Meta + Strike Missions = Turtle. No thank you.

[Healix.5819]

38 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

A period in which the studio released only easy OW content such as festivals, community events like Boss Rush/Fractal Rush and Grothmar Valley (A map with less threatening ambient combat than Queensdale). This is the period that shows revenue for the game all the way up to and including the Prologue of Icebrood.

That was also when strikes started.

[WRay.2391]

I unlocked turtle, but this didn't give me any excitement. Unlocking skyscale or griffon was much more fun and frustration free. Plus it's indeed turned me off from EoD content. Feels like a spit in the face after buying an expansion to have some fun and realizing that you just got another job and you paid for it 😐

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, Healix.5819 said:

That was also when strikes started.

Yeah. the down- and uptick of players, unlike some think, does not really show much corellation with what type of content was being offered then. It does show that however with several other messages Anet was sending to players however: first, for downtick, the layoffs, the "no expansion in the work" information and MO leaving, and then, for upick, the information that a new expansion is in the works, further info on that, and the "return to..." campaign.

Fun fact: it seems that the most important thing for players was not the presence (or lack) of high-end content, but the simple issue of belief of whether this game had a future or not.

And, of course, as i have already mentioned, WoW issues spread a lot of players from that game to other MMORPGs, and GW2 was one of the games that benefitted. WoW having issues as big as they've had is hardly thanks to what Anet devs were doing, however.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[yoni.7015]

2 hours ago, WRay.2391 said:

I unlocked turtle, but this didn't give me any excitement. Unlocking skyscale or griffon was much more fun and frustration free.

Me neither. I didn’t think it would be so easy and fast to get and that I would have the turtle after the first week of the expansion. 
The outcry would be much louder if they made it as expensive as the griffon or as time consuming as the skyscale. 
You can’t please  everyone. 

[aspirine.6852]

2 hours ago, WRay.2391 said:

I unlocked turtle, but this didn't give me any excitement. Unlocking skyscale or griffon was much more fun and frustration free. Plus it's indeed turned me off from EoD content. Feels like a spit in the face after buying an expansion to have some fun and realizing that you just got another job and you paid for it 😐

Same. The strike mission was the worst. Not the mechanics, but I felt like the foes had too much health. I think Minister Li health was ok, the three minions after that need to have like a third less, and the mech and the sniper needs to be cut in half.  Those 2 were the most boring part of the strike. 

[Zok.4956]

9 hours ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

Covid 19 is why revenue decreased in q4 2019?

Is Covid 19 the reason Mike Z was sent packing after leading the company down this road too?

Despite this being months before the first recorded case outside China?

You should ask Anet and Mike Z. why he silently left the company and why the studio did not communicate that timely  and did not assign a new game director ASAP.

The massive layoffs in 2019, the strange event when Anet/Mike Z. announced the Saga and that there will be no expansion, but only "expansion worth" content, not delivering to that promise, the bad monetization of the build templates/loadouts etc. can all be seen as reasons, why the game was, in a way, in a downward spiral until the end of 2019.

And then around Q1/2020 Covid-19 happened all over the place and the studio announced a new expansion. Maybe this was already enough to stop the downward spiral. That the announcement of an expansion can have a big positive impact is maybe the reason why they now already have announced that there will be a next expansion, sometime in the far future.

That Covid-19 had a big impact on increasing player numbers is confirmed by Anet:

"Active players are defined as those who log fully into the game and load into a map. Our growth over the last three years is largely driven by new players coming to the game and the return of veteran players. A lot of live service games saw significant growth during the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic. We've been able to sustain that growth well into 2022. (...) Players with alt accounts are a very small percentage of our overall player base." - Josh Davies in PC-Gamer.

So, that Alt-accounts are the reason for the increased player numbers is disproved (I believe Anet/Josh).

