Danikat.8537 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said: No, I did mean what I said. There are hundreds or even thousands of MMOs out there and I know this. I had no business making such a blanket statement. I get why you think that I'm moving the goal post, but all I can say is that I made an error and am trying to be clear about what I intend. What I want to say is that even though there are MMOs with DPS meters out there, I suspect that they are small, competitive MMOs with lesser graphics and higher toxicity than more popular MMOs. I could imagine some Asian games of note to have this but I don't know. I've played around 20 MMOs and I don't remember any of them having DPS meters. Games like SWTOR, Aion Online, ESO, Wildstar, Perfect World, Secret World etc. GW2 is a AAA MMO, and as such they would have to appeal to a wider crowd to make it worth the investment. It's also high on graphics and this means that there is a cost in performance for everything they add to the game in terms of the UI/GUI. I'm also aware of games like WoW, FF XIV, Elden Rings and New Worlds. From what I can tell these games don't have DPS meters installed within the game. A few reasons why not, that I can think of, is that they don't want to deter casual players, they don't want to put anything in the GUI that isn't necessary, and these games have good DPS meters already from outside the game. So why would they want to reinvent the wheel? I hope that clarifies things a bit. Again, I apologize for making such a blanket statement. Either you're taking your analogy really far or you're getting topics mixed up. This is the one about not making it clear the LW isn't included in the 'collection' version of the game which claims to include everything, not the one about DPS meters. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fractal.7039 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 They need to offer a full bundle for a cost on the site... then people couldn't complain after the fact 3 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southerncarl.2740 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) Welcome to the rot that is microtransactions in MMO's. Edited June 7, 2022 by Southerncarl.2740 1 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaret.1450 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 i have literaly never paid a cent for living world, i mean you can get gems for gold IN game, so just go to world boses and silverwastes, farm a bit of gold and youre good to go, think that lw1 still has 4 or so chapters left to come so you can farm in the meantime and youll probably have all lw2 unlocked by the time lw1 ends, then on heart of thorns there are more farming metas that give more gold than silverwastes so lw3 shouldnt be a problem, pof is the same and lw4 is a literal farming heaven, youll have to spend more time playing but.... its a game, and you still have fractals raids wvw and pvp where you can go freely, i mean i understand you dont like having to pay for lw but it isnt expensive and you can get it by playing without need for real money. its not that terrible and spending rral money or not is just about how fast you want those chapters 2 1 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Oh yeah, if Anet ever do sell a version of the game which includes the Living World they should probably mention in the description that it's available to buy later and can be bought with gold. Otherwise I can imagine we'll have the opposite problem of some people who bought the complete pack getting angry that they could have bought a cheaper version and farmed gold to get the LW for free. 4 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tukaram.8256 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said: Personally I think the best fix - for both Anet and players - would be to offer a 'complete' version of the game which includes all the Living World seasons released so far as well as all the expansions (and the base game obviously). Even if someone chooses not to buy it that should at least make them aware there will be more to buy if they want it, and people who want to get the entire game in 1 purchase would have the option. This makes perfect sense. Offer different packages, and be clear about what you are getting. Just makes good marketing sense, and better customer support. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 10 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said: Curious...what did you purchase for $75? Even the Collection (3 Expansions) is only $50. If you purchased any Ultimate Editions, you have Gems to spend on Living World Season(s). Looking at current pricing it apppears that it was the second level option for all of the expansions. The one with gems is $99. (US) (Though I could argue that the second tier option has never made sense but…..) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 1 hour ago, zaswer.5246 said: i have literaly never paid a cent for living world, i mean you can get gems for gold IN game, so just go to world boses and silverwastes, farm a bit of gold and youre good to go, think that lw1 still has 4 or so chapters left to come so you can farm in the meantime and youll probably have all lw2 unlocked by the time lw1 ends, then on heart of thorns there are more farming metas that give more gold than silverwastes so lw3 shouldnt be a problem, pof is the same and lw4 is a literal farming heaven, youll have to spend more time playing but.... its a game, and you still have fractals raids wvw and pvp where you can go freely, i mean i understand you dont like having to pay for lw but it isnt expensive and you can get it by playing without need for real money. its not that terrible and spending rral money or not is just about how fast you want those chapters Dont forget that you get 400 gems every 5k AP aswell 1 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blude.6812 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 14 hours ago, Tchuvan.4251 said: So glad they are listening to their community then. 🙄 Me too as well not caving in. If you want them, buy them. Or the very least use search and add comments (pro or con) to the other endless threads on the topic with same recycled discussions. 