Upcoming Changes to "The Battle For The Jade Sea"

[Seraphis Zurvan.6839]

44 minutes ago, Xero the Dark.8230 said:

Yeah...if they want us to "improve our skill" and "try out different content"...this IS NOT the way to go about it. I (and probably many others) HAVE BEEN IMPROVING already. Just by playing the game. I even HAD a passing interest in raids and was slowly working up to it...but the way they decided to PUSH this before I was ready? It should be OUR CHOICE as players when WE want to move into harder content. Sure, we 'have the choice to ignore this meta' but its OPEN. WORLD. CONTENT. THAT is MY content as a mainly PVE player. I do regularly PvP, have WvWd enough to get the warclaw AND Gift to make a legendary. I've done dungeons. I haven't done many strike missions, but I've done a few. I WAS working towards this. After THIS implementation I don't think I ever want to try raids...seeing the attitudes of raiders (not all, many have understood and even been helpful to other players!)...I want my (mostly) non-toxic PVE content back!!!

Believe me, most raiders aren't like this. It's a very vocal minority that are what you've described.

Keep in mind, everyone is quite frustrated at this content right now, and I don't blame them. No one wants their time wasted because something well beyond their control. I get it. It doesn't excuse the actions done certainly, but I do hold some level of empathy here.

I run a raid group myself, and we're all about as frustrated as many are because of this. I can't even get my players to do this content with me because of it.

[Pinkeh.4207]

5 attempts today. All failed. Is the turtle even worth it? It's such a colossal waste of time.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Pinkeh.4207

[Xero the Dark.8230]

@Seraphis Zurvan.6839

I do believe you...and I know I've been pretty vocal myself in these forums because of this...I'm upset...but I would never want to be abusive / mocking towards anyone...some of these comments from some of the raiders mock other players...just because someone is new / learning / has mental health issues / has a disability/ is young / is elderly...etc...or for ANY other reason this just might not be their content. But we were all promised untrue things. It's more about the betrayal / concept of this (at least for me) than it is about the turtle. But I keep seeing people saying "All this over a turtle?" "GET GUD!" "GET BETTER" etc...I do not get where it's coming from. ANet is choosing to lock out the people I mentioned above just to "make people get better"...and what if some of us DO just want to relax (even just press 1 to autoattack [not me, but still!]). What's wrong with that? Do people not get that choice anymore? I get that some of you want harder content but it has to have its place and be ANNOUNCED that way to begin with. Especially if they're going to put it into PvE...instead this was not mentioned at all and hidden from us. Now Anet is just being silent and not even apologizing at the very least for all this terrible mess. It's not entitlement...this just hurts coming from people we trusted. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Xero the Dark.8230

[Raizel.8175]

38 minutes ago, White Knight.5970 said:

Many attempts latter and I finally got it, the only way I got it was die to the gathering we broke her cc bar 3 times in less then 2 minutes. I still stand behind everything everyone is saying the rng is to unpredictable and this meta needs to be changed. The mechanics themselves are fun and engaging.. The time limit sucks.

 

The only way I was able to beat this was because I got into a group of raiders who were helping at the time.

 

I strongly belive that players who are not part of hard-core raiders or do not have the right builds will not be able to beat this with out said help from raid groups.

 

The only time I'm ever gonna be on this map ever again is for map completion,mastery points and fishing

You're vastly overestimating stuff. Decent DPS is already the result of a somewhat decent build and gear (you don't have to run meta-builds to deal a decent amount of damage and can also run more survivability focused stat combinations like Trailblazer/Ritualist for cDPS and Marauder/Dragon for pDPS) and boons (having boons basically more than doubles your DPS). There are several builds where just knowing the basics already nets you 20~25k DPS that way. You also get up to +25% damage if you do pre-events in DE and you can also use Jade Batteries for +150 power, condition damage, vitality and toughness each.

