Profession Balance: Next Steps and Preview of June 30 Balance Update

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

14 hours ago, Mik.3401 said:

 They have hella lots to do in order to rebuild the trust of endgame and pvp players.

For pvp'ers yeah sure . They just have wait a bit (Octomber) , till the PvE casual side is in a good footing and then they can create specialized spells for the PvP areas .

(hopefully the process will be speed up ..its been 4months....)

Spoiler

 

(are you sure , you  don't want create an button that equips an LI build , next to the button that kill the instance boss? With some hlighted spells -rotations and after 10 sec the kill button is enabled ? Or an orb that spawns from mobs and give you god-mode(LI) for 8 sec , 20cd ?Or a darksouls-you-and-me-invisible-1v1-open-world-boss and "loot his spec"?)

Edit: If you force some1 and tell him that he must use LI to progress Open-World ...is wrong.

But if you tell some1 ...you know what here is something to fiddle in the open world and have fun ...you dont to respect to this silly spec ever...just use this to kill the pack of mobs ..is good

Also , letting anger out , is good - Teapot vs Casual video

And some others , should stop being kittens

 

The rest of classes (like cata) , they should get more universal rewards (Mystic coin or imperial Favor for every 1milion damage).

Edit: And they are a moving extra "Luck" for  a confeti or something for each other player

 

 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Kunavi.2407]

Sooo, nothing substantial for warriors, especially nothing that affects non banners Builds and even for those I am not exactly having high hopes after all the recent fuss. Class confirmed KIA, RIP... Good thing I have a DD thief I'll be jumping to.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Kunavi.2407

[Heretic.6928]

If you are hoping for stealth play... Nerfed too...

The pulse healing from invis gone. The sustain build also nerfed to oblivion before EOD. Nothing left there. 

 

I used to sing praises of gw2... Now everyone I meet I advise not to play and explain about the toxic dev culture and give example of recent debacle. 

[Polar.8634]

9 hours ago, Khenzy.9348 said:

Do you think having perma alacrity and 100% uptime on projectile block with little effort in group fights is healthy for the game?

Nobody runs alac build in wvw. Also, it's healthy to have counter for op ranged classes, which press 1, maybe some few more buttons to one shot ppl from 1200. Equip melee set, ventary rev does not use jalis so it's weaker to melee. Use cc, since it only has 1 stun break only in shiro. Or u think pew-pew from tower is peak wvw gameplay and should be promoted?

[ThunderX.6591]

34 minutes ago, Kunavi.2407 said:

Sooo, nothing substantial for warriors, especially nothing that affects non banners Builds and even for those I am not exactly having high hopes after all the recent fuss. Class confirmed KIA, RIP... Good thing I have a DD thief I'll be jumping to.

Ok, just asking, is the fact that Bladesworn, warrior elite is the top power dps now a simple rumor??

Cause i read only some random post about it, but all the other post i see are about warrior with or without elite specs considered a dead class. (i know some war elite aren't good and need some work on, expecially after banner change, BUT if the rumor is true, you have an elite spec that is the actual TOP DPS POWER class in the game, so i want to know what is the real true of the matter).

[Cait Sith.4650]

You had almost 4 full months to work on the balance patch since EoD released, with plenty of amazing and detailed suggestions from your community regarding overperforming/underperforming/outdated traits, skills, weapons, and design flaws.
You released a preview which was basically universally panned by the community, with detailed explanations on why it would further hurt the game's balance.
The Balance Discord leaks happened, further incensing the community, because they added facts to what many thought for years already, the existence of severe lack of knowledge and personal bias in the balance team members.
You released a follow up post where you affirmed your community basically didn't understand the changes, and you lumped together persons who made death threats, which are inexcusable, with persons asking for an inept member of your staff to be fired, one that called your customers idiots, and gladly wanted to see some amazing salt, as a result of the balance patch changes, further infuriating the community.
 

Quote

It’s much more difficult to assess a given change without a shared understanding of the underlying goal of the change and the problem it’s trying to solve for.

 

Quote

To those that have chosen extreme toxicity, called for developers to be fired, or sent death threats–you're not welcome in our community.

