Given the Untamed's player reception, can we get some feedback from Anet?

[Androuil.1963]

I've been checking out the forums of the Untamed spec and since the first beta, the VAST majority of people have been unhappy with it... I'm just curious on how Anet is receiving / perceiving this feedback and any possible future plans for the spec....

Summary of some feedback I personally agree with:

 

1. Very low damage not much condi synergy
2. meant to be a WvW spec but relies on pet which instantly dies in large scale groups
3. Pets often bug out / AI unreliable
4. Often clunky / non-rewarding  to play
5. Hammer unleashed seems like a must vs other weapons
6. Some traits are underwhelming and don't apply to pet abilities
7. Visuals are still a bit polarizing to say the least

I hope we can get a response 🤞

Edited March 23, 2022 by Andruil.3479
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[Beddo.1907]

Nah we won't hear a thing until the patch.

Some of those things were not addressed for years.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

I prefer to do my research in peace, but since false information is about to spill over into my new fav spec I must intervene.
So I'm gonna do some fact checks for you OP.

1. Half true. Hammer does nothing for condi, that is true. But Fervent Force grandmaster does a lot for it. Shorter cd on traps and shortbow skills definitely helps. Concussion Shot, Spike trap and Exploding spores all fit into condi build and reduce cooldowns.

2. True. Then again that is ranger issue not untamed issue. Pet should simply take super low/no damage from AoE except for ones from person it's targetting. The one attacked can damage it fully. Rest should be voided.

3. True. But that's a bug not a feature

4. Disagree. Ranger has always had smooth, responsive controls and that has not changed. Hammer may have some big windups but that's because it's a 2h hammer. In return you got 3 new pet skills that are actually super smooth and responsive. If you want to see what clunky is come play engi on anything other than mechanist or flamethrower build.

5. Yes, it's called balanced design. Everything else has either tons of cc, evasion/defense or range build into it. Hammer unleash is pure melee offense and as such gets best damage.

6. I don't like the way you phrased that. Name the concrete underperformers because there's a lot of great traits that could unjustly get the snip. I can name one for sure - 5% value restorative strikes. That one is fair to call out. If there are others - name them.

7. Fair enough. I love the ability to make my pets slimy green but to each his own. De gustibus non est disputandum.

[Trejgon.9367]

I must have missed the memo somewhere, on what basis was untamed supposed to be WvW spec again?

(Soulbeast sounds more like wvw spec to me - between merging removing issue of pet getting nuked in zerg fights, and stance sharing, on the range that only works in groups stacked on tag, again what untamed was supposed to bring to the table to make it more wvw-ish than that?)

[Androuil.1963]

2 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Half true. Hammer does nothing for condi, that is true. But Fervent Force grandmaster does a lot for it. Shorter cd on traps and shortbow skills definitely helps. Concussion Shot, Spike trap and Exploding spores all fit into condi build and reduce cooldowns.

What about the other traits of the same line? Restorative Strikes only works with strike damage, and I'm not sure about Ferocious Symbiosis. Also based on the Hammer's cc and the fact that Fervent Force reduces CDs base on CC one could make the same argument for Hammer no?  
 

 

2 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

True. Then again that is ranger issue not untamed issue. Pet should simply take super low/no damage from AoE except for ones from person it's targetting. The one attacked can damage it fully. Rest should be voided.

Agreed but given how much more control of the pet we get with untamed (especially with Venomous Outburst) which I really appreciate, it feels especially bad on untamed. I like your damage voiding suggestion.
 

2 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Ranger has always had smooth, responsive controls and that has not changed.

I think this is personal preference and correlates to point no 3. Fluidity breaks when the pet actions are not consistent.
 

 

2 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Yes, it's called balanced design. Everything else has either tons of cc, evasion/defense or range build into it. Hammer unleash is pure melee offense and as such gets best damage.

I was mostly referring to the fact that Hammer gets basically two skill sets whereas all other weapons get one unleashed ability. This is not a dealbreaker for me personally, but still feels a bit bad I guess? 
 

 

2 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

I don't like the way you phrased that. Name the concrete underperformers because there's a lot of great traits that could unjustly get the snip. I can name one for sure - 5% value restorative strikes. That one is fair to call out. If there are others - name them.

This was done on purpose, as I was expressing a feeling I got from the majority of posts. Since you asked about my personal opinion, though:

1. Debilitating Blows & Enhancing impact feel pretty meh
2. Nature's Shield & Cleansing unleash are both pretty good and mostly viable
3. Blinding Outburst & Corrupting vines feel utlra meh to me, and I think that correlates to the pet's damage, which is low. Would be interesting if that were to change and your pet's unleash abilities hurt more, though.
4. Fervent force is great and I love it in PVE but I think it should also be affected by pets abilities. in sPVP the CD reduction is halved to 2s
5. Restorative strikes should also work with condition damage
6. Ferocious symbiosis i have not played with extensively. 

