Alternative path for PVE Legendary Armor

[Peterson.5172]

12 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

Please explain how the timing of when resources were allocated to either of these matter?  What if all the resources for WvW and sPvP were allocated across the same timeframe as raids?  The resource costs are still the same.  In all cases, players that don’t play those content still bankrolled them. You arguing as if when the resources were spent makes absolutely no sense. 

the resource costs are not the same, a shoddy "alliance system" costs less than raids.

i didnt focus on the timing, but i dont see why it doesnt make sense

- wvw gets played actively (anet's words) for 5 years, they get a new map (a bit late in my opinion)

- raid doesnt get played actively, no more raids (i'm surprised they didnt stop making raids sooner tbh)

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

5 minutes ago, Peterson.5172 said:

well anet already decided it doesnt deserve attention, the raid team got put onto other things, i didnt make that decision, raiders did.

you see, tradable LI = more people playing raids = more raids from anet. but if you rather hold onto your "prestige"... we had 5 years of trial with raids, enticing people in with a carrot didnt work. you want more raids? get more people playing them.

Tradable LI wouldn't make more people try Raids.

EoD Strikes with the exception of HT are easier than than Escort, Trio or Spirit Woods, and reward an LI each week for finishing them once, yet they didn't really bring in more people into instanced content.

LI is also used as a KP in Raids, being able to buy LI would allow you to fake your "experience" and would probably result in an increase in LI gates, something people already complain enough about.
There is also a title requiring you to bind all 3 Raid sets, it would have to be changed in order to retain it's "big pp Raider" function.

[mythical.6315]

14 minutes ago, Peterson.5172 said:

well anet already decided it doesnt deserve attention, the raid team got put onto other things, i didnt make that decision, raiders did.

you see, tradable LI = more people playing raids = more raids from anet. but if you rather hold onto your "prestige"... we had 5 years of trial with raids, enticing people in with a carrot didnt work. you want more raids? get more people playing them.

Tradeable LI won’t mean more players do raids. They’ll actually result in less new people doing them. Enticing players with a carrot has worked as many have done them for the legendary armor. The issue is that the rewards beyond that are terrible. Raids were designed to be the most challenging content in the game so they’re weren’t going to attract as many players as an LS episode would regardless of the carrot. 
 

ArenaNet made the decision as they have in all other areas of the game except for strikes and living story. This wasn’t unique to raids. Raiders really had no part in the decision. 

[mythical.6315]

18 minutes ago, Peterson.5172 said:

the resource costs are not the same, a shoddy "alliance system" costs less than raids.

i didnt focus on the timing, but i dont see why it doesnt make sense

- wvw gets played actively (anet's words) for 5 years, they get a new map (a bit late in my opinion)

- raid doesnt get played actively, no more raids (i'm surprised they didnt stop making raids sooner tbh)

You did focus on the timing when you made the implementation of WvW and sPvP and the implementation of raids to be different solely based on their release timing. 
 

As far as your claims about what is and isn’t actively played, do you have proof to support them?  

Edited April 11, 2022 by mythical.6315

[Hashberry.4510]

With leggy stuff driving the economy it looks like an OW path will work well as another mat sink. We always need stuff to drain all the goodies they give us. Moar demand to suck up all this supply!

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

So, making a Legendary armor set "just like Aurora" would be a bigger success - despite Aurora II sitting at 13% compared to Envoy II's 11% on GW2Efficiency - because it would be aimed at a different part of the community. What part of the community is Aurora aimed at? It's an OW Legendary trinket.

Well, yes. By any means 13% is higher than 11%, don't you agree? Aurora, as such, is a bigger success than Envoy, even though it's usefulness is much lower than for armor (seeing as ascended trinkets are extremely easy to obtain in large quantities even for mostly casual players - both with low effort, and for very cheap - and that there's no issue with rune swapping that armor has).

