Is there a reason to play elementalist ?

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Laken.9018 said:

Ranger is an medium armor class so I'd say no but an Ele should at least be on equal footing to either a Mesmer or a Necro who share the Light Armor type and thats nots what going on here.

Both those classes have more hp and overall do more damage easily than an Ele. and thats the problem.
I enjoy Ele's. I like the skills. Heck I find Catalyst fun but at the same time as mentioned prior the mountain to make the class work often makes me wonder if its worth it.

Every proffession should be balanced regardless of armour 

Weaver needs access to alacrity and catalysts quickness access needs to be buffed, I'd go one step further and give weaver 5 man  stability aswell

But yes sadly it's hard not to feel like your working twice as hard for the same DPS number effectively even if you get evened out your gonna feel like this. 

The easiest way to filter this would be to give elementalist a meta ranged build as generally that will offset alot of the difficulty naturally. Which would be a ideal way to maybe bridge the difficulty gap. 

I do to a extent beelive the skill disparity in this game is abit too wide however. 

I think it's mad we have speccs which don't even use weapon swap in optimal builds and imho that needs heavily dealing with this game oddly makes some speccs easy to the point you could consider them a hinderence to learning the game. 

[AliamRationem.5172]

9 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Every proffession should be balanced regardless of armour 

Weaver needs access to alacrity and catalysts quickness access needs to be buffed, I'd go one step further and give weaver 5 man  stability aswell

But yes sadly it's hard not to feel like your working twice as hard for the same DPS number effectively even if you get evened out your gonna feel like this. 

The easiest way to filter this would be to give elementalist a meta ranged build as generally that will offset alot of the difficulty naturally. Which would be a ideal way to maybe bridge the difficulty gap. 

I do to a extent beelive the skill disparity in this game is abit too wide however. 

I think it's mad we have speccs which don't even use weapon swap in optimal builds and imho that needs heavily dealing with this game oddly makes some speccs easy to the point you could consider them a hinderence to learning the game. 

I don't think weaver needs a support aspect, but it could really use some self-quickness rolled in for solo play and for covering itself in groups (weaver feels and performs sooo much better with quickness it's insane!) and a buff to power damage and sustain on power builds in particular.  Tempest and catalyst should have the critical boonshare.  It's weird that tempest doesn't have any of that.  Feels outdated since PoF.

I think staff obviously needs a rework, but I don't think ranged weapons are the answer for group sustain simply because ranged users are forced to stack for support.

I also think ele really needs to be compensated for the lack of a weapon swap at this point and an obvious candidate for that is a rework to conjured weapons so that they can better fill the gaps for each weapon set.  If I play sword, I should be able to reliably shift to a decent ranged option as needed.  I can't do that with the long cooldowns and stupid drop mechanics of current conjured weapons, to say nothing of how bad most of them are.

[Serephen.3420]

I think Ele is one of the most balanced classes in this game because of the choices it has to make to go into support, dps etc. Personally I think it's the other classes that should get balanced more like ele in its trade offs than the other way around.  (Though I would never say I wouldn't enjoy new shinies for ele😅)

[Puck.3697]

33 minutes ago, Serephen.3420 said:

I think Ele is one of the most balanced classes in this game because of the choices it has to make to go into support, dps etc. Personally I think it's the other classes that should get balanced more like ele in its trade offs than the other way around.  (Though I would never say I wouldn't enjoy new shinies for ele😅)

Anet claim apprantly Warrior is the balancing bar they use

but saying that warriors arent rly any better off then Elementalists in most senses xD its not all the proffessions however. warriors a good example of a second proffession which tends to get Trade offs more often and tend to ALOT Less meta (At the end of the day we are litterally only used for Banners in raids)

 

[Isshagal.3016]

6 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Should a elementalist be better then a ranger based on its complexity comparitively to ranger

Yes.

6 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

should a harder proffession do more DPS then a easier proffession? 

Yes.

Depends on how you define better.

Since Ranger has more Armor and HP, and always  present companion-(it's design advantage over elementalist) that should come with lower DPS, fewer targets cleaved or worse support than class with lower HP, Armor or no default Minion.

(Before HoT and druid introduction ranger was known as brainlet profession pve longbow  spammer.)

