see this burst coming from miles away and it is not just a 1 ability mechanic.

The game is full of glass harbinger + guard support duos now and they all fail, because it doesn't work. No support can keep a harbinger that is rendering that damage numbers on the screen alive, if it is focused by 2 players.

 

Quote

If I as a mesmer have to blink + F3+F1+gs2+gs3+ mantra and all necro has to do is press F4 then thats kittening busted in 1 to 1 comparison no?

Like I said: you don't even understand how harbinger works. Posts like yours are like the complaints of other people in this subforum about the damage exploit of shroud 3 even though this exploit is fixed for 2 days now. Do you people even play the game and understand what's going on?

Edited March 5, 2022 by KrHome.1920

[Myror.7521]

@KrHome.1920 funny enough that a daze skill deal any good damage (an condition). Since classes that remains to use sorts of cc get their skillw smashed to 0 damage.

[Rufo.3716]

I figured I'd try coming back to the game to see if the new xpac made PvP worth playing again.  Was I ever wrong.  This must be the worst PvP has ever been.  Just shows how clueless the devs really are.  Have fun with the PvE in this game because that's all that's even playable now.  

 

Sad because PvP should have been this game's selling point.  There are many other games that do PvE much better than this.  

[Sigmoid.7082]

1 hour ago, Pati.2438 said:

@KrHome.1920 funny enough that a daze skill deal any good damage (an condition). Since classes that remains to use sorts of cc get their skillw smashed to 0 damage.

Skills that daze weren't included in the CC does low damage thing. Otherwise skills like Pile-driver, GunFlame, Gazelle charge etc would also do no damage.

 

 It was just things like stun, knockdown, float, knock back, launch. 

[frareanselm.1925]

Talking about overtuned... Specter giving barrier to the party from stealth in Pvp... is totally broken.

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

4 hours ago, KrHome.1920 said:

While core mesmer could easily disengage via stealth after a failed burst, harbinger can not.

Ever heard of Flesh Wurm?

Edited March 5, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[Kuma.1503]

Dhuumfire + unyeilding blast go brrr

[Vancho.8750]

20 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Dhuumfire + unyeilding blast go brrr

I think Dhuumfire still has the old auto attack coefficient from before the balancepocalipse and it didn't get the 33% shave cause they kinda forgot it existed and it changed the skill.