Upcoming Mechanist Changes

[Mell.4873]

Its not in the patch notes but it was mentioned on the livestream as late changes that could make it into the patch.
Here is what they said:

1) Aim assisted rocket will no longer be triggered by Mech, regardless of the trait equipped
This means a nerf to this trait  "Mech Arms: Jade Cannons: Melee attacks become ranged, have an increased chance to critically hit, and apply vulnerability. Unlocks the Mech Command skill Spark Revolver. If you have the Explosives trait Aim-Assisted Rocket, your mech also gains the effect of that trait."

2) No bonus Ferocity on Mech Frames
Basically no ferocity on this trait "Mech Frame: Variable Mass Distributor: Unlocks the Mech Command skill Core Reactor Shot. Your mech gains a greater percentage of your own precision and ferocity stats."

 

This does seem like just the beginning to so more changes (nerfs) of the way

[Bizgurk.5639]

I'm glad they came up with a solution that only affects the Dps variant. Power Alac Mech is unaffected by this.
According to snowcrows it's an estimated loss of ~3750 dps. It could have been much worse...

[Calen.8945]

Oh yes, there will be more nerfs. Once they get to the PvE balance pass, mech is going to be hit hard. At least the power mech.

[Obtena.7952]

Not really a concern ... it's not the power rifle that is the majority of mechanist builds in endgame play and DPS isn't the reason mechanist has high representation to begin with.

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Lynx.9058]

Tbh I didn't even notice my mech proccing  rockets.

 

Hopefully they don't knee jerk and kill the spec because of all the salt around the forums.

[AliamRationem.5172]

27 minutes ago, Lynx.9058 said:

Tbh I didn't even notice my mech proccing  rockets.

 

Hopefully they don't knee jerk and kill the spec because of all the salt around the forums.

You don't have to notice it.  It just generates passive DPS for you with near-perfect uptime.  They'll probably have to shave a little more off this spec in November, but I think this is a great start as it hits pmech specifically without hurting any other specs.

[UNOwen.7132]

1 hour ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

You don't have to notice it.  It just generates passive DPS for you with near-perfect uptime.  They'll probably have to shave a little more off this spec in November, but I think this is a great start as it hits pmech specifically without hurting any other specs.

Realistically it might end up already weak with just those 2 changes. Ive heard that its around 4k damage lost from it, which likely means any other LI build ends up just being better.

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

Realistically it might end up already weak with just those 2 changes. Ive heard that its around 4k damage lost from it, which likely means any other LI build ends up just being better.

4k off the top end is less in practice. I'm sure they'll be keeping an eye on it.

[Atmaweapon.7345]

17 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

4k off the top end is less in practice. I'm sure they'll be keeping an eye on it.

Considering that mech damage is almost entirely automated, it's most definitely going to be 4k off the top end.

[Mell.4873]

7 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Not really a concern ... it's not the power rifle that is the majority of mechanist builds in endgame play and DPS isn't the reason mechanist has high representation to begin with.

Well i hope what you say is true since right now Mech is played for the DPS.

If they are played for a 100% boon uptime support that has a okay DPS (20k) then I'm for that.

[UNOwen.7132]

57 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

4k off the top end is less in practice. I'm sure they'll be keeping an eye on it.

Normally, yes, but this is the passive damage part were talking about. The only way you would not get the full damage loss is if your mech is down, or if your mech is attacking the wrong target. So it probably will close to that in practice too. As for keeping an eye on it, I hope. Though I also wish they would make Mechanist more interesting. 

[Grand Archon Phoenix.2801]

  Power mechanist is really a weak spec (outside of Open World) for dps compared to condi (the mech helps to boost this a little to keep up with other classes), and  heal alacrity is clunky because you have to shadowstep your mech around before pressing buttons, mechanist as a whole is weak in wvw with huge tradeoffs between dps/support/ and survivability, and completely useless in pvp.  Most of the complaints i see against mechanist are coming from people that 1. Don't understand the class, 2. don't understand the class they are currently playing in comparison and/or mechanics, 3. Think that golem dps meters are the gospel at what a dps spec will do in a pug. 

  So while these potential nerfs are hitting an already weak spec, hopefully there will be a trade-off to compensate giving better utility in other parts of the game that matter.

[samsar.9152]

To be honest I don't understand these nerfs. Easy to play dps for those who don't like  builds with "piano play" rotations and also power mechanist is super new player friendly while piano play core kit engineer can be frustrating to play. 

