Grand Marshal.4098 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 Just a question. We all know how some eles chain invulns and sustain 10 people, but can't do dmg. But what's up with some catalysts who heal to 100%, chain said invulns and not only tank 10 people, but can actually kill while doing dmg. So have you seen anyone like this? I have and let me tell you it;s dumb. 2 2 2 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozumi.5816 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 (edited) Weavers have been doing this for a long, long time. The strat to fighting an ele is "turn around and hold the W button in the opposite direction" - much like most classes and builds are. Yay WvW balance! Edited April 16, 2022 by Kozumi.5816 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rider.6024 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 there is no build that can tank 10 people new cata utility w focus earth 5 and precast earth shield is a bit much but just you wait to hear about stealth on dodge deadeye or signet shatter mirage 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telgum.6071 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 Jack of all trades class + King of all trades gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Za Shaloc.3908 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 It's likely a combination of stab on aura to make them really hard to CC, big magnetic and shocking aura uptime to add in a lot of ranged/melee denial, people stacking and eating all of their AoEs, fair mobility to be able to kite some, and celestial gear. They are quite strong but nothing out of the ordinary in terms of what kind of build you can make work in WvW with cele gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroud.2307 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 (edited) Your options: 1 player can't kill them? Bring another. 2 can't kill them? Bring another. 3 can't kill them? ... Bring a; Necro, Thief, or Mesmer.BOON HATE. Quaggan tonic and flee. Kind of getting outside the topic here but, there are lots of things that are obnoxious and/or very difficult to kill 1 v 1 in WvW. Catalyst ain't unique, and like everything it has its weaknesses. This is another matter of Celestial being too good. I don't think it's ever good to blanket nerf things, but Celestial is a special case where the bottom line is that it offers too much and makes every other hybrid stat irrelevant. It doesn't matter if only some things can get the maximum value out of it. It doesn't matter if it's only a issue in roaming. The stat is bloated, limits diversity, and makes some things stronger than they have any right to be. Personally, I enjoy Cele. I like how it feels to use, and I do sometimes use it. I'm not going to complain if ANet never nerfs it, but it absolutely deserves to be. Edited April 15, 2022 by Shroud.2307 1 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serephen.3420 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 It's the only kind of cata that stands a chance in the current roaming meta to be fair. But it most certainly can't take on that many. I am curious though, was it hammer or dagger. I'm gonna guess dagger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 Melee ele completely hardcounter certain builds making them essentially immortal. Anything with mostly condi dmg, ranged and slow/less than reliable attacks (like say engineer pistols) is going to have a very hard time breaking through their sustain. You cant really stalemate them either because they do so much constant damage you cant win in the long run. But thats what backup is for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serephen.3420 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 7 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said: Melee ele completely hardcounter certain builds making them essentially immortal. Anything with mostly condi dmg, ranged and slow/less than reliable attacks (like say engineer pistols) is going to have a very hard time breaking through their sustain. You cant really stalemate them either because they do so much constant damage you cant win in the long run. But thats what backup is for. Would still say chill and immob are still some of the strongest counters to melee ele. That and high burst before they get the chance to heal back up. Fighting one lb sb might not be so bad but 2 is rough, then fighting a de or dd those are a pain too. Engie it really depends, it used to give more trouble than it does now. Mirage still can hold it's own as well 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 39 minutes ago, Serephen.3420 said: Would still say chill and immob are still some of the strongest counters to melee ele. That and high burst before they get the chance to heal back up. Fighting one lb sb might not be so bad but 2 is rough, then fighting a de or dd those are a pain too. Engie it really depends, it used to give more trouble than it does now. Mirage still can hold it's own as well You cant apply any condi to a properly built ele unless you completely overwhelm them and get them below 75% hp in an instant, that's the point. Hence the part with the slow/less reliable attacks. Some builds just cant do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serephen.3420 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 Just now, Dawdler.8521 said: You cant apply any condi to a properly built ele unless you completely overwhelm them and get them below 75% hp in an instant, that's the point. Hence the part with the slow/less reliable attacks. Some builds just cant do that. Yeah, some builds can't, but reliable chill application does shut down or hinder most ele builds. A build specifically made to counter condi will of course do better against condi. It's just more likely to encounter those as most roamers tend to run condi over power these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alteriel valie.4751 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 yeah one day was a catalyst guy who had take no damage build,tried to kill him and i failed,called on map and 2 more came to kill him,we failed! after 30mins of chasing we left him alone.Everyone knew on map he cant be killed so none bothered to fight! i saw him standing alone on anza hill and doing nothing,just kill doly for sm.He was jumping for fight but everyone avoid him! 