6 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Playing a easier proffession in a sense makes all content easier by default as your removing spinning plates each time u take s easier route. 

Then we're coming closer to "Play" instead of "game".

Additional mechanic should provide additional benefit, which can be measured/scored.

6 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Name a game which would directly ensure one class was more powerful then the other on the bases of its complexity.

It's almost industry standard when it comes to RPG.

From Baldurs, Icewinds, Neverwinters, PoE 1&2, etc 

Almost all heavy armored high HP professions require less setup, carefulness and knowledge/skill to execute and have much lower complexity than light multiskill casters.

Some games event warn you that some Proff combinations/options are not recommended for beginners.

Fps games like old Team Fortress 2 and modern equivalents.

Rocket jumping Soldier and event more Demoman have higher complexity than Heavy or Pyro w+M1 classes. And if executed  properly (!) yield greater results.

 

[Goettel.4389]

For me, just fun - which is the point of gaming AFAIK

I have not one but two support tempest mains, YMMV

[Isshagal.3016]

26 minutes ago, Goettel.4389 said:

For me, just fun - which is the point of gaming AFAIK

This might be an argument on horde small co-op game (vermintide, left4dead, etc)

Not in game with competition.

And event without sPvP and WvW where group/army of warriors and elementalists is decimated by hfb's/scrappers/scourges/FotM.

 

You will picked less for any content.

Because you'll execute the mechanics worse, have to get near Perfect condition to do rotation properly, and don't have group/carry potential.

Why take class when you can take class+n into your group?

 

And it's a non-argument here, where game mechanics, options and fairness of effort/skill/difficulty ratio is being discussed.

Im glad you have fun, but this declaration serves no purpose here.

 

[Puck.3697]

2 hours ago, Isshagal.3016 said:

It's almost industry standard when it comes to RPG.

From Baldurs, Icewinds, Neverwinters, PoE 1&2, etc 

Almost all heavy armored high HP professions require less setup, carefulness and knowledge/skill to execute and have much lower complexity than light multiskill casters.

Some games event warn you that some Proff combinations/options are not recommended for beginners.

Fps games like old Team Fortress 2 and modern equivalents.

Rocket jumping Soldier and event more Demoman have higher complexity than Heavy or Pyro w+M1 classes. And if executed  properly (!) yield greater results

These aren't mmorpgs. Ofcourse in those style games this exists. 

But in a mmorpg alike World of Warcraft and guild wars 2 this doesn't exist. 

Im sorry but this balancing doesn't exist and doesn't work in mmorpgs at all. In games such as those it makes sense. In gw2 it'd just brutally kill the game off the market. 

In a RPG, you being rewarded for playing a better class doesn't impact another player In a mmorpg it would, because the meta would push the hardest proffessions as the only classes. And allow no one else in. Which would push less capable players out of the game. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Puck.3697]

2 hours ago, Isshagal.3016 said:

This might be an argument on horde small co-op game (vermintide, left4dead, etc)

Not in game with competition.

And event without sPvP and WvW where group/army of warriors and elementalists is decimated by hfb's/scrappers/scourges/FotM.

 

You will picked less for any content.

Because you'll execute the mechanics worse, have to get near Perfect condition to do rotation properly, and don't have group/carry potential.

Why take class when you can take class+n into your group?

 

And it's a non-argument here, where game mechanics, options and fairness of effort/skill/difficulty ratio is being discussed.

Im glad you have fun, but this declaration serves no purpose here.

 

Untrue realistically. And when power weaver was meta it proved this. It was always taken. 

Ele gets invited less because Weavers a pure DPS that got it's DPS nerfed to equal the support options level. 

If you stripped renegade of 10 man alacrity in PoF and lobbed it into ele. You would have seen the numbers would jump to ele faster then life. 

Elementalists don't get invited because they don't have boons / fulfill a support role as this game never made a actual purpose for a pure DPSes existence. 

Ontop of that druid was just far more meta then tempest due to its great ability to deal with mechanics and provide more damage. 

And in mmorpgs there is no "fair effort to skill ratio" no where. 

2 people walk into drakkar. 1 AFKS entire event walks away with loot while the other did 10k DPS consistently for nothing. 

