Would you be ok with an in-game DPS-meter if it only showed your own numbers?

[kharmin.7683]

4 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

I use ArcDPS and yes, it's good. But I have to intentionally search, download and install it. Most players will have absolutely no idea it even exist even if they're interested in something like it.

 

 

I believe if players are interested in such a meter, they will know how to find one.

[Ashen.2907]

I wouldnt mind it, but I have guildies that would be sad to see arc go away. 

[Silent.6137]

10 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

I believe if players are interested in such a meter, they will know how to find one.

Many do not even know Wiki exist eventhough they're very interested in many of the info Wiki has to offer. 3rd party programs are very niche and only a very small segment of the player-base are aware of and use them.

Search, download, install, download again and again after any major updates, or not having access to it while it's being worked on...and then the question of legality (that many are afraid to use for fear of being banned...yes, heard it being asked many times) and safety (will it hack into my account?).

If it's part of the client, then there's no more worries about any of those.

Why exactly are you so against it? Especially if it will simplify the procedures. Resources? For something as minor as this?

[Khisanth.2948]

34 minutes ago, Solnos.8045 said:

For example take a druid staff and auto attack, the damage number is going to be huge even tho the dps is negligible.

That is a different problem caused by the game displaying cumulative damage for some skills

[mindcircus.1506]

The current issues with ARC are:
1.It is needlessly complex to properly configure
2.It requires the player to go outside the game to install
3.It requires a plugin for a plugin to effectively measure boon uptime
4.It causes me to CTD under Dx11 (no issues with Dx9)
5. It does not effectively measure group healing numbers
6. It requires updating constantly

So yes... a proper ingame solution would absolutely be welcomed in my world.

But this idea that it has to be limited to "own stats" just to sell it to people?
This thinking that players cannot properly and responsibly handle the data that live combat data provides with some false flag boogeyman of "toxic elitism"?
Hard pass.
People have been gatekeeping groups since release based on inaccurate metrics such as gear and AP. The existence of ARC has objectively reduced the amount of false information in this community.
Actual data is always preferred to rhetoric and anecdotes.

Alternatively I would like to see a "post encounter summary" at the end of PvE encounters (raids, Strikes, fractal bosses, dungeon bosses, large Open World Events) very similar to the end of Match summary in sPvP that gave details like Damage Dealt, Boons provided and uptime, rezzes, Defiance Bar contribution ect....

[Gehenna.3625]

1 hour ago, Silent.6137 said:

Will having it as part of the client be bad?

That depends on various factors that only Anet will be able to ascertain.

The better question is: will having it as part of the client be necessary?

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

2 hours ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

Alternatively I would like to see a "post encounter summary" at the end of PvE encounters (raids, Strikes, fractal bosses, dungeon bosses, large Open World Events) very similar to the end of Match summary in sPvP that gave details like Damage Dealt, Boons provided and uptime, rezzes, Defiance Bar contribution ect....

This one is a great idea. Except for the easy content and the Open World. 

EDIT: I do not want this conflict to heat up more and more. This pointless cycle of accusations did not lead us anywhere. I could engage in the stuff they wrote above that paragraph. But this leads nowhere. 

The solution to end this conflict is peace, not destruction. We have maintained some kind of balance for the past 10 years by accepting co-existence. The casuals on the one side and the 'others' on the opposite side. It has never been easy, but we managed to have fun as long as we stayed away from each others.

The idea of mixing content and forcing both sides against each others was not very clever. I do not know what ANet had in mind with this, but I doubt they are happy with the result right now. The conflict will not end in one side winning and the other losing. 

The suggestion I quoted does not meet my understanding of playing the game as you like. But it is not as extreme as the usual stuff. A post-encoutner-summary could list sum-paramenters, instead of a detailed graph/table when which player pressed which button. Again, with the limitation of hard content. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by HnRkLnXqZ.1870

[kharmin.7683]

46 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Many do not even know Wiki exist eventhough they're very interested in many of the info Wiki has to offer. 3rd party programs are very niche and only a very small segment of the player-base are aware of and use them.