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Marshal.4098 Posted April 15, 2022 Author Share Posted April 15, 2022 Yeah the number of shocking and magnetic auras he had made it tough to anyone to rly channel a hit. Especially in those skirmish situations with few people between SM and Keeps where they went melee all the time. Earth Shield invuln, then double Obsidian Flesh, Mist Form, then second shield invuln, all the while popping the sphere on them with the invulns and comboing it with the dagger for high stab uptime. And when I did role my necro, I barely could tag them for corrupts. They were being killed after a couple of minutes of several people focusing target, but it's beyond them being unable to kill the cata when they get "invuln" or "evaded" messages all the time, if not reflected/CC'd by auras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gitssac.7302 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 There are certain WvW commanders that will run Cele Weaver specifically so they can PPT without dying. If you ever see the OCX SoS commander doing their thing, they take their 70 man zerg to a keep, throw down siege, open the objective and let the defaults take the place over while he ports to another map and goes for something else. I think the Cele Weaver build is specifically used so he can sustain long enough in a small vanguard fight for the map queue to come to the rescue. Overall though it's busted. Condi cleanse on regen, swiftness gives regen, you get swiftness all the time. Basically unkillable unless you're a full damage spike class that gets the drop on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotride.2187 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 4 hours ago, alteriel valie.4751 said: He was jumping for fight but everyone avoid him! 😂 The one downside of playing boring and/broken crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 (edited) "Unkillable...ele"...my reaction... Dear god......what a claim for gw2 ele in 2022...... 1vs10?...yeah average player can vs x10 AI bots I guess, or something similar Edited April 15, 2022 by Arheundel.6451 1 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Marshal.4098 Posted April 15, 2022 Author Share Posted April 15, 2022 6 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said: "Unkillable...ele"...my reaction... Dear god......what a claim for gw2 ele in 2022...... 1vs10?...yeah average player can vs x10 AI bots I guess, or something similar Well, it does exist belive it or not. Ele in WvW can be built to be unkillble that's been a thing before, seems like catalyst simply has more tools added to it now, like Elemental Celerity double Obsidian Flesh. Very fun stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said: Well, it does exist belive it or not. Ele in WvW can be built to be unkillble that's been a thing before, seems like catalyst simply has more tools added to it now, like Elemental Celerity double Obsidian Flesh. Very fun stuff! Yeah? You can build unkillable anything in this game if you add enough minstrel, cele gear or have access to the right mechanics, there are ventari/jalis renegade, shout bladesworn, cele scrappers, cele harbingers, set core necro, condi druids, boonbeast, shadow art deadeye, cele mirages... Obsidian flesh? ha yes the 50s CD skill and then doubled using a 60s CD elite...rest of the time, the ele survives because the enemies are clueless and just spam skill off CD, I can imagine an ele winning vs X..with people ranged bursting into swirling winds or reflect....warriors dancing into shocking aura and condibots spamming condis while water off CD. More tools? The catalyst line got no swiftness or regen ...so eles go fire line, outside access to 2x extra boons, a catalyst is exactly a core ele with few extra gimmicks...and nobody runs it outside trolling newbs in wvw at 3am. Yet have to see a single catalyst winning even a single 1v1 vs decent player....within the 5m mark and you want to nerf catalyst....yes ofc no problem you can nerf catalyst..but only after we demolish out of existence the builds I have mentioned P.S A single burst from my build on ranger and the catalyst goes down...the same burst...a cele scrapper will laugh at me while superspeed away spamming grenades and supported by barrier spam...the cele mirage does x2 distortion into stealth and jaunt away...laughing and the de thief..and the bladesworn spamming might makes me right........but yeah....let's complain about the catalyst... Edited April 16, 2022 by Arheundel.6451 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 Ever thought about the fact that most people running around in WvW are either a zergling or a new player? Both dont have builds designed to kill a single person. A good roamer can bully multible zerglings and even kill them because of that fact. Add a lower skill level of the average zergling + way lower dmg output and boom! "Unkillable Catalyst" 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Marshal.4098 Posted April 16, 2022 Author Share Posted April 16, 2022 My dudes. I was there, I was commenting on it with some guildies. 3 players in around a minute could take them down, but the build was very obnoxious to fight against. I don't personally care if it's Ele rn, renegade later or necromancer, all I care about is that celestial is bloated and enables high sustain and tankiness while maintaining respectable dmg, unlike your minstrel stance warrior, another class regarded as unkillable, despite the fact that it has 0 invuln frames while the catalyst could chain 5 invulns...Not saying they need to be nerfed, saying there is a difference. 3 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 (edited) 21 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said: "Unkillable...ele"...my reaction... Dear god......what a claim for gw2 ele in 2022...... 1vs10?...yeah average player can vs x10 AI bots I guess, or something similar IT IS POSSIBLE!!!! 6 were condi bunker that think they only thing they need is condi spam... 0 boon removals :) like 100% of the ktrain cannon fodder. the other 4 were the condi bunkers minstrells supporters :P Edited April 16, 2022 by Aeolus.3615 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotride.2187 Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Aeolus.3615 said: 6 were condi bunker that think they only thing they need is condi spam... 0 boon removals 🙂 like 100% of the ktrain cannon fodder. the other 4 were the condi bunkers minstrells supporters Isn't roaming in the best state ever... They really shouldn't have touched resistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santo.2419 Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 Definitely possible. Though, it was a tempest for me. Was one only the other day and I'd wonder if we had more than 10 on it..maybe even some ac's. He was just moving around the gate of a defended keep by himself. My ren can burst pretty well, but his health would not budge, and was a heap of capable wvw's also belting on him. Although, looking into these kinds of builds they seem to be especially good against missiles I'm seeing. Also doing decent aoe dmg as he went along. I mean we could get him close, but he'd just move away after a while. (had spawn invincible to run to) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 4 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said: IT IS POSSIBLE!!!! 6 were condi bunker that think they only thing they need is condi spam... 0 boon removals 🙂 like 100% of the ktrain cannon fodder. the other 4 were the condi bunkers minstrells supporters 😛 Yeah....let's just say all that condi spam doesn't do good to one's ability to strategize ...say no more...the mods are on us 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 Throw them off a cliff. Gravity doesn't discriminate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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