Cele has to go

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

28 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Which data? We don't have actual data about what players use and even if we had, it wouldn't mean that much, becaúse many players in WvW run bad builds.

Doubt it is actually the most commonly run set, and even if it was, it just means players don't run actually good builds. Also nothing comes anywhere close to the dmg + sustain cele provides. Mara is nothing special in comparison and on par with other 4-stat gear. It is only bis for (power) thief builds and most of those struggle vs anything cele.

Nonsense.

It's both.

Not true either. It was used on some builds which already made it better than like 90% of other stat combinations.

You do know there are external websites which provide alot of useful information about the game, both in the most common builds used and the types of equipment players wear?

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

24 minutes ago, Guirssane.7082 said:

Yes, look at the "effectiveness" of every type of build now. 90% of the Cele build are categorized as "meta" where the "power" build are just "good". 

Stop going tunnel vision mode with your argument. 

You're not going to win a Cele build as a power build against people of equal skill. That's a fact.

Gear has only a marginal effect compared to skill in this game.

 

Your stats have such a miniscule effect on everything compared to your overall setup and playstyle and its always confusing when players constantly complain about both gear and stats (especially claim buff), on these forums which only shows they don't know how to play the game. Its like walking into a platinum-level game in PvP and saying "hey, I know I'm only silver, but I think we should rotate differently."

Edited August 30, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Zyreva.1078]

23 minutes ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

You do know there are external websites which provide alot of useful information about the game, both in the most common builds used and the types of equipment players wear?

When it comes to WvW, and roaming in particular, sites like metabattle have always been very inaccurate. Just random builds that random players put there, because they don't know any better.

20 minutes ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Gear has only a marginal effect compared to skill in this game.

Yea, having 75% more stats totally doesn't matter ...

Feel free to run arround in random green gear, if that's what you think.

Edited August 30, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Burial.1958]

Cele is to strong with classes which does have boonspam. Gw 2 was and should be a game where skill matters more than Passives, Stats and Gear.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

There is nothing wrong with Cele.

There is however something wrong with someone's build/skill level if they can't kill a Cele...

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Guirssane.7082 said:

Just remove expertise and concentration, it's that simple. Like it was before. Why should Cele get bonus stats?

Same reason marauder has vitality?

I'm fine with going back to 3 stats only. No special treatment for any gear.

Are you? So delete marauders, yes?

[Zyreva.1078]

27 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Same reason marauder has vitality?

I'm fine with going back to 3 stats only. No special treatment for any gear.

Are you? So delete marauders, yes?

Mara isn't just zerk with vitality slapped on top tho.

And while 4-stat gear tends to be better than 3-stat in most cases - despite the rather small increase in total stats - and it would probably have been better to stick with 3 stats only, it is not compareable at all to the cele situation. Cele was a strong stat combination even before the changes, and it got massive buffs "for free", while everything else remained the same. And if something already strong gets significantly buffed - the outcome can never be balanced.

(Adding a lot of "boon spam hybrid builds" doesn't help either ...)

Edited August 30, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[SleepyBat.9034]

2 hours ago, Guirssane.7082 said:

Just remove expertise and concentration, it's that simple. Like it was before. Why should Cele get bonus stats?

Why not? I think they just need to lower some of the stats, like concentration, expertise, and ferocity.

[Shroud.2307]

Just reduce Cele's overall stats to Exotic level, Exotic's to Rare level, etc. 

Here's a Cele Harbinger build in Ascended.

And here's one in Exotic.

The difference per stat is only 2 and it makes it a pretty big impact on the stats overall. Could even knock it down to a difference of 3 and it'd still be usable, but I'll bet significantly worse on things that aren't already overperforming with it. 

The problem with blanket nerfs like this though, is that it often punishes the niche builds and does little/nothing to the builds that are a problem.
Making a change like this might stop a lot of people from using the stat, but I'll bet Cele Harbi's and Mechanists would still be doing just fine.

Usually I disagree with nerfing a stat, but in Cele's case, I do think it needs to be taken down a peg. And I think the best way to do it is just as I'd said above even if it doesn't kill off the worst offenders. ANet can always make more direct changes later (targeting specific traits/skills, etc. as they should be).

[Dawdler.8521]

2 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

And if something already strong gets significantly buffed - the outcome can never be balanced.

... and yet, dont people still cry buff power when a vast majority of the meta builds are power? 

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 hours ago, Shroud.2307 said:

 ANet can always make more direct changes later (targeting specific traits/skills, etc. as they should be).

 

Band-aids are how we already got to the Feb nerf patch that they are still working on the other side of. No thanks. People need to outline the issue and the offending skills and post those to the class forums. We don't need any more flat nerfs. If this is issues with skills people need to do their homework and post their findings and get those skills/classes adjusted. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

... and yet, dont people still cry buff power when a vast majority of the meta builds are power? 

Don't confuse the number of builds on metabattle with the number of players playing such builds.

Back to topic:
Nerfing/removing stats is a bandaid solution where the true solution is to have a balance team actually balance the skills and traits for the game mode. I know the 50v50v50 scale fights get hard to balance, but hey we are in the mists, and Instabilities do happen 😉

[Svarty.8019]

22 hours ago, Yunari.9065 said:

Anet really stop it Now! WvW Roaming is so hard plagued by this carry Set it sucks! 

Please rephrase the request in such a manner that it involves nothing being done.

[TheGrimm.5624]

6 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Don't confuse the number of builds on metabattle with the number of players playing such builds.