Finally, thanks for taking the time to comment. Ultimately, the only fact that matters here, is that the majority of the ranger player base is not happy with the new spec. The points I've added were my personal opinion. At the end of the day, I just want to hear what Anet is hearing/seeing about the spec as I too am fond of it but feel like it's missing something. For the record, I enjoy sPVP,  WvW and Open World content.

What would you change Zef?

 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Andruil.3479

[Androuil.1963]

1 hour ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

I must have missed the memo somewhere, on what basis was untamed supposed to be WvW spec again?

If the timestamp doesn't work, check the video out at 1:22:53 for a full overview. He explicitly mentions WvW around 1:24:00 👍

Edited March 23, 2022 by Andruil.3479

[Swagger.1459]

5 hours ago, Andruil.3479 said:

I've been checking out the forums of the Untamed spec and since the first beta, the VAST majority of people have been unhappy with it... I'm just curious on how Anet is receiving / perceiving this feedback and any possible future plans for the spec....

Summary of some feedback I personally agree with:

 

1. Very low damage not much condi synergy
2. meant to be a WvW spec but relies on pet which instantly dies in large scale groups
3. Pets often bug out / AI unreliable
4. Often clunky / non-rewarding  to play
5. Hammer unleashed seems like a must vs other weapons
6. Some traits are underwhelming and don't apply to pet abilities
7. Visuals are still a bit polarizing to say the least

I hope we can get a response 🤞

There isn’t supposed to be “condi synergy”, it’s a power spec. Not supposed to be a massive heavy hitter either, it’s an aoe weapon that they aren’t going to put an over abundance of damage on. The dps complainers don’t understand that. 

 

The hammer is an awful design for wvw play, no mention of that on your list.

 

Whats up with the suggestions about the pet and pouring more into the pet? They need to fix fundamental pet flaws since 10 years go. And the stronger they make pets, the weaker the Ranger itself become. Y’all have to get over pets bc they are screwing the Ranger. 
 

Nothing clunky on this spec, don’t know what you are talking about.

 

I don’t care about visuals.

 

Lastly, the devs have been given months of feedback. And decent feedback needs to be in individual threads so we can filter out the not good ideas and people out of touch with Untamed, and Ranger in general. 

[Trejgon.9367]

1 hour ago, Andruil.3479 said:

If the timestamp doesn't work, check the video out at 1:22:53 for a full overview. He explicitly mentions WvW around 1:24:00 👍

Ok I find it incredibly weird that they did not mention WvW when advertising espec with features that feels like designed for zergfights, and then mention wvw on espec that I still fail to see what it is supposed to be bringing to make it a good in any part of wvw that ranger was not good at already (i.e. zergfights).

That's AN for you I suppose.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

1 hour ago, Andruil.3479 said:

This was done on purpose, as I was expressing a feeling I got from the majority of posts. Since you asked about my personal opinion, though:

1. Debilitating Blows & Enhancing impact feel pretty meh
2. Nature's Shield & Cleansing unleash are both pretty good and mostly viable
3. Blinding Outburst & Corrupting vines feel utlra meh to me, and I think that correlates to the pet's damage, which is low. Would be interesting if that were to change and your pet's unleash abilities hurt more, though.
4. Fervent force is great and I love it in PVE but I think it should also be affected by pets abilities. in sPVP the CD reduction is halved to 2s
5. Restorative strikes should also work with condition damage
6. Ferocious symbiosis i have not played with extensively. 

Finally, thanks for taking the time to comment. Ultimately, the only fact that matters here, is that the majority of the ranger player base is not happy with the new spec. The points I've added were my personal opinion. At the end of the day, I just want to hear what Anet is hearing/seeing about the spec as I too am fond of it but feel like it's missing something. For the record, I enjoy sPVP,  WvW and Open World content.

What would you change Zef?

 

 1. Hard disagree - they are  awesome! And very well designed too. 
Stab + weakness or quickness + vulni on low icd is nothing to scoff at.
Additionally there's a trick to using them with hammer. The hammer skill you use (unleashed or normal) is determined at cast time.
But the traits variant is determined at time of impact. You can use normal hammer hard cc skill to trigger them, but unleash your ranger before it lands to get the unleashed benefit (quickness + vulni) rather then normal  one (stab + weakness).

2. Cleansing is the one that feel iffy to me. 10s icd without any indicators is just meh if you like swapping unleash often between ranger and pet. I'd much rather this made unleashed ambush cleanse 3 condies, as this is something that has a hud display and I can control better when it's used. Nature's shield is quite ok on my book.

