Why every corner of Tyria has to be an epic battle? (A New Player Perspective)

[Westenev.5289]

22 hours ago, Infinity.2876 said:

It sometimes a lot harder than throw down a few aoes when you aren't playing the meta

But you have a valid point

 

Question tho: what is "meta"? Because if you mean raid/fractal builds that rely on group buffs, warrior banners and a firebrand healer to burst down a large target, you're gonna be in for a baaaaaaaad time.

 

I think a lot of players shoot themselves in the foot playing builds that has no conceivable use or purpose (like trap longbow ranger), never experiment, then wonder why trash mobs take so long to kill. 

[Infinity.2876]

1 hour ago, Westenev.5289 said:

 

Question tho: what is "meta"? Because if you mean raid/fractal builds that rely on group buffs, warrior banners and a firebrand healer to burst down a large target, you're gonna be in for a baaaaaaaad time.

 

I think a lot of players shoot themselves in the foot playing builds that has no conceivable use or purpose (like trap longbow ranger), never experiment, then wonder why trash mobs take so long to kill. 

I just play builds that aren't the top of or even on the meta battle website and work fairly well without being carried but aren't considered the best because they require a little extra from the player. But that's just me

Also when you hate playing necros even when it is way op........

Edited March 27, 2022 by Infinity.2876

[Westenev.5289]

48 minutes ago, Infinity.2876 said:

I just play builds that aren't the top of or even on the meta battle website and work fairly well without being carried but aren't considered the best because they require a little extra from the player. But that's just me

Also when you hate playing necros even when it is way op........

 

I don't see grey areas like meta/nonmeta. Over the years, I've come to find that there are 2 types of players in gw2. People who copy/create builds without understanding the purpose of the build, and people who can understand, explain and adjust aspects of their builds purpose.

 

In short, I think people who think the overworld is too hard are creating artificial difficulty with poor build choices. Especially since gw2 builds are fluid and can be changed on the fly barring ones equipment.

 

But, I do agree Necromancer is gw2 on easymode... which isn't quite as appealing to me as playing dps weaver on dark souls difficulty. xD

Edited March 27, 2022 by Westenev.5289

[Tometheus.4857]

One of the things I've found useful on characters without built-in stealth is the Ash Legion Spy Kit, which gives any character stealth and breaks aggro for a few seconds as long as you don't move, so it can be useful for gathering, opening chests, or communing skill points in a heavy aggro situation when you don't feel like killing the champ or whatever.

 

Also, I second the Skyscale for being able to take a look at the scenery.  

[Einlanzer.1627]

I think this is especially aproblem with the POF zones and they need to go back and retune them at this point. HOT is a little rough also, but in a different way. AB and TD probably could do with a tuneup, but IMO it's not as much a problem there as it is in POF where mobs just have way too short an aggro range for the activity going on in those maps. They just work better as casual exploration maps at this point. 

More generally, it is my opinion that at level 80 there are too many maps with too much going on and the population is too spread out, which is something that happened as a result of 8 years of homogeneous content development. Expansions and the LW should have brought us more of a balance of meta maps, exploration maps, new systems, instanced content, and PVP content. Instead they almost exclusively focused only on the first one. 

Edited March 27, 2022 by Einlanzer.1627

[Doggie.3184]

Yeah this games always had high mob density. Skyscales finally gave us a way to AFK to pee without dying since you'll be attacked eventually pretty much anywhere, even if it looked 100% clear of mobs at the time. Otherwise; Mistlock Sanctuary or Guild Halls too if you dont mind leaving the zone. Play Thief if you want that mithril node without a battle.

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Einlanzer.1627 said:

I think this is especially aproblem with the POF zones and they need to go back and retune them at this point. HOT is a little rough also, but in a different way. AB and TD probably could do with a tuneup, but IMO it's not as much a problem there as it is in POF where mobs just have way too short an aggro range for the activity going on in those maps. They just work better as casual exploration maps at this point. 

More generally, it is my opinion that at level 80 there are too many maps with too much going on and the population is too spread out, which is something that happened as a result of 8 years of homogeneous content development. Expansions and the LW should have brought us more of a balance of meta maps, exploration maps, new systems, instanced content, and PVP content. Instead they almost exclusively focused only on the first one. 

