On-hit Auras

[Zagerus.8675]

Shocking Aura and Magnetic Aura are a bit over the top atm in PvP. I think their effectiveness needs to be realigned to provide more of a window to pressure targets off a point/into line of sight kiting, especially when a second survivable spec is present in the fight. Two routes that I can think of: Limit how many attacks on-hit aura's can effect in general, or change the Powerful Aura trait.

 

Either: PvP Only - Non-field Auras now expire after a certain number of attacks. Shocking Aura: 1 attack. Magnetic Aura: 3 attacks. Auras that grant boons or conditions remain unchanged.

Or: Powerful Aura - Any aura you grant yourself is granted to nearby allies. (On-hit aura effectiveness on allies is reduced only while the Tempest specialization is equipped.)

 

[Ragnar.4257]

That already exists for Shocking Aura. You can only be affected by it once every 2 seconds, and since shocking aura lasts 4 seconds, you can usually only be affected by it twice.

Support- builds in general are already at the point where they're no longer mandatory, they're optional. Making them weaker than they are right now would be pretty silly.

[Zagerus.8675]

The on-hit cd for Shocking Aura is per attacker though. Yes you can wait for it to fade, but that makes the window even smaller to pressure a survivable build that is being supported at mid by the Tempest. Magnetic Aura being able to reflect a virtually unlimited number of attacks on 3+ players also seems out of line. Good active support is fine, but Magnetic Aura has no counter-play except to not attack.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

3 minutes ago, Zagerus.8675 said:

The on-hit cd for Shocking Aura is per attacker though. Yes you can wait for it to fade, but that makes the window even smaller to pressure a survivable build that is being supported at mid by the Tempest. Magnetic Aura being able to reflect a virtually unlimited number of attacks on 3+ players also seems out of line. Good active support is fine, but Magnetic Aura has no counter-play except to not attack.

Unblockable attacks go threw magnetic aura. And pretty much every projectile class has access to an unblockable utility. There's counters out there for these things but people don't want to use them or don't know about them I guess. My point is, auras are fine.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

29 minutes ago, Zagerus.8675 said:

The on-hit cd for Shocking Aura is per attacker though.

^ Very important to point out.

I mean could you imagine if your class could kite 5 players in a match and Hard CC each of them twice from casting a single non-elite skill, and you could still take other actions while doing this because all of that Hard CC was passive no-animation required? Then when the effect stopped you could just cast it again immediately afterwards because you had two rotating sources of that skill? AND you could also give that same skill to all of your team mates each time you cast it?

That would be amazing, and by standards of every other skill/effect in the game, also very broken.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Ragnar.4257]

13 minutes ago, Zagerus.8675 said:

The on-hit cd for Shocking Aura is per attacker though. Yes you can wait for it to fade, but that makes the window even smaller to pressure a survivable build that is being supported at mid by the Tempest. Magnetic Aura being able to reflect a virtually unlimited number of attacks on 3+ players also seems out of line. Good active support is fine, but Magnetic Aura has no counter-play except to not attack.

The counterplay to magnetic-aura is to swap to a melee weapon / non-projectile weapon. If you're running a build with 100% projectile attacks, congrats on making a build that's super-easy to counter. Maybe don't do that. Or, yes, just stop mashing attacks for 3 seconds, which is the exact same counterplay as for Confusion. Or use something unblockable.

And..... let me get this straight. You want to make it so Shocking Aura can only trigger once, on one attack, from all attackers? Thus making it actually weaker than Aegis? ????

You seem to think that you are entitled to always have a counterplay option available at all times, regardless of what choices you make in your build or how you manage your cooldowns. The fact that you haven't choosen to take the counterplay option in your build, or you've not managed your cooldowns correctly, doens't mean that counterplay doesn't exist.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Ragnar.4257

[Zagerus.8675]

8 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

The counterplay to magnetic-aura is to swap to a melee weapon / non-projectile weapon. If you're running a build with 100% projectile attacks, congrats on making a build that's super-easy to counter. Maybe don't do that. Or, yes, just stop mashing attacks for 3 seconds, which is the exact same counterplay as for Confusion. Or use something unblockable.

And..... let me get this straight. You want to make it so Shocking Aura can only trigger once, on one attack, from all attackers? Thus making it actually weaker than Aegis? ????