Back to topic:
Nerfing/removing stats is a bandaid solution where the true solution is to have a balance team actually balance the skills and traits for the game mode. I know the 50v50v50 scale fights get hard to balance, but hey we are in the mists, and Instabilities do happen 😉

 

I agree but in a different way. I don't think they will ever have a chance to balance a 50v50v50. Nor can they balance a 1v1 since the amount of combos that either of the ones could choose from might equate to paper vs rock. Hence the reason I say focus on the skills that are the outliners since they would both impact the 50v50v50 and the 1v1. Again as a roamer I am not seeing all other roamers running the same builds and classes and if there was one that was dominating, then shouldn't we see more repeats? Or are people posting here seeing all their 1v1 fights against the same class and gear set? 

[Dawdler.8521]

5 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 Or are people posting here seeing all their 1v1 fights against the same class and gear set? 

Something something fighting identical willbenders builds, identical daredevil builds, identical harbinger builds, identical mechanist builds, etc etc etc.

[coro.3176]

Doubt they will nerf cele.

• Vast majority of players mainly play PvE. Cele is fine in PvE
• WvW uses PvE stats
• Nerfing cele in WvW nerfs it in PvE
• PvE cele players would be sad
• Devs don't want to make vast majority of cele players sad for the sake of a few WvW-ers

Now, could they design some kind of stat-split where stats give different values in WvW vs PvE? maybe? Probably would take 2 years to develop plus 2 years of beta tests. Not worth. They already have systems in place to split skills though. Easier to nerf the skills that benefit too much from boon duration or w/e.

[Zyreva.1078]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

... and yet, dont people still cry buff power when a vast majority of the meta builds are power? 

So what? I don't and nobody else here did, so how does this have any relevancy?

37 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Nerfing/removing stats is a bandaid solution where the true solution is to have a balance team actually balance the skills and traits for the game mode. I know the 50v50v50 scale fights get hard to balance, but hey we are in the mists, and Instabilities do happen 😉

You can't balance cele without adressing it directly, unless you completely destroy each and every hybrid build. Don't think that's the preferable "solution".

I have always been againt nerfs to gear, because in most cases it is not the problem. But it is different with cele, because it simply offers way too much in comparison with any other stat.

8 minutes ago, coro.3176 said:

Doubt they will nerf cele.

• Vast majority of players mainly play PvE. Cele is fine in PvE

It is op in PvE too, but mobs don't care, so nobody complains ...

[Samis.1750]

Cele might be strong paired with some solo WvW roamer builds, but aside from that it is a non issue. It adds more interesting builds to small group WvW play and non-meta large scale fights.  It is not used is virtually all meta WvW builds. You don't balance WvW or change gear based on complaints by roamers.

 

Also, people have made/bought the gear. It would be unfair to pull the rug out from under them. 

[Riba.3271]

14 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

 

Everything points to Cele still being underutilised (only a few builds even require it), despite the buffs.

Well, WvW is mostly blobbers where cele isn't used due to hard split between supports and DPS, and pugs who run random stuff and can't bother with how hard cele is to craft.

 

Roaming/dueling is kind of dead since supply, upgrade and claim buff changes. In addition to this gliding and mounts don't exactly make it easy to roam around.

 

Point is, roamers that care about meta make maybe 5% of the WvW population. Rest run useless oneshot pewpew stuff or blob/guild around.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Riba.3271

[pukish.5784]

In sPvP Rifle Mech is not busted because of stat limitation.Also in sPvP cele was not busted except ancient era.

[Leger.3724]

10 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

So what? I don't and nobody else here did, so how does this have any relevancy?

You can't balance cele without adressing it directly, unless you completely destroy each and every hybrid build. Don't think that's the preferable "solution".

I have always been againt nerfs to gear, because in most cases it is not the problem. But it is different with cele, because it simply offers way too much in comparison with any other stat.

It is op in PvE too, but mobs don't care, so nobody complains ...

 

I agree with this. Gear is such a minor problem if you want to talk about health of the game. I don't think balance is possible to achieve in this game. The core mechanics and fundamental design decisions have created a fun, organic open world pve experience but the game has left a lot to be desired in every other mode. You can get around these design choices in hardcore pve by simply scaling the AI content, adding random mechanics like they do in fractals as you are not limited in what you can do. But the same is not true for spvp or wvw. 

 

It just is what it is. No amount of "if we just nerf this, if we just tweak that" is going to fix the issues with core gameplay. The fix would be a Guild Wars 3 and going back to the drawing board with how you are going to handle combat.

Until there's a GW3 or alternative I'll probably still be in WvW consistently each week and I'll live with the horrible combat system.

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Leger.3724

[Kuma.1503]

Did Cele eat bad Taco Bell?

[TheGrimm.5624]

3 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Did Cele eat bad Taco Bell?

 

Curse you! lol. Taco Bell is a 32 year old addiction at this point. Well to be fair, its the basics they have done well over time. Favorite moment is hitting a Taco Bell and ordering 60 soft tacos at 3 Am on the way to a party and them asking, did you say 60? Pull around.... 🙂 Better food to be had for sure, but some comfort food holds it place. 

[lotus.5672]

play spvp if you want to focus on gameplay and mechanics, wvw is the wacky gamemode with broken stats and where nothing matters

[Aeolus.3615]

1 hour ago, lotus.5672 said:

play spvp if you want to focus on gameplay and mechanics, wvw is the wacky gamemode with broken stats and where nothing matters

Blame Anet for bad gimmicks to carry lamers, Spellbrealker and chrono should be countering the perma boons teams, and Warrior is in uber trash role cause Anet refuses to look at it.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Aeolus.3615