2 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fueki.4753 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 You pay your subscriptions in FF14 or WoW, which is not a thing in GW2. It's fine for Arenanet to monetize the content you get to play. You can also buy gems with ingame gold. On rare occasions, Arenanet also gives episodes out for free again. 1 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 The site page offers Living World Season 2 for purchase. Why are potential new players unaware that Living World is available? Why would they think it is included if it is offered for sale? 3 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent.6137 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 It can get confusing for a new player, thinking the Ultimate Collection means they get all the episodes to date. However, buying that edition with 4k Gems included will get you almost the entire Living World series - total = 4,160 gems. At current exchange rate, will just need to farm less than 50 gold to make up for the rest. Or about 1,220 gold to buy all the episodes. I can understand why Anet does not list them in their shop, since they are gem store purchases. But why not just add each Living World season as a purchase for an additional amount such as $10, and Seasons 1 to 4 for something like $30. This way, new players will be aware of exactly what they'll get. Problem is the perception that the game is too expensive with all the extra cost. Also, most people do not read fine prints so they will ignore the part about extra episodes. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogiepop Void.6473 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 This needs to be addressed. I have literally introduced people wot the game, they have had a good time, then they have learned about this and left over "deceptive advertising" and concerns they "can't trust the studio". 4 1 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shikigami.4013 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) Unlike the expansions, the living world episodes were never even for sale for real money. Paying for them with money by buying additional gems is for people who want gratification with no effort, like every other gemstore item. If you don't want that, it is perfectly fine to just play the game until you get the gold needed and convert to gems. That's what the system is for. And like others already stated, with the 4000 gems you get you can unlock almost everything at once anyway. Anyway, despite the living world episodes not even costing real money, it would be perfectly normal if they did. Giving ALL of them away for free for only logging in when they are released is not. The only other game I know of that is this generous is Minion Masters by Betadwarf. They are f2p like GW2, they have two basic upgrades unlocking stuff and then they have lots of DLC released over time, currently 13 in total, each for $14.99. But all of them were totally free when you claimed them on their release weekend. PS: I find all these compalints real stupid. By the same logic of complaining about episodes costing "money" everybody could have complained that you have to buy the griffon mount for "money". Because instead of playing the game to collect the 250 needed gold you could just as well buy gems and convert them to the needed gold. Seems like most people are unable to notice that these things are just the exact same thing - you CAN spend real money to get something in the game, but you don't have to. Edited June 7, 2022 by Shikigami.4013 1 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShroomOneUp.6913 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 4 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said: bla bla bla ESO etc the thing with ESO is that its not a continues story but each DLC is its own story. maybe SOME character you meet in other DLCs but that's merely because they exist in the world and i might make sense for them to be there for any reason thats mundane enough. gw2 doesn't do that (yet) so the entire story so far should be not behind more money or gold grind which inevitably spoilers story you are farming gold for 3 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShroomOneUp.6913 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 3 hours ago, zaswer.5246 said: i have literaly never paid a cent for living world, i mean you can get gems for gold IN game, so just go to world boses and silverwastes, farm a bit of gold and youre good to go, think that lw1 still has 4 or so chapters left to come so you can farm in the meantime and youll probably have all lw2 unlocked by the time lw1 ends, then on heart of thorns there are more farming metas that give more gold than silverwastes so lw3 shouldnt be a problem, pof is the same and lw4 is a literal farming heaven, youll have to spend more time playing but.... its a game, and you still have fractals raids wvw and pvp where you can go freely, i mean i understand you dont like having to pay for lw but it isnt expensive and you can get it by playing without need for real money. its not that terrible and spending rral money or not is just about how fast you want those chapters and yet you still argue with silverwastes which is living world season 2 which as spoilers story already and can you even enter it without LW2 or a booster? doubt it 1 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShroomOneUp.6913 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 11 minutes ago, Shikigami.4013 said: Unlike the expansions, the living world episodes were never even for sale for real money. Paying for them with money by buying additional gems is for people who want gratification with no effort, like every other gemstore item. If you don't want that, it is perfectly fine to just play the game until you get the gold needed and convert to gems. That's what the system is for. And like others already stated, with the 4000 gems you get you can unlock almost everything at once anyway. Anyway, despite the living world episodes not even costing real money, it would be perfectly normal if they did. Giving ALL of them away for free for only logging in when they are released is not. The only other game I know of that is this generous is Minion Masters by Betadwarf. They are f2p like GW2, they have two basic upgrades unlocking stuff and then they have lots of DLC released over time, currently 13 in total, each for $14.99. But all of them were totally free when you claimed them on their