I don't see the population being too spread out.  How can you even tell?  Since we're on megaserver there could be multiple map instances open.  For instance, this morning I woke up early and started working on some of those side-quests for EoD, one of which required completing the Kaineng City meta which was to occur in 10 minutes.  I looked on LFG and saw nothing.  The map appeared pretty dead as nobody was talking and flying around I only spotted a few other players present.

So, I tagged up and listed in LFG with less than 10 minutes to go until start time and had a full squad and map ready to go within minutes.  Obviously, plenty of people were ready to go for this event even though it appeared to be a dead map with nothing going on in LFG.  They were just waiting for somebody to get the ball rolling.

So how can you tell?  In my experience, it's generally pretty easy to get events done.  In the past month it might have been a bit more complicated since more players are focused on the new content, but it should be getting back to normal if it isn't already.  I know HoT looks the same as ever, with players regularly doing both the meta and chain events.

[Khisanth.2948]

On 3/26/2022 at 7:06 AM, Nodora.1365 said:

Sometimes I just want to appreciate the scenery or go from point A to point B. But it's always a struggle because I get easily dismounted and have to fight 5 vets and 15 other mobs. The enemies are all clustered and the respawn rate is insanely fast. Why?

Possibly sabotaging yourself by using a build that doesn't really do what you want but feels like it does.

I ran into a bit of that the other day. I was using my heal tempest to do bounties in Istan and after one of the bounties there was some other event that showed up so I didn't switch build. It felt fine but took ages to complete. Also ends up being a lot more tiring to play.

[Ashgar.3024]

Honestly agree with the OP. I'm a very experienced players who do raids, fractal cms and PvP at a decent rating and i still find myself annoyed at this in some maps.

As people said HoT/PoF maps really went overboard with this. Echovald in Cantha is also kind of annoying for that.

The mobs aren't hard to deal with but the fact you can't take 5 seconds to open your map or sort your inventory while being anywhere and not get swarmed or dare to warp and sit at a waypoint for 2 minutes just to grab a coffee and inevitably come back dead gets old (in Cantha Arborstone fixes that at least).

Open world is supposed to be casual content, let us smell the roses a bit.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Ashgar.3024

[CheeseHamburger.7683]

On 3/26/2022 at 9:03 AM, Vayne.8563 said:

A lot of it has to do with how good you are at the game.  Devs have said that a good player does 5x the amount of damage that an average player does.  That's a significant difference.

As a long time vet, there are a few places where mining a mithril node is a hassle, but most of the time, it's a casual activity because most of the time you can mow things down with AOE fairly quickly . You get mithril and drops.   It's relatively easy.

 

A returning player jumping from the core game to the much harder expansions will see things as too crowded, too hard.  Some players barely even notice the stuff in the open world. If you ever ran around HOT with me, you'd see a vast difference between what you experience and what I experience. This was meant to be end game areas. It was meant to feel dangerous.

 

There are places to gather that are very easy to gather, but not usually in the war torn areas of the expansion.  

 

 

This seems to be a  long winded way of saying "Get good, I'm a master player and have no problems."  I don't mean that as an insult. It's great that you've mastered the game. However that also means that you've missed the point that new people who aren't elite have a lot of difficulty getting around and that not everyone will get to your level of mastery.

 

I'm in the same boat as OP where I've just come back and I do find it frustrating that the mob density is so high. A slight reduction in density paired with not having the player get stunned, slowed, and or knocked prone all the time would go a long way to reducing these frustrations, improving the gameplay for a large number of people.

[Vayne.8563]

56 minutes ago, theerrantventure.9185 said:

 

This seems to be a  long winded way of saying "Get good, I'm a master player and have no problems."  I don't mean that as an insult. It's great that you've mastered the game. However that also means that you've missed the point that new people who aren't elite have a lot of difficulty getting around and that not everyone will get to your level of mastery.

 

I'm in the same boat as OP where I've just come back and I do find it frustrating that the mob density is so high. A slight reduction in density paired with not having the player get stunned, slowed, and or knocked prone all the time would go a long way to reducing these frustrations, improving the gameplay for a large number of people.

I'm not saying that at all.  I'm saying that there is a solution if you want to look into it.  Someone poses a problem.

And it may really be a problem. But it's not fixed yet and it's not likely to be fixed tomorrow. Therefore this person is suffering. I'm suggesting a way to suffer less. I'm trying to help. You see this as an insult. I see this as advice to help people.

I'm not telling people get get a raid build and ascended armor and weapons. I'm telling people that there are builds out there that do nice AOE damage and take place of most mobs in the world fairly quickly.

