Im pretty sick of failing Dragons End meta

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The problem with Seitung tutorial is not that it's too hard. It's that it is not good enough, and as such does not do teaching well. The example i gave you (the attack avoidance tutorial)? It does not progress the heart if you are fast enough you can simply walk out of AoE before it shoots (or just never stand within it). Even dodging out of it does not count if you do it too fast. This leaves many players totally confused, and goes against teaching the right reactions. Notice, that does not necessarily mean that a better tutorial is even possible - it may just be a result of some technical limitations. It does however mean that this specific totorial is mostly useless.

Nah, it is good at explaining/reminding the mechanics, but it's nonsense to expect it to be some sort of "be-all end-all tutorials" type of thing. After understanding the mechanics of the game, gaining experience through gameplay is how you get better at the game. It really isn't rocket sceince nor is it somehow new or exclusive for this specific game. Apparently "the tutorial isn't good enough" unless you can go from 0 to 100 in 10 minutes, that's just ridiculous.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

Side Note:wtf why should we make 10 groups of organized subs thats just kittening unfair to who ever is stuck on Com

That's because in this event dps is the king, so you really need good boon coverage. And with boons nowadays being reduced (again) to 5-man, you need 5-man squads each with proper boon setup (alac, quick, might, fury).

[Astralporing.1957]

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Nah, it is good at explaining/reminding the mechanics, but it's nonsense to expect it to be some sort of "be-all end-all tutorials" type of thing. After understanding the mechanics of the game, gaining experience through gameplay is how you get better at the game. It really isn't rocket sceince nor is it somehow new or exclusive for this specific game. Apparently "the tutorial isn't good enough" unless you can go from 0 to 100 in 10 minutes, that's just ridiculous.

No, it is good at reminding the mechanics. To those that already do not need it explained. If someone does need it explained, this "trainer" does nothing. I mean, the infamous dodge tutorial of starting zones does its work better...

Edited June 5, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[Sobx.1758]

11 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It does not progress the heart if you are fast enough you can simply walk out of AoE before it shoots

ah and btw, that's false, it does still progress the heart, not sure why you feel the need to make up things like this.

 

3 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

No, it is good at reminding the mechanics. To those that already do not need it explained. If someone does need it explained, this "trainer" does nothing. I mean, the infamous dodge tutorial of starting zones does its work better...

No, it's also good at teaching them. But once again, the player that will skip any (since it really isn't long at all) reading will skip the tutorial and then complain that there's no tutorial. 🙄

Edited June 5, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Moradorin.6217]

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That's because in this event dps is the king, so you really need good boon coverage. And with boons nowadays being reduced (again) to 5-man, you need 5-man squads each with proper boon setup (alac, quick, might, fury).

Right IMO its also why the meta is so trash. That is, the meta has sub groups (usually no sub tags) that have to constantly move and people cant see who is in sub vs not-sub cause the squad system is very limited and not meant for this level of organization. So it kinda just all falls apart. What I mean is, if Im doing alac or quickness and everyone moves for a wave, bubbles what ever or to side plats people move out of boon range. So IMO the meta shouldnt even need boons TBH

[Astralporing.1957]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

ah and btw, that's false, it does still progress the heart.

At some point i was so curious about it that i have managed to spend over 10 minutes in that place without ever getting hit once, and with exactly zero heart progress. Then i got bored.

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

At some point i was so curious about it that i have managed to spend over 10 minutes in that place without ever getting hit once, and with exactly zero heart progress. Then i got bored.

Because you kept getting hit inbetween, but even without that, stepping out of the zone or simply not getting hit by it does progress the heart. Stop making up things, ty.

(yes, I did check that in the past. It accumulates a few -maybe 5- ""dodges"" in a row to grant you bigger chunks of heart progression. Other than that the progress is rather small, but you're just wrong here and at this point you're just making kitten up)

Edited June 5, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

The only reason the event success rate is so high is because no one even bothers attempting it unless there is an organized 50 person squad.