release weekend. the thing is you can argue with "you got the 4k gems" and "farm gold" all you want most new players will leave regardless. SPECIALLY if they find out that they gave out the LW for free at one point. if you can deliver something for free for the majority of the active player base, it has no intrinsic monetary value. It comes off as mere greedy money making. its not mount skins or other stuff that are constantly bought either. it important for the enjoyment of the story. have holes in the story and be spoiled by expansions that happen after those holes is NOT a good experience ever. and new players do not care you can farm gold for it. they only care that this is expected of them even by the existing player base and that puts them off. 1 2 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramex.1506 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) Like many have said, they should add another purchase for full Living world on their site and Steam when its out No doubt that some will complaint about "paying extra" but at least they KNEW before purchasing Edited June 8, 2022 by Ultramex.1506 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shikigami.4013 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) 21 hours ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said: the thing is you can argue with "you got the 4k gems" and "farm gold" all you want most new players will leave regardless. Nah, "arguing" only once is enough. And your claim that "most new players will leave" is simply made up. With the game doing great and gaining lots of new players, the actual numbers prove you not only wrong but horribly wrong. Some handful of disgruntled people venting on the forum doesn't mean new people leave the game in droves, much less "most" of them. PS: Seeing that you felt the need to make three posts in a row, I gladly leave the "all you want" part to you. Edited June 8, 2022 by Shikigami.4013 typo 2 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShroomOneUp.6913 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Shikigami.4013 said: Nah, "arguing" only once is enough. And your claim that "most new pleasers will leave" is simply made up. With the game doing great and gaining lots of new players, the actual numbers prove you not only wrong but horribly wrong. Some handful of disgruntled people venting on the forum doesn't mean new people leave the game in droves, much less "most" of them. PS: Seeing that you felt the need to make three posts in a row, I gladly leave the "all you want" part to you. we quiet literally have in this thread alone 2 accounts of this happening (more if you count each of of boogiepop's friends separately) its the very reason the threads like this exists. and where does it says its only a minority? do you have numbers on how many buy gw2 and stay active long enough directly send to you by bobby stein? and yes i made three posts. who cares? its three different points. one is about ESo story on its own, one is pointing out access to silver wastes and yours. show me the forum TOS that allows me to do only one post to address 3 different posts Edited June 7, 2022 by ShroomOneUp.6913 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaret.1450 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 1 hour ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said: and yet you still argue with silverwastes which is living world season 2 which as spoilers story already and can you even enter it without LW2 or a booster? doubt it silverwastes is a free to play map that you can enter without seing the story nor knowing anything, also spoilers? wich spoiler that theres a dragon made of lettuce? man if you have hot its on the trailer and everything 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Whitemoon.6173 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 the problem is not that you have to pay for living world, its not that expensive, and seems people are willing to pay for it. it that we have a "complete package" and afterward learn that it is not complete, its only half the story with only the expansions it says what you get, but it does not say what you dont get. does the buyplaces even mention that living world exist? if "the complete package" said, "this package contains all 3 expansions of the game, but the game also has inbetween seasons called 'living world' that can be bought for gems, wich can be bought or exchanged for ingame gold" i dont think we would have these complains much 1 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfb.7025 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 I emphatize with the original poster. The big issue here is that you're never told what you will need in order to play the story or game at its fullest. A new player will never know or understand what a LWS is, when you're a new customer the only thing you see is "Buy HoT! Buy PoF! EoD!!" But you're never told you will need to buy Living World Seasons that basically link these three expansions altogether., resulting in new customers feeling deceived after paying an expansion and finding out they need to pay MORE just to complete the story. Fortunately unlike expansions, you have the option to buy LWS chapters through ingame currency. But for a new player that just got to lv80 and completed personal story, is not really that easy to farm gold to start buying LWS2. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShroomOneUp.6913 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 26 minutes ago, zaswer.5246 said: silverwastes is a free to play map that you can enter without seing the story nor knowing anything, also spoilers? wich spoiler that theres a dragon made of lettuce? man if you have hot its on the trailer and everything this comment already shows me you do not really care about story related arguments as there is more to it than that so no point arguing with you 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 2 hours ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said: and yet you still argue with silverwastes which is living world season 2 which as spoilers story already and can you even enter it without LW2 or a booster? doubt it Maguuma Wastes is included in Core Tyria; i.e. available to everyone, even Play4Free players. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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