Would you be ok with an in-game DPS-meter if it only showed your own numbers?

[Sobx.1758]

16 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

I didn't want to get back into this debate because another forumers split apart sentences by sentences in a paragraph of my replies so the meaning is totally out-of-context. But will try to address what you had quoted me.

This link should address it: Policy: Third-Party Programs Not forbidden if they do not violate the terms of agreements.

Both you and the other guy are alluding to something that I do not mean. My data, not ownership but as it pertains to what I do. In the smilar vein as when you say "your legendary greatsword, Exordium". Yes, it is yours within the game context. Yes, Anet owns the game. I'm not disputing that and ultimately Anet, owns that Exordium you're holding.

I truly do not understand why it is so difficult to grasp that.

Nothing I responded to was out of context, so stop pretending it was. You keep writing that it's the player's data because it came from the player's actions. But that's just wrong. Stop being dishonest about it now as if I somehow changed what you were saying, because I didn't.

It really doesn't matter that it's something that results as part of the actions you've taken. It has 0 to do with anything in this thread or privacy matters some people try to bring up here. The question is: if you understand it's game's/anet's data and what you're saying is irrelevant to anything here then why do you keep bringing it up as if you still somehow believe it's relevant.

 

One of the examples of what you keep saying:

On 6/7/2022 at 9:23 PM, Silent.6137 said:

It's the game's data but it is also yours. It came from your actions. There are players who would rather strangers cannot just see how they perform or what they do. Within the game, the data is all yours. It belongs to you.

So no, you didn't seem to understand that the data isn't really yours. Or maybe you just worded it this way, but didn't mean to. Still, saying that "the data is all yours. It belongs to you" seems pretty hard to misinterpret. The only reason I'm cutting quotes like I do is so it's easier to see what I'm specifically responding to, not to do what you think I did.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, Borked.6824 said:

I would argue the value of comparing dps is irrelevant, making vaccum dps meters the opposite of useless, at the benefit of being less socially harmful.  Relatively, the only factor for determing overall dps is personal dps anyway.  If you're not killing bosses fast enough, just assume you're part of the problem, check your Anet sanctioned and designed meters, and get better.  When you're not progressing anymore beyond fractions of a percent, you know you're not the problem.

And then you end up "not being the problem" in a highly optimized rotation for your great build you can't think how to improve anymore. Doing 6k at best.

Hint: many players think they're doing great. Having a personal dps they cannot compare to others would just make them think the 4k damage they're doing is what is great.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[Raskol.3014]

No.

[Westenev.5289]

We already have the option to show outgoing damage, although unless you're a literal robot or are waxing off to your bladesworn 130k dragon trigger crit, damage per hit is just meaningless chat spam. I think updating "outgoing damage" to covert the messages to damage per second instead of damage per strike/tick (kinda like the raid training golems) could be neat.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Westenev.5289

[Mourningstar.7309]

I would be okay with this only if Arc was still usable.  This game does a poor job of showing how well people perform and people tend to think they're better than they actually are.  Joined a Harvest Temple run yesterday with a "DPS" soulbeast who did less damage than the heal scourge.  The thing is, if the run succeeds, the only feedback that player has received is that they did well when if they weren't there at all there would have hardly been a difference.  I know people get worried about being excluded from groups if DPS meters become a thing, but ask yourself - do you even know what you're doing to contribute?  If your answer is something about some non-meta build that is really good at removing condis or something along those lines, I hate to say that isn't as helpful as you think it is.  DPS matters.

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

I don't trust Anet to do a good job (and it would take forever to get done).   That's just using Loadouts (cruddy template wanna-be) and Alliances as historical samples. 

[Jimbru.6014]

18 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Then a DPS meter isn't needed at all. Just look at the in game clock when you start. Anything that completes an encounter is technically fast enough so even that much isn't really necessary.

This. The standard of victory should be "group alive, boss dead". Everything else should be superfluous. If there is a timer on the encounter, then obviously DPS is more important, but at the same time, I think the meta DPS counters often miss the forest for the trees in that regard. They get so focused on perfection that they forget that this GAME is supposed to be...y'know...fun?