Edited April 11, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[Raizel.8175]

Currently asking myself how the recipe for open world legendary armor should look like. How should a "Gift of Open World Mastery" look like? A "full" expansion gift (Maguuma Mastery, Desert Mastery, etc.) per piece os probably asking for too much. Do we take one of the lesser gifts like the Gift of Arid Mastery (for which we have to create equivalents for Maguuma and Cantha) each and a Gift of Exploration as parts of a "Gift of Open World Mastery"? Do we put non-tradeable Tokens to timegate the whole affair behind some defining meta events like Dragon's End, Dragon's Stand, Serpent's Ire and Triple Trouble? Do we include all eight Dungeon Gifts? I'm already seeing the complaints about these requirements from several people.

How do we take care that Open World legendary armor won't invalidate other legendary armor sets? Even though it probably won't be the case, Champion's Regalia set a precedent of invalidating PvP's Transcendence.

I genuinely believe that legendary armor in raids is just fine. People just have to go for it. That's simply how MMOs work. You can't just have every reward in autopilot content. W1-4 also aren't that difficult. They're by no means as hardcore as some people depict them to be.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

7 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Well, yes. By any means 13% is higher than 11%, don't you agree? Aurora, as such, is a bigger success than Envoy, even though it's usefulness is much lower than for armor (seeing as ascended trinkets are extremely easy to obtain in large quantities even for mostly casual players - both with low effort, and for very cheap - and that there's no issue with rune swapping that armor has).

Now we kinda loop back to one of my original points. I already noted that Aurora's collections were done by more people than the Raid armor collections, it sounds awesome, but then again, comparing fully OW to Raiding 13-11 isn't that nice.

Do you think giving people a way to earn Legendary OW armor - without invalidating already existing Legendary armor(like what the Champion Regalia did to Transcendence to an extent) - would be utilized by more than the afore mentioned 13%? You require feats that would warrant the "Legendary" title in the armor you run the risk of complaints regarding such requirements.

 

[Caitmonster.9036]

As someone who was/still kind of is a casual, I sorta learned how to raid to A) witness story beats otherwise inaccessible and B) to access raid armor. Finishing those achieves and getting that first set felt *so* good, and I'd said I'd never make the other 2 sets. That was like... 3 years ago. I've now got all 3. It took a while because I pugged with randos or signed up for guild training runs and basically grubbed along until I got enough LI for the gifts. Now I have resumed my grubbing ways and am slowly building up my LDs for Coal after vowing to never do it, so there's that.
 

Making an openworld (read: casual) variant of legendary armor just doesn't sit great with me, unless it's literally for the utility of having legendary armor and you get no benefits beyond that. No fancy disco rave skin, just generic t1 armor skin that grants you the functionality and nothing more. That way the openworlders will have to do achievements and what you might consider "aspirational content" for the skins to reskin their uggo basic legendary armor. 😆

[Rinagal.9235]

22 minutes ago, Raizel.8175 said:

I genuinely believe that legendary armor in raids is just fine. People just have to go for it. That's simply how MMOs work. You can't just have every reward in autopilot content. W1-4 also aren't that difficult. They're by no means as hardcore as some people depict them to be.

And again, and again, and again.

a) I would like to hear what else MMOs reward legendary armor from raids, legendary armor which only advantage over previous gear tier is QoL. Is it WoW? I can't remember WoW to have legendary armor at all tbh. Maybe FF14 or ESO, what are those MMOs?

b) "Autopilot content". Dismissive treatment: check.

c) In this specific topic i can't recall someone complained about raid difficulty, so i don't understand why you continue to bring this up?

[warherox.7943]

18 minutes ago, Caitmonster.9036 said:

As someone who was/still kind of is a casual, I sorta learned how to raid to A) witness story beats otherwise inaccessible and B) to access raid armor. Finishing those achieves and getting that first set felt *so* good, and I'd said I'd never make the other 2 sets. That was like... 3 years ago. I've now got all 3. It took a while because I pugged with randos or signed up for guild training runs and basically grubbed along until I got enough LI for the gifts. Now I have resumed my grubbing ways and am slowly building up my LDs for Coal after vowing to never do it, so there's that.
 