[Vaen.2605]

23 hours ago, Caliboom.3218 said:

People here seem to be forgetting that even if you have a meta build, even if you do 30k+ dps, it won't matter, because there's a chance that the dps from the average player in your squad is garbage.

So, even if you know traits, skills, and how to make a good build, it might not matter because some people in your squad probably don't, and you sure as hell aren't going around teaching randoms how to get better.

Yeah, this is 100% my issue.  Those with high success rates have mentioned that they join the same squads daily for this meta, something I'm unable to do, and is likely the case for a large chunk of the playerbase.  Personally I don't think this exclusionary approach is what GW2 is about, but that's just my opinion.  Was past-due to explore other games anyways.

[Dante.1508]

As i said in other threads failed 5 out of 6 attempts thats enough for this casual.. i gave up doing plus op the rewards are terrible.. even the turtle is pretty useless. I got it my first attempt luckily.. but never beat it again.

Haven't bothered with EoD in a few days, it was designed all wrong meta wise. Failure with a capital F, Kaineng is just as bad not enough waypoints imo.

2 hours ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

Actual Dead Game at this point

More of a dead EoD.. the Tyria maps are full. in my oceanic time zones.. EoD is dead. Pof is somewhat plenty HoT less so (i think people gave up on hot because the Hero points can't be soloed and not enough help).

Edited June 5, 2022 by Dante.1508

[Astralporing.1957]

5 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

More of a dead EoD.. the Tyria maps are full. in my oceanic time zones.. EoD is dead. Pof is somewhat plenty HoT less so (i think people gave up on hot because the Hero points can't be soloed and not enough help).

HoT is okay at the times metas run. You can often see a lot of players at the map then. PoF is the other way - a bit higher "normal" player count, but you won't see big player waves for metas. In fact, you don't even see metas being attempted all that often.

[Sobx.1758]

9 hours ago, Vaen.2605 said:

Those with high success rates have mentioned that they join the same squads daily for this meta

Wrong, I'm only playing that meta through lfg and still succeed more often than not. But if you'll try to join last minute, you'll have a bad time. Still the biggest issue with this event I see is the time it takes. You don't need to join same squads daily as you're suggesting.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Gorem.8104]

22 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Remove map prep, add 10 stacks during escorts. Congrats weve got 45 min meta. 

You started the fix with 5 stacks during escorts. Correct path, didnt do much. Just go all the way. 

My best guess as to why they didn't do that is it kinda defeats the purpose of it existing if it just gives it to us anyway. Though right now would indeed be the perfect bandaid fix for its own issue for existing without needing to re-balance the fight to account for not having it. 
Not too sure why they went this buff route anyway compared to their tried and true way usually, like in HoT and Drizzlewood, where we get rewards for doing the work while doing the work.  

[Gehenna.3625]

20 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

The only reason the event success rate is so high is because no one even bothers attempting it unless there is an organized 50 person squad.

Indeed and also because, I'm sure, a lot of OW players have given up doing the meta at all. I suspect this happened when the turtle egg got an alternative way of acquiring it.

[Gehenna.3625]

22 hours ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

 

I would be able to hear the screeching of a toxic casual from across the continent, breaking sound barrier if anet locked the meta behind relatively difficult tutorial in Seitung. Remember the tiny jumping puzzle in Seitung and the related threads? 

There is no closing the gap anymore. Dunno why they decided to put "harder" metas into open world again. It always backfires.

Yeah this is an example of what I mean. I mean, I'm not picking sides here but if a game for 10 years has catered to one big group of players and then suddenly they want them to change their ways, well, it's kind of a lost cause.

I'm all for also giving content to smaller groups of players, but when they start mixing both groups together and it doesn't work, then perhaps they should rethink that strategy. It would've been a lot better if they'd said from the start "hey this meta is for the more skilled players" and not put the turtle egg behind it. Personally, I think that these threads wouldn't have persisted so much because it was clear who the content was for.