Edited June 9, 2022 by Jimbru.6014

[kharmin.7683]

1 minute ago, Jimbru.6014 said:

This. The standard of victory should be "group alive, boss dead". Everything else should be superfluous. If there is a timer on the encounter, then obviously DPS is more important, but at the same time, I think the meta DPS counters often miss the forest for the trees in that regard. They get so focused on perfection that they forget that this GAME is supposed to be...y'know...fun?

Fun is subjective.  There are those players who find such activities fun with that level of focus.  /shrug

[Tukaram.8256]

19 hours ago, Jimbru.6014 said:

While having our own DPS meter instead of having to rely on an addon would be nice, I question if adding another load to an already spotty interface is a good idea. Either way, I've never been a fan of players being able to see other players' data, so if ArenaNet can give us something functional and private and make ArcDPS and other intruders go away, that'd be great.

I agree completely! 😎

(bold added by me)

[Khisanth.2948]

25 minutes ago, Jimbru.6014 said:

This. The standard of victory should be "group alive, boss dead". Everything else should be superfluous. If there is a timer on the encounter, then obviously DPS is more important, but at the same time, I think the meta DPS counters often miss the forest for the trees in that regard. They get so focused on perfection that they forget that this GAME is supposed to be...y'know...fun?

A meter is needed in the timed situation when the group's DPS is insufficient AND you need to identify the cause. This is also when only seeing your own DPS becomes useless. Well not entirely useless but it requires the group to report each their DPS/boons/etc. to each other then someone has to assemble all that together instead of having it already available.

The alternative of course is how it worked before. Blame whoever you think is a convenient scapegoat.

[Silent.6137]

24 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

The alternative of course is how it worked before. Blame whoever you think is a convenient scapegoat.

It's the Thief's and Ranger's fault, of course.

[Sobx.1758]

19 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

We look at ArcDPS log. "Let's look at Player A's data. Next, let's look at Player B's data". We are not implying ownership, but implying which player's dataset it is.

Ah, I think I get what you're talking about now. So the complaint is the equivalent of joining the group and then not wanting other players to look at your character (and actions it performs). I'm not sure if that changes a lot about what was said above tbh. Except that now you're not talking about it being a "legal issue" but just... trying to tell others what they can look at while playing a multiplayer game.

 

But, no, really -I went back to see if I actually put any words in your mouth and you were talking about it being some legal case and privacy matter, which this comparison makes absolutely clear:

On 6/7/2022 at 9:23 PM, Silent.6137 said:

An analogy will be Anet is the owner of a building. You rented an apartment from it. That apartment is your home. Until you terminate the rental agreement or is evicted, no one else can enter without your permission. That is the very essence of privacy, and the rights to it.

Maybe later you've just decided to go back on it and claim that you were misquoted somehow to put the blame on the people that responded exactly to what you wrote, but what you were talking about in your previous posts doesn't leave much room for a different interpretation.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Khisanth.2948]

40 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

It's the Thief's and Ranger's fault, of course.

The traditional choice as necro. 🙂

[Silent.6137]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Maybe later you've just decided to go back on it and claim that you were misquoted somehow to put the blame on the people that responded exactly to what you wrote, but what you were talking about in your previous posts doesn't leave much room for a different interpretation.

Follow the thread:

Dayra.7405: No, I don't know what they do, whatever I write in the title. I want to switch off that my data go to someone or anet should black-list and ban 3rd party tools that collect & aggregate them. (Last edited: Edited Tuesday at 12:03 PM by Dayra.7405)

Sobx.1758: It's not your data, it's game's data. Again, it has nothing to do with your privacy or even anything "being yours" in the first place, so stop pretending it does. (Last edited: Edited Tuesday at 11:32 AM by Sobx.1758)

Silent.6137: It's the game's data but it is also yours. It came from your actions. There are players who would rather strangers cannot just see how they perform or what they do. Within the game, the data is all yours. It belongs to you.