You decided to go ahead and still release the balance patch, because it couldn't be split from all the other changes scheduled.
Because of that the Harvest Temple Challenge Mode and Mordremoth Variant Legendary Weapons lost a lot of the impact they could have had. Add to that the fact the Challenge Mode, even with its delay, still released with several bugs.
Even if it's a small and very specific data sample, the end result. https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/popularity
On the same week you release a hotfix balance update, starting the reversal of the balance patch changes.
You split the rest across a grueling process of several months, with small changes in July, a follow-up balance update in August, and the next major professions update in October.
It's like you could walk through a straight, sunny path, but you decided to blindfold yourselves and go through the Himalayas.
From start to finish, it will take close to 8 months.
If we're generous, the last 4 years have been basically this back and forth.

I am very interested on how the design notes next week will explain your philosophy.

Also, can you rename this? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Senility 😑

Edited July 2, 2022 by Cait Sith.4650

[Duos.3217]

I do respect you Josh but this is more like a damage control update rather than the next step.

On 28th we had a patch that created a certain atmosphere and on this post, I do appreciate that you share the thoughts of what you were working on the professions, but I also feel that this should have been done before the release.

 

Taking as example soulbeast, you nerfed the elite skill and only on 30th you have compensate with buffing the weapons skills. This is a balancing action and this is something u expect to have been tested to the point that you will implement both balancing changes, reject one and try to find the replacement, or reject both. You don't go on live with only 1 part of the equation because this is not called balance and this is also makes the Live version like a test version.

 

I was hyped as many other players when u start sharing dates on the roadmap, but if it's something that creates pressure and we have half done implementations, personally, I m fine with no roadmap or seasonal roadmap without dates on the dot.

[Ascency.3580]

12 hours ago, Cait Sith.4650 said:

https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/popularity

ye, 61,02% of the meta is played by 4 out of 27 proffesions. balance at its peak.

[Ascency.3580]

i've posted about this in the forums already. who in the balance team decided catalyst needs this big of a nerf? i mean 1% of ppl even playing the class were able to actually bench what the class was in theory capable of. close to imposible to maintain this peak rotation in any real fight. so the class gets a nerf, ofc, its an ele. but then u decide only one class in the game should be allowed to provide quickness completely unchecked, that is fb, so u completely decimate any reason anyone would have to running quick cata. u have to take two traits just to be able to, with enough concentration upkeep quickness. did anyone think for even a second how much it will cost in terms of dps if u were to go quickness cata now? 10% from auras, 10 from ee, 10% from the stupid penalty on spectacular sphere, and then u still need stats to provide enough quickness or u skip doing any reasonable rotation to favor air sphere. quickness cata will be doing like 20k dps now lol.

[SoulBlaze.3059]

So when are we going to fix engineers running rampant in PvP? Oh the devs dont care about PvP? got it.

[Kunavi.2407]

23 hours ago, ThunderX.6591 said:

[...]

Warrior has been reduced and stuck in, Zerker with axes or condi, for way too long. Its choices have always been Strength and Discipline, then Zerker, with the 2 core spec being rigid AF- No room for creativity, just pick this and that. No real options, same for the Zerker spec- You either do option A which is axes PDPS or B which is condi LongBow and Torch(The sword might as well not exist TBH).

Even so, it was never S tier, just comfortably "Good". In terms of PDPS, I would say that DD thief with staff was better and far more enjoyable. In terms of CDPS, well, just pick any other one really.

Then there's the whole banners issue, which is its own can of worms(See Banner-Slaves, how boring they are, ETC).

SpellBreaker did absolutely nothing to remedy any of this... Perhaps it's OK in some form or other, of PVP.

When BladeSworn was first shown, and then made available for the first time around, it looked like warriors could have a new choice. Then it got hit too hard the 2nd time we got to play it, then it released. And it is gutter trash...

That said, someone recently made it work(Don't worry, they'll probably "FIX" it because if a group has 3-4 of that build, they can buff hard- Which is why Ele was wrecked IIRC)... By that I mean they managed to finally make it bench better than Zerker, yet if you watch the demonstration it's still clunky, slow and out of sync with the pace of GW2. It's not worth milking it this hard just to achieve some numbers that won't come out in actual content. I mean, there are other classes and specializations that do the exact same thing, just better- In actual content too.

It can't even be argued that BS have utility or defense or self sustain, because they need to either not pick any of that or use it to maintain a boost to their DPS.

