PVE Vindicator

[RoboPlunger.7654]

Please please please just make Vindicator viable in open world. I don't care if you can pull 30k in fractals or whatever, I can do that on something else. I just want to be able to play rev (my main since HoT) with a GS in open world and story, and not feel like a chump.

[Virdo.1540]

play Jalis/Shiro, with berserker stats and firework rune. 

Deva Mid-Mid-Mid

Invo Mid-Mid-Bottom

Vindi Mid-Bottom-Top

 

Is fun imo and still good

[Jthug.9506]

Run sigil of stamina, you’ll be a god. If you’re trying to solo champions you might prefer cele renegade.

[TexZero.7910]

But it's already viable in general PvE.

This sounds like more a you having a hard time adjusting to it than the spec being undertuned/unplayable.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

1 hour ago, RoboPlunger.7654 said:

Please please please just make Vindicator viable in open world. I don't care if you can pull 30k in fractals or whatever, I can do that on something else. I just want to be able to play rev (my main since HoT) with a GS in open world and story, and not feel like a chump.

I hate to break it to you, but it's already super viable in open world PvE. It's by far one of the best mob-cleavers in the entire game and only starts to have issues against Champions and Legendaries, which most power builds already struggle with more than their condi counterparts anyway. The only thing it really needs is about 2k more dps for instanced content (which would also help it in open world/story)

To me this reads like a build or gameplay issue. Feel free to pm me if you want advice

Edited June 27, 2022 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Obtena.7952]

Vindicator is more than viable in OW PVE. What's the actual problem? What's the build you have?

Edited June 27, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Tulkas.2576]

1 hour ago, Virdo.1540 said:

play Jalis/Shiro, with berserker stats and firework rune. 

Deva Mid-Mid-Mid

Invo Mid-Mid-Bottom

Vindi Mid-Bottom-Top

 

Is fun imo and still good

 

This plus sigil of stamina on your GS. Run staff as your other weapon for break bars.

if you’re having trouble surviving then go 

deva 2/2/3

invo 2/2/1

vindi 1/3/1

 

you gets tons of battle scars from legend swap and dodging, and dwarf hammers uses them up perfectly. 

swap out devastation for retribution 1/2/1 if you need additional survivability on top of that. 

[otto.5684]

I am unsure, do you need help for OW build? GW2metabattle is your friend. If you think it is not viable… you seriously need to L2P. It is a very survivable build with 100% uptime on quickness. 

[Dahkeus.8243]

Vindicator is definitely viable in open world.  Renegade and herald might be a little better, but it’s still very solid and works very well.  
 

I wouldn’t say anything isn’t “viable” in open world, but even if I were to get picky about what works well in open world and type of DPS elite spec on Revenant gives you solid damage and a fully-stocked toolkit to deal with anything you encounter.  
 

If you struggle with anything, just grab all the Battle Scars traits.

[Nephalem.8921]

9 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

I hate to break it to you, but it's already super viable in open world PvE. It's by far one of the best mob-cleavers in the entire game and only starts to have issues against Champions and Legendaries, which most power builds already struggle with more than their condi counterparts anyway. The only thing it really needs is about 2k more dps for instanced content (which would also help it in open world/story)

To me this reads like a build or gameplay issue. Feel free to pm me if you want advice

Its not even close to be one of the best cleave specs in the game. ok'ish at best. try something broken like willbender or cfb. both melt elite packs in seconds since their single target dps actually scales hard with targets hit and they are already top dps specs when fighting a single target. Vinditrash has 1 target limitations on a lot of skills.

It needs to have its hitbox size reliance removed and cc and more dps and a 2nd dodge. Everything is viable in open world pve even core mesmer. Vindicator is still a trash build in pve though.

Vinditrash does 33k dps on small hitbox. its way worse than untamed. untamed can at least do cc and has insane sustain.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Nephalem.8921

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

1 hour ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Its not even close to be one of the best cleave specs in the game. ok'ish at best. try something broken like willbender or cfb. both melt elite packs in seconds since their single target dps actually scales hard with targets hit and they are already top dps specs when fighting a single target. Vinditrash has 1 target limitations on a lot of skills.

It needs to have its hitbox size reliance removed and cc and more dps and a 2nd dodge. Everything is viable in open world pve even core mesmer. Vindicator is still a trash build in pve though.

Vinditrash does 33k dps on small hitbox. its way worse than untamed. untamed can at least do cc and has insane sustain.

