Are you guys ready for Condi PS and Druid deaths in raids/fractals?

[savacli.8172]

@Zenith.7301 said:Anyone who thinks a condi support renegade is a practical healer outside a golem benchmark is fooling themselves.

"Support" renegade falling in the same boat as Condi Druid. You take it more so for the buffs than the actual healing. On top of that they still do some pretty competitive damage.

[Crinn.7864]

Honestly think Druid + PS is still better.

Druid still has Spotter and Spirits. Also the fact that GOTL now grants might makes up for the might lost from the PS nerf

[Zenith.7301]

@savacli.8172 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:Anyone who thinks a condi support renegade is a practical healer outside a golem benchmark is fooling themselves.

"Support" renegade falling in the same boat as Condi Druid. You take it more so for the buffs than the actual healing. On top of that they still do some pretty competitive damage.

Sure, but who's actually doing the healing? You are not a condi druid, because healing rev still has a stationary tablet that takes up energy to move each time, which translates to DPS/utility loss from shared energy consumption, and the heal on said tablet is a backloaded heal to boot. Druid heals are a mobile waterfield, an aoe blind heal that also cures conditions, on a class that can provide perma prot, perma vigor, on top of the easy perma fury everyone is forgetting about if the warriors just go DPS build and don't bring FGJ.

Lunar Impact alone is a huge burst of ranged healing with sizable CC contribution, what the hell is condi support renegade contributing in CC besides axe 5? Nothing.

That's not even mentioning the sheer utility of entangle, glyph of tides, glyph of empowerment translating to a 4% damage buff for the group on top of the might and heal it procs with trait, or the spirit elite for clutch rez.

Or the pulls with offhand axe or the superior reflect as compared to projectile absorption of ventari.

On any fight with actual pressure or healing requirements condi renegade will pretty much resemble the mythical condi engineer benchmark. Almost nobody will ever pull close to it in any realistic scenario.

Healing tempest I can see as a contended for a real healer/support spot, but support condi renegade seems like some simcraft scenario.

[SkyShroud.2865]

GOTL gone means dps drop while druid can do might means....1 warrior slot gone to replace with dps to cover that drop of dps.

Chrono + Druid + Banner + DPS + DPSChrono + Druid + DPS + DPS + DPS

Since no need PS warrior means warrior can go dps route as well. Wow, druid is getting more responsibilities.

[musu.9205]

@SkyShroud.2865 said:GOTL gone means dps drop while druid can do might means....1 warrior slot gone to replace with dps to cover that drop of dps.

Chrono + Druid + Banner + DPS + DPSChrono + Druid + DPS + DPS + DPS

Since no need PS warrior means warrior can go dps route as well. Wow, druid is getting more responsibilities.

why you need second druid lol spirit is 10 man now . you can go rev + firebrand for second subgroup for boss fight where your group won't spread out too much or dps chrono with quickness 100% + rev support

[Talindra.4958]

Raid is easy. This nerf is nothing :) I see it a challenge. Ready to solo heal entire party!! :PThey tried to not remove gotl by adjusting and making the buff affect 10 players however it never changed the meta group. Ppl still keep two druids and leave little room for other prof to jump in..so there you go.. they hv to remove it completely. The buff was too good to miss to the group. Now we can open up a spot for any prof to join either a heavy dps or a def support prof depending on the strength of the group.

[SkyShroud.2865]

@musu.9205 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:GOTL gone means dps drop while druid can do might means....1 warrior slot gone to replace with dps to cover that drop of dps.

Chrono + Druid + Banner + DPS + DPSChrono + Druid + DPS + DPS + DPS

Since no need PS warrior means warrior can go dps route as well. Wow, druid is getting more responsibilities.

why you need second druid lol spirit is 10 man now . you can go rev + firebrand for second subgroup for boss fight where your group won't spread out too much or dps chrono with quickness 100% + rev support

Solo Druid, too stressful and you will need 2 druid anyhow for certain boss.