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Grand Archon Phoenix.2801 said:

  Power mechanist is really a weak spec (outside of Open World) for dps compared to condi (the mech helps to boost this a little to keep up with other classes), and  heal alacrity is clunky because you have to shadowstep your mech around before pressing buttons, mechanist as a whole is weak in wvw with huge tradeoffs between dps/support/ and survivability, and completely useless in pvp.  Most of the complaints i see against mechanist are coming from people that 1. Don't understand the class, 2. don't understand the class they are currently playing in comparison and/or mechanics, 3. Think that golem dps meters are the gospel at what a dps spec will do in a pug. 

  So while these potential nerfs are hitting an already weak spec, hopefully there will be a trade-off to compensate giving better utility in other parts of the game that matter.

Your info is out of date.  Condi mech was nerfed and power mech was buffed.  Along with its other advantages (i.e. rifle, power burst) pmech is the better spec.

To say that pmech is "weak" is simply delusional.

[AliamRationem.5172]

38 minutes ago, samsar.9152 said:

To be honest I don't understand these nerfs. Easy to play dps for those who don't like  builds with "piano play" rotations and also power mechanist is super new player friendly while piano play core kit engineer can be frustrating to play. 

So this is going to make it unplayable? 

[Alcatraznc.3869]

We'll have to see how much DPS loss the nerf will do but Mech not having any ferocity, it will be extremely laughable if it reaches the DPS of support build

[Grand Archon Phoenix.2801]

8 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Your info is out of date.  Condi mech was nerfed and power mech was buffed.  Along with its other advantages (i.e. rifle, power burst) pmech is the better spec.

To say that pmech is "weak" is simply delusional.

condi > pmech  , i'm not saying either is bad as i play both, just that pmech is weaker then condi for a lot of fights, it's just outside of open world content, power builds are better for open world and fractals where stuff dies quickly,  condi is better for raids where bosses have enough health between phases for conditions to ramp up, unless it's a boss that strips conditions. still mechanist as a whole mostly garbage in wvw against focus bust in wvw unless playing bunker, then you have no burst, and is weak in survivability as dps with lack of utility compared to the other specializations, and useless in pvp. golem benchmarks are not realistic, other then providing an example of how your rng rotations should be done.

[SentriX.3209]

They're not nerfing it because it's easy to play but because it's ranged, has the highest DPS and with a stacked tookit. Basically an all in one package.

 

Don't worry it will be fine. Fully ranged and benching at 34k with a simple playstyle, what's not to love.

 

I'll still play my rifle mech when I want to auto pilot content and turn my brain off.

[Tiviana.2650]

So then mech has no power build and will be bottom of the barrel ..again . People realize mech dps power build was lowest dps of all the specs when it came out.

[AliamRationem.5172]

15 minutes ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

So then mech has no power build and will be bottom of the barrel ..again . People realize mech dps power build was lowest dps of all the specs when it came out.

You realize it's currently one of the top DPS specs in almost every encounter now though, right? 

[Deepcuts.9740]

1 hour ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

You realize it's currently one of the top DPS specs in almost every encounter now though, right? 

Now, but after how many years of rock bottom again? Do I hear 9?

And yes, "one of the top DPS", not the only one

[Lynx.9058]

3 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

You realize it's currently one of the top DPS specs in almost every encounter now though, right? 

Except it isn't.

It doesn't even rank in the top 15.  Sure, it's easy to play, and does pretty well for a low intensity build, but it's not beating other specs at benchmarks like everyone is claiming.

News flash:  The vast majority of players are casuals.  The vast majority of players are not particularly skilled.  The vast majority of players cannot maintain a complex rotation.  Give them a class that can keep up with a simpler playstyle, and suddenly the elites are feeling threatened.

 

Everyone complaining about mechanist needs to see some comments from the other side.  These are taken from reddit comments:
 

Quote

"having played an engie since the beginning, I still find it a challenge. The mech build is the best of all of them but it is still tough. Autoattacks do not cut it, I have to resort to Bomb kit 1 for the best dps. 3400 dps I can crawl thru carefully to get to areas. I wish I could do the 14k dps auto that some streamers claim to be able to do. I think it's sometimes just smoke and mirrors to look good. I just wish my mesmer could do 3400 dps, they would be fun sorta"

 

Quote

"With the Xyonon build in all Exotics, with no food or utility and no outside buffs, but subtituting a Rifle for the Mace/Shield, I am mostly doing 2.2-2.6k DPS autoattacking with the mech helping. I had spikes of almost 8k on some fights when the crit gods favored me, or if I could align foes to take advantage of piercing. I ran around in PoF picking fights that had caused me trouble on other characters and generally they were really easy. Then I tried to solo a Bounty and that went hilariously badly. I will need to try harder and "git gud" before I can manage those."