3. These two can do 20~27k damage each  if used proper. Better then what I've seen from pets so far.

4. yeah, original pet skills staying unaffected by it hurts. Honestly i think it should be a grandmaster minor. 2s cd on cc, 4s if it's an interrupt. Brutal nerf, but it would allow the fun aspect of the class (cd resets) to be always there with you, and open up a grandmaster for something new, like condi or support option.

5. With 5% coefficient it might as well not work at all. I'd much rather see something with more interactivity and impact, like 1.4k barrier on applying hard cc, doubled if enemy was interrupted.

6. I have played with it. It's for strike damage only, but it boosts everything you do, kinda like predator's onslaught but triggered by eachother's attacks rather than movement impairment.


 

[frareanselm.1925]

The truth is that untamed and catalyst are so bad that should be reworked from scrath. But Anet would never do that because this would mean acknowledging their failure.

[Redfeather.6401]

One or more people at arenanet were inspired by a goofy looking, goofy named build that won matches back in guild wars 1. That's it. That's the only reason this elite got green-lit.

If ranger was to get a crowd control build with pet/ranger synergies it could have been done so much better if the goofy need to meme a meme just didn't exist.

And I just don't get it really. Why take anything from guild wars 1 as inspiration. Guild wars 2 exists to be a testament that guild wars 1 did EVERYTHING wrong mechanically and that's why gw2 does it all completely differently. Nothing in gw1 carried over unless it was superficial. It's all kind dumb to see these memes create elites.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Redfeather.6401

[kharmin.7683]

42 minutes ago, Redfeather.6401 said:

One or more people at arenanet were inspired by a goofy looking, goofy named build that won matches back in guild wars 1. That's it. That's the only reason this elite got green-lit.

 

To be fair, there were quite a few threads (and posts within) from players in this very forum practically begging for hammer bunny-thumper spec.  Anet obliged but only in the way that Anet does. 

Players should be careful what they wish for.

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

Edited April 3, 2022 by Acyk.9671

[Arheundel.6451]

On 3/23/2022 at 11:05 AM, Andruil.3479 said:

I've been checking out the forums of the Untamed spec and since the first beta, the VAST majority of people have been unhappy with it... I'm just curious on how Anet is receiving / perceiving this feedback and any possible future plans for the spec....

Summary of some feedback I personally agree with:

 

1. Very low damage not much condi synergy
2. meant to be a WvW spec but relies on pet which instantly dies in large scale groups
3. Pets often bug out / AI unreliable
4. Often clunky / non-rewarding  to play
5. Hammer unleashed seems like a must vs other weapons
6. Some traits are underwhelming and don't apply to pet abilities
7. Visuals are still a bit polarizing to say the least

I hope we can get a response 🤞

My thoughts and experiences.

 

1) Completely untrue with direct dmg, for condi builds....use shortbow ambush..

2) It does not depend on pet at all, especially now that you can unleash dead pet and retain dmg reduction stats

3)Only EoD pets

4)Player's issue

5) It is not, it's a zerg/ pve weapon 

6) Not all traits can be best pick...literally nobody ever used the GM 1 on soulbeast or Master 2 on Druid - true not a single trait affecting pet, this is actually bad

7)Who cares about visuals in PvP/WvW? Nobody cares

[Diak Atoli.2085]

I actually like Untamed, and find it very good in PvE.

[BumboJumbo.1308]

Wouldn't surprise me if the spirit rework in summer makes Untamed atleast a little more playable in all game modes. No idea what they're going to do with the spirits nor does anyone else, but we'll have to see.

[Arheundel.6451]

On 3/23/2022 at 5:08 PM, frareanselm.1925 said:

The truth is that untamed and catalyst are so bad that should be reworked from scrath. But Anet would never do that because this would mean acknowledging their failure.

No......catalyst is utter unplayable garbage, a literal downgrade to even core ele...while Untamed is a niche playstyle being hated because is not soulbeast DPS 2.0 golem benchmark meme, but the truth is that the playstyle add many vital gameplay options to ranger

[Kichwas.7152]

On 3/23/2022 at 4:05 AM, Andruil.3479 said:

I've been checking out the forums of the Untamed spec and since the first beta, the VAST majority of people have been unhappy with it...

 

Most of the times, forums are only used by people who are upset about something.

Either you hate everything so make a million posts, or you like all but one little thing so that one little thing is what you post on, or you're on balance - but feel no need to "complain" about what you're happy over.

I'd look not to the forums for feedback on Unleashed, but in game.

Personally - I'm gonna be the outlyer here. I really like the gameplay on it, and once I figured out the timing of switching between unleashed pet and unleashed character I found it actually fairly strong - even on a Power-Hammer build.

