One shot Harbinger?

[LordHT.8297]

I was playing full minstrel spellbreaker and I got a 20k+ hit from a harbinger 
https://i.imgur.com/Dzrn8mN.jpg  

Edited March 8, 2022 by Tiagoht.7549

[Shroud.2307]

Yes.

But let's also not forget.

[Dawdler.8521]

Meanwhile we met a bladesworn yesterday that barely took any damage from both power and condi, instantly healed up that damage with 25 stacks of perma might and evaded/was invoulnerable half the time. All while doing a ridiculous amount of damage.

As I mentioned before it even released, the WvW content of EoD is horrible balance for the next 6 months, at least.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Dawdler.8521

[Grand Marshal.4098]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Meanwhile we met a bladesworn yesterday that barely took any damage from both power and condi, instantly healed up that damage with 25 stacks of perma might and evaded/was invoulnerable half the time. All while doing a ridiculous amount of damage.

As I mentioned before it even released, the WvW content of EoD is horrible balance for the next 6 months, at least.

Let's thank anet for that Tactics/Strength Bladesworn crap! 

 

As if the spec wasn't bad, it abuses core so core will get nerfed! 

[Svarty.8019]

Don't worry everybody, they committed way back in September to fixing this stuff.

 

Quote

after the expansion releases, we’ll be dedicating design resources to overseeing profession balance for the Live game in a full-time capacity, supporting PvE, PvP, and WvW. This will allow us to deliver balance updates on a much more consistent cadence.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/studio-update-world-restructuring-and-the-future-of-world-vs-world/

[Faccina.5091]

9 hours ago, Shroud.2307 said:

Yes.

But let's also not forget.

that ranger damage means potato armor and no protection and he was full attack with buffs

with celestial armor zerk bow and marauder jewels i do 300-600 on mages 500-1000 to heavy

[Shroud.2307]

35 minutes ago, Faccina.5091 said:

that ranger damage means potato armor and no protection and he was full attack with buffs

with celestial armor zerk bow and marauder jewels i do 300-600 on mages 500-1000 to heavy

Bullsh

You know how I know? Because I play Ranger too. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Shroud.2307

[Faccina.5091]

link build then

[Shroud.2307]

23 minutes ago, Faccina.5091 said:

link build then

Idk why you're defending this and not even questioning the OP about being hit for 20k in Minstrel. Seems a little suspicious.

I don't want to see people throwing a fit over this while other things have been getting away it for years. At least there's risk involved in doing that kind of damage with Harbinger, unlike DH with the casual 2 shots and trap damage, or Soulbeast blasting people 100 - 0 from a mile away, or Scrapper stealth one shotting with Grenade Barrage, etc.

Harbi damage is busted, I'm not defending that. I just don't want to see people fixating on it while other better things are left untouched.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Shroud.2307

[Faccina.5091]

20k is too high like the 15k gunflame, whatever spammable trap 5k/hit, 1sec drop 5kburn/tick, 7k/hit from permahide, etc...

and i asked for the build cuz you said burrushitto

[Legend of Rogue.5394]

13 hours ago, Tiagoht.7549 said:

I was playing full minstrel spellbreaker and I got a 20k+ hit from a harbinger 
https://i.imgur.com/Dzrn8mN.jpg  

Oh ye I procc'd a 40k the other day. It's hysterical

[Xenesis.6389]

Well there's at least one thing we know in all this... the harbinger is sure to get nerfed to the ground at some point because they're a necro, which has a long family line of nerfs.

[Mabi black.1824]

of course if we want to play together 1v1 or 2v2 or whatever you want if with a click you make me 20k of damage I think we will have fun just for a couple of seconds.

personally I think that any profession that has this type of paramtro clearly a little over the top should be corrected.

maximum health : 19k

healing ability : 6k

vs.

Damage ability : 20k

do you also see that something is not working?

 

 

[coro.3176]

13 hours ago, Shroud.2307 said:

Yes.

