The "Money Where Your Mouth Is" Challenge

[Shikigami.4013]

@Raeysa Penrose.8450 said:oh and if the mount skins are priced at more the 800-1600 range but rng is removed, i'll buy every single one i actually like (which is like, half at least lmao). i don't have the money to get all 30 at that price point all in one go, even to prove a point

Math really is not your strong point. If you like half the skins and would buy the ones you like if they were 800-1600 gems you would pay 12000-24000 gems for 15 skins.

Currently you can buy all 30 skins (which of course are including all of those that you like) in a pack for 9600 gems. And if you don't have that much right now you can still get all 30 skins for 12000 gems by buying them one by one over time. So your proposed change would be worse for you in all possible ways even if you only like half the skins and not more, and the price for all of them would match your minimum suggestion of 800 and not up to 1600.

[Butch.4957]

@Arewn.2368 said:Would have bought 3 of the new mount skins if they were sold in a sensible way. Instead, ANet decided to employ predatory business practices.

So I guess no one's happy in this situation, because I'm not getting my mount skins, and Arena Net isn't getting a penny from my wallet. I genuinely hope they burn for this. They need to. This should be a scathing lesson in how not to treat your customers. A lesson that will hopefully lead to their betterment in the future.

Oh my god, your post made me think of a father watching their kid stick a fork (quarter, etc...) in a power socket but not stopping them so the kind can learn their lesson by getting hurt. Just the imagery made me smile.

[Dahkeus.8243]

I pledge that if the RNG aspect is removed, I’ll throw down extra cash for gems. I pledge at least 2k gems worth of spending.

[elsendor.3251]

@Shikigami.4013 said:

@Raeysa Penrose.8450 said:oh and if the mount skins are priced at more the 800-1600 range but rng is removed, i'll buy every single one i actually like (which is like, half at least lmao). i don't have the money to get all 30 at that price point all in one go, even to prove a point

Math really is not your strong point. If you like half the skins and would buy the ones you like if they were 800-1600 gems you would pay 12000-24000 gems for 15 skins.

Currently you can buy all 30 skins (which of course are including all of those that you like) in a pack for 9600 gems. And if you don't have that much right now you can still get all 30 skins for 12000 gems by buying them one by one over time. So your proposed change would be worse for you in all possible ways even if you only like half the skins and not more, and the price for all of them would match your minimum suggestion of 800 and not up to 1600.

<.< yeah it's absolutely not my strong point.

[BrokenGlass.9356]

I agree with OP. Many of the mount skins blow me away. Many of them will be the perfect addition to characters I've carefully crafted the look of over the past 5 years. I'm not going to buy mount skins when I may only get a decent skin for a little used mount on a little used Alt.

I will pay for all 4 mounts that match the skins on each of my mains.

Come on #arenanet do you want my money or don't you?

If your game was a brick and mortar store.... You'd have to be in a state where gambling is legal. I wonder if gambling is legal in the state that houses ArenaNet HQ?

[Witch of Doom.5739]

@Liberia.7830 said:I did it already, my Girlfriend just wanted ONE skin, I gambled all the way for just this one skin. at 28 tries, HOORAY! A-Net you have made me upset again...https://i.imgur.com/XOztXlm.jpg

Congratulations, this is why companies do it and how they rationalize it. smh

[WARIORSCHARGEING.2637]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@WARIORSCHARGEING.2637 said:I put my money where my mouth is very long time ago . that is why i did not buy pof nor would or will i ever buy mount skins unless i made enough in game gold to do it. i spent my money with anet got the game . after that they not come up with any thing yet to even make me think about spending any more real world money at all. if they did it the right way with pof i would have spent the money IF i seen the worth in it but i did not so no more money for anet and the last time i spent money on anet was when hot first came out .

If you're already committed to not spending money even on expansions then you're not going to factor into any decision any makes going forward, and your lack of purchases serves no purpose except to save you money. As someone who doesn't support the game, I don't believe the company should weigh heavily what you say over say people who are supporting the game, at least with expansion purchases.