[Akeno.4962]

Ok I know this is gonna be some unpopular opinion, but let me get this straight: people wanted more flexibility, or just some change to another rigid situation?

Community itself should get rid of the idea of changing between inflexible comps, from hyper optimized 1 to 2, even more now that differences between some different compositions are much smaller than they used to be. Allowing some flexibility makes the game more bearable to everyone than phasing VG 5 seconds earlier, specially taking into account pug mentality.

[Subli.8217]

healing in fractals is not needed. just because something works in a raid doesn't mean its good for fotm. nobody ran healing builds in 2014 and such, and fotm bosses were hitting way harder back then. only thing you need to take care of is to not walk into other people.

[Feanor.2358]

@Sublimatio.6981 said:healing in fractals is not needed. just because something works in a raid doesn't mean its good for fotm. nobody ran healing builds in 2014 and such, and fotm bosses were hitting way harder back then. only thing you need to take care of is to not walk into other people.

"Is not needed" is quite exaggerated. I'd rather have a healer on CM Viirastra, tyvm. And on a bunch of other places, too.

[Brynioch.1873]

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@musu.9205 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:GOTL gone means dps drop while druid can do might means....1 warrior slot gone to replace with dps to cover that drop of dps.

Chrono + Druid + Banner + DPS + DPSChrono + Druid + DPS + DPS + DPS

Since no need PS warrior means warrior can go dps route as well. Wow, druid is getting more responsibilities.

why you need second druid lol spirit is 10 man now . you can go rev + firebrand for second subgroup for boss fight where your group won't spread out too much or dps chrono with quickness 100% + rev support

Solo Druid, too stressful and you will need 2 druid anyhow for certain boss.

There were a lot of single druid groups back during Wing 1. Solo healing is entirely possible. Two druids are in no way needed. A single druid can provide everything alone. Better take another healing class if you want 2 healer.

[SkyShroud.2865]

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@musu.9205 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:GOTL gone means dps drop while druid can do might means....1 warrior slot gone to replace with dps to cover that drop of dps.

Chrono + Druid + Banner + DPS + DPSChrono + Druid + DPS + DPS + DPS

Since no need PS warrior means warrior can go dps route as well. Wow, druid is getting more responsibilities.

why you need second druid lol spirit is 10 man now . you can go rev + firebrand for second subgroup for boss fight where your group won't spread out too much or dps chrono with quickness 100% + rev support

Solo Druid, too stressful and you will need 2 druid anyhow for certain boss.

There were a lot of single druid groups back during Wing 1. Solo healing is entirely possible. Two druids are in no way needed. A single druid can provide everything alone. Better take another healing class if you want 2 healer.

But that is debatableWhy bring another healing class and miss out the spotter? Might as well bring druid that can heal and provide spotter.

[savacli.8172]

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Sublimatio.6981 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Sublimatio.6981 said:healing in fractals is not needed. just because something works in a raid doesn't mean its good for fotm. nobody ran healing builds in 2014 and such, and fotm bosses were hitting way harder back then. only thing you need to take care of is to not walk into other people.

"Is not needed" is quite exaggerated. I'd rather have a healer on CM Viirastra, tyvm. And on a bunch of other places, too.

i'd rather have reflects and dodge/WSAD out of aoes. you're just lazy. besides if your dps is strong you dont have to deal with much aoes/projectiles, but if you have a "healing" leecher then your party dps drops and you get rekt by incoming damage.

If you don't have a necro for epi and your group is not being diligent in killing the vets, your party is bound to get knocked down, which is lethal. There are only so many dodges you have in between her stomp and avoiding the point blank kitten she shoots.

A healer is not a leech. He's allowing your DPS to do what they want unhindered. I'd rather bring my druid and heal a run that get some kitten Brazilians demanding 99 cm without healers and then the run takes 20 minutes longer because DPS is crap because half the DPS is constantly running for their lives and sitting at 20-30% hp or downed.