Making an openworld (read: casual) variant of legendary armor just doesn't sit great with me, unless it's literally for the utility of having legendary armor and you get no benefits beyond that. No fancy disco rave skin, just generic t1 armor skin that grants you the functionality and nothing more. That way the openworlders will have to do achievements and what you might consider "aspirational content" for the skins to reskin their uggo basic legendary armor. 😆

The massive QoL buff shouldn't have been gated behind legendaries, so the more ways we have of getting legendary armor the better.  Though I wish Anet would get rid of time gates. 

[xenon.3264]

39 minutes ago, Caitmonster.9036 said:

  No fancy disco rave skin, just generic t1 armor skin that grants you the functionality and nothing more. That way the openworlders will have to do achievements and what you might consider "aspirational content" for the skins to reskin their uggo basic legendary armor. 😆

i would not even use the raid legendary skin. i like how you see this as a negative point while it's actually something not relevant.

 

legendary amulet we got with season of the dragon is how legendary armor should be implemented and how it will probably will be implemented with this expansion 

 

raids are not THE endgame. after 12 years you should have realized that gw2 players are 40 45 years old who used to play wow or other mmo and have NO MORE TIME for hardcore gaming. 

 

there are no more raids since none do them or at best it's a small minority . someone said that envoy armor was completed by 13% of population while legendary amulet with story and open world content by 11% . this speaks loudly.

 

anyway i do not understand why so many people are against a legendary armor for others . it won't remov eyours. 

[Gibson.4036]

31 minutes ago, xenon.3264 said:

 

 

anyway i do not understand why so many people are against a legendary armor for others . it won't remov eyours. 

I remember when people were asking for raids shortly after launch. People against the idea explained that if raids got added, people who did them would want a level of gear to be exclusive to them. That argument was dismissed by more than one person as ridiculous.
 

1 hour ago, Caitmonster.9036 said:

 

Making an openworld (read: casual) variant of legendary armor just doesn't sit great with me, unless it's literally for the utility of having legendary armor and you get no benefits beyond that. No fancy disco rave skin, just generic t1 armor skin that grants you the functionality and nothing more. That way the openworlders will have to do achievements and what you might consider "aspirational content" for the skins to reskin their uggo basic legendary armor. 😆

Sounds excellent. I’ve no interest in leggie armor skins.  Legendary utility, however, would be a huge QoL improvement.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[daesz.2439]

I loved to raid in gw1 (fow/uw/doa/deep/urgoz) and wow, but all these "holymoly you used skill1 over skill2 in your rotation and losrt 0.0008364% dps" elitists really makes gw2 raids not enjoyable. Id like to get the pve lege armor skins, but i already have wvw legendary armor set done :/

Would be great if LI could become tradable and we could unloxk the pve skins by having pvp/wvw armor crafted + use LI to unlock skins. Crafting another set makes 0 sense at all.

[Mr BBIB.4608]

On 4/10/2022 at 10:12 AM, Erise.5614 said:

I heavily agree with the sentiment. But it can not be designed around LI. LI didn't have a sink for too long now. LI isn't designed to be part of the TP economy.

Any alternative acquisition path would need to be long and expensive independent of LI to retain the value and status of legendary items as long term goals. It could be a currency tied to raids, CM strikes, wvw, pvp, all of them or something else. But it would have to be designed as tradable item from the beginning. You can't turn just any account bound item into a tradable one. And it would still need a considerable time investment on top of the gold investment.

E.g. after you started a collection, complete 500 events in an expansion. 

Legendary items mustn't be devalued. An alternative path towards one would be nice but it has to take equal effort. If the tasks are easier it must take longer and / or be more expensive to a proportional degree. 

I agree with this option more. Use something else entirely dependent on that mode only. 