But let's also not forget.

Conflicted thoughts on this.

• It's not as bad when a melee skill with a long animation hits this hard, especially when it's not out of stealth or quicknessed. You can see it coming and dodge much more easily
• But literal 1HKO damage is still too much
• Soulbeast cheese is frustrating, but if you dodge it, it feels like you have a real chance to pressure them and win. If Harbinger is going to hit that hard, you should get a similar counterattack advantage after avoiding the big hit
• What makes a burst build oppressive is the combination of must-dodge abilities in a short window of time. If you must dodge 4 different skills within 10 seconds or else lose, and you only have 2 dodges, RIP
• Don't have enough experience fighting Harb to weigh in on that yet

Edited March 8, 2022 by coro.3176

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Voracious_Arc

 

that was this skill. it does normally far less dmg than that. was app a crit and idk if the torment was counted into those 20k. further, u've seemingly been hard cc'd in a well and 20k wouldn't have even closely "one-shotted" a MINSTREL WARRIOR bro xD u have like 30k HP on that class

 

harbinger skills have quite some input delay, it's possible to avoid a solid amount of dmg or press disengage/heal skills normally.

 

@coro.3176 it simply IS NOT a oneshot. no minstrel spb in the world can get ontapped by pesky 20k. that class is nearly unkillable and has a way bigger healthpool. of the heavy classes, it has the biggest base HP count.

 

besides, this was very likely a full blight loaded harbinger, so it had themselves barely any HP. u run with around -12.000 HP  at 25 stacks blight i think

Edited March 9, 2022 by kamikharzeeh.8016

[subversiontwo.7501]

11 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

@coro.3176 it simply IS NOT a oneshot. no minstrel spb in the world can get ontapped by pesky 20k. that class is nearly unkillable and has a way bigger healthpool. of the heavy classes, it has the biggest base HP count.

As always, this topic would benefit from people talking about the real stats rather than anecdotes. It doesn't have to devolve into bickering over math details, I think anyone is capable of reading a simple tooltip and realizing that there are balance issues on some of the Harbinger abilities.

However, adressing that is as simple as noticing that some of its abilities have number and effect combinations that goes out of the frames they set for themselves and then adjusting a number a spreadsheet. It will get fixed, eventually.

My only real concern with balance is that adding more and more complexity to it means needing to divert more and more attention to managing it while as with other things regarding both PvP modes the studio has a history of just talking about and never really putting their money where their mouth is.

Edited March 9, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[ArchonWing.9480]

Yea, the damage potential of a Harbringer seems very high and they just don't test it outside of pve. . Even in Celestial Gear it seems to hit pretty hard.  You could probably get a lot of boosted damage with the elite that gives you all boons which necro usually isn't able to generate.

The leap is question even has the same coefficients as pve and seems to break the "rule" that CCs should do almost no damage. But, It is very telegraphed.

Or it could be a bug.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Voracious_Arc

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[TheGrimm.5624]

22 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Yea, the damage potential of a Harbringer seems very high and they just don't test it outside of pve. . Even in Celestial Gear it seems to hit pretty hard.  You could probably get a lot of boosted damage with the elite that gives you all boons which necro usually isn't able to generate.

The leap is question even has the same coefficients as pve and seems to break the "rule" that CCs should do almost no damage. But, It is very telegraphed.

Or it could be a bug.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Voracious_Arc

 

 

I think its the same issue that every other issue has been and its the way that bonus damage multipliers are applied one at a time versus just being added up and multiplied once. And if it is, then its tools that are already around in the core traits and sigils as well as the new ones. 