Believe me, you don't need hardcore raiders to succeed that meta event. You just need people that are somewhat interested in game and their own class' mechanics and play accordingly. You at least can't expect to solve every problem the game offers just by playing some level 80 boost build and just auto-attacking. People should at the very least engage with the game and not use it as a mere time killer. The main reason it fails is because of RNG - that needs to be fixed, urgently.

[Chichimec.9364]

1 hour ago, Seraphis Zurvan.6839 said:

...Casual players *should* be striving to become better than they are, but you can't force people, and there will be plenty of people who refuse to give a kitten about that. I don't see why anyone could be possibly content at staying at the same skill level but that's just me.

Don't know if this will help or not but think of The Godfather movies. In his younger days, The Godfather was a kitten, kicking butt and barely bothering to take names. By the time he retired though, Don Corleone was content to let others do the leading and the fighting. He spent his time in the garden, playing with his grandson.

That's where I'm at these days in my retirement. I'm no longer a kitten and am not interested in hard, challenging content. Nor do I want to "git gud". Instead, I like to spend my time doing relaxed, casual stuff. Up till now, Anet has been good about providing both the hard content and the more easy-going game play. I hope they continue to do so but I am getting concerned about the "git gud" mentality that seems to be coming from the Anet team these days.

[Adah.8371]

This is a fight meant to be organized such as a raid or other high level content. 

 

Why touching the core of what Open World was meant to be: accessible content for everyone including total unstuffed newbies and casual. If it is meant to be organized, just leave that to guilds.

 

Maps are full, you spend 20 minutes clicking "Join Dragon End" ; Commanders request raiding proofs or you get kicked, it's not the best way to introduce complex strategies to casual and newbies... On top of that certain players are now creating "Boycott groups" in the search... What an ambiance for a launch... 😕

 

You just need to take the Turtle mount Mastery of that fight or adjust the difficulty in consequence, and everyone will be happy.

It's a pity to see the community divided just for that and not be able to enjoy the expansion content. You need to do something.

[White Knight.5970]

This whole thing is just flash backs to when tequatl was first out and everyone I was playing with said it was impossible to do the first 30min he was released

[The Boz.2038]

Individually, the mechanics, the lead-up, the boss, the phases, the variety of the fight, everything checks out.

The only thing needs changing is the huge random factor of phases. Killing the tail so that you can DPS, then CCing the boss, and then seeing the boss move, and then move again five seconds later, is a literal slow-motion loss of three minutes that you just watch and are powerless to do anything about.

[GoldenPants.1870]

2 hours ago, Seraphis Zurvan.6839 said:

Yeah these definitely help, but convincing people to run such setups and try doing more is usually asking too much for many. Or they just couldn't be f***ed to care.

Yeah that would be open world content players for you.

 

Also kinda funny how people keep reacting with the confused face for giving my experience on the fight. 

[Snowlock.3841]

56 minutes ago, White Knight.5970 said:

This whole thing is just flash backs to when tequatl was first out and everyone I was playing with said it was impossible to do the first 30min he was released

 

Clearly what you're saying is that Anet should've learned a basic game design lesson from Tequatl (and Serpents' Ire and Chak Gerent), but they didn't.  That's incredibly obvious, but it's good that you pointed it out anyway.

[Caitybee.3614]

I'm honestly going to make a legitimate claim here; that if they don't do anything to address this, it very well could end up damaging the game's future. I know that sounds harsh, but it's how the gaming world works, I've played games that closed due to major errors, or not taking feedback into account such as this meta. Who knows, their patch day is on Tuesdays usually, which is tomorrow - so we shall see if any update drops or not.

[Kerin.9125]

On 3/4/2022 at 8:12 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

T

On 3/4/2022 at 8:12 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Right now, we are not making any adjustments to the overall health of the boss. Instead, we are looking at ways to incentivize players to engage with and complete the encounters’ core mechanics.

 

One of the most tone-deaf responses I've seen ANet ever post to player complaints.