 

And for the comment about just needing hard work and play through content you don't like, then by that all pvp/wvw exclusive content should be removed. They can only do pvp or wvw and get anything. So they should also have to do pve. If modes they don't like...

[Kredo.5640]

Something something make legendaries easier to acquire. But then what's the point of challenging contents? Why do they even exist? Why exist then the rewards aren't even unique? lol 

I know there are moms and dads out there that have to take care of families and 40 hrs jobs every week, but you doing a full clear raid with a group you usually run with is at most 5 hours. The first 2-4 runs together might be messy because you guys need to sort out a few stuff but 5 hours a week is too much for you guys, I don't even know why you even play the game. Waiting for the whole entire HoT rotation is already 2 hours, so what hurts you so bad to spend 5 hours into raiding with friends and the community? 

Not everyone needs to full clear to get the LI either. Each boss/event gives 1 LI, and you need 150 LI in total for the first armor set. Each boss/event is like 3-5 minutes if people just know the mechanics. The DPS don't have to be amazing either to clear a boss, just need enough sustains to push through. 

Every other MMOs, every other games to be exact, there are always challenging mechanics/rules and such to keep the game interesting. So back to the questions above? Why even have raids if the rewards would be so easy to acquire? Even card games require the players to know the rules to be able to play. Learning the rules, you can LITERALLY can just google search engine it like you do in your jobs. 

Please, stop begging to make challenging rewards easier to acquire, this game is already so kittening easy that so many end game players quit. Play the goddamn game.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Kredo.5640

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Now we kinda loop back to one of my original points. I already noted that Aurora's collections were done by more people than the Raid armor collections, it sounds awesome, but then again, comparing fully OW to Raiding 13-11 isn't that nice.

I was not bringing that up to be nice. I was doing it to point to you that you're being inconsistent. If a certain percentage of players obtaining that armor through one type of content is good enough, then a similar (and even somewhat higher) percentage of players potentially obtaining it from a completely different content should be equally fine.

Quote

Do you think giving people a way to earn Legendary OW armor - without invalidating already existing Legendary armor(like what the Champion Regalia did to Transcendence to an extent) - would be utilized by more than the afore mentioned 13%? You require feats that would warrant the "Legendary" title in the armor you run the risk of complaints regarding such requirements.

See above - 13% more players with legendary armor than we already have would already be fine. But yes, i would expect that for actual armor, assuming similar effort required as with Aurora, and similar cost as the raid/WvW/SPvP armors, the percentage would actually be significantly higher. Armor is just way more desirable than a trinket. In reality, we should be more comparing it to legendary weapons than Aurora.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[Zily.3152]

I have a crazy idea. How about, ohhhh I don't know... do the content and get the rewards? You don't need shiny PvE armor when WvW and PvP work the same. Don't like the 3 ways to get armor? Then just don't get the armor. Not a hard concept. If you want the items, do what is required to get the items like everyone else who has the items did. Just my two cents. Love it or hate it, I don't care.

[Fuchslein.8639]

1 hour ago, Mr BBIB.4608 said:

I agree with this option more. Use something else entirely dependent on that mode only. 

 

And for the comment about just needing hard work and play through content you don't like, then by that all pvp/wvw exclusive content should be removed. They can only do pvp or wvw and get anything. So they should also have to do pve. If modes they don't like...

Ehrm ... you know that WVW and PVP need tot do pve for almost all legys besides the armor?

The only thing that is gated behind wvw and pvp is the legy armor and the Backpack's(and i can't say if there is not a few pve-things they have to do). Rest is all pve.

To ask for removing stuff because you have ONE thing that you can not braindead grind in pve is some next lvl karenism.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Fuchslein.8639

[Redfeather.6401]

GW2's Legendaries are a great example of a game studio 'jumping the shark'.  I'm not going to say anything more than that, but the industry knows it is true.

[Lion.6590]

If Anet wants to clean up the LFG they can simply prohibit the advertising of any content selling in the LFG.