Any way, that's more or less my interpretation of what happened and I wouldn't get too turned up just because some random person or two benched 36-38K by trying harder than a whole FFXIV World First Ultimate Clear group combined... ON A GOLEM, mind you ;3

...And it will likely be... Balanced, soon. Again, that's why Ele got BaLAnceD IIRC- Some niche situation where a lot of Ele could maintain a certain buff permanently.

Now, checking the changes they're planning for warrior, I see no mentions aside banners and tweaking Furious Burst this or that way... Both of which are largely irrelevant as an effort to improve the class as a whole, or at least BS. So if the situation is going to change, we'll only know in 1-2 months when they reveal more of their plans.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Kunavi.2407

[Dante.1508]

I wonder what Grouch learned this week... That players are tired of the classes being destroyed all the time..

 

When are they going to fix warriors ranged options? why not just remove them. and when are they going to refix Rangers spirits.

[Thumpasorus.2091]

One of the main issues I've had with these changes, and that is very strongly reflected on the changes to Ranger, is that they take away from each spec's identity. You claim that Soulbeast's damage relied on burst, as if this was a bad thing, and not a fundamental aspect of Power Soulbeast's identity. I understand making classes more accessible and playable without having to execute  on those tight timings, but not every class should or could play the same. If someone isn't reaching Power Soulbeast's potential, they can try some other class, or the easy to use condi soulbeast.

[Ascency.3580]

3 hours ago, Thumpasorus.2091 said:

One of the main issues I've had with these changes, and that is very strongly reflected on the changes to Ranger, is that they take away from each spec's identity. You claim that Soulbeast's damage relied on burst, as if this was a bad thing, and not a fundamental aspect of Power Soulbeast's identity. I understand making classes more accessible and playable without having to execute  on those tight timings, but not every class should or could play the same. If someone isn't reaching Power Soulbeast's potential, they can try some other class, or the easy to use condi soulbeast.

Thats the issue with most classes these days. They kill identity in favor of homogenized mechanics. And change class roles often times in the process. Ppl choosing a class know what options in terms of builds they have, this changing after any amount of time is horrible. Especialy if its not even called for becouse i cant find a reason for sb dps being burst based to be a bad thing in any way. Same thing happened to chrono. It being able to provide both quickness and alac was a theme thing, chrono being the "time mage" but it did cost almost all dmg in the process, and it wasnt able to give much else at this point. But it was an option and legends say it was used once or twice in history. Somehow fb can do quickness and heal effectively, same with mech with alac. And give a crapton of stability on top. Why cant other classes have something that define them in a way that differentiate their playstyle and be viable

[bruakumfd.4817]

I really appreciate the communication because a lot of people myself included are angry. Here's the thing: I didn't think Tempests needed alacrity, especially if it's going to interfere with DPS. Granted, I've been able to avoid this, and only because it's a major trait. 

 

Still, it'd be nicer if I do to the same with the Catalyst hammer. I actually felt stronger with that on the Untamed...just for it to become weaker than the staff. Yes, you can check on the wiki or in-game itself, and the staff moves will be stronger. At least being a Tempest has wielded great results because I played Weaver a few years ago, and I died too much. Well, it was either that or I didn't do that much damage.

 

Speaking of damage, I'm surprised that Engineer Rifles even got a stealth nerf. I fought with a couple of them just doing a couple of Hero Challenges in Crystal Oasis, and they completely trivialized the fights. While I don't think that should be apart of any dev's vision, I don't want Engis to not have any viable elite specs.

 

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

Oh joy... 3 more months of my thief being in a janky state. And unable to do anything better than other professions.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497

[Gajex.2386]

On 7/1/2022 at 12:51 AM, Josh Davis.7865 said:

We (I, especially) learned a lot this week, and we’re actively discussing ways to prevent situations like this from happening again.

I believe it when it actually happens.

For now I'll make do with pointing out that preventing a situation is not equal improving a situation.

[Ashen.2907]

I think that the design philosophy behind the initial ranger changes is misguided but, accepting that as the new paradigm, the updates to weapon skills are insufficient.

[eXruina.4956]

On 7/2/2022 at 7:42 AM, ThunderX.6591 said:

Ok, just asking, is the fact that Bladesworn, warrior elite is the top power dps now a simple rumor??