All the unhappy people though, are the ones reading this - so they won't like my post. But, that doesn't change that I like the spec.

I will note that I've played alongside other Hammer using Untamed rangers and seen my DPS be almost double theirs - and in the first few days that was flipped with me half the DPS of others. It's all about remembering that you've got 25% more damage when you're Unleashed, and 25% damage reduction when your pet is unleashed - I see a LOT of Untamed rangers running around with the pet unleashed as their baseline... which is a 25% DPS loss for a lot of their gameplay.

I also ignored the 'builds' website Pet suggestions that looked copy-pasted from Soulbeast builds... Looked through my talents and my pets and lined it all up for max Fury uptime when I'm Unleashed.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Kichwas.7152

[DragonMoon.6098]

I know for some folks, visuals come last...but for me...this build could be the most effective build ever and I would still not use it with those visuals. Attack of Goober Green the Flatulent! 

[cafard.8953]

I like hammers, I like ranger, now my ranger can use a big hammer *and* it comes with 10 skills. That's enough to make me happy.

That said, it's super weird that core ranger weapons don't get an untamed skill set. It's like if Soulbeast was released with a special pet and that was the only one which would give you a merge skill. I hope Anet gets onto the case and develops a full set of untamed weapon skills, that would do wonders.

Not a big fan of the green pet goo, and that's from someone who kind of liked the soulbeast green stuff. But eeh, I guess it's visually distinctive at least.

Edited March 25, 2022 by cafard.8953

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

I really don't understand all of the untamed hate. It's one of the most fun specs in the entire game. The increased pet control gives so much fluidity to the spec that ranger has been missing these last 10 years. The only thing that i can think of really is it's skill cap. It is just flat out much harder to play than most ranger specs, but that's what makes it a blast to play. 10/10 spec for me and definitely my fav from EoD. 

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

7 hours ago, DragonMoon.6098 said:

I know for some folks, visuals come last...but for me...this build could be the most effective build ever and I would still not use it with those visuals. Attack of Goober Green the Flatulent! 

I personall don't mind it, especially now that self untamed visuals don't last. I do see where you are coming from though. The green/mud aesthetic isn't appealing to some. 

I think it would have made much more sense if it was more of a red/energy aesthetic. Maybe even somewhat prismatic. 

Edited March 25, 2022 by WhoWantsAHug.3186

[Kichwas.7152]

8 hours ago, DragonMoon.6098 said:

I know for some folks, visuals come last...but for me...this build could be the most effective build ever and I would still not use it with those visuals. Attack of Goober Green the Flatulent! 

 

I don't see anything to have an issue with here.

 

The only visual that sticks is on the pet - and that's just there to remind you that if it's been on long enough to see it, it's been on too long and you're suffering a 25% DPS loss so get it off. You should only be in Pet Unleashed long enough to spam press Shift 1,2,3, then 8 - less than a second or two. Unless you're using Hammer AND trying to break a defiance bar AND lack a utility skill to do it with (or it's on cooldown). Then you stay in just long enough to hit 4 and 5 as well, then GTFO out of Pet unleashed before your DPS falls under the floor.

As for the effect on your ranger when you're unleashed - it lasts even shorter than the amount of time you have to press the 1 key ASAP... so if you ever see it, emergency press 1.

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by Kichwas.7152

[Kichwas.7152]

55 minutes ago, cafard.8953 said:

I like hammers, I like ranger, now my ranger can use a big hammer *and* it comes with 10 skills. That's enough to make me happy.

That said, it's super weird that core ranger weapons don't get an untamed skill set. It's like if Soulbeast was released with a special pet and that was the only one which would give you a merge skill.

 

I'm also a big GW2 Hammer fan. Hammers have the best sounds and animations in the game, so it's always nice to see a new class get to use one. At first I thought it was way undertuned, then I figured out the rotation so now I'm fine with it.

 

As for the other weapons not getting untamed skills, that's a bit weird - but I guess it came down to a matter of dev time. For the Soulbeast a lot of the skills were copy-pastes of each other. For the weapons they would have had to develop and balance new weapon skills for the entire list of weapons the spec can use and that I guess was just more work than they could budget time for.

 

It would be nice if it happens at some point, but I'm guessing doing for the '1' skill was meant as the answer for this... For me, this is the one area I find fault with the spec, but since Hammer is my favorite weapon it's a minor fault. That said they should have at least done one ranged weapon as well.

 

 

[Draeyon.4392]

A brawler ranger espec. Also no one legitimately uses it in WvW where melee balls are a decent portion of organised guild groups.

 

Ignore PvE (save damage coefficients). Fix this one for WvW please.