Upcoming Adjustments to Vindicator Endurance Generation

[oscuro.9720]

Seems like good changes. I’m not very familiar with the more technical aspects of revenant/Vindi so I can’t really say any more than that, but it’s great to have quick updates that are well communicated 🙂 

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

8 hours ago, JaxLeo.7912 said:

and we are just gonna ignore the thief slaughter and sweep it under the rug as usual

you are just as incompetent as whoever was in charge of warrior on the june patch

As a thief main I agree, but I also think derogatory comments are also not a good way of helping the cause.

I have made more than one post talking about the shroud nerfs being too harsh for PvE. In my opinion the new shroud ratios makes open world solo content feel awkward. The same goes with the massive nerfs to invigorating precision months ago.

Organized high end content isn't as bad, but still it takes the fun out of going into shroud if it's going to burst suddenly. In my opinion both of those changes are examples that raise the skill floor for new people who want to get into thief. In my opinion shroud should have different numbers in PvE compared to PvP/WvW.

@CMC Nerfs to PvE because of PvP or WvW are looked down highly amongst thief players. It causes a great deal of frustration.

Edited October 6, 2022 by ZeroTheRuler.7415
clarity

[GenerationX.9178]

I honestly dont mind the two dodges, but instead of fixing skills and traits I would have looked

at the triats first. please revisit the fix....the skills that give you endurance  require you hit quit lot targets to be 

effect I see the problem in wvw zergs. look that middle row of traits and make stuff like Reaver's Rage instant

to make vindi have access to stability because it will help lot...I dont think energy meld is nessary on vindi it

feels slow and clunky and just gives some endrance. i really hope you read this ive played with vindi for while and 

dodge felt terrible but I think adding dodge was great just need look at traits that were based around 1 dodge and just 

rework. thanks!

[shinvold.3618]

First, I'm Korean, so please understand that I'm not used to English expressions.

 

I am not in the game industry, but I'm speaking from the perspective of 10-year experienced PM of web/app service with millions of active users.

 

This balance patch is the worst patch I've ever been through.
It's not about result of balancing, it's a question of the QA process.

 

Did you write a TC for the content you announced 3 weeks ago and do the actual test?

Each class has full of problems that can be noticed in just 10 minutes of testing.
This means that the balance team only changed the numbers without going through the basic testing process.

Regardless of the level of balancing, it is an unacceptable level of work for a company that is in charge of live services.

 

If I were the head of ANET, I would have rolled back the patch right away with an apology or posted a hotfix within an hour of release.

 

You have to feel responsible for thousands of users who have disappointed with the long wait.

You have to be shamed by what made the day for thousands of customers a bad experience.

Edited October 6, 2022 by shinvold.3618

[the krytan assassin.9235]

Anet: we want to give vindi 2 dodges instead of 1. 

 

Me: sure Lets just double up the endurance cap to 200.

 

Anet: ok Lets reduce cost of dodges by 50% and add another dodge to it, we need to nerf the damage output on the dodge due to its new frequency. Oh oops i completely forgot that endurance gain traits will mess up the dodge frequency. Lets nerf those traits into the ground.

Oh oops we basically gave them a worse Dodge now with almost the same cost. Lets boost up the damage a little bit again. Some traits and skills will need some rework to, they dont feel impactfull after the nerfs anymore, so Lets switch up some traits.

Also we've heard that vindi is still a Kangaroo in PvE, but we like to point out this is a PvP/WvW patch not PvE so we'll be adjusting this the 29th of november. Just make sure you're not getting to used to the new vindi playstyle, or just don't play it at all, because nobody plays vindi anyways. We can't possibly think of a possible way this can result in a backlash of the community when we take away their new toy that they've been playing with for upcoming 2 months. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by the krytan assassin.9235

[Zaret.1450]

10 hours ago, MaLong.2079 said:

Is it me or those reductions look like they were selected without much thought or even testing?

Well i dont think they could test much, but its true vindi was jumping too much, for me, id like those middle traits reworked, maybe focusing on the aliance legends, and one trait to gain endurance with the jumps so a jumpy build is viable but not broken, as for energy meld, please give us a combo attack of arch and vick

[Zaret.1450]

In fact you could kinda make energy mend a legend related skill, like, you use skills from a legend and charge a bar under it or the skill itself, if you charge say arche skill energy mend becomes a dmg skill, while vick makes it a healing in an area, ventary could cleanse, shiro could be something jade wind related, dwarf maybe some giant hammer bonk, and mallynx some kinda curse or smth, and if you use both arch and vick you summon both and they do the attack they did against shiro.

Dont think it will happen but would it be cool?

[TasteOfChaos.2198]

can you please balance celestial harbinger? the torment spam and boons on top of using carapace is insanely op.

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

with vidicator having 2 dodges now, i think i agree that the master major traits need to be scrapped and totaly reworked into something unrelated to endurance...

Edited October 6, 2022 by Forgotten Legend.9281

[jaif.3518]

I appreciate the move to 2 crisper dodges from 1 slow dodge. It feels better.

I'm disappointed that the necessary trait adjustments are being doing reactively, rather than proactively with QA.  If it was one or two missed items I would be more lenient, but all of us saw this stuff coming, so you should have too.

 

To echo someone above and add - thanks for the memes, it was fun, but you shouldn't have let it happen.

[Myror.7521]

@BlackBakery.6153 those Bugs are known specialy the bloody roar one. Last one is said for month now cause its just the same bug/issue in PvE. But yet anet seem to not want to fix it

[Knamliss.9148]

18 hours ago, Nawrotex.9521 said:

Specter is fine. Stop overreacting peepos. Learn to avoid unnecessary dmg.

It's more just the principle? You can't prefice the specter section with it being too strong in competitive. Then not split the biggest change between game modes. Support specter already sucked because the first column of traits are embarrassingly bad. 

[Zaret.1450]

Ok please lets something be clear, asking people to be good, to dont sk, to evade everything etc etc, all that things people say, make no sense when mec exists and does tons of dmg with little rotation, the same way some Low Intensity builds do more smg than dificult builds.

I agree that people need to learn to dodge, improve, and that an inmortal build is too much, but please dont go around saying people sk, or saying "be good" and all those things.

You could say, spectre as example, spectre does good dmg, has movility and adding a shroud makes it too strong so it needed a nerf, that is much better than, " stop criing and be good at the game".

[Terrorhuz.4695]

What is this? TIMELY UPDATES?

Cal Cohen you're on fire. We're loving this.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

22 hours ago, Cal Cohen.2358 said:

Hi, everyone,

In addition to fixing bugs in today’s hotfix, we made some adjustments to vindicator’s endurance generation in WvW:

• Reaver's Curse