I honestly don't care if they add a way to convert ascended armor into legendary armor just for the legendary convenience, but keep in mind that a legendary armor won't save you from getting crushed in DE meta because you can't walk out of the obvious boss AoE attack. Also, this armour should have the basic ascended skin and not the Raid one, if you want the Raid skin then you need to do Raids.

[Mr BBIB.4608]

And leg armor is what this topic is about. As for removing them that was to another comment saying if you don't like doing something to bad do it anyway. I was pointing out those were made so they didn't have to. So by their logic their should be removed. I just think if some modes get a different way to get the same thing others should as well.

 

That's more of what I'm looking for, just a different leg armor. Skin doesn't matter because I'm just going to change look anyway

Edited April 12, 2022 by Mr BBIB.4608

[Mr BBIB.4608]

30 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

Ehrm ... you know that WVW and PVP need tot do pve for almost all legys besides the armor?

The only thing that is gated behind wvw and pvp is the legy armor and the Backpack's(and i can't say if there is not a few pve-things they have to do). Rest is all pve.

To ask for removing stuff because you have ONE thing that you can not braindead grind in pve is some next lvl karenism.

 

[Rinagal.9235]

4 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

Ehrm ... you know that WVW and PVP need tot do pve for almost all legys besides the armor?

 

Technically only for legendary accessories. SPvP has armor, amulet and backpack, WvW has armor, backpack and rings (you can equip 2 rings from WvW). Weapons can be bought from TP for gold directly and for legendary upgrades aside from gold only require from you to get to related merchants that can exchange certain items (and many of those items don't require to play any for of PvE, like Obsidian Shards or Mystic Stones) for provisioner's tokens and then for Gift of Craftsmanship. Even if you cut out weapons, playing WvW + sPvP provide you with options for legendary gear almost for every slot possible. And if player plays WvW or sPvP exclusively, it only additionaly cut this player out of amulet or rings relatively.

So i don't know what do you mean be by "almost all leggys", when in fact it only accessories + rings for sPvP or accessories + amulet for WvW, and weapons if you don't count buying them from TP as option. And if WvWers or sPvPers gonna ask for alternative ways for obtaining legendary accessories or weapons for them, none of those who asking for OW legendary armor gonna oppose that.

OW only has accessories, amulet and weapons that can be obtained exclusively from OW, though weapons are somewhat of being debatable, since you still have to play WvW to craft one.

 

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Rinagal.9235

[Fuchslein.8639]

14 minutes ago, Rinagal.9235 said:

 

Technically only for legendary accessories. SPvP has armor, amulet and backpack, WvW has armor, backpack and rings (you can equip 2 rings from WvW). Weapons can be bought from TP for gold directly and for legendary upgrades aside from gold only require from you to get to related merchants that can exchange certain items (and many of those items don't require to play any for of PvE, like Obsidian Shards or Mystic Stones) for provisioner's tokens and then for Gift of Craftsmanship. Even if you cut out weapons, playing WvW + sPvP provide you with options for legendary gear almost for every slot possible. And if player plays WvW or sPvP exclusively, it only additionaly cut this player out of amulet or rings relatively.

So i don't know what do you mean be by "almost all leggys", when in fact it only accessories + rings for sPvP or accessories + amulet for WvW, and weapons if you don't count buying them from TP as option. And if WvWers or sPvPers gonna ask for alternative ways for obtaining legendary accessories or weapons for them, none of those who asking for OW legendary armor gonna oppose that.

OW only has accessories, amulet and weapons that can be obtained exclusively from OW, thought weapons are somewhat of being debatable, since you still have to play WvW to craft one.

 

 

You can also buy the Raid armor achievments for the Raid part. Then you can do the rest in the OW.

Also, i never said i'm against an OW legendary armor, quite the contrary. But people asking to remove stuff from other content just because they dont have one thing and other stuff wahat so called casuals here tell is just not okay.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Fuchslein.8639