Cause i read only some random post about it, but all the other post i see are about warrior with or without elite specs considered a dead class. (i know some war elite aren't good and need some work on, expecially after banner change, BUT if the rumor is true, you have an elite spec that is the actual TOP DPS POWER class in the game, so i want to know what is the real true of the matter).

tldr: in pve, bladesworn performance and success is highly dependent on the encounter you'll be facing.

 

bladesworn, in pve, has been doing well dps-wise even before the patch and yes more after the patch.

 

its not widely popular because its inconsistent, its success is highly dependent on the encounter you're against.

 

standing still and an interruptible channel, are both a significant drawback in many encounters, specially when dealing with mechanics.

 

without proper support, even a skilled bladesworn will eventually find himself interrupted or forced to cancel to deal with mechanics.

 

you will see that after missing even just a couple of dragon slashes, bladesworn's performance drops significantly.

 

against other, safer, more consistent class options.

Edited July 5, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[foxof.8752]

Congratulations to the 3 mechs, 4 virts, 2 FB, 1 soul that clear the Havert Temple CM.
Best balance ever~

Edited July 5, 2022 by foxof.8752

[Karagee.6830]

13 hours ago, eXruina.4956 said:

tldr: in pve, bladesworn performance and success is highly dependent on the encounter you'll be facing.

 

bladesworn, in pve, has been doing well dps-wise even before the patch and yes more after the patch.

 

its not widely popular because its inconsistent, its success is highly dependent on the encounter you're against.

 

standing still and an interruptible channel, are both a significant drawback in many encounters, specially when dealing with mechanics.

 

without proper support, even a skilled bladesworn will eventually find himself interrupted or forced to cancel to deal with mechanics.

 

you will see that after missing even just a couple of dragon slashes, bladesworn's performance drops significantly.

 

against other, safer, more consistent class options.

Not to mention that the level of burst embedded in dragon slash by nature gives you an overkill by 150-200k on a 4million golem and that's why it takes 5 seconds longer to kill a 4m golem than any other class doing the same dps. Put in another way, if you happened to kill the golem not with dragon slash but any other ability you would be doing 2k less dps. 

People should stop looking at benchmarks when they can't understand basic things like this. I think soulbeast was a perfect example: following a patch the benchmark fell by 4k because the golem hp no longer aligned with the burst timing, but the overall damage capabilities were almost the same.

A concrete example of how bad things could be for bladesworn even if played to perfection: in an actual encounters where a boss phases multiple times, the damage beyond some hp thresholds may be nullified (and this is often the case) and so your 200k+ dragon slash may actually hit for 1k (199knullified). That is unless you are still charging the slash, as the boss phases in which case you'll be in the -2k dps scenario above. For each phasing.

All of this without even considering the elephant in the room of range vs melee and stationary abilities.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Puck.3697]

On 7/1/2022 at 10:28 PM, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

For pvp'ers yeah sure . They just have wait a bit (Octomber) , till the PvE casual side is in a good footing and then they can create specialized spells for the PvP areas .

(hopefully the process will be speed up ..its been 4months....

I've never heard anet saying their going to make specialised spells for pvp content??  Where's this?? 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I've never heard anet saying their going to make specialised spells for pvp content??  Where's this?? 

 

Copium. I'm pretty certain CmC has actually said the exact opposite, that because the skills team doesn't want the skill behavior to be different between game modes, balance is relegated to numbers changes. Any changes to traitlines and skills have to push for all content. 

 

Room for numbers changes only is plenty to work with though. 

[Karagee.6830]

57 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

Copium. I'm pretty certain CmC has actually said the exact opposite, that because the skills team doesn't want the skill behavior to be different between game modes, balance is relegated to numbers changes. Any changes to traitlines and skills have to push for all content. 

 

Room for numbers changes only is plenty to work with though. 

But some traits are only taken in pvp/wvw and never in pve so balancing/changing those traits has no effect on pve balance. It makes no sense to balance those looking at the pve/open world use. 

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

Copium. I'm pretty certain CmC has actually said the exact opposite, that because the skills team doesn't want the skill behavior to be different between game modes, balance is relegated to numbers changes. Any changes to traitlines and skills have to push for all content. 

 

Room for numbers changes only is plenty to work with though. 

The recent skill changes indicate that ANet no longer adheres to that philosophy. Differences between game modes can now be a matter of functionality.