Some dude out there progressing with raids with the other dude swipes a credit card and buys all legendary armour. 

Mmorpgs are never ever ever fair effort to skill ratio, they never are. Because a mmorpgs job is the get as many people into it as humanly possible. 

This game has to be able to both facilitate someone with a physical disability and a pro level gamer. 

Your argument is simply untrue Meta builds that are harder to play, are still taken massively.. when ele was meta back in HoT they got taken. No questions asked. 

The problem is elementalist is underpowered. And tbh even then no ones booting me out of their groups of I join squad with mine. 

Not to mention you stack alot of problems in this. 

As a example. Due to how many game modes there are, nothings statically the hardest to play, as a example. Meta builds for elementalist tend to be very easy to play. 

I.E fire weaver. 

The difficulty difference between power and Condi weaver is huge. 

Then you have personal opinons to what is and isn't harder then one another. 

It just simply won't work lol 

This is not a industry standard in a mmorpg. Never has been never will be, wildstar tried to push your mindset and collasped within months popularity wise 

There are not enough hardcore players in the mmorpg genre to allow gw2 to survive the mass bleed of casual players in the events this would be done 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Mortime.1359]

I used to be an elementalist main. I had all the story done on my elementalist before EoD. So when Eod launched I wanted to try something else. Rolled out my engineer, did the entire EoD story and was like yeah this is fun. Then went on my necromancer, he is currently 2/3 done with the story. I mean you literally can't go wrong playing necromancer, they always have great builds and  fun gameplay. Finally yesterday I decided to take my elementalist through the story of EoD. I lasted 5 hours on him before I swapped back to my engineer. Holy hell did I feel weak. And I mean it didn't matter if I went with my celestial or berserker set, I just felt so weak compared to my engineer and necromancer. This made me sad, I am now sad. That is all.

[Avatara.1042]

I like pain.

[Arheundel.6451]

On 3/7/2022 at 7:04 PM, Daddy.8125 said:

Summer patch was stated in the news article they launched talking about banner and spirits rework. 

Although no confirmination to what changes to expect just they mention skill / trait reworks and major changes as being why they're delayed 

Yeah...the legendary patch that will save the game....legends sayevery year we hear about this legendary patch which is apparently always behind the corner...after 5 years of the same story..this legendary patch hasn't shown up 

[Puck.3697]

6 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Yeah...the legendary patch that will save the game....legends sayevery year we hear about this legendary patch which is apparently always behind the corner...after 5 years of the same story..this legendary patch hasn't shown up 

What u mean in PoF? They never said they were ever gonna drop patch's because they weren't even developing patch's. 

 

 

[Shiyo.3578]

• Healer that doesn't give quickness or alacrity
• "Support" that requires standing in a single spot and gives a single boon
• Selfish DPS that does around the same damage as supports with ZERO ranged option

No reason to touch this class. Play Revenant, eng or guard.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Shiyo.3578

[SeTect.5918]

3 hours ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

• Selfish DPS that does around the same damage as supports with ZERO ranged option

And 0 sustain which leads to a dps loss because of higher dodge uptime / less dps uptime. Its an dps loss to have less sustain basically. 

Agree. Sad ele life. at least its fun to play. 

[Flori.2194]

Play it for the look, the animations, the gameplay, the fashion or whatever, but don't play it for endgame content. Do some open world kitten or run around in wvw, do your daily pvp, sure, play ele. If you want to play any gamemode dedicated and seriously, you should main a different class (I love my ele, it's my main, but I play guard in wvw and renegade in raids/fractals).

[Bunny.9834]

They should have not nerfed the damage on Meteor Shower, Frost Bow, and Glyph of Storm. 
 

Ele Staff is stuck in 2012 and needs to be updated to now. 

[Jski.6180]

2 hours ago, DragonSlayer.1087 said:

They should have not nerfed the damage on Meteor Shower, Frost Bow, and Glyph of Storm. 
 

Ele Staff is stuck in 2012 and needs to be updated to now. 

They nerfed hit box base dmg but then add even more in just as bad as anet removing added combo effects and then they added in more. What makes it worst is anet did not go back and fix there nerfs after they simply re-added it in a kind of nerf what players use to use to get them to use the new effect exclusively. There is something out right wrong with the anet devs.