What about "RAID content doesn't belong in the Open World" don't you get?

What about ANet's total misrepresentation that the turtle would be "easier than the SkyScale to get" don't you get? 

Tinkering with mechanica while the RNG core design of this fight means many minutes are lost with players doing 0 DPS due to the boss moving and invalidating the bar break that happened 5 seconds before .. extending 10sec to 30sec is meaningless when the RNG only given 5sec most of the time!

This belongs in a STRIKE MISSION at the very least, if not a raid, like LWS5 were those that want to raid can do so while the vast majority of players who don't want to and don't raid can do it in a solo instance, you know, like LWS5 and unlock the Turtle in content that is at the level they want to play?

Edited March 8, 2022 by Kerin.9125

[Zephire.8049]

6 minutes ago, Caitybee.3614 said:

I'm honestly going to make a legitimate claim here; that if they don't do anything to address this, it very well could end up damaging the game's future. I know that sounds harsh, but it's how the gaming world works, I've played games that closed due to major errors, or not taking feedback into account such as this meta. Who knows, their patch day is on Tuesdays usually, which is tomorrow - so we shall see if any update drops or not.

Absolutely. It's not just the meta itself but how Anet is responding (and not responding). I'm now forced to recommend against the game for people who were looking for a chill MMO to play because the company is now pushing hard content that sounds a lot like "Sense of Pride and Accomplishment" and I'm not going to let someone invest a hundred or more hours in a game and spend $40USD minimum on a game without letting them know what's up once they hit the new content. If they choose to do so anyway, that's their choice but I'm not going to sit silently by.

And all it will take is for a gaming site to publish an article or a popular MMO critic putting something out detailing how Anet spent months advertising a mount and saying it will be accessible only for it to be locked behind a meta that destroyed the playerbase in less than a week and said they weren't concerned about that and people who were considering trying GW2 will decide they'd rather not deal with a company that did that.

GW2 is an old game as far as MMOs go and running on a ~20 year old engine that's still largely DX 9 and is a small franchise—investors and/or NCSoft may see this as a good time to pull the plug on it as it's already on borrowed time and was being propped up by the "casual" players. Games and studios have been forced to close because of things like this. And, unlike some other big MMO developers, Anet isn't in a position where they can deal with months or years of bad PR as GW2 is their primary and largest source of revenue and, if that goes away, their only hope is NCSoft covering their expenses for months if not years rather than cutting their losses and shutting the studio down to focus on the mobile market that is much larger and much more profitable than an old MMO.

[ugrakarma.9416]

3 hours ago, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

The fact that they said Siege Turtle was similar way to obtain and a collection similar to beetle is false advertisement.

Griffon: Unlocked through story.
Skyscale: Unlocked through story
Beetle: Unlocked through story

I finished the story, where is my Turtle?
Locked behind a raid encounter in open world map. Impossible to obtain.

Already cost me more hours and pain to unlock the ... thing than it cost me to obtain Griffon, or Beetle, or Skyscale in playtime.

I call that blatant false advertising

Fix the meta... I am waiting...

also theyre nice scavenger hunts that improve replayability of older maps;.

[ugrakarma.9416]

3 hours ago, Xero the Dark.8230 said:

Yeah...if they want us to "improve our skill" and "try out different content"..

i don't buy that, is just strikes are cheaper to develop, just a boss boxed in 1 room.

[Caitybee.3614]

7 minutes ago, Zephire.8049 said:

Absolutely. It's not just the meta itself but how Anet is responding (and not responding). I'm now forced to recommend against the game for people who were looking for a chill MMO to play because the company is now pushing hard content that sounds a lot like "Sense of Pride and Accomplishment" and I'm not going to let someone invest a hundred or more hours in a game and spend $40USD minimum on a game without letting them know what's up once they hit the new content. If they choose to do so anyway, that's their choice but I'm not going to sit silently by.