An analogy will be Anet is the owner of a building. You rented an apartment from it. That apartment is your home. Until you terminate the rental agreement or is evicted, no one else can enter without your permission. That is the very essence of privacy, and the rights to it. (Last edited: Edited Tuesday at 01:25 PM by Silent.6137)

 

But you just love to use the word "pretend" when you misunderstood what the person is trying to say. And like the quote from you above, implying others are lying or being dishonest. Also, splitting up sentences in a paragraph so they are out-of-context. 

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

Yes !

And let the community have an election every 3 months (Ellen Kiel vs  Evon Gnashblade) , for if that addon that will exist passively in the Aerodrome + Raids , can be used in other areas too !

edit :(can you imagine if we could vote for  normal Strikes only ,with doing the contnent and get rewarded with  by "tickets" and something happens to Strikes+ forums (Soo Won debate) and the minority won and the dps addon was installed  ,  later they would demand more rewards , for  the majority to come back ?:P ...  wait isn't this loop that happens time after time ?:...)

 

(In hush hush , people can use all previous addons , till the point they accidentally link the dps log in the chats .

Or never get caught , if they use it for personal use  - 2 grams)

Edited June 9, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Sobx.1758]

22 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Follow the thread:

Dayra.7405: No, I don't know what they do, whatever I write in the title. I want to switch off that my data go to someone or anet should black-list and ban 3rd party tools that collect & aggregate them. (Last edited: Edited Tuesday at 12:03 PM by Dayra.7405)

Sobx.1758: It's not your data, it's game's data. Again, it has nothing to do with your privacy or even anything "being yours" in the first place, so stop pretending it does. (Last edited: Edited Tuesday at 11:32 AM by Sobx.1758)

Silent.6137: It's the game's data but it is also yours. It came from your actions. There are players who would rather strangers cannot just see how they perform or what they do. Within the game, the data is all yours. It belongs to you.

An analogy will be Anet is the owner of a building. You rented an apartment from it. That apartment is your home. Until you terminate the rental agreement or is evicted, no one else can enter without your permission. That is the very essence of privacy, and the rights to it. (Last edited: Edited Tuesday at 01:25 PM by Silent.6137)

No worries, I am following the thread and still don't see how that changes anything about you trying to make it into a legal case with this comparison. In case of signing a rental of apartment, you have certain rights to it. In case of this thread -and this whole comment chain- you don't have some special rights to the data just because it was connected to you pressing the keys which resulted in "your" character taking an action ingame. This is why this is a bad comparison. This is why it didn't make sense in what you APPARENTLY now claim you were talking about. You have no rights related to your characters actions in the game, you have nothing to do or claim in terms of someone seeing or reading the game's data -as long as anet allows it- and that data "comming from your character" changes aboslutely nothing about it. Which part of it do you still not understand?

Quote

But you just love to use the word "pretend" when you misunderstood what the person is trying to say. 

That's... exactly what you've did though. You've came up with a weird comparison and then tried claiming that I somehow misrepresented what you've said, when I didn't. And nothing about your comparison that I've quoted above was taken out of context or cut out into peaces that would somehow change its meaning.

 

 

And btw if you're quoting that initial Dayra's edited post, then maybe check what it was saying before the edit, which is still fully quoted in the post directly under it:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/115995-would-you-be-ok-with-an-in-game-dps-meter-if-it-only-showed-your-own-numbers/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-1677443

Maybe then you'll understand what I was responding to, which was something else before that edit taking place half an hour after I already responded. You literally included the timestamp of the edit...

Edited June 9, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Obtena.7952]

It's not a question of if it's needed ... so that's a weird argument to not include it. 

It's hard to think that anyone who objects to accessing their personal data has a valid reason to do so. I think there are better things for Anet to do, but I wouldn't object to getting an ingame DPS meter that only I can see. If people don't want to know their DPS, they can ignore it ... or they can get the option to shut it off. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Silent.6137]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

That's... exactly what you've did though. You've came up with a weird comparison and then tried claiming that I somehow misrepresented what you've said, when I didn't.

Not going to respond to the rest since it's just back and forth.

Maybe it's weird for you because you didn't understand what the person is trying to say in the first place. And then to accuse the person of doing something dishonest.

