Bubble nerf was a step in the right direction

[Grand Marshal.4098]

🍿 legendary beef if it starts

[Mixes.7164]

4 minutes ago, Iceman.4509 said:

Your simplistic and condescending explanation is laughable at best. You clearly do not understand the combat, the game mechanics and skills in general. It’s like saying: to become President, all you need to do is campaign and win it’s so simple!

Getting good is always the answer. It is hard though so I don't blame you for not trying

[Fueki.4753]

If effectively destroying WoD and thus removing any relevance Warrior had left is a "step in the right direction", what is the end goal of this "direction"? Straight up removing Warrior from the game?

This change wasn't for the sake of WvW, it was for the sake of making Warrior even more unviable.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Iceman.4509]

5 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

If effectively destroying WoD and thus removing any relevance Warrior had left is a "step in the right direction", what is the end goal of this "direction"? Straight up removing Warrior from the game?

This change wasn't for the sake of WvW, it was for the sake of making Warrior even more unviable.

Balance is a class having 1 skill that completely dominates Zerg fights?

[Iceman.4509]

18 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

If effectively destroying WoD and thus removing any relevance Warrior had left is a "step in the right direction", what is the end goal of this "direction"? Straight up removing Warrior from the game?

This change wasn't for the sake of WvW, it was for the sake of making Warrior even more unviable.

Says the guy with the warrior icon. Face it your skill was broken and unusable

[MedievalThings.5417]

2 hours ago, Iceman.4509 said:

For a game to be balanced there should always be a counter to any play. What was the counter to bubble? Anyone….anyone? There wasn’t any. So many bad guilds could stealth, bubble, drop gravity wells/stuns/immobilizations and there was 0 counter for anyone in that bubble. Large 40-50 man blobs would run 5-6 bubbles and completely overwhelm any 15-20 man guilds just with boon strip and denial. Zerg busting was near impossible. It created a pirate ship meta because large guilds would dance because of fear of bubble. Now, Zerg busting has become viable, guilds can’t use bubbles a crutch and skill has become much more important. With firebrands heal aegis being nerfed, firebrands battle presence being nerfed and scrappers taking some nerfs the “boon ball meta” is being contained. I don’t understand what people want? Just one shorting each other with rangers? I would venture to say 99% of people complaining are roamers or people who relied way to heavily on a skill. Is it really balanced that a class is a MUST run because of 1 skill being so overpowered? 

So, what you're saying is you're ok with nerfs to auras, because there is no counterplay to those either.  Maybe, auras only have a 1/3rd chance of applying would be a good start?

 

Have you even played GW2 lately, since blobs don't run 5-6 bubbles anymore, haven't for more than a year.  At most, you see 1 occasionally.  The only time you see more bubbles than that, is defenders who all log to alts to try and make a dent in the boon-sharing blobs, because stacking, downstate, and boon-sharing are all broken and favor larger groups.

 

There was nothing wrong with the skill.  The "counterplay" was to just get out of it, kind of like the "counterplay" to auras is to not fight back.  One just requires you to move, the other requires you to stop fighting.  Which one is/was broken again?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Iceman.4509 said:

Trolling? Speaking the truth. I’m sure you have heard of me. My in game name is Doc Tormenter and I was the premier commander on EU. I revolutionized the 100 man meta and all the builds on meta battle were my brain child’s 

And yet you're new here...

GM ain't a ranger main and laid down a through truth bomb on you mate.

[Fueki.4753]

23 minutes ago, Iceman.4509 said:

Balance is a class having 1 skill that completely dominates Zerg fights?

It hardly dominated WvW. It's a stationary thing that could simply be walked out of.

Boons are over-performing and WoD mitigated that a little bit. Now boons are even more excessively rampant.

10 minutes ago, Iceman.4509 said:

Says the guy with the warrior icon. Face it your skill was broken and unusable

People using something as a forum icon because they like the design, doesn't indicate anything about what they play ingame.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hello Everyone,

Just a reminder to keep it civil and avoid attacking each other.

Regards.