And all it will take is for a gaming site to publish an article or a popular MMO critic putting something out detailing how Anet spent months advertising a mount and saying it will be accessible only for it to be locked behind a meta that destroyed the playerbase in less than a week and said they weren't concerned about that and people who were considering trying GW2 will decide they'd rather not deal with a company that did that.

GW2 is an old game as far as MMOs go and running on a ~20 year old engine that's still largely DX 9 and is a small franchise—investors and/or NCSoft may see this as a good time to pull the plug on it as it's already on borrowed time and was being propped up by the "casual" players. Games and studios have been forced to close because of things like this. And, unlike some other big MMO developers, Anet isn't in a position where they can deal with months or years of bad PR as GW2 is their primary and largest source of revenue and, if that goes away, their only hope is NCSoft covering their expenses for months if not years rather than cutting their losses and shutting the studio down to focus on the mobile market that is much larger and much more profitable than an old MMO.

Yes, and I know some don't want the meta to be nerfed at all, or at least not to be made too easy but it doesn't have to. I've said it many times now, if they just added 10 minutes to the boss timer with everything else untouched - it would be much better.

[ugrakarma.9416]

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Individually, the mechanics, the lead-up, the boss, the phases, the variety of the fight, everything checks out.

The only thing needs changing is the huge random factor of phases. Killing the tail so that you can DPS, then CCing the boss, and then seeing the boss move, and then move again five seconds later, is a literal slow-motion loss of three minutes that you just watch and are powerless to do anything about.

this is a inheritance of DRM's stupidity, where all bosses have a waste time mechanic when reach loss 25% of hp.

[Stelawrat.6589]

3 hours ago, Seraphis Zurvan.6839 said:

... /snip

However I think this encounter was a bit too big of a jump in difficulty for the time being. Casual players *should* be striving to become better than they are, but you can't force people, and there will be plenty of people who refuse to give a kitten about that. I don't see why anyone could be possibly content at staying at the same skill level but that's just me.

Casual players, that would be me, *should* be striving to become better than they are. 

Well yes, yes I am. Why else would I watch hours of WP & Vallun videos on various builds? Although I have to admit to loving WP's accent & enthusiasm & Vallun's soothing voice & music choices, among other things... 

I've never felt Anet was trying to force me to do anything, although secretly I suspect Rubi is, her & her dead kittens! But let's not go there...

Maybe, now just maybe, some of us casual players have an older pc, or our internet is wonky, our ping is ungodly, we have poor reflexes, an old mouse, not bad but old I tell you, or we ourselves are old...*cries, or our mechanical keyboard makes a racket in the middle of the night, as we pound away, risking waking the neighbours, striving to become better, filling the air with kittens!  

I could go on,  but I trust you catch my drift. Or maybe that's just me. 😛

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

3 hours ago, Seraphis Zurvan.6839 said:

I also believe this was true. It has been slowly increasing since Heart of Thorns. The core game before any expansions was an absolute joke and the majority of people wanted something more challenging. Of course, when that happened people bitched up a storm so I don't know what they expected. About the hardest encounter there was at the time before HoT was Tequatl, before that became a joke, and Triple Trouble, which was near impossible to kill all three wurms. LS1 had Marionette, but that was only temporary until recently. The rest.....1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1.....

 

However I think this encounter was a bit too big of a jump in difficulty for the time being. Casual players *should* be striving to become better than they are, but you can't force people, and there will be plenty of people who refuse to give a kitten about that. I don't see why anyone could be possibly content at staying at the same skill level but that's just me.

You are right the game has steadily increased it's challenge rating since even before HoT when the champions received the CC bar. That's not a bad thing. It's NEVER been my experience that #1 works. I would wager my skills are right up there with the greats if only technological constraints would cost as much. That being said the fact is AI will ALWAYS win! If the dev's toon it there is NO  way ANYONE will E V E R WIN period I know that, you know that, we ALL know that. So would you enjoy a game you are constantly loosing at? No you wouldn't even buy it much less play it.