It's also kinda silly calling a healer a leech while sitting on a DPS who wants to shove all defensive responsibility such as reflects unto the chrono, so it is actually the DPS who are leeching off the chrono's capability to negate threats to them.

It really just depends on the encounter. When Spirit Vale first came out and no one was really publishing meta comps you would have single Druid/Rev healers (4-4-1-1, 4-4-1, or 7-2-1). It works just fine for the most part but, of course, you drastically lowered your margin of error so doing something like missing a single green put a lot of stress on your solo healer. I mean, I look at Overseer and think to myself whether two healers is really needed. But then I look at fights like Matthias and Xera where damage is flying around everywhere and, yeah, two/three healers sounds pretty nice. Sure, I'm not gonna win any medals for speed clearing those encounters but we can at least recover from mistakes from the cushion of extra healers.

So no, healing isn't "needed". But I'd much rather add a minute or two to my team's kill time on the boss rather than wiping over an over just to get a fast clear time. Again, I'm not going for records here I'm more focused on consistent clears and kills. And yes, while I could spend all my time playing GW2 and mastering the art of dodging everything like other gods in this fame and never getting hurt I'd much rather go outside and soak in some sun every now and then.

Ultimately, it all just boils down to what your team is comfortable with. Can you go Sanic fast with no healer? Go for it. Do you like not having high blood pressure and instead opt for a healer. That's totally fine too.

[Lalainnia.3598]

lol when spirit vale first came out u had nothing but tempests rebounding everything so ppl could figure out mechs. Literally no one used druids and especially revs with how horribly they used to function with tablet range and costs.

[Vinceman.4572]

@Sublimatio.6981 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Sublimatio.6981 said:healing in fractals is not needed. just because something works in a raid doesn't mean its good for fotm. nobody ran healing builds in 2014 and such, and fotm bosses were hitting way harder back then. only thing you need to take care of is to not walk into other people.

"Is not needed" is quite exaggerated. I'd rather have a healer on CM Viirastra, tyvm. And on a bunch of other places, too.

i'd rather have reflects and dodge/WSAD out of aoes. you're just lazy. besides if your dps is strong you dont have to deal with much aoes/projectiles, but if you have a "healing" leecher then your party dps drops and you get rekt by incoming damage.

Haven't seen a "healing" leecher for a long time. Maybe it's because I took over the role myself and could rescue some pretty nice rng stuff in fracs since. Of course, there are bad apples around everywhere. But back in the days when I pugged I met more necros playing awful than druids. There's a lot of necro folks around fractals and you won't be lucky to meet players like you (we met each other twice in the past).Most of the fractal players don't meet speed run standards + T4s are way more regularly played than back in the days and those folks are in the need of a druid at least for CMs.

[zealex.9410]

condi ps sure now its dps warr but druid is still a beast to take.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Sublimatio.6981 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Sublimatio.6981 said:healing in fractals is not needed. just because something works in a raid doesn't mean its good for fotm. nobody ran healing builds in 2014 and such, and fotm bosses were hitting way harder back then. only thing you need to take care of is to not walk into other people.

"Is not needed" is quite exaggerated. I'd rather have a healer on CM Viirastra, tyvm. And on a bunch of other places, too.

i'd rather have reflects and dodge/WSAD out of aoes. you're just lazy. besides if your dps is strong you dont have to deal with much aoes/projectiles, but if you have a "healing" leecher then your party dps drops and you get rekt by incoming damage.

Haven't seen a "healing" leecher for a long time. Maybe it's because I took over the role myself and could rescue some pretty nice rng stuff in fracs since. Of course, there are bad apples around everywhere. But back in the days when I pugged I met more necros playing awful than druids. There's a lot of necro folks around fractals and you won't be lucky to meet players like you (we met each other twice in the past).Most of the fractal players don't meet speed run standards + T4s are way more regularly played than back in the days and those folks are in the need of a druid at least for CMs.

Back in the days? Still enough terribad necros around in T4.

Have to agree, healers are not needed for T4 or challenge modes, but man do they make runs go smoother with pugs.