[Gorem.8104]

20 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

As i said in other threads failed 5 out of 6 attempts thats enough for this casual.. i gave up doing plus op the rewards are terrible.. even the turtle is pretty useless. I got it my first attempt luckily.. but never beat it again.

Haven't bothered with EoD in a few days, it was designed all wrong meta wise. Failure with a capital F, Kaineng is just as bad not enough waypoints imo.

More of a dead EoD.. the Tyria maps are full. in my oceanic time zones.. EoD is dead. Pof is somewhat plenty HoT less so (i think people gave up on hot because the Hero points can't be soloed and not enough help).

I still would love a true explanation from Anet as to why they seem to hold back so hard on rewards and useful stuff from EoD (playing onto the fact as to why it was almost dead on arrival). In HoT we got fun masteries per zone and gliding and ley line converter (A single item that could be the sole reason so many re-visit the maps) and great rewards from good meta's and a raid based mastery track that unlocks should you want to raid and ect. ect. (not to mention gen 2 leggies which are honestly the games best). In PoF Mounts, and other stuff too but Mounts were just done so insanely well they kinda outshine everything else. Nothing really cool to bring ya back to PoF zones however unless you bounty train. 

And then you have EoD. The "Pay to add fishing to your game" expac. Really, if at launch they truly wanted this to be the "raid" expac, they should have marketed it as such, then made the content truly hard all over, not just DE but made the entire place hardcore. Hey, at least the hardcore crowd could get their expac and we'd have known in advance, cooling peoples jets. Instead of it all being super un-rewarding and easy, till a single end meta that is so entirely different from the rest of the entire game that even if you win is hardly rewarding. 

[yoni.7015]

6 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

I still would love a true explanation from Anet as to why they seem to hold back so hard on rewards and useful stuff from EoD (playing onto the fact as to why it was almost dead on arrival). In HoT we got fun masteries per zone and gliding and ley line converter (A single item that could be the sole reason so many re-visit the maps) and great rewards from good meta's and a raid based mastery track that unlocks should you want to raid and ect. ect. (not to mention gen 2 leggies which are honestly the games best). In PoF Mounts, and other stuff too but Mounts were just done so insanely well they kinda outshine everything else. Nothing really cool to bring ya back to PoF zones however unless you bounty train. 

And then you have EoD. The "Pay to add fishing to your game" expac. Really, if at launch they truly wanted this to be the "raid" expac, they should have marketed it as such, then made the content truly hard all over, not just DE but made the entire place hardcore. Hey, at least the hardcore crowd could get their expac and we'd have known in advance, cooling peoples jets. Instead of it all being super un-rewarding and easy, till a single end meta that is so entirely different from the rest of the entire game that even if you win is hardly rewarding. 

Didn’t they buff the rewards in HoT after a while? I kind of remember that the metas weren’t that rewarding at the beginning. 
They have to do the same in EoD metas. You get 2 gold a day from Tequatl, why not from the DE meta?

One summoning stone and ambergris every day is nice but the metas should be more rewarding. I guess we all can agree on that. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Gorem.8104]

9 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Yeah this is an example of what I mean. I mean, I'm not picking sides here but if a game for 10 years has catered to one big group of players and then suddenly they want them to change their ways, well, it's kind of a lost cause.

I'm all for also giving content to smaller groups of players, but when they start mixing both groups together and it doesn't work, then perhaps they should rethink that strategy. It would've been a lot better if they'd said from the start "hey this meta is for the more skilled players" and not put the turtle egg behind it. Personally, I think that these threads wouldn't have persisted so much because it was clear who the content was for.

Which is what players were stating from launch essentially, if they had done that, everything would be different. I bet less people would have refunded if it said up front that the meta was for the skilled, and the Turtle was just unlocked through the story finale (or by doing the one event with them in DE). 

I'm a dirty Turtle buyer from the vendor, though I've not got around to doing the strike mission yet to even unlock the thing. since they first made it available to buy... I've not done a strike mission in the game ever.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Gorem.8104 said:

I'm a dirty Turtle buyer from the vendor, though I've not got around to doing the strike mission yet to even unlock the thing. since they first made it available to buy... I've not done a strike mission in the game ever.