Case in point:

Silent.6137: Edited Tuesday at 03:38 PM by Silent.6137

Sobx.1758: Posted Tuesday at 03:37 PM (edited); Edited Tuesday at 03:40 PM by Sobx.1758

Silent.6137: Posted Tuesday at 03:40 PM > I edited before your reply

...

Silent.6137: EDIT:  > I intentionally added that just in case there were cross-postings in replies.

 

Aside from grammar, spellings, etc., I edit if what I'm saying may be confusing, and/or to clarify certain things. But of course, your response to any of that is that the other person is trying to be dishonest. Do check the time-stamps. It really helps.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Silent.6137 said:

Maybe it's weird for you because you didn't understand what the person is trying to say in the first place.

See... you keep claiming I don't understand it, but you're the one dodging your direct comparisons/mentions about it being some kind of privacy issue (or anything near to being one). It just isn't. You have no right in deciding what people see in the game, whether it comes from your character's actions or not.

Basically what you've dodged from the post above:

(...)You have no rights related to your characters actions in the game, you have nothing to do or claim in terms of someone seeing or reading the game's data -as long as anet allows it- and that data "comming from your character" changes aboslutely nothing about it. Which part of it do you still not understand?

And again:

Quote

And btw if you're quoting that initial Dayra's edited post, then maybe check what it was saying before the edit, which is still fully quoted in the post directly under it:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/115995-would-you-be-ok-with-an-in-game-dps-meter-if-it-only-showed-your-own-numbers/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-1677443

Maybe then you'll understand what I was responding to, which was something else before that edit taking place half an hour after I already responded. You literally included the timestamp of the edit...

I don't know what point you're trying to make with these edit timestamps now (so now there's actually something I don't understand), since I wasn't even talking about your post here, but instead about the dayra's post that you've quoted in your previous post. What I said there has literally 0 to do with your edits.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Sobx.1758
anyone -> anything

[Silent.6137]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

See... you keep claiming I don't understand it, but you're the one dodging your direct comparisons/mentions about it being some kind of privacy issue (or anyone near to being one). It just isn't. You have no right in deciding what people see in the game, whether it comes from your character's actions or not.

Basically what you've dodged from the post above:

(...)You have no rights related to your characters actions in the game, you have nothing to do or claim in terms of someone seeing or reading the game's data -as long as anet allows it- and that data "comming from your character" changes aboslutely nothing about it. Which part of it do you still not understand?

That's because you don't understand. Plain and simple.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

10 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

. You have no rights related to your characters actions in the game, you have nothing to do or claim in terms of someone seeing or reading the game's data -as long as anet allows it- and that data "comming from your character" changes aboslutely nothing about it. Which part of it do you still not understand?

 

Lets create in in-house dps addon , so people can opt if they want to share their data (damage done) to other players

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

That's because you don't understand. Plain and simple.

But.. I do. Isn't it funny how you're avoiding what I say "because it's just back and forth", but all you do instead is repeating "because you don't understand"? I mean, what you said in your posts is clear and leaves little to misinterpret, no matter how many times you'l run from it. If you're not interested in responding, then at least stop pretending I'm the one that misinterprets your posts here 😄

 

Anyways you have no rights to decide what another player looks at ingame, you're free to not want people look at what your character does, but it doesn't really mean anything when you're deciding to play an mmorpg game.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[kharmin.7683]

26 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

It's not a question of if it's needed ... so that's a weird argument to not include it. 

It's hard to think that anyone who objects to accessing their personal data has a valid reason to do so. I think there are better things for Anet to do, but I wouldn't object to getting an ingame DPS meter that only I can see. If people don't want to know their DPS, they can ignore it ... or they can get the option to shut it off. 

Wouldn't having this data available be used as a gate-keeper to content, similar to asking people to show kill proof and such?  Do we need yet another factor in that regard?

[Obtena.7952]

14 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Wouldn't having this data available be used as a gate-keeper to content, similar to asking people to show kill proof and such?  Do we need yet another factor in that regard?

Could be, but since people are already using much less relevant metrics to already gate-keep content, I see little reason to prevent adding another. 

Again, we don't need this, but I wouldn't be against it. 

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

Yes. If that means ArcDPS is banend. Go for it.