Trying to win you back would take more effort than appeasing those who are still enjoying the game.

it is the finer points in the details of or will i or will i not spend money on this game. not trying to make it a long dragged out debate but rather right to the heart of it. the meat and potatoes if you will .

if anet wanted to win me back over and make me wanted to buy pof. and spend hard earned real world money . then it becomes very clear as light its self that is this

when they made path of fire pack had they done these few small ok not small but yet if could have been small if they had been working on this at the same time they made that pack . and did these things

1 fix every single game breaking bug in the whole game since its been out in 2012

2. update system hardware taken the game out of the stone ages. and given it far more better look . which is possible to be done

3. SLI crossfire multi gpu cpu support

4.4K even if you do not have 4K you can still get a better game out of it. even if your only able to reach 1080P .. making the game a new all over yet again even for the vet players

now see Vayne if they done all that and it is not like i am holding out here or asking anet to

give every one 20,000 gems and all the legendry's in the game or any thing like that. nope and i would want it so every person in this game vet and other wise got just as much enjoyment from these small improvements and not just one or a select few people say like in the case of the gem store with the mount skins and RNG .

i am taken your never heard of something called gold to gems . that can be done in the trading post. i could be like a lot of other people break out that shiny credit card and get what i want right now from the trading post. but in this and these cases some times you need to do what is #BestforBusines

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

@Liberia.7830 said:I did it already, my Girlfriend just wanted ONE skin, I gambled all the way for just this one skin. at 28 tries, HOORAY! A-Net you have made me upset again...https://i.imgur.com/XOztXlm.jpg

And you have made them very very happy due to you buying into it by paying into it just once.Don't even get why you're upset.That's like me deciding my profession will be daredevil (I mean real life... not the damn game), and then during one of my stunts I break my leg in 10 areas and need to wait until it's healed and then going "WHY THE MEOW IS MY LEG BROKEN!? WHY IS MY MEDICAL BILL SO HIGH? Ugh... I'm upset".

You've made your bed.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@Vayne.8563 said:I don't cut of my nose to spite my face. I won't buy the RNG mount skins, because I don't like how they're offered. I'm not going to vow never to buy another mount skin because I consider that 100% pointless. It's certainly not going to show Anet anything they can use to make decisions. If I buy mount skins that I like that are a straight out purchase, that's more logical to me than not buying mount skins going forward. It's a protest that has no teeth because Anet can't know why I'm not buying them.

For example, I'm not buying the jackel skin because I don't use the jackel that much. I'd have a much better chance of buying if it were a raptor skin which I use all the time.

I was under the impression the OP would still buy items provided there was no RNG involved. Like you I also spend money in the Gem Store because this game is special to both of us, I bought the Spooky Mounts because I saw their value and I knew what I was getting. I fully intend on buying some of these new Mounts Skins as soon as ANet comes to their senses. Until then I don't really see anything worth my money currently that I don't already have.

[Vayne.8563]

@WARIORSCHARGEING.2637 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@WARIORSCHARGEING.2637 said:I put my money where my mouth is very long time ago . that is why i did not buy pof nor would or will i ever buy mount skins unless i made enough in game gold to do it. i spent my money with anet got the game . after that they not come up with any thing yet to even make me think about spending any more real world money at all. if they did it the right way with pof i would have spent the money IF i seen the worth in it but i did not so no more money for anet and the last time i spent money on anet was when hot first came out .

If you're already committed to not spending money even on expansions then you're not going to factor into any decision any makes going forward, and your lack of purchases serves no purpose except to save you money. As someone who doesn't support the game, I don't believe the company should weigh heavily what you say over say people who are supporting the game, at least with expansion purchases.