But what happended, besides Covid-19, in 2021 that they were able to "sustain that growth well into 2022"?   I can remember a few things like the end of the IBS in April, the expansion is getting closer, better communication to the player base, the new Legendary Armory, more focus on WvW (the WvW betas) and the chilled "living world return to" events that gave free unlocking of old episodes, lots of loot, a free legendary trinket and a free precursor for a legy weapon, etc.

Some revenue timeline:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/685436537827098645/956191384333877248/gw2-sales-2012-2021.jpg

So, your claim, that the reason for the decreasing player numbers is the studios focus on "chill open world content" and that the numbers only doubled because they (allegedly) changed the course away from that into more challenging PvE content is not proved. And I think from the above, it's even disproved.

 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Zok.4956

[Tachenon.5270]

Strike mission, you say? Strike mission. Heh. Farming/buying the veggies is enough of an impediment for me! I went looking for kale last night and almost fell asleep at the keyboard. Just because there's no sword swinging combat involved doesn't mean its not a boring grind to get to the fun stuff. Because it is. Boring. And grindy. And not much fun. As for buying the veggies off the TP, pfft. After all the gold I've spent in the past couple of weeks chasing DPS (and support stuff) so that my characters aren't casually holding everybody else back? Pfft! I say again, pfft!

No, thank you.

/e deep thought -- I wonder what the Turtleman would think of all this...

 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Tachenon.5270
speeling

[Quench.7091]

After the meta adjustments, it feels better now. I've been trying to do the meta daily, although I have one criticism now. It's of the preparation buff.

Commanders should consider closing their groups from LFG once their map has a timer on it! A ton of players who join late will refuse to push for the 10 stacks of preparation buffs. Everyone who has stayed upon a map during the prep work usually obtains all 10 stacks. The people who join late are usually the people who've done no prep work and end up AFKing until the meta event starts. These players behave like Dragon's End is like Dragon's Stand. 20% more damage is enough to get past the last 20% HP of Soo-Won! That's the HP that failing groups tend to get stuck on.

However, I do empathize with the late joiners. When I get back home from work, it sucks seeing that the Dragon's End 1 hour long meta event starts in 30 minutes. Players can't usually do 10 events within those last 30 minutes, as the events kind of stop for the last 5 minutes, so late joiners need to wait for a fresh map to start earning the 10 stacks needed for the event. This is about 1 hour and 30 minutes out of 2 hours where players aren't supposed to join a map doing the meta! The developers should consider adding the prep buffs to the chain events that occur just before the final boss fight. This would greatly broaden the timeframe that players could join and still earn 10 stacks.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Quench.7091

[Mike D.3047]

These forums, reddit and in-game chat are perfect examples why the turtle strike was a bad idea (more accurate might be to say badly implemented). I am sure that it is not actually as hard as my experience in it has been. But never have I seen so much toxicity from both sides. People shaming and name calling people for having it. Some of the ones having it being quite condescending and trying to shame people for not having it. LFG having 300+Li requirements and whatnot for the trike (I assume this is actually some people just speed-farming strikes and want to make sure casuals don't come..?). I was much more fine with the egg being only available from the meta than I am with the strike.  This toxic divide just isn't in any way helpful to the community.

[WRay.2391]

2 hours ago, Quench.7091 said:

Commanders should consider closing their groups from LFG once their map has a timer on it! A ton of players who join late will refuse to push for the 10 stacks of preparation buffs. Everyone who has stayed upon a map during the prep work usually obtains all 10 stacks. The people who join late are usually the people who've done no prep work and end up AFKing until the meta event starts. These players behave like Dragon's End is like Dragon's Stand. 20% more damage is enough to get past the last 20% HP of Soo-Won! That's the HP that failing groups tend to get stuck on.

I do understand the sentiment, agree that ppl should push for 10 stacks. But consider a lot of ppl joining after meta failure and already having 10 stacks from previous attempt. When I was doing multiple re-tries I needed like 1 event to refresh duration and that's it. At least in this area grind was possible to avoid.