??
First, the poster is having issues in open world and STORY with it, so my comments are geared toward that. The only thing Vindicator really struggles with at all in open world is Champ/Legendaries (largely a power damage problem in general), and even then it still has good sustained dps since it can self sustain quickness, 25 might, and fury decently . I mean yes, condi classes start to catch up with it (and pretty much every other power build) once you start to get to Elite level health/toughness, and yes, condi Guard has always been one of the best at cleaving mobs due to how its Virtues work. This isn't news which is why I didn't say Vindicator was "the best" cleave, I very specifically said "one of the best." No other class besides Daredevil can pogo around near immune and deal huge damage to up to 5 enemies constantly. Spear and Eternity's requiem are also the only "1 target" skills; everything else is 5 target (no I'm not counting Sword here since you really don't need to use it since "Only GS" is about the same in terms of DPS).

Second, it's currently sitting at 35k-ish on small hitbox. 37k on huge. Yes it will be lower as of tomorrow due to the patch, but so will everything else. Does it need more damage for instanced content? Yes. How much? About 2k.

However, I'd say it's fairly naive to not acknowledge how powerful it is in Open World. As long as you can get kills quickly it has really high evade uptime (super safe) and you one, two, or three shot most enemies. Elites generally die extremely fast as well. Its in-combat mobility is also extremely high and between Shiro's Riposting Shadows, Battle Dance, and GS4 it has plenty of solid defensive options if it needs them when it's not pogo-ing everything to death.

Edited June 28, 2022 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Shao.7236]

Everything I do with Vindicator in PvE hits for at least 5 digits and sometimes I see 25k a hit without much effort.

 

Idk what else you want but Vindicator is a heavy hitter not a masher. If you expect condi spam level of display in damage you are definitely not playing the right content.

 

That's funny though that you have the nerve to ask for something better when 30k is already considered more than enough.

[Buran.3796]

4 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Its not even close to be one of the best cleave specs in the game. ok'ish at best. try something broken like willbender or cfb. both melt elite packs in seconds since their single target dps actually scales hard with targets hit and they are already top dps specs when fighting a single target.

   I agree with you. Vindi can be semi-decent againts  trash mobs, but when comes to deal vs veterans, silvers and up, is significatively weaker than power builds as Spellbreaker or Bladesworn and way worse than any condi build spec from Rev or other classes. This is blatant soloing HP in HoT, there's not even need to go to solo legendary bounties: some HPs which are trivial with condi Herald or Renegade became lethal running a Vindi.

   There's a reason why Hizen hasn't release a single video using Vindi or Harb soloing hard content and went celestial Renegade/Mirage to solo Jade Junkyard/Kaineng instead. Vindi and Harbinger are very unidimensional and have big weakness, whereas going with a condi Herald, Renegade, Mirage, Mechanist, Willbender or Scourge you can solo all events of Lake Doric, Thunderhead Peaks and other maps mauling large crowds and champions without a blink, or doing legendary bosses/bounties in some cases.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I did fine in open-world on my Vindicator at EoD release, ran Celestial and swapped between Mallyx Condi Mace/Axe and Vindi Power GS according to the situation, which solves most of the weaknesses. You won't do huge numbers but you won't struggle with Champs, etc. either.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[Buran.3796]

 Power is even worse after the patch, but I'll try to recap a few tips to run a Vindi in OW PvE in a way that is less terrible:

1) Runes. Fireworks is mostly the only way, otherwise the spec feels slow and unresposive (Herald has swiftness and Renegade hits at range). Fireworks also provides power, migth, fury, vigor and a bit of boon duration (which is important), so hard to find a better choice.

2) Weapon choices: your main weapon would be greatsword most of the time; staff as backup weapon provides sustain, utility and breakbars at the cost of having a large drop in dps, whereas two swords keep the dps (against single target) and provide more mobility.

3) Sigils: for the backup probably cleansing and energy, but you want to be there the least amount of time. for the greatsword there's some choices thar are largely circumstantial; against low level mobs stamina and energy works well, force, accuracy, battle/strength and vision are decent options vs bosses.

4) Stats: instead of full zerker I think that dragon should be at least 50% of the gear. Base health should be around 20K, not 17K, and 4 stats gear deliver way more points compated to old fashioned options (some diviner pieces can be great, just the weapons + runes alones will push boons ~30%).