Trying to win you back would take more effort than appeasing those who are still enjoying the game.

it is the finer points in the details of or will i or will i not spend money on this game. not trying to make it a long dragged out debate but rather right to the heart of it. the meat and potatoes if you will .

if anet wanted to win me back over and make me wanted to buy pof. and spend hard earned real world money . then it becomes very clear as light its self that is this

when they made path of fire pack had they done these few small ok not small but yet if could have been small if they had been working on this at the same time they made that pack . and did these things

1 fix every single game breaking bug in the whole game since its been out in 2012

2. update system hardware taken the game out of the stone ages. and given it far more better look . which is possible to be done

3. SLI crossfire multi gpu cpu support

4.4K even if you do not have 4K you can still get a better game out of it. even if your only able to reach 1080P .. making the game a new all over yet again even for the vet players

now see Vayne if they done all that and it is not like i am holding out here or asking anet to

give every one 20,000 gems and all the legendry's in the game or any thing like that. nope and i would want it so every person in this game vet and other wise got just as much enjoyment from these small improvements and not just one or a select few people say like in the case of the gem store with the mount skins and RNG .

i am taken your never heard of something called gold to gems . that can be done in the trading post. i could be like a lot of other people break out that shiny credit card and get what i want right now from the trading post. but in this and these cases some times you need to do what is #BestforBusines

Considering that many people play this game without what you call game-breaking bugs. Many people play this game without the hardware upgrades you request, you simply won't spend money on the game and that's fine. Because the percentage of people Anet loses from not complying is far less than the money it would cost to do what you're requesting The fact is you've priced yourself out of the game by asking for something that's simply not going to happen I wouldn't do it if I were Anet.

The less reasonable your "demands" the more of an outlier you are, and the less that opinion will matter in the long run. I knew one guy who stopped playing because of the account wallet. He couldn't put different gold on different characters and it bothered him so much he stopped playing. And it changes nothing because that demographic is so small, it's simply not worth catering to from a business perspective.

Pretty sure you're in the same boat.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

@Liberia.7830 said:I did it already, my Girlfriend just wanted ONE skin, I gambled all the way for just this one skin. at 28 tries, HOORAY! A-Net you have made me upset again...https://i.imgur.com/XOztXlm.jpg

Don't girlfriends always drain your money faster than you could expect?!! ;)

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

I'm wondering if the TC is willing to see if the Gem Store update tomorrow will fix this or not (I highly doubt they would, but there is still a chance. Even if it's 1% or not).

[Fallesafe.5932]

Doesn't really matter. Everybody already bought the new skins. Just look around. And 90% of you won't stick to your guns anyhow.;)

[DeceiverX.8361]

I said it at HoT's launch; I've never make another purchase from them until they fix their first expansion. They still haven't. I don't own PoF and don't care to or buy any expansion they ever make until the issues brought in HoT are fixed or do something to win me over like the core game did.

Pretty much, they need to show they're willing to actually improve the game instead of continuously dangling new shinies and making this into another generic crap-moneygrab MMO.

[Marque.6897]

Honestly its not so hard to remedy the issue for people who already spent gems on the skins if they were to remove RNG. Just let the people choose the skins they want from the pool. If they bought 5, let them choose 5, periid. Or let them choose the 'refund gems' option and be done with it. Simple.

Also - I won't be buying anything from the gem store anymore until this is removed/changed or they stop doing this in the future with new skins. Maybe talking with our wallet will make them listen, maybe not. But either way I won't be spending money on a platform that disrespects it.

[Nikal.4921]

I don't understand why some people are willing to pay so much more for mount skins than for glider skins. Is changing dye channels and adding some effects really that much more resource-consuming than designing new gliders? I feel mount skin prices should be in line with glider prices. I thought 1600 gems was okay for the Spooky skins, but I seriously doubt I'd have paid the "full" price of 2000 gems, much less pay 2000 gems for a single mount skin. I think in addition to asking to remove the RNG aspect of purchasing skins, we should be asking for reasonable prices as well.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:I said it at HoT's launch; I've never make another purchase from them until they fix their first expansion. They still haven't. I don't own PoF and don't care to or buy any expansion they ever make until the issues brought in HoT are fixed or do something to win me over like the core game did.