[Toast.6459]

The fact that you talk about "zerg busting" and think that making bubble worse was a good thing speaks volumes, and that's all I'm gonna say.

[Iceman.4509]

2 hours ago, Toast.6459 said:

The fact that you talk about "zerg busting" and think that making bubble worse was a good thing speaks volumes, and that's all I'm gonna say.

Elaborate 

[Iceman.4509]

4 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

And yet you're new here...

GM ain't a ranger main and laid down a through truth bomb on you mate.

I usually don’t post on the official forums, I use European Reddit mostly. However, I couldn’t stand by idle anymore and see misinformed opinions express their displeasure on the developers decision to balance an imbalanced skill. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

46 minutes ago, Iceman.4509 said:

I usually don’t post on the official forums, I use European Reddit mostly. However, I couldn’t stand by idle anymore and see misinformed opinions express their displeasure on the developers decision to balance an imbalanced skill. 

Yeah... you got the full rundown of why it wasn't imbalanced in the first place and decided to disregard it all, so... good luck.

[ArchonWing.9480]

???
Don't stand in it. Condi clears still work underneath it so you can get out if soft cc'd.

The only possibly good side of this, is if they manage to make warrior more than a bubble/cleanse bot. But to be fair, that's also necessary since Warrior has been not in a good spot since 2020.

Edited March 31, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[Ashantara.8731]

At first glance I misread "Bauble Nerf"... 😆

[SWI.4127]

12 hours ago, Iceman.4509 said:

For a game to be balanced there should always be a counter to any play. What was the counter to bubble? Anyone….anyone? There wasn’t any. So many bad guilds could stealth, bubble, drop gravity wells/stuns/immobilizations and there was 0 counter for anyone in that bubble. Large 40-50 man blobs would run 5-6 bubbles and completely overwhelm any 15-20 man guilds just with boon strip and denial.

 

Counters:   Interrupt the warrior, kite away from the warrior, dodge out of the bubble, stunbreak people caught in the bubble.  Channeling bubble reveals you, so if you get caught in a bubble "from stealth", you are really just not paying attention.   I'm curious how the bubble nerf somehow helps zergbust now?  The larger group can still just chain bubble the smaller group.  If anything it's worse for the smaller groups, because bubble used to be one of the only skills that could punish a blob from pushing you too greedily. 

[Xenesis.6389]

Meh it's whatever, tag for bags now, you boon ball guilds want boon balls, then enjoy your boon balls and bring your own strips, if you lose fights and blame people for not running strips then F off, recruit more and carry your own.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[Shroud.2307]

Lad thinks he's trolling, little does he know people unironically say things like this here all the time.

Get in the car with the other clowns.

[Kozumi.5816]

16 hours ago, KeoLegend.5132 said:

roamers are busy 1v1ing eachother because they have no chance against a zerg.

They're actually not 1v1ing since they're 2 perma stealth thieves or celestial sustain gods so no one ever dies.

[anbujackson.9564]

20 hours ago, Iceman.4509 said:

Trolling? Speaking the truth. I’m sure you have heard of me. My in game name is Doc Tormenter and I was the premier commander on EU. I revolutionized the 100 man meta and all the builds on meta battle were my brain child’s 

You know, having an opinion is one thing and fine.

But you know whats not fine? Being an arrogant gamer and telling how awesome you are while saying that everyone is a nobody compared to you.

How about you achieve something in real life first...

[Cyninja.2954]

21 hours ago, Iceman.4509 said:

What was the counter to bubble? Anyone….anyone?

 

Movement, the most basic action just about any player can take. Pressing W.

 

Bubble was not used for boon removal what ever some might think, it was used for boon replication denial primarily. There are better and stronger options for boon removal and projectile denial. Every time I read someone praise the boon removal capabilities of WoD I know exactly where to place their WvW experience.