[Vinceman.4572]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Sublimatio.6981 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Sublimatio.6981 said:healing in fractals is not needed. just because something works in a raid doesn't mean its good for fotm. nobody ran healing builds in 2014 and such, and fotm bosses were hitting way harder back then. only thing you need to take care of is to not walk into other people.

"Is not needed" is quite exaggerated. I'd rather have a healer on CM Viirastra, tyvm. And on a bunch of other places, too.

i'd rather have reflects and dodge/WSAD out of aoes. you're just lazy. besides if your dps is strong you dont have to deal with much aoes/projectiles, but if you have a "healing" leecher then your party dps drops and you get rekt by incoming damage.

Haven't seen a "healing" leecher for a long time. Maybe it's because I took over the role myself and could rescue some pretty nice rng stuff in fracs since. Of course, there are bad apples around everywhere. But back in the days when I pugged I met more necros playing awful than druids. There's a lot of necro folks around fractals and you won't be lucky to meet players like you (we met each other twice in the past).Most of the fractal players don't meet speed run standards + T4s are way more regularly played than back in the days and those folks are in the need of a druid at least for CMs.

Back in the days? Still enough terribad necros around in T4.

Have to agree, healers are not needed for T4 or challenge modes, but man do they make runs go smoother with pugs.

"Back in the days" was referring to when I pugged regularly. ;)I'm sure you're right with the actual situation as well and I agree that healers are not needed in T4 but they make it more faceroll. For CMs I don't know, my experience with my static (no pro-players) and some rare pug runs it's getting ugly without a healer.

[Hex.2579]

@Zenith.7301 said:A healer is not a leech. He's allowing your DPS to do what they want unhindered. I'd rather bring my druid and heal a run that get some kitten Brazilians demanding 99 cm without healers and then the run takes 20 minutes longer because DPS is crap because half the DPS is constantly running for their lives and sitting at 20-30% hp or downed.

It's also kinda silly calling a healer a leech while sitting on a DPS who wants to shove all defensive responsibility such as reflects unto the chrono, so it is actually the DPS who are leeching off the chrono's capability to negate threats to them.

idk why but i lol so hard at this because it's true.in a few 100cm, on my chrono, i feel like being leeched cuz i have to pull adds, cc, distorts, manage reflects, not to mention have to keep up boons too.then a dps starts yelling pull pull pull at phase. i got pissed that time at arkk, i was like one more call and i'm out. then there was the silence until we got chest. lol.

for anyone who says "healing" is not needed, they probably play with their own gang only. if you play with enough pugs, yes, healing is always needed.

@Vinceman.4572 said:But back in the days when I pugged I met more necros playing awful than druids. There's a lot of necro folks around fractals and you won't be lucky to meet players like you (we met each other twice in the past).those players are still around. cuz they already geared up their necros for "fractals only", they continue to roll in for ez life.i was tirelessly rezzing two of my dear reaper and scourge pugs yesterday at cliffside. while sitting at >90% health and highest dps in group.and i'm thinking i cleanse their condis for them too, every 4s. like i just don't get it. to the point they wiped 3 times, and i had to say goodbye and good luck. lol.then restart the fractal with another set of pugs and we made it about 15 mins, which is still fast for pugs imo.and since scourge now clean condis so fast, i'd rather stay on a scourge than switch to a healer.was wanted to make a set for my healing ele and see if my scourge could use that set too. it'll be interesting.

[Yasi.9065]

Its the same as with raids, some people need a dedicated healer on Gorseval, others dont. For fractals I have both. A condi might stack druid (love it so much ^^) and a harrier druid. If the condi variant doesnt work, I switch to harrier and carry with big heals when people fail at mechanics.

My favourite fractals comp btw hasnt changed at all ^^. Druid, Condi War, Berserker Chrono, Weaver, DH. The only difference now... druid stacks might and fury instead of warrior.