[WRay.2391]

9 hours ago, yoni.7015 said:

Me neither. I didn’t think it would be so easy and fast to get and that I would have the turtle after the first week of the expansion. 
The outcry would be much louder if they made it as expensive as the griffon or as time consuming as the skyscale. 
You can’t please  everyone. 

I'm with you here. I would accept more lengthy but less frustration process. They shouldn't advertise turtle on expansion though, griffon and skyscale was semi-hidden. Even warclaw acquisition is better than turtle although also not exciting. Turtle so far is the worst mount introduction for me.

[Sobx.1758]

20 hours ago, ScottBroChill.3254 said:

edit: also love the confused reaction. add's a lot in terms of what aspect is confusing you when I wrote a paragraph explaining my opinions. If you want to debate, debate. If this is really that confusing, go watch videos that teach you how to beat things. 

No worries, this thread is an outlet for people that came to the forum specifically to complain about something -currently, it doesn't matter what exactly you write and how correct or incorrect you are, the "confused" reaction emotes will be spammed at you whenever you go against the desired echo chamber of "make that reward easier to acquire" solely as a way for those people to cope. It's blatantly obvious, if only by the way those reaction emotes are spammed "in waves" throughout multiple posts on multiple pages within less than a minute the moment they understand you disagree with what they say. 😄

Edited March 23, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

14 hours ago, WRay.2391 said:

I unlocked turtle, but this didn't give me any excitement. Unlocking skyscale or griffon was much more fun and frustration free. Plus it's indeed turned me off from EoD content. Feels like a spit in the face after buying an expansion to have some fun and realizing that you just got another job and you paid for it 😐

I'm wondering how one event and one instance could turn you away from the whole EoD content, especially when you've already unlocked the reward you've wanted and are free to just not go back to the content you apparently dislike?

I'm also wondering how a concept of "complete x content to get y reward" is in any way out of ordinary for a game (that you understandably paid for) and how that automatically means "it's another job"? It wasn't and it isn't, that's just how games normally and reasonably work.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

(...)

Complete lack of answer to anything said in this thread, while reverting right into these weird unsubstantiated insults don't make you right. If anything, it proves the opposite.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

6 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Complete lack of answer to anything said in this thread, while reverting right into these weird unsubstantiated insults don't make you right. If anything, it proves the opposite.

That's exactly the post I've quoted though, good thing you understand well what you've done.
On the topic though, OP is correct in that regard, what else is needed to be said here? Mount being locked behind that type of content is a bit nono in long run, it's like A-net has decided that glider mastery from HoT would only be unlocked after clearing all raid wings.

[yoni.7015]

13 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

There is a huge difference between clearing all raid wings and doing one strike mission. Gliding was essential for HoT, the turtle isn’t essential for EoD. 

Edited March 23, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Sobx.1758]

48 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Mount being locked behind that type of content is a bit nono in long run, it's like A-net has decided that glider mastery from HoT would only be unlocked after clearing all raid wings.

Why exactly is it a nono in a long run? As pointed out above (as well as already earlier in the thread, possibly multiple times) gliding locks your progress in HoT, turtle does not. One has nothing to do with the other, so that comparison just doesn't work. Trying to compare an easier SM (which you get introduced to when playing through the story) to "clearing all raid wings" is equally dishonest as the comparison to the gliding.

Maybe if you'd bother reading through the thread (maybe "even" answering to something, explaining why you think something's incorrect), you'd understand why I said what I did, since dropping these disconnected comparisons and trying to draw a false narrative ("EoD doesn't explain anything", "EoD is much harder than the game was up until now and there's no content for me anymore", "need hours on discored to play group content", "completing content for a reward in a game makes it a job" to name just a few) is rather prevalent here. At that point, spamming confused emotes while knowing those things are incorrect is nothing else than an attempt at coping with facts they dislike.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Astralporing.1957]

37 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

There is a huge difference between clearing all raid wings and doing one strike mission. 

A difference in degree maybe, but not in the underlying principle.