Fun fact: i have done that strile several times already. Still didn't get the credit, because i'm still stuck on early feeding part of the collection (i can't be bothered to fish).

[Gehenna.3625]

9 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

I'm a dirty Turtle buyer from the vendor, though I've not got around to doing the strike mission yet to even unlock the thing. since they first made it available to buy... I've not done a strike mission in the game ever.

I tried the meta maybe twice before the vendor option came out. I did go back to the meta at some point, failed a few times made it a couple of times and then decided it wasn't worth my time. 

I also never tried a single Strike until the turtle collection. I just looked in the LFG for a group that was marked as a training run for newbies and I participated. We failed a few times and then a few days later, I tried with another such group and we made it after a couple of attempts. Then I did the other two "easy" strikes which went well the first time. Then I did a Strike run of the 4 strikes in Cantha, did the first 3 the first time around and after 3 tries also completed the 4th one.

So I can do them, but I haven't gone back there since. Why not? Because it simply isn't interesting to me. I will go back occasionally because of the currency that I use to get the weekly A.S.S. 's, but so far I still have enough left for another 3 weeks. It's worth it to me to do something every so often that's mildly boring to get the 9 gold per week.

So that's my experience with Strikes. I haven't done the IBS ones, don't think I ever will but I did do all of the EoD strikes and for me it was ok but I didn't get excited over it to the point I wanted to do it again. Having been a pretty hardcore raider in another game, I guess it doesn't compare to the style of encounters there and I prefer it there. But then that's ok, I chose to play this game to get away from all that.

I suppose that what I don't like about the DE map is that you're done there very quickly if you're not doing the Meta and don't collect the gen3 legendary weapons.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Gehenna.3625

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Fun fact: i have done that strile several times already. Still didn't get the credit, because i'm still stuck on early feeding part of the collection (i can't be bothered to fish).

I ended up buying some of the fish needed for the turtle, because I couldn't be bothered with fishing either.

[Dante.1508]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I ended up buying some of the fish needed for the turtle, because I couldn't be bothered with fishing either.

I got 99% of my fish from Keys + Chests mostly by fluke but eh.

[Styopa.2538]

On 6/5/2022 at 6:19 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

That's because in this event dps is the king, so you really need good boon coverage. And with boons nowadays being reduced (again) to 5-man, you need 5-man squads each with proper boon setup (alac, quick, might, fury).

 

Maybe I'm just a "bad' but I'll be honest: if I'm providing boons, I have no effing idea where my sub is in DE meta, for example.  They could be anywhere on the platform because there's nothing that tells me where they are (nor, even if there was, do I expect I could see it in the fireworks show).  I end up just doing my thing, popping my serial quickness (frex) on schedule, and wondering how much doing that is hurting my dps to potentially no benefit.

And EDIT: fifth? sixth? failed PUG of DE meta SoupWonton fight.  Never succeeded yet once, and not sure why I keep bothering to try since the rewards if you don't succeed mean purely wasted time that I could have spent doing some other more reliably successful meta.

😐

Edited June 6, 2022 by Styopa.2538

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Styopa.2538 said:

 

Maybe I'm just a "bad' but I'll be honest: if I'm providing boons, I have no effing idea where my sub is in DE meta, for example.  They could be anywhere on the platform because there's nothing that tells me where they are (nor, even if there was, do I expect I could see it in the fireworks show).  I end up just doing my thing, popping my serial quickness (frex) on schedule, and wondering how much doing that is hurting my dps to potentially no benefit.

Well, it is trying to extrapolate raid mechanics to a much bigger player group and hoping they will work the same.

[jaif.3518]

People need to accept that EoD was largely about structured content and not geared towards casual, living world content.  

 

IMO, this is indicative of the long term direction of the game.  This is a basic design decision which will not change with 20 pages of back and forth.  We either accept and adapt, or move on.