The problem might exist for another month, or two months or three months or a year. It might not be fixed at all. In the mean time, I'm happily running around the world getting stuff done, and other people are not happy. They can leave the game. They can wait. Or they can adapt. I offered advice to show that it doesn't have to be that way.

I'm not saying run a DPS meter. I'm saying improving your build and gear will make the game easier, particularly in those situations.  You can choose to see that as me saying git gud, but I strongly suspect that's your own prejudice because that's what a lot of people say often. 

It is, however, not what I said.

[Ruisen.9471]

Are there that many elites in PoF maps?  i always remember PoF being a big sign of relief to traverse compared to HoT, since you don't have elites everywhere.

 

I agree that HoT is a huge pain to traverse though, even though it does fit thematically with the story that you're in a warzone where everything in the jungle is trying to kill you.   I can imagine that this is much more painful now that you don't have a bunch of people running around those maps.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Ruisen.9471

[IndigoSundown.5419]

On 3/26/2022 at 4:06 AM, Nodora.1365 said:

Although I doubt it will ever be heard, my suggestion would be to improve the mechanics for crossing the maps with some kind of anti-aggro ability or item,

You believe that ANet is not going to give you what you are asking for.  I also believe this, and also that ANet is not going to change aggro mechanics.  EoD showed me that in a very short time of playing it.

 

So, I will offer some thoughts that have helped me.  Maybe they'll help you.  I hope so.

 

1) as you wander around, pay attention to the mobs you see.  Learn to recognize their types by their looks and/or type names (eg, Veteran Mordrem Sniper).  Over time, you will be able to see what their behavior patterns are and this will make them easier to avoid (or deal with if you have to fight them).

2) As was said above, get your mount masteries.  The raptor's leap/dodge ability is very useful for being missed.  Once you get suggestion 1 down, you'll tend to know what they'll lead with when they aggro and know when to time your leap/dodge.

3) Other mounts have similar skills, so once you get them, learn those, too.  Learn what they will and won't allow you to avoid.

4) Find a build for your character(s) that you enjoy playing which can outlast enemies.  Some professions are harder to play than others, but all have at least one build that will allow you to kill mobs reasonably quickly while also staying alive.  I usually look for some combination of gear, skills and traits that provide me with defense (things like Regeneration, healing y doing x, vigor for more dodges, and condition removal), a stun break skill for getting out of those long knockdowns, and ways to remove immobilize.  You'll figure out what to look for by paying attention to what mobs do and what you have trouble with.  Learn what that build can and can't do and get used to using it.  This will not only allow you to have a better time with over-aggro in the open world, but will likely lead to greater enjoyment of the game.

5) Finally, if you find yourself frequently getting aggro from mobs you cannot fight, look in a build site like https://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki; look for builds in World vs World: Roaming. All of them have getaway options.  Look for one for your preferred profession and see what they do to escape, whether it be lunges (while NOT targeting a mob, use the lunge skill (e.g. Warrior Greatsword 3) away from the enemy you want to escape), or stealth (thieves, engineers, mesmers, even rangers or drgonhunter guardians with Runes of the Trapper), then run.  Again, practice will get you better at doing this.

 

Hope this helps, and good luck.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Inadvertent double post, please remove.

Edited March 28, 2022 by IndigoSundown.5419

[Xalanth.7946]

I would also suggest that having a higher vitality without toughness will help reduce your aggro radius to an extent. This is because the game doesn't consider tanks under the typical MMO standard and each point of toughness translates to an increased aggro table.

 

Something to consider.

 

Good gear stats that give you some survival with decent damage are marauder (power based with vit) or viper (condi+power with vit woven in).

[Kichwas.7152]

On 3/26/2022 at 6:03 AM, Vayne.8563 said:

A lot of it has to do with how good you are at the game.  Devs have said that a good player does 5x the amount of damage that an average player does.  That's a significant difference.

 

This is also relevant to getting and getting out of aggro too.

 

Over time you get better at avoiding aggro when you don't want it, and narrowing it when you do. Never perfect and you can always get a stray pull here and there. But the amount of 'hassle aggro' I get in the game is a lot less than it used to be. And when I take long breaks from the game, it only takes a day or two to get back to being able to move around even the most hostile of maps.