I get the feeling that streamers and posters with an agenda are viewing top-geared mechanist builds as the standard, when that's clearly not the case.  When you have some posters running rampant crying that "Mechanist autoattack is doing 36k DPS!", while the vast majority of actual players aren't even getting half of that while obviously working in more than just AA spam, it creates a false narrative, and these people scream the loudest on the forums in order to get their way, where the devs and reps see this as valid feedback.

"The squeaky wheel gets the grease", as the old saying goes, doesn't really apply when the wheel isn't squeaking nearly as much as the neighbor is claiming.

[AliamRationem.5172]

10 minutes ago, Lynx.9058 said:

Except it isn't.

It doesn't even rank in the top 15.  Sure, it's easy to play, and does pretty well for a low intensity build, but it's not beating other specs at benchmarks like everyone is claiming.

News flash:  The vast majority of players are casuals.  The vast majority of players are not particularly skilled.  The vast majority of players cannot maintain a complex rotation.  Give them a class that can keep up with a simpler playstyle, and suddenly the elites are feeling threatened.

 

Everyone complaining about mechanist needs to see some comments from the other side.  These are taken from reddit comments:
 

 

I get the feeling that streamers and posters with an agenda are viewing top-geared mechanist builds as the standard, when that's clearly not the case.  When you have some posters running rampant crying that "Mechanist autoattack is doing 36k DPS!", while the vast majority of actual players aren't even getting half of that while obviously working in more than just AA spam, it creates a false narrative, and these people scream the loudest on the forums in order to get their way, where the devs and reps see this as valid feedback.

"The squeaky wheel gets the grease", as the old saying goes, doesn't really apply when the wheel isn't squeaking nearly as much as the neighbor is claiming.

I didn't say anything about benchmarks.  I said encounters, as in actual gameplay.  The spec overperforms.  That's why it's being nerfed.

[Ashen.2907]

3 hours ago, Lynx.9058 said:

Except it isn't.

It doesn't even rank in the top 15.  Sure, it's easy to play, and does pretty well for a low intensity build, but it's not beating other specs at benchmarks like everyone is claiming.

News flash:  The vast majority of players are casuals.  The vast majority of players are not particularly skilled.  The vast majority of players cannot maintain a complex rotation.  Give them a class that can keep up with a simpler playstyle, and suddenly the elites are feeling threatened.

 

Everyone complaining about mechanist needs to see some comments from the other side.  These are taken from reddit comments:
 

 

I get the feeling that streamers and posters with an agenda are viewing top-geared mechanist builds as the standard, when that's clearly not the case.  When you have some posters running rampant crying that "Mechanist autoattack is doing 36k DPS!", while the vast majority of actual players aren't even getting half of that while obviously working in more than just AA spam, it creates a false narrative, and these people scream the loudest on the forums in order to get their way, where the devs and reps see this as valid feedback.

"The squeaky wheel gets the grease", as the old saying goes, doesn't really apply when the wheel isn't squeaking nearly as much as the neighbor is claiming.

Those numbers are not physically possible for a reasonably traited rifle power mech using dps oriented (not even ideal) exotic gear unless the player purposefully stops attacking for extended periods. 

[draxynnic.3719]

42 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Those numbers are not physically possible for a reasonably traited rifle power mech using dps oriented (not even ideal) exotic gear unless the player purposefully stops attacking for extended periods. 

Not against the golem, anyway. Did the experiment myself. Might be possible against real opponents with higher armour.

 

Furthermore, the claim that it isn't in the top fifteen is 1. inaccurate (it's #14), and 2. misleading because most of what's above it is either only above it by a small amount (while being harder to play in practice) or condition-based. If you compare to other power specs, it's #5. Soulbeast and virtuoso only beat it by a few hundred DPS. Bladesworn and deadeye have noticeably higher DPS, but are also less mobile and more susceptible to being disrupted by mechanics.