You seem to think that you are entitled to always have a counterplay option available at all times, regardless of what choices you make in your build or how you manage your cooldowns. The fact that you haven't choosen to take the counterplay option in your build, or you've not managed your cooldowns correctly, doens't mean that counterplay doesn't exist.

There aren't very many unique defensive effects in the game that also provide offensive value that also get applied to more than one gamer in a fight. In a competitive scenario not much would change as players are usually aware enough to stow when they see either of these auras and thus they would achieve the same purpose there regardless of if you change them or not. Enter a scenario in a Ranked match where there is huge potential for these auras to be overly oppressive and it just feels bad fighting against them. Also Aegis doesn't stun attackers homie.

[Ragnar.4257]

1 minute ago, Zagerus.8675 said:

There aren't very many unique defensive effects in the game that also provide offensive value that also get applied to more than one gamer in a fight. In a competitive scenario not much would change as players are usually aware enough to stow when they see either of these auras and thus they would achieve the same purpose there regardless of if you change them or not. Enter a scenario in a Ranked match where there is huge potential for these auras to be overly oppressive and it just feels bad fighting against them. Also Aegis doesn't stun attackers homie.

But Aegis does negate the attack, while Shocking Aura does not. Aegis also blocks attacks from outside of melee-range, Shocking Aura does not.

If Shocking Aura was changed as you suggest, I would much rather have an Aegis on me than Shocking Aura.

And, no, at competitive level, things would not stay the same. If it was changed as you suggest, co-ordinated teams wouldn't all stow their weapons. They'd just burn through the aura. If anything co-ordinated teams would benefit much more from this.

[coro.3176]

Does shocking aura still CC you out of dodge evade if the opponent touches one of your pulsing ground AoEs? I always found that interaction kind of weird.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

first one is a hard over nerf but whats the reduced effectiveness of the second one? i was thinking maybe 30% reduced duration.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Stand The Wall.6987

[Downstate.4697]

Reduce the duration of stronger auras to 3s maybe.

[Vancho.8750]

9 hours ago, coro.3176 said:

Does shocking aura still CC you out of dodge evade if the opponent touches one of your pulsing ground AoEs? I always found that interaction kind of weird.

Yep, it still works this way.

[Sahne.6950]

Very important to point out.

Shockingaura will only stun you if you actually hit the enemy(he still receives the dmg, so dont act like it nullyfis damage), he does not have stability, and is CLOSE to you. If any one of these requirements is not met, or you hit the enemy with a ranged atk... shockingaura will do exactly nothing. In the current projectilemeta... thats a big deal.

I just think its funny how people are trying to get shocking aura and magneticaura nerfed, when its literally THE ONLY THING that a support tempest has to save his team.

The healingoutput is mediocre at best, when your teammate is getting bursted, no soothingmist or hp from applying a aura will safe them. The only thing the tempest can do is, apply a shocking aura if the temmate is getting bursted in meele, or a magnetic if he is getting attacked by projectiles. THATS IT. thats all the Tempest can do to protect his temmates.

If we take that away.... its bye bye tempest, and HELLO Suppguardian with Stabi-and-Aegis-galore in every game again.

 

There is a simple solution to the auras....

Shockaura: just step a few feet back. The range where it will stun is actually pretty small, and then continue to melt the enemys.

magneticaura: stop spamming ranged atks for a few seconds.... go meele... use "nonprojectile-ranged atks"......or simply hold and save your CD´s.

Both auras literally hav 0 value if you know your way around this. But they seem incredibly overpowered for anyone thats just mindlessly hammering buttons.

They only have value against skilled players, should the tempest apply them at a good time, lets say when you already leaping at your enemy and the tempest then gives them shochaura... But then the tempest literally did his job good... and your only stunned for 1 sec... Meanwhile a Guardianbubble, will reflect every projectile, trap you inside, he will poop stability and aegis, has WAYY more healingoutput... you name it.... do people really want that?

 

Tempest always has a glaring weakness, and there is no way around this.

Fire/water/tempest = Vulnerable to powerburst     Earth/water/tempest = melts to condis.

you gotta figure out what the tempest is playing and act accordingly. If he apply protection with auras, its the earthbuild and thus a condiguy has to deal with him. if he doesnt give protection. he is a freekill for any meeleburst.

 

Do people really want "supguard-only" again? Tempest atleast has counters and glaring weaknesses... just gotta know them i guess.