I really like the change, I just wish we had more sources for groupwide fury, getting reduced to using tigerpet kinda sucks after having so much utility at my fingers before patch ;)

As for pug fractals... 1 druid is kinda best in slot still, but the warrior isnt anymore. Sure banners are nice, but you can do without, so that means, if you arent speedclearing, 4 dps + 1 harrier druid is a very solid comp now for raids. You can replace that one druid with a healing revenant, or to some extent with a d/wh tempest, but the druid is still the best variant imo. Healing holosmith is NOT a good build, contrary to people trying that in fractals yesterday (met at least 3 of them -.-)

[musu.9205]

@Yasi.9065 said:Its the same as with raids, some people need a dedicated healer on Gorseval, others dont. For fractals I have both. A condi might stack druid (love it so much ^^) and a harrier druid. If the condi variant doesnt work, I switch to harrier and carry with big heals when people fail at mechanics.

My favourite fractals comp btw hasnt changed at all ^^. Druid, Condi War, Berserker Chrono, Weaver, DH. The only difference now... druid stacks might and fury instead of warrior.

I really like the change, I just wish we had more sources for groupwide fury, getting reduced to using tigerpet kinda sucks after having so much utility at my fingers before patch ;)

As for pug fractals... 1 druid is kinda best in slot still, but the warrior isnt anymore. Sure banners are nice, but you can do without, so that means, if you arent speedclearing, 4 dps + 1 harrier druid is a very solid comp now for raids. You can replace that one druid with a healing revenant, or to some extent with a d/wh tempest, but the druid is still the best variant imo. Healing holosmith is NOT a good build, contrary to people trying that in fractals yesterday (met at least 3 of them -.-)

what i just read , healing holosmith ? how that even works?they have some group block , many boons and water field .but that's about it ? anet bugged Med Blaster or something ?

[Yasi.9065]

Well, I dont know how it was "supposed" to work, fact is... it didnt ^^ First time I met one, I was baffled as to how someone on a holosmith can actually do even less dps than me on harrier druid, didnt notice any extra healing but the pug group was bad, so I didnt think too much about it.

Next time I encountered one I switched to condi might druid, because no use in running two healers, right? Lets just say, it didnt end well.

And third time I was helping a friend get the last few fractals needed for achievement and played dh... holosmith was healing, according to him, my friend and I didnt get any of that prime healing though.

Now healing holosmiths are on my "avoid at all costs" list, even before bearbow rangers ^^ Id have to see a video of someone healing massively with that build before letting one join.

[LadyKitty.6120]

Kitty's actually tested healer-holosmith/engi in open-world metas like DS. Healer holo doesn't quite work, the only reason to use such would be for that booning holo-utility but it wasn't worth it. Thus, if someone for some reason wanted to heal on engi, Inventions/Alchemy/Tools seems to work best. With Harrier's, it even shares some fury and might by using Flame and Rifle turret, and elixir gun+mortar+med kit as rest of the utilities. Waiting for some testing in fractals, though. And ofc the playstyle (Kitty copy-pastad from some forum thread when she started playing it) is "mortar 5 - med kit 1 - elixir gun 5 - med kit 1 - repeat while spamming toolbelt skills". Those 5s off CD (instantly returning to med kit after launching them for 33% boost) and preferably blasting mortar 5 with F5 if possible.

[Shadow Chaser.1948]

After reading all these stuff. I feel like everyone who post here are ultra pro. And, they only play for gps.No wonder this game is doing not so hot with all these elites making new commerce scare shitless.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Kal Bhairav.6589 said:After reading all these stuff. I feel like everyone who post here are ultra pro. And, they only play for gps.No wonder this game is doing not so hot with all these elites making new commerce scare shitless.

Some will be experienced, some pro, some just normal gamers and some just theory talkers with no experience.

Then again, this is a gaming forum, who do you expect to frequent a forum in the first place? The super casual will very likely not even bother with visiting forums in the first place (as will a majority of the community).

As far as the game not doing so hot, that's personal subjective perception. If you are playing with an active guild I assure you, you will be having a blast.