[yoni.7015]

3 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

A difference in degree maybe, but not in the underlying principle.

It’s a huge difference. you can’t really compare gliding in HoT and the turtle in EoD. And between clearing all raid wings and doing one strike mission is a huge difference. The comparison is as stupid as all the food comparisons we had in this thread. 
 

Edited March 23, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Astralporing.1957]

3 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

It’s a huge difference. you can’t really compare gliding in HoT and the turtle in EoD. And between clearing all raid wings and doing one strike mission is a huge difference. The comparison is as stupid as all the food comparisons we had in this thread.

Okay, i'll bite. At how many instances exactly does it turn from being okay into problematic?

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Okay, i'll bite. At how many instances exactly does it turn from being okay into problematic?

If you claim "you'll bite", then "bite" an actual claim that was made and you know you're wrong about. One locks progression, the other doesn't. If you don't unlock gliding, you can't complete the story (and get into certain zones), something probably majority of people go through first, since it introduces you to the new zones and events -both in expansions and LWs. The turtle is a toy that is irrelevant in making a progress in the story or game itself, you're not locked out of anything if you decide to not go for the turtle unlock. That comparison is bad and "the underlying principle" is clearly different here, which is exactly the point being made above.

If you wanted a "valid comparison to gliders" that influences progress in eod, it would be skiff or jadebot at best -and in that regard nothing in EoD changed, as opposed to what some people try to claim here.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Excursion.9752]

Just the other day I joined a LFG that read "I'm new and I want the Turtle Please Help!"

Joined them took 2 hours and on our successful run I had over 60+ resurrections with my Heal Scourge but we got the job done.

Regardless if you enjoy the content or not, or if you are not good, you have to perform the task and stop defeating yourself by putting barriers up in your mind. All you really have to do it is one time and that is not horrible in my book. Especially when there are people out there that don't mind helping. You just got to be upfront with people on where you are at so they don't make any assumptions about you. 

[Astralporing.1957]

11 minutes ago, Excursion.9752 said:

Just the other day I joined a LFG that read "I'm new and I want the Turtle Please Help!"

Joined them took 2 hours and on our successful run I had over 60+ resurrections with my Heal Scourge but we got the job done.

Regardless if you enjoy the content or not, or if you are not good, you have to perform the task and stop defeating yourself by putting barriers up in your mind. All you really have to do it is one time and that is not horrible in my book. Especially when there are people out there that don't mind helping. You just got to be upfront with people on where you are at so they don't make any assumptions about you. 

As someone that followed that very principle and farmed the whole 3 envoy sets from raids. I can tell you that in the end it's still a losing game. If you dislike the content enough, then no matter how much you'd want the reward locked behind it, going for it will decrease your enjoyment of the game. And not just shortterm, but more like permanently.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[Excursion.9752]

8 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

As someone that followed that very principle and farmed the whole 3 envoy sets from raids. I can tell you that in the end it's still a losing game. If you dislike the content enough, then no matter how much you'd want the reward locked behind it, going for it will decrease your enjoyment of the game. And not just shortterm, but more like permanently.

While I understand where you are coming from I don't think 1 instance kill compares to the 750 kills you forced yourself through. That is a lot to push through and its understandable the disdain you probably have for such content because you absorbed so much of it. While for me back in the day Path 4 Arah was my nemesis. But I did it once and never looked back. Now ask me what I remember about that 1 run. The answer, not much. It was forgettable much like most people will do once they get their clear, they will forget about it.

[Astralporing.1957]

21 minutes ago, Excursion.9752 said:

It was forgettable much like most people will do once they get their clear, they will forget about it.

Until this will happen again, and they will realize that it was their participation in that content that supported Anet's mistaken idea that this is something that actually can persuade people to change their gameplay likes and dislikes.

I am less jaded about this specific case, and more about it being a process that keeps going forward, pushing that type of content more and more and more with every iteration.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Astralporing.1957