Auras are working the exact same way they did since tempest has released... but only now they have become overpowered? Thats the same as those "buhuu stone heart op" threads... People dont even know why tempest is strong currently.. so they point fingers at random things that interrupt their gameplay the most...

pssst guys! the thing you should be mad about is not the auras they have not been touched, nor is it Stonehear.... Think about it REAAALLY HARD! what did they change?

elementalbastion, elementalshielding and transmutes have been changed.... could that be a reason? i have not heard ANYTHING about that in any of these QQ threads.... it appears to me that.. people dont even know the class but start complaining!? NO WAY!

Thanks to elementalbastion buffs, With Sage amulett your produce more Healing than a full minstreltempest in wvw ever could... (still less than a supguardian can do)

Thanks to elemantalshielding you have near permaprotection altho u have 0 concentration...(alot of it is selfish tho)

You can now transmute the fireaura 4 times should you go with the firebuild and thus can provide 20 might in a heartbeat.......

BUT YEAH! keep complaining about Shock aura and magnetic aura... things that work exactly the same like 5 years ago... xD

tldr: while tempest has received some buffs, its not the things people complain about weirdly, which shows that those people have no clue whats actually going on. Tempest on its own is not strong, it has strong matchups against the big 5 metabuilds. (just jump on a... condirev and youll instantly see any tempest melt) Auras are not the problem. People mindlessly hammering their buttons into these auras are the problem. When a harbinger spams his skills into a magneticaura and thus dies.... is the problem the magnetic aura? or is it the 🍔 that cant be bothered to use his few "non-projectile" skills during those few seconds? hummm....

Tempest has a wagonload of counters and ways how you can work around those "overpowered" 😉 mechanics. But people cant be bothered to think about these counters, or adept their playstyle, so they think its blatantly overpowered and they start threads about Auras, which are unchanged since forever kinda. People starting these threads do not even know what was buffed recently and why tempest might be strong currently... and i think that shows just how objective these threads really are.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Terrorhuz.4695]

> be mesmer
> ele uses shocking aura and goes on his super-sayian-crazed-beast mode
> use blurred frenzy to save yourself
> blurred frenzy has small attacks that do nothing, but they're still attacks; you're rupted
> use bladeturn requiem to save yourself
> bladeturn requiem has small attacks that do nothing, but they're still attacks; you're rupted
> use chronomancer shield block to save yourself
> shield block on chrono doesn't even have an attack, but for whatever reason IT DOES proc shocking aura; you're rupted
> stop attacking to avoid proccing shocking aura
> that one clone you shattered 30 minutes ago finally reaches its intended target; you're rupted
> try to put some distance between you and the elementalist
> elementalist maliciously steps over the chaos storm still pulsing from 30 minutes ago; you're rupted
> use signet of midnight\torch4 to save yourself
> you'll never guess what happens next

Fighting elementalists on mesmer sure can be fun.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Esufer.8762]

22 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Very important to point out.

Shockingaura will only stun you if you actually hit the enemy

or in my case
it will always stun me
never stop going ham

[Sahne.6950]

9 minutes ago, Esufer.8762 said:

or in my case
it will always stun me
never stop going ham

Thats the type of content ive been looking for!

[Sahne.6950]

20 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

> be mesmer
> ele uses shocking aura and goes on his super-anger-everything-explodes mode
> use blurred frenzy to save yourself
> blurred frenzy has small attacks that do nothing, but they're still attacks; you're rupted
> use bladeturn requiem to save yourself
> bladeturn requiem has small attacks that do nothing, but they're still attacks; you're rupted
> use chronomancer shield block to save yourself
> shield block on chrono doesn't even have an attack, but for whatever reason IT DOES proc shocking aura; you're rupted
> stop attacking to avoid proccing shocking aura
> that one clone you shattered 30 minutes ago finally reaches its intended target; you're rupted
> try to put some distance between you and the elementalist
> elementalist maliciously steps over the chaos storm still pulsing from 30 minutes ago; you're rupted
> use signet of midnight\torch4 to save yourself
> you'll never guess what happens next

Fighting elementalists on mesmer sure can be fun.