 

You also learn, with time, that some gathering nodes are just 'bait' and best to move past them for the next one. If there's some elite or champion patting around or near it, or something, or it's tucked into some spot you've have to do a bit of tricky jumping to get to - and potentially fall into some aggro below over overjump into a pull or something.

 

With experience in the game, it gets easier. The Open World is mostly too easy for me at this point, across all the expansions and LW chapters. Half of that is playing well when I do aggro something, but the other half is knowing how to not stick my nose in the fire.

- This is a step up from a lot of other MMOs where making the Open World easy for me didn't require learning anything - it was just handed to me.

 

 

 

[Kastagir.2146]

The over tuning of mobs in this game is sickening for a new player. I made a new character last night. I had a few tomes of knowledge so used them and got to level 20. So i geared him up in green level 20 gear and started the main story. All was easy 2 hit kills until i had to get in the bandit hideout. These mobs are level 9 and they were 2 or 3 hit killing me. I couldn't heal myself fast enough because of the cooldown timer. In no other mmo with level scaling would this happen. It's just plain stupid how the devs ignore this stuff. I have been playing mmo's since 2001. I have never been more angry at a game like this.

[SinisterSlay.6973]

1 hour ago, wmtyrance.3571 said:

The over tuning of mobs in this game is sickening for a new player. I made a new character last night. I had a few tomes of knowledge so used them and got to level 20. So i geared him up in green level 20 gear and started the main story. All was easy 2 hit kills until i had to get in the bandit hideout. These mobs are level 9 and they were 2 or 3 hit killing me. I couldn't heal myself fast enough because of the cooldown timer. In no other mmo with level scaling would this happen. It's just plain stupid how the devs ignore this stuff. I have been playing mmo's since 2001. I have never been more angry at a game like this.

Sounds like you forgot to dodge or your build is wrong. I did the entire story solo on a staff elemental just for fun. It was easy until Arah. And even then...

[Jajo.1428]

I agree with op. It really didn't matter to me, that I took down mobs with ease. Exploring HoT maps had become a chore just by knowing, that I would have to fight every.  kittens. meter. of it. Exploring was therefore much more stressful - a completely different feeling than exploring core maps (apart from Orr, but Orr is ugly, while Auric Basin is beautiful), and I still begrudge that.

When I want challenge I have plenty of options to play  something, that does not include vistas, points of interest and places of power.

[Shuzuru.3651]

1 hour ago, wmtyrance.3571 said:

The over tuning of mobs in this game is sickening for a new player. I made a new character last night. I had a few tomes of knowledge so used them and got to level 20. So i geared him up in green level 20 gear and started the main story. All was easy 2 hit kills until i had to get in the bandit hideout. These mobs are level 9 and they were 2 or 3 hit killing me. I couldn't heal myself fast enough because of the cooldown timer. In no other mmo with level scaling would this happen. It's just plain stupid how the devs ignore this stuff. I have been playing mmo's since 2001. I have never been more angry at a game like this.

Knowing the difficulty of the base game story, I can assure you that if you struggle at lvl20 fully geared vs some lvl9, it's more a you problem than a game problem, most people are doing fine if not easily at the recommended lvl and being undergeared with mismatch stats. 

[RazielTheUnborn.2189]

Can I ask, what is with the rose-tinted glasses regarding Guild Wars 1? Just like in Guild Wars 2 you had to find spots tucked away to not get smacked by patrolling enemies with the difference being between the two games, Guld Wars 1 didn't respawn enemies without re-loading the map. Mob density in the first can get just as bad as the second with aggro ranges being just as wide and having much much longer distances before they stop chasing. Lornar's Pass anyone to get people from one end of Prophecy to the other come to mind for anyone during Temple runs for gold?

 

There is plenty of areas within these vast maps to just park, without needing a skyscale, and enjoy the scenario. I stand around in them during my work shift all day. I used to have a friend who'd show me nooks and crannies with no spawns in site that were beautiful oasis away from the murder (hidden cave on Sparkfly Fen that leads to a water pool with large flowers). 

[CheeseHamburger.7683]

21 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I'm not saying that at all.  I'm saying that there is a solution if you want to look into it.  Someone poses a problem.

And it may really be a problem. But it's not fixed yet and it's not likely to be fixed tomorrow. Therefore this person is suffering. I'm suggesting a way to suffer less. I'm trying to help. You see this as an insult. I see this as advice to help people.