Search, download, install, download again and again after any major updates, or not having access to it while it's being worked on...and then the question of legality (that many are afraid to use for fear of being banned...yes, heard it being asked many times) and safety (will it hack into my account?).

If it's part of the client, then there's no more worries about any of those.

Why exactly are you so against it? Especially if it will simplify the procedures. Resources? For something as minor as this?

Many may not know, but (IN MY OPINION) players who are so interested and/or invested in min/max character builds will look to the internet and invariably find mention of ARC. 

Anet has been green-lit ARC, so there's no worry of any ban.

I'm not against it, per se; rather, I believe that it would take resources away from things that the devs could be working on for the benefit of a much larger segment of the player population than this proposal.  As for it being something minor, we don't know if that's truly the case or not.  With the purported spaghetti code that we've heard about so often, this proposal may take a lot more effort which, again, I would prefer be spent elsewhere.

[Hotride.2187]

7 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

No. Anet would monetize this and make it worse. Fight me.

I would buy the option to see my dps without  an extra dll.

[TheLadyOfTheRings.9148]

Yes I would like that, but at the same time I feel like there wouldn't be room for improvement if it only showed my DPS and nobody else's. If I can't compare my DPS to others' then I don't know how "good" or "bad" I'm doing.  

[Sigmoid.7082]

18 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

I would buy the option to see my dps without  an extra dll.

People said this about build templates and look how that turned out 

[RedTheCrazy.1028]

I disagree, I think dps meter as toxic as it is its necessary for people like me who dont have a guild nor a static nor a real schedule to filter out players who are not performing very well after a few wipes. I understand arcdps is often used to mock people, but from my PoV as a casual pug enjoyer I absolutely NEED to see how each player in my party is performing and eventually replace them if we start wiping too much to some CC/dps check or bad boon duration. Get in my pants guys, we pug-only gamers exist and we need it :I

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

The current issues with ARC are:
1.It is needlessly complex to properly configure
2.It requires the player to go outside the game to install
3.It requires a plugin for a plugin to effectively measure boon uptime
4.It causes me to CTD under Dx11 (no issues with Dx9)
5. It does not effectively measure group healing numbers
6. It requires updating constantly

So yes... a proper ingame solution would absolutely be welcomed in my world.

But this idea that it has to be limited to "own stats" just to sell it to people?
This thinking that players cannot properly and responsibly handle the data that live combat data provides with some false flag boogeyman of "toxic elitism"?
Hard pass.
People have been gatekeeping groups since release based on inaccurate metrics such as gear and AP. The existence of ARC has objectively reduced the amount of false information in this community.
Actual data is always preferred to rhetoric and anecdotes.

Alternatively I would like to see a "post encounter summary" at the end of PvE encounters (raids, Strikes, fractal bosses, dungeon bosses, large Open World Events) very similar to the end of Match summary in sPvP that gave details like Damage Dealt, Boons provided and uptime, rezzes, Defiance Bar contribution ect....

Indeed. 

 

I remember a time when getting into a group for instanced content as a ranger was very difficult outside of guild parties.

[Ashen.2907]

12 minutes ago, Sigmoid.7082 said:

People said this about build templates and look how that turned out 

It turned out fine for many, arguably most, people. I do understand the negative sentiment for those who were using the third party alternative though.

[Omega.6801]

3 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

No because DPS numbers in a vacuum are nearly useless and potentially harmful.

Without facts people just make stuff up. This was already proven back before arc existed. Sticking your head in the sand will not make those types of people go away.

Only seeing your own numbers will give misleading ideas. "Wow this build is awesome! It does 2000 DPS, the previous one only did 1000 ...". Relatively speaking sure but in the full spectrum it is not. Other than timed content a 2000 DPS build still "works" it just ends up taking a lot more effort. A 1 million HP enemy with 9m limit requires less than 2000 DPS.

While this is true, only in context/comparison can players truly understand how they're doing. My question is about a meter that only shows you you're numbers so you can be the player who goes from "Wow! This build does 2k dps, last one only did 1k." Maybe that player will be interested in going beyond 2k.
A meter that would let you see other players numbers would never fly with the playerbase and you know that. To debate this, you might want to open a new thread, because this thread poses a different question.