😧 that sounds just about awful... but luckily shocking aura can proc max 2 times, but most times it only stuns once.

yo bud! when are we going to play again? i miss getting spl00ped by your chrono 😄

rumors say u quit :C

Edited July 27, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Ptolomy.6984]

I think the bigger problem here is that people dont bother to learn how to counter tempest or ele in general. Ele in general gives enough tells on what it is going to do. If it suddenly spawns a shield or goes earth attunement, expect magnetic aura, it goes into air expect shocking aura. You see it channel for 4 secs doing mediocre damage either bust him down, interrupt or prepare for an inc aura, 5 sec to reach singularity +4 sec overload = 9 sec to do something about it. Now aftershock is bit harder to react to but that is kinda the point and for rebound... its an elite with an aura on delay.  That plus all the other ways to counter auras that are mentioned. If you dont want to deal with those ways to counter it that is fine, but dont pretend its OP. Auras have worked the same since a very long time, shocking can only hit the same target twice and has a short range.

Now if youre getting rekt by auras and you werent focussing the ele to see the tells, maybe thats an indication you should focus it.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Ptolomy.6984

[Hotride.2187]

11 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Support- builds in general are already at the point where they're no longer mandatory, they're optional. Making them weaker than they are right now would be pretty silly.

They are? When I still played before eod the team without a guard support lost. Sounds amazing if this is no longer the case.

[Sahne.6950]

Yeah even in Tournament there is teams that are winning games without a support at all.

But here we are, trying to get supportTempest nerfed xD

Edited July 27, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Kodama.6453]

9 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Yeah even in Tournament there is teams that are winning games without a support at all.

But here we are, trying to get supportTempest nerfed xD

Keep in mind, there are more factors which lead to nerfing a spec than just being powerful in tournaments. One of these other factors is player frustration.

Classic example: Flamethrower scrapper. The build was absolutely not OP. The build was easy to counter if you knew what you were doing, since the flamethrower is still plagued with the same problems since release, like the fact that it can't hit a slightly elevated enemy. Or the fact that you could use more than 1 CC in quick succession to CC the scrapper. When a flamethrower scrapper got focused, they died easily.

Now why was that build still nerfed (the AA power coefficient almost halved in PvP)? The answer is, because the build was frustrating too many players. Instead of learning how to counter the build, people simply complained that their standard pattern of "throw 1 CC, then burst" didn't work on that build, since it allowed the scrapper to ignore 1 CC every 3 seconds.

Sure, auras were not changed over all these years and are the same. But they are more prevalent now than they ever were in this time, meaning more people are exposed to the mechanic. And one thing is very clear if you look at this thread: auras are frustrating to deal with for players.

Sure, you can counter them. But as flamethrower scrapper has shown, people have no interest in learning the counters. Their standard play pattern doesn't work against them anymore, they feel like they don't get to play the game how they used to, this frustrates them and they demand nerfs. I wouldn't be surprised if Anet gives tempest some more nerfs in the next time.

 

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Keep in mind, there are more factors which lead to nerfing a spec than just being powerful in tournaments. One of these other factors is player frustration.

Classic example: Flamethrower scrapper. The build was absolutely not OP. The build was easy to counter if you knew what you were doing, since the flamethrower is still plagued with the same problems since release, like the fact that it can't hit a slightly elevated enemy. Or the fact that you could use more than 1 CC in quick succession to CC the scrapper. When a flamethrower scrapper got focused, they died easily.

Now why was that build still nerfed (the AA power coefficient almost halved in PvP)? The answer is, because the build was frustrating too many players. Instead of learning how to counter the build, people simply complained that their standard pattern of "throw 1 CC, then burst" didn't work on that build, since it allowed the scrapper to ignore 1 CC every 3 seconds.

Sure, auras were not changed over all these years and are the same. But they are more prevalent now than they ever were in this time, meaning more people are exposed to the mechanic. And one thing is very clear if you look at this thread: auras are frustrating to deal with for players.

Sure, you can counter them. But as flamethrower scrapper has shown, people have no interest in learning the counters. Their standard play pattern doesn't work against them anymore, they feel like they don't get to play the game how they used to, this frustrates them and they demand nerfs. I wouldn't be surprised if Anet gives tempest some more nerfs in the next time.

 

bro.... are you comparing tempest to FT scrapper!?

"Classic example: Flamethrower scrapper. The build was absolutely not OP."

Thats got to be the biggest, most unreasonable joke of all time.