5) Legends: I wouldn't run Jalis. Was my choice along Shiro while I played the spec but the nerfs in Forced Engagement, Planar Protection and the slowness of the greatsword makes it very ineffective. Yes, you have protection, stability and sustain, but only gets you killed slower while dealing low damage. Instead I'll run the Alliance camping Archemorous as much as possible: has stab, furyand quickness (which is crucial) and for protection you can swap to Kurzick and cast Awakening. The gameplan would be precast Awakening and enter in combat swaping to orange with Reaver's Rage + Scavenger Burst. Shiro doesn't heal as much as Jalis but Impossible Odds and Jade Daggers are great aditions to the Eternity's Requiem burst and Riposting Shadows is gold for a build which will rely on blocks and utility evasions to avoid oneshooters. Phase Traversal is also a solid source of quickness...

6) Traits: Devastation and Invocation 2,2,3; Vindicator 1,3,2. The offensive dodge smashes weak minions but will do poorly vs bosses, and the gutted defensive dodge won't do much against heavy attacks, Instead, the increased boons from the Vassals dodge will benefit both sustain and damage, plus the chill is lethal vs regular foes. The other trait lines and traits are oriented towards rising our damage and stacking boons like crazy, so 25 stacks of might, permafury and some other nice things are always on.

   Build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAExzlxQmsO6kxRoMPKlRSqMCqkJ/lesF-zRZYBRwyDOqh5wFeI9ooyUq2rIQxngA+D-e

  Would it work? No clue, but trying both a more agressive full zerk PvE build or a more conservative Jalis + Retribution PvP approach both got my kitten kicked trying to solo hard HPs and bounties, whereas condi Herald/Renegade worked like a charm. I guess this approach at least keeps quicknes, might and fury constantly firing and defensively relies more in mobility and less in passive mitigation.

[Lanz.7312]

And here I was thinking open world PVE was the best thing Vindictor was good at. I just roll over everything. It did take a LOT of getting used to, however, way more adjustment than most other specs I've played on other classes.

[Puck.3697]

On 6/28/2022 at 2:15 PM, Buran.3796 said:

There's a reason why Hizen hasn't release a single video using Vindi or Harb soloing hard content and went celestial Renegade/Mirage to solo Jade Junkyard/Kaineng instead. Vindi and Harbinger are very unidimensional and have big weakness, whereas going with a condi Herald, Renegade, Mirage, Mechanist, Willbender or Scourge you can solo all events of Lake Doric, Thunderhead Peaks and other maps mauling large crowds and champions without a blink, or doing legendary bosses/bounties in some cases

Hizen generally goes for more insane level solo. That doesn't mean it isn't good however. Also he's soloing content thar is beyond what is supposed to be solod. 

Like any category. Where your that far up the chain in terms of the level your playing on, there are less options, like any game and any game mode. 

Vindicator fine for normal open world content and story. 

Soloing what hizen does isn't the standard of balance speccs are held to, and simply should never be. Some speccs can manage some speccs can't. 

Just like again any other game has exceptions that pull this sorta stuff off but thar doesn't mean we just start designing speccs to be capable of soloing group or even strike based content to match. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Buran.3796]

16 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Vindicator fine for normal open world content and story. 

  The Elites of the Alliance are utter useless and the two heals amongst the worst in the entire game, plus Vindi has near 0 cc game. You can argue that Jalis provides a good heal and cc and staff can be used for the later, but once you swap from The Alliance and the greatsword you lose quickness and most of your damage. Vindi is as fine as hammer Guardian: you can make it work, but is as clunky and unfit that most of players just will run another thing...

[Fwog.9387]

Stack a bunch of extra power with consumables and jade buffs, equip a sigil of stamina and one shot almost anything in a map that isn't cantha. (it doesn't work in cantha because the enemies have over inflated hp pools)

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

19 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Hizen generally goes for more insane level solo. That doesn't mean it isn't good however. Also he's soloing content thar is beyond what is supposed to be solod. 

Like any category. Where your that far up the chain in terms of the level your playing on, there are less options, like any game and any game mode. 

Vindicator fine for normal open world content and story. 

Soloing what hizen does isn't the standard of balance speccs are held to, and simply should never be. Some speccs can manage some speccs can't. 

Just like again any other game has exceptions that pull this sorta stuff off but thar doesn't mean we just start designing speccs to be capable of soloing group or even strike based content to match. 

There's more to it than just soloing stuff.  The inability to solo champions on Vind means that, even in a group, Vinds melt when the champion focuses them.