 

As is, warrior has pretty much no spot in the WvW blob meta left. Better bring a class which can strip/convert those boons better and which might have other benefits too, like range.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Mabi black.1824]

hi iceman,

I believe your mistake is in the perspective from which you look at the game. I try to explain.

the same WoD skill is the countergame, to the only mode you normally see, players grouped in ball modes that heal and clean at the speed of light.

the purpose of the skill is to try in some way to make the grouping move to the ball, so that it can be attacked.

it is not easy to use it effectively if on the other side you have an organized team. and also even if used well there are many ways to mitigate or avoid his work.

look at the matter from this perspective and perhaps you will also agree that the correction that the administrator has made is perhaps not exactly in the right direction.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

3 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Bubble was not used for boon removal what ever some might think, it was used for boon replication denial primarily. There are better and stronger options for boon removal and projectile denial. Every time I read someone praise the boon removal capabilities of WoD I know exactly where to place their WvW experience.

Correct, I know typically my WoD wasn't even 20% of my overall boon removal. From watching arcdps in a zerg fight it was a small fraction from my overall boon removal, and I'm typically in the top 3 on boon removal in my group if I'm not first.

[God.2708]

If you are disorganized no amount of bubbles is going to let you take down a 'boon ball'. The amount of people saying you can just press W is the counter is blowing my mind.

You know who takes advantage of a bubble? That group that drops the bubble, uses immobilizes multiple times, and drops grav wells in and around the bubble so after you dodge you still get CCed. You know who doesn't take advantage of a bubble? Those solo players who drop it on the blob who then just W-key out of it because they didn't even strip enough to make the boon denial important.

One of those playstyles got hurt by the boon denial being deleted.

You know what zerg busting groups did to blobs to break them? Drop a bubble to kill 5 players. You know what blobs (with two brain cells) did to deal with zerg busting groups? Drop 3 bubbles twice in a row to kill the entire zerg busting group.

One of the playstyles got hurt more by the boon denial being deleted.

Good players will adapt and stop trying to one trick something that only favors either group stealth one shots or blobs.

[Cyninja.2954]

2 hours ago, God.2708 said:

If you are disorganized no amount of bubbles is going to let you take down a 'boon ball'. The amount of people saying you can just press W is the counter is blowing my mind.

 

Except that is just what you do. unless we are talking serious blob v blob fights, in which case I would hope no participant of such game play would even remotely come and make claims that bubble is unbeatable or has no counter. The entire support meta is setup to ensure as best as possible players can move as freely as possible. Most of all super speed.

 

So yes, on the level of discussion and skill presented here: pressing W is more than enough.

2 hours ago, God.2708 said:

You know who takes advantage of a bubble? That group that drops the bubble, uses immobilizes multiple times, and drops grav wells in and around the bubble so after you dodge you still get CCed. You know who doesn't take advantage of a bubble? Those solo players who drop it on the blob who then just W-key out of it because they didn't even strip enough to make the boon denial important.

 

Except if you counter bubbel or better yet counter bubbel with breach, in which case you can take advantage of an opponents bubble and push or at the very least deny them as much boon support as possible while being pushed.

 

This is not as binary a situation as you claim or make it out to be.

2 hours ago, God.2708 said:

One of those playstyles got hurt by the boon denial being deleted.

Yes, bubbel got removed from the meta and all play with and around it was too. That's not 1 play style, that's an entire pallet of situations gone.

 

2 hours ago, God.2708 said:

You know what zerg busting groups did to blobs to break them? Drop a bubble to kill 5 players. You know what blobs (with two brain cells) did to deal with zerg busting groups? Drop 3 bubbles twice in a row to kill the entire zerg busting group.

 

How is comparing 1 bubbel to 3 a valid comparison? What if your zerg busting group only had 1 bubbel? What if you are fighting undermanned with 20 versus a blob of 60? What were those players bringing besides bubbels on those 2 slots?

 

You make it sound as though chaining bubbels is some sort of big brain move. It's not. It was beneficial to have 4-6 warriors in blob fights of 50+ v 50+. Now it's not anymore and those slots can go to other classes.

2 hours ago, God.2708 said:

One of the playstyles got hurt more by the boon denial being deleted.

Good players will adapt and stop trying to one trick something that only favors either group stealth one shots or blobs.

 

Good players will always adapt. That was never the premise here.

 

In this case, chances are high they will simply adapt without warriors or WoD in the future.