"the flamethrower is still plagued with the same problems since release, like the fact that it can't hit a slightly elevated enemy. Or the fact that you could use more than 1 CC in quick succession to CC the scrapper.."

Holy kitten! just 1 stack of stability that reapplys over and over again!?  Just look at all those other classes that get permanentStability when AA´ing! the build was absolutely not OP! 🤡

instead of learning how to counter FT scrapper xDDD bruh! spotted the guy that was abusing it nonstop! if you think that this thing has any counters outside of abusing its wonky hitregistration, your literally joking right now. Just use elevated ground... okey... and what do i do in openfield? jump? or do i just melt now? xD OH NO! let me waste 2 CC skills into the scrapper, just so the timing of the reapplication of stability messes me up and he still has stability on the second CC... yeah... nice! it was not even a projectile! so projectilehate didnt work aswell...

When your only example of a counter, is that you have to abuse that its bugged on elevated terrain... instead of naming any actualy intended gameplay mechanics or builds that work well against FTscrapper... there might be something wrong! Your glorious example doesnt even work when im on a node! as they are all flat ground. what should i do then? run off the node and to the next stair as soon as i see a scrapper?!

Not op at all xD! you for sure never met 2 in the same team, that were literally running in eachother and melting everyone in 1 second.. while sitting nice and comfy on permanent stability, just with them holding down the 1 key.... Yeah, what a balanced and interactive build.

FT scrapper was literally holding down the 1 key, got permanentstability and produced a insane DPS while doing so. It got nerfed because: "They do not want such LI AA builds have such high impact."

If they would nerf builds solely based on player frustration, Harbinger would be gone by now. There would be no thief class at all. Mesmer would have been deleted just 10seconds after the game went live, It would not have took them years to nerf trapper rune, yada yada.

THEY DO NOT nerf classes based on some peoples perception of it being frustrating to fight against.

They nerf classes based on people complaining in their Discord and throwing darts on a flipchart, but thats another story to be told.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

Shocking Aura is busted and should be a daze, Magnetic Aura is fine it's just that Earth Shield is busted and Earth Shield #3 is overloaded with mobility, daze, damage, and aura in one (remove the aura).

[Kodama.6453]

5 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Holy kitten! just 1 stack of stability that reapplys over and over again!?  Just look at all those other classes that get permanentStability when AA´ing! the build was absolutely not OP! 🤡

Funny that this 1 stack of stability is the thing you complain about that "is OP" for flamethrower.

Your argument for auras before has been "they have been like this for years and now they are supposed to be OP? NO WAY".
Juggernaut gave perma stabilitysince the beta of this game. Even back in the days when stability was not a stacking buff that got used up when you get CCed, when it was a buff that prevented ALL ccs for it's entire duration.

5 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

instead of learning how to counter FT scrapper xDDD bruh! spotted the guy that was abusing it nonstop! if you think that this thing has any counters outside of abusing its wonky hitregistration, your literally joking right now. Just use elevated ground... okey... and what do i do in openfield? jump? or do i just melt now? xD OH NO! let me waste 2 CC skills into the scrapper, just so the timing of the reapplication of stability messes me up and he still has stability on the second CC... yeah... nice! it was not even a projectile! so projectilehate didnt work aswell...

That you assume that it has been the only counter, just because I named it since it was the hardest (since it was completely shutting down the FT scrapper) already tells that you have been one of these players which didn't bother to actually learn the counters of the build.

It's condi cleanse was poor. Condi bomb them and they died in a heartbeat.

Also funny that you consider using multiple CCs on them not proper counterplay, meanwhileyou play tempest which spams CC all over the place.

5 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

FT scrapper was literally holding down the 1 key, got permanentstability and produced a insane DPS while doing so. It got nerfed because: "They do not want such LI AA builds have such high impact."

If they were "just holding down 1 key", then you have encountered terrible FT scrappers. And that you seem to have struggled against them makes this even funnier.

5 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

If they would nerf builds solely based on player frustration, Harbinger would be gone by now. There would be no thief class at all. Mesmer would have been deleted just 10seconds after the game went live, It would not have took them years to nerf trapper rune, yada yada.

There have been several builds and skills which got nerfed over the years because of player frustration. But seeing how you are engaging in discussions, it's not worth to keep this discussion going. Have fun abusing your tempest.

[Dadnir.5038]

Truth is that the issue isn't the number of time these auras can proc but the effects of these auras.