Pretty much, they need to show they're willing to actually improve the game instead of continuously dangling new shinies and making this into another generic crap-moneygrab MMO.

I'm just wondering as I just don't like HoT in general other than the glider.What was/is the issue? (Seeing it was never fixed)

[Miroe.2054]

How is this anything different than with the gliders? Anyway. I'm gonna buy one or two of the boxes and then wait for the mounts that I can earn ingame like the legendary backpack gliders.

[Trise.2865]

"I paid you some money and I promise I'll pay you more money if you bow to me."Yeah, you can go kitten yourself. I'm sure you're valued as a customer, but you're not that important. No one person is.

I don't like the system as-is, but there are some good ideas here. This system has a hard cap, unlike "real" gambling, but requires much more investment for those who want only a few skins (and aren't "lucky"). The pricing is ridiculous (like most things in the gem store), and worse, these don't scale to similar gemstore items. But, offering an unlock pack at a discount is nice. Smaller, select unlock packs at a similar or comparable discount would be preferable (though still won't please everyone), similar to the earlier Mini Bundles. Perhaps an adaptation or a significant price drop will attract more spending.

[WARIORSCHARGEING.2637]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@WARIORSCHARGEING.2637 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@WARIORSCHARGEING.2637 said:I put my money where my mouth is very long time ago . that is why i did not buy pof nor would or will i ever buy mount skins unless i made enough in game gold to do it. i spent my money with anet got the game . after that they not come up with any thing yet to even make me think about spending any more real world money at all. if they did it the right way with pof i would have spent the money IF i seen the worth in it but i did not so no more money for anet and the last time i spent money on anet was when hot first came out .

If you're already committed to not spending money even on expansions then you're not going to factor into any decision any makes going forward, and your lack of purchases serves no purpose except to save you money. As someone who doesn't support the game, I don't believe the company should weigh heavily what you say over say people who are supporting the game, at least with expansion purchases.

Trying to win you back would take more effort than appeasing those who are still enjoying the game.

it is the finer points in the details of or will i or will i not spend money on this game. not trying to make it a long dragged out debate but rather right to the heart of it. the meat and potatoes if you will .

if anet wanted to win me back over and make me wanted to buy pof. and spend hard earned real world money . then it becomes very clear as light its self that is this

when they made path of fire pack had they done these few small ok not small but yet if could have been small if they had been working on this at the same time they made that pack . and did these things

1 fix every single game breaking bug in the whole game since its been out in 2012

2. update system hardware taken the game out of the stone ages. and given it far more better look . which is possible to be done

3. SLI crossfire multi gpu cpu support

4.4K even if you do not have 4K you can still get a better game out of it. even if your only able to reach 1080P .. making the game a new all over yet again even for the vet players

now see Vayne if they done all that and it is not like i am holding out here or asking anet to

give every one 20,000 gems and all the legendry's in the game or any thing like that. nope and i would want it so every person in this game vet and other wise got just as much enjoyment from these small improvements and not just one or a select few people say like in the case of the gem store with the mount skins and RNG .

i am taken your never heard of something called gold to gems . that can be done in the trading post. i could be like a lot of other people break out that shiny credit card and get what i want right now from the trading post. but in this and these cases some times you need to do what is #BestforBusines

Considering that many people play this game without what you call game-breaking bugs. Many people play this game without the hardware upgrades you request, you simply won't spend money on the game and that's fine. Because the percentage of people Anet loses from not complying is far less than the money it would cost to do what you're requesting The fact is you've priced yourself out of the game by asking for something that's simply not going to happen I wouldn't do it if I were Anet.