[gduber.9756]

 

I remember how much I loved Ele in GW1 and how much I was looking forward to having a ranged caster in GW2.  Yeah, imo Anet completely botched it.  Every video guide I've seen has elementalist in melee range to perform, and the game already has too many melee options (virtually every profession is melee to some degree, even rangers, which I see as a major overall design flaw),.  Nobody familiar with rpgs thinks 'melee range' when they think of light armor caster professions  I atually gave it a chance, but my ele has been shelved for years, unless one considers bank tab a profession in this game.  I love this game but ele's design is one of the biggest disappointments.

[Ragnarox.9601]

I like elementalist, it was my first class in this game before I mained guardian for years. And now I am bored by guardian and came back to ele. Bought 2x legendary 3rd gen daggers and now I am enhancement shaman from wow, and waiting for different aurene leggies to come-fire and water one. 

[tekfan.3179]

There is no reason to play elementalist unless you like to be disappointed.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

You play Elementalist when you like to do so. It's that simple. You shouldn't select a profession based on benchmarks, but because the profession appeals to you and/or you like its gameplay.

 

There may be balance issues as with some other professions and if that discourages you from playing Ele, just make a second char. Are there other professions that deliver similar DPS with easier rotations or higher DPS with the same rotation difficulty? Probably. But no reason not to play Ele.

[SeTect.5918]

20 minutes ago, tekfan.3179 said:

There is no reason to play elementalist unless you like to be disappointed.

I can agree.
The answer to the title of this topic is: No, except to get disappointed and maybe for some animations.

[SeTect.5918]

1 minute ago, TheQuickFox.3826 said:

You play Elementalist when you like to do so. It's that simple. You shouldn't select a profession based on benchmarks, but because the profession appeals to you and/or you like its gameplay.

 

There may be balance issues as with some other professions and if that discourages you from playing Ele, just make a second char. Are there other professions that deliver similar DPS with easier rotations or higher DPS with the same rotation difficulty? Probably. But no reason not to play Ele.

Well yes, I like ele bc of the animations and Weaver gameplay.

But with each update they are moving it to a direction where the fun moves away more and more.
Nerfs over nerfs.

Weaver and Tempest may still be "okay", Weaver is actually pretty nice still, but...
...with Catalyst they are moving into a direction where its no reason to play it. It has terrible, terrible sustain, a fully clunky mechanic and rotation, a far too hard way to keep up ur crit chance and other stats and so on.

People did expect to get some nice changes.

Here is how it went for me:
*I saw the first update*
"Sadge...no profession skill changes"
*I saw the 2nd update*
"Nice, there are profession skill updates"
"Okay a nerf, fine"
"okay another...nerf"
"another...."
"Where are the buffs and changes we actually wanted?"
"Another nerf..."
"What did they just put into the game?"
"Are they actually reading the forum? There was only negative Feedback and even tons of constructive feedback with nice suggestions and telling what should happen. Why does it seem that they fully ignored this? Why does it seem like just balanced around a benchmark? Why does Catalyst get nerfed to under 40k while Half of Eod e specs are still above and offer far more support and sustain?"

This was my reaction.

This topic was created after Eod release so it may be that its mainly about Catalyst and thats how i take it.

Catalyst animations are not bad, really not bad.
But its poorly designed because its just a mix of weaver and tempest and the traits dont synergize with the weapon. Aside from that its horribly balanced, as you can feel in the last update. Sustain wasnt existant, they just nerfed it.
Making main issues even bigger issues and so on.

I see this thread as "Is there any reason to play Catalyst?". And the answer clearly is: No there isnt aside of animations.
To the question if theres a reason to play ele: Yes, it still offers good dps as weaver, thats it tho.

[Izithel.6853]

For an Elementalist to bring  something usefull to a group it does so by sacrificing almost everything else while having some of the most unforgiving rotations to achieve that potential.  
Meanwhile their fragility and difficult rotations mean even the best players are likely to be more of a burden on the group than anything else. 
 

Meanwhile almost every other class is able to bring some combination of (passable) DPS, Healing, 1 or more Important Boons, or class Unique buffs to the group.  

There is no point to playing Ele in Group content.