 

Fact is they have not come out and said it, and they need to, but if this game is going to be "Challenging content only" I and thousands of others are out. The ONLY time the boards light up like this is when they do something  a game mode doesn't like. The game mode in question is open world PvE content. They tried "we challenged our own conventions for creating open world content to provide an encounter unlike anything ever seen before in Guild Wars 2" and succeeded but they also EXCLUDED a player base. In the  span of 3 maps or just over 20 hours of playtime / story time, if you also completed optional content, they are asking new players and veterans to have mastered all the skills form multiple content sources and previous content some haven't even played. In order to participate "effectively" in a world boss meta event. With such precision that NO PUG or no non-Org'd map will EVER succeed.  That needs changing. NO MATTER weather or not the siege turtle is attached to it. I did enjoy it but I also know it is spiked way up there for PvE content. They are wanting a player base to become something they don't want to be and they need to specify if the content is going to be like this moving forward because I will not buy more content I can't win at with a PUG. The whole aspect of a social game is a PUGs!

[Ruisen.9471]

1 hour ago, Zephire.8049 said:

the company is now pushing hard content that sounds a lot like "Sense of Pride and Accomplishment"

Anet definitely doesn't deserve that comparison with EA lol, if it had been EA they would have put that turtle in a loot box with a 0.1% chance to get it.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Ruisen.9471

[Shogen.5071]

-

Edited March 8, 2022 by Shogen.5071

[Shogen.5071]

8 hours ago, GoldenPants.1870 said:

Just was in a group that one-shot the meta, even with 3.5 mins to spare or something. Organized squads with good builds make the difference night and day.

try saying that after your 22nd failed attempt kitten gets old especially when its not even your fault you failed, hell at that point its not even the entire squad of 50 people that are to blame, the issue is immunity frames based on RNG and an unforgiving timer that starts ticking before you even get to the boss fight

[Shogen.5071]

8 minutes ago, Ruisen.9471 said:

Anet definitely doesn't deserve that comparison with EA lol, if it had been EA they would have put that turtle in a loot box with a 0.1% chance to get it.

at this point id rather the fking loot box

[Monika Mu Phi.4378]

The Battle For The Jade Sea...

• First off, it seems like the title doesn't really match the meta.  Maybe "The Battle On The Jade Sea"?   
• Secondly, call it what it is...a RAID.  Raids aren't for everyone, especially me.  I didn't buy the game to get put-down, bullied, or "cancelled" online by people who are "in it to win it".  I'm in it to relax, enjoy, and appreciate the artistry that was poured into the scenery & music.  I enjoy meeting new people, and for me, PUGs are awesome!  I can't believe ANet has turned their back on them like this.  
• Third, I wholeheartedly believe ANet would be wise to allow a secondary way to earn content.

 

I caught a few minutes of a how-to-win video, and was amazed at how different that view of the "meta" is from mine.  I saw mechanics on YouTube that I hadn't seen on my screen yet, even after several attempts.  😪  Does ANet beta test the content using "average" internet and PC gear?  I highly recommend it.

 

Over this past week I have decided I am no longer interested in earning the Siege Turtle mount.  I am less interested in playing  End of Dragons content in general.  I had been super excited leading up to this, anticipating coming back to Cantha and seeing all of the familiar names and scenery from GW1.  It's been a big letdown.  I'll probably continue playing the old content, do some fishing, and maybe peek at the new stuff now and then, but instead of earning the siege turtle mount, I plan to explore other MMOs to see if I like them better.

 

I like having "more challenging content" - helps to keep the nasty elite remarks out of my map chat.  But had I known content was locked within a RAID for this expansion, I probably would not have purchased it.  

[Will.9785]

LMAO - was just in a run and she did the Dhuum circle thingie while her tail was up where her tail was!!!

She was doing head attacks where her tail was and tail attacks where her head was at the same time!

Edited March 8, 2022 by Will.9785