The less reasonable your "demands" the more of an outlier you are, and the less that opinion will matter in the long run. I knew one guy who stopped playing because of the account wallet. He couldn't put different gold on different characters and it bothered him so much he stopped playing. And it changes nothing because that demographic is so small, it's simply not worth catering to from a business perspective.

Pretty sure you're in the same boat.

IF their is any at all VALIDITY to this topic right here https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/15068/ncsoft-q3-2017-earnings#latest then you very wrong on what you just said

i for one tend to do put more faith and validity into that topic right their than what you been trying to claim all this time.

and if that is all the case based on that very topic being very right and true . then well the next 2 quarters will very much not back that up but will also prove it fully.

[Ashen.2907]

@Trise.2865 said:"I paid you some money and I promise I'll pay you more money if you bow to me."Yeah, you can go kitten yourself. I'm sure you're valued as a customer, but you're not that important. No one person is.

I don't like the system as-is, but there are some good ideas here. This system has a hard cap, unlike "real" gambling, but requires much more investment for those who want only a few skins (and aren't "lucky"). The pricing is ridiculous (like most things in the gem store), and worse, these don't scale to similar gemstore items. But, offering an unlock pack at a discount is nice. Smaller, select unlock packs at a similar or comparable discount would be preferable (though still won't please everyone), similar to the earlier Mini Bundles. Perhaps an adaptation or a significant price drop will attract more spending.

A paying, but less than satisfied, customer providing feedback on what would encourage them to spend more money on the service is something that companies want. Getting this sort of feedback is something that companies spend, in many cases, large sums of money on.

Sure a particular individual request may not be feasible to a given company but, in aggregate, all such are desirable.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:I said it at HoT's launch; I've never make another purchase from them until they fix their first expansion. They still haven't. I don't own PoF and don't care to or buy any expansion they ever make until the issues brought in HoT are fixed or do something to win me over like the core game did.

Pretty much, they need to show they're willing to actually improve the game instead of continuously dangling new shinies and making this into another generic crap-moneygrab MMO.

I'm just wondering as I just don't like HoT in general other than the glider.What was/is the issue? (Seeing it was never fixed)

Profession balance and design.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Huge balance problems in PvP and massive bugs and people are complaining about pixels that don't effect gameplay in any way.

[Vayne.8563]

@Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:I said it at HoT's launch; I've never make another purchase from them until they fix their first expansion. They still haven't. I don't own PoF and don't care to or buy any expansion they ever make until the issues brought in HoT are fixed or do something to win me over like the core game did.

Pretty much, they need to show they're willing to actually improve the game instead of continuously dangling new shinies and making this into another generic crap-moneygrab MMO.

I'm just wondering as I just don't like HoT in general other than the glider.What was/is the issue? (Seeing it was never fixed)

It was never fixed, because it was never really broken. Oh there are some things in HoT that can use improvement but it didn't live up to the arbitrary standards of some players. Some people found HoT too difficult, but people that liked difficulty liked it more. Some people found the maps confusing to navigate, but that sort of puzzle makes the HoT maps my favorite maps in the game. Some people complain about the balance, but I see HoT stats used all over the place. Raids were generally well received. The metas are still being done by players regularly.

When people make comments like DeceiverX did, they imply this is something the community as a whole agrees on. But in every thread complaining about HoT, a good percentage of the posts come out supporting it.

From my point of view a lot of HoT complaints were unwarranted in the first place and then people used their anger to fuel future tirades. Anet did revisit HoT and made changes to it to address at least some of the complaints and after that some people continued to have a problem and some people didn't. But there's always been a group of players who really liked HoT as well.

[DeceiverX.8361]

I'll continue with the major guild overhaul which gutted a lot of the WvW scene.

It's not that I had high expectations; it's just that they made the game for those involved in the PvP and WvW scenes objectively worse.

I could go into a very long-winded explanation, or you can google around and look for the feedback and detailed explanations as to why the changes were negative from the authority of the pro players, zerg leaders, havoc guild leaders, and so on.

The arguments have already been made hundreds if not thousands of times now.