I'm not telling people get get a raid build and ascended armor and weapons. I'm telling people that there are builds out there that do nice AOE damage and take place of most mobs in the world fairly quickly.

The problem might exist for another month, or two months or three months or a year. It might not be fixed at all. In the mean time, I'm happily running around the world getting stuff done, and other people are not happy. They can leave the game. They can wait. Or they can adapt. I offered advice to show that it doesn't have to be that way.

I'm not saying run a DPS meter. I'm saying improving your build and gear will make the game easier, particularly in those situations.  You can choose to see that as me saying git gud, but I strongly suspect that's your own prejudice because that's what a lot of people say often. 

It is, however, not what I said.

 

"A lot of it has to do with how good you are at the game.  Devs have said that a good player does 5x the amount of damage that an average player does.  That's a significant difference." -Vayne.8563

 

I understand you're trying to be helpful, but most folks will read this quote as "git gud." You're literally saying this isn't a problem if you're good enough, and then listing all the ways they can get better so it's not a problem.

 

Of course people with good builds, good gear, etc, will have an easier time. New players and older returning players won't have this and while they can earn it, there is still a problem while they're doing that. Does it hurt your play style if there's a few less mobs along path areas where players are traveling place to place? Does it hurt your play style if the mobs around paths stun/knockdown players less often?  You can still can still happily run around the world getting stuff done even if others have an easier time.

 

[Linken.6345]

21 minutes ago, theerrantventure.9185 said:

 

"A lot of it has to do with how good you are at the game.  Devs have said that a good player does 5x the amount of damage that an average player does.  That's a significant difference." -Vayne.8563

 

I understand you're trying to be helpful, but most folks will read this quote as "git gud." You're literally saying this isn't a problem if you're good enough, and then listing all the ways they can get better so it's not a problem.

 

Of course people with good builds, good gear, etc, will have an easier time. New players and older returning players won't have this and while they can earn it, there is still a problem while they're doing that. Does it hurt your play style if there's a few less mobs along path areas where players are traveling place to place? Does it hurt your play style if the mobs around paths stun/knockdown players less often?  You can still can still happily run around the world getting stuff done even if others have an easier time.

 

Yes it does hurt since there is less monsters to kill when traveling around.

[Vayne.8563]

1 hour ago, theerrantventure.9185 said:

 

"A lot of it has to do with how good you are at the game.  Devs have said that a good player does 5x the amount of damage that an average player does.  That's a significant difference." -Vayne.8563

 

I understand you're trying to be helpful, but most folks will read this quote as "git gud." You're literally saying this isn't a problem if you're good enough, and then listing all the ways they can get better so it's not a problem.

 

Of course people with good builds, good gear, etc, will have an easier time. New players and older returning players won't have this and while they can earn it, there is still a problem while they're doing that. Does it hurt your play style if there's a few less mobs along path areas where players are traveling place to place? Does it hurt your play style if the mobs around paths stun/knockdown players less often?  You can still can still happily run around the world getting stuff done even if others have an easier time.

 

I was trying to illustrate the difference between good players and average players, but you really don't need to be a "good" player in that sense to make a huge difference.

I'm not a good player by that standard. I don't ever get top DPS.  By the same token I'm probably better than an average player, and I don't have much trouble farming or being overwhelmed, even in expansion zones.  There are a couple of areas where this isn't true.

 

Yep, I could have phrased it differently and it would be been better, but no, you don't have to be a good player to make a significant difference.  Not being a good player, it's still not a huge issue for me the vast majority of the time.

[CheeseHamburger.7683]

21 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I was trying to illustrate the difference between good players and average players, but you really don't need to be a "good" player in that sense to make a huge difference.

I'm not a good player by that standard. I don't ever get top DPS.  By the same token I'm probably better than an average player, and I don't have much trouble farming or being overwhelmed, even in expansion zones.  There are a couple of areas where this isn't true.

 

Yep, I could have phrased it differently and it would be been better, but no, you don't have to be a good player to make a significant difference.  Not being a good player, it's still not a huge issue for me the vast majority of the time.

And I get where you're coming from, truly. I've given it more thought and can see how removing and/or weakening mobs might have unforeseen impacts for people who are farming materials,  and how folks who had to do it the old fashioned way would feel like their work was made less by such changes.

I guess my ask would be that along paths and in some story areas that the aggro range was more forgiving and that monsters stunned a bit less.

Edited March 29, 2022 by theerrantventure.9185