[Omega.6801]

51 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Many may not know, but (IN MY OPINION) players who are so interested and/or invested in min/max character builds will look to the internet and invariably find mention of ARC. 

Anet has been green-lit ARC, so there's no worry of any ban.

I'm not against it, per se; rather, I believe that it would take resources away from things that the devs could be working on for the benefit of a much larger segment of the player population than this proposal.  As for it being something minor, we don't know if that's truly the case or not.  With the purported spaghetti code that we've heard about so often, this proposal may take a lot more effort which, again, I would prefer be spent elsewhere.

I know about ARC and I'd say most of the more or less invested players do. I personally just don't like 3rd party programs in general so an in-game opition would be ighly appreciated. And as I said in the last response, we both know a version of this, that lets me see other peoples numbers, would never fly with the comunity. So I asked about a solely personal dps-meter.

[Silent.6137]

1 hour ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

But this idea that it has to be limited to "own stats" just to sell it to people?
This thinking that players cannot properly and responsibly handle the data that live combat data provides with some false flag boogeyman of "toxic elitism"?
Hard pass.
 

Maybe an option for players to prevent others from seeing their data for those who are so inclined. But then, it'll open up another can of worms where LFG will read like this: "Blah, Blah, Blah...DPS meter enabled or kick"

48 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Anet has been green-lit ARC, so there's no worry of any ban.

Not true. 3rd party programs are accepted by Anet if they conform to its policy but none of them are white-listed. Even if It had been mentioned by an Anet staff, there is no such endorsements whatsoever.

Policy: Third-Party Programs

[mindcircus.1506]

4 minutes ago, lokh.2695 said:

And as I said in the last response, we both know a version of this, that lets me see other peoples numbers, would never fly with the comunity.

How do we know this?

"The community" is a varied group of players with a breadth of goals and desires.
The community isn't just the squeaky wheel on the forums.

[mindcircus.1506]

7 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Maybe an option for players to prevent others from seeing their data for those who are so inclined. But then, it'll open up another can of worms where LFG will read like this: "Blah, Blah, Blah...DPS meter enabled or kick"

Honest question: What actual benefit would this provide?

[Dayra.7405]

12 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Maybe an option for players to prevent others from seeing their data for those who are so inclined. But then, it'll open up another can of worms where LFG will read like this: "Blah, Blah, Blah...DPS meter enabled or kick"

That would be cool, clearly marked partyies where I don't want to join. Definitely an improvement over today, where I am evaluated by any "optimizer" as soon as I join any party.

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, Dayra.7405 said:

That would be cool, clearly marked partyies where I don't want to join. Definitely an improvement over today, where I am evaluated by any "optimizer" as soon as I join any party.

You can always create "everyone welcome" squad -or join one- and in this one simple step you already have what you're saying you want. All what you've said would do is just... word it differently in the description.

[Dayra.7405]

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

You can always create "everyone welcome" squad

And how does this hinder anyone to spy my behaviour? The option to disbale any spy software is of course the cool thing

Edited June 6, 2022 by Dayra.7405

[Zaraki.5784]

Yes I would but it must not show others.

[mindcircus.1506]

6 minutes ago, Dayra.7405 said:

Definitely an improvement over today, where I am evaluated by any "optimizer" as soon as I join any party.

This does not happen.
No one cares about your performance until you are proven to fall short of expectations. They arent waiting to inspect you the moment you join a party.
No one has the ability to do so.

[Sobx.1758]

5 minutes ago, Dayra.7405 said:

And how does this hinder anyone to spy my behaviour? The option to disbale any spy software is of course the cool thing

Who and why would want to "spy on your behavior"? And how the proposal from above would stop someone from just... not including "your desired phase from the post above" in their squad description? On the one hand you're apparently completely trusting that the players will do what you want them to do so you can label them accordingly, but on the other... you're scared that currently the same players won't join groups accordingly and for some reason try to spy on you?

Edited June 6, 2022 by Sobx.1758