 

This build, move everything up to 25 stacks, then if you take that the OP had 25 stacks of vul on them and were below 50% health I show something around 21K against a heavy armor target (armor of 2681 per the site). Now it also means that this Harb would have been quite squishy itself. So the answer to all Necro issues remain, bring a Ranger friend along. 🙂 

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSgAoilhyuYssUWLOSLaxKA-zVRYWBPHNsxoZCUpAcfQCjeLjtpB-w

 

 

On 3/9/2022 at 1:30 PM, subversiontwo.7501 said:

As always, this topic would benefit from people talking about the real stats rather than anecdotes. It doesn't have to devolve into bickering over math details, I think anyone is capable of reading a simple tooltip and realizing that there are balance issues on some of the Harbinger abilities.

 

 

I know you said don't go there but I was curious, so I wanted to see how the base version of the attack could get ramped up. Agree, I would expect tuning on all the new builds but not until ANet has seen what crazy builds players can pull off. 

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

Mind you, that does still mean it wasn't a one button hit, it would have been a string of abilities and other factors like combat was already under way.

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 

I think its the same issue that every other issue has been and its the way that bonus damage multipliers are applied one at a time versus just being added up and multiplied once. And if it is, then its tools that are already around in the core traits and sigils as well as the new ones. 

 

This build, move everything up to 25 stacks, then if you take that the OP had 25 stacks of vul on them and were below 50% health I show something around 21K against a heavy armor target (armor of 2681 per the site). Now it also means that this Harb would have been quite squishy itself. So the answer to all Necro issues remain, bring a Ranger friend along. 🙂 

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSgAoilhyuYssUWLOSLaxKA-zVRYWBPHNsxoZCUpAcfQCjeLjtpB-w

 

A minstrel class has around 3400 armor, so that's (3400-2600)/2600 = ~0.27so it would see 27% less damage vs a 2681 target. Which would still be a good 15k or so.

Suppose the necro in question was probably full zerker or something and took Soul Reaping  for Soul Barbs and Death Perception.

Edited March 10, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[TheGrimm.5624]

23 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

A minstrel class has around 3400 armor, so that's (3400-2600)/2600 = ~0.27so it would see 27% less damage vs a 2681 target. Which would still be a good 15k or so.

Suppose the necro in question was probably full zerker or something and took Soul Reaping  for Soul Barbs and Death Perception.

 

Thanks for that 3400 factor, I run on the tanky side but haven't run minstrels so was going to have check that.

[Junkpile.7439]

They probably nerf all core traits so harbringer does less damage. 🤦‍♂️

[God.2708]

Voracius arc has a 2.8 power mod conditionally.

It goes against anets recent patch change where 2.0 was meant to be the 'bar'.

Honestly seems pretty clear cut to me. Reduce the % increase due to blight if dropping the base damage to 1.0 feels bad. Think that's still in the realm of allowable skill splits.

[DeceiverX.8361]

On 3/9/2022 at 4:24 PM, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Yea, the damage potential of a Harbringer seems very high and they just don't test it outside of pve. . Even in Celestial Gear it seems to hit pretty hard.  You could probably get a lot of boosted damage with the elite that gives you all boons which necro usually isn't able to generate.

The leap is question even has the same coefficients as pve and seems to break the "rule" that CCs should do almost no damage. But, It is very telegraphed.

Or it could be a bug.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Voracious_Arc

 

Damage is doubled over the blight limit as described when downing an elixir.  It's a 2.8 damage coef.  More than a full Soul Spiral.

15% more than pre-feb-2020 backstab and only 7% less than T3 eviscerate before it was nerfed, too. 

If anything, 20k is kind of low with how much might and ferocity Necro has access to in shroud.  All it really suggests is that the opponent didn't have protection going considering the three aforementioned skills have eclipsed 30k per cast on actual squishy builds.

Edited March 11, 2022 by DeceiverX.8361

[ArchonWing.9480]

3 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 

Thanks for that 3400 factor, I run on the tanky side but haven't run minstrels so was going to have check that.

Well, that's why I gave the number so you didn't have to. xD

You should probably try soul reaping 1-1-2 over Curses though since you don't have any condi damage and Awaken the Pain actually reduces the amount of condi damage from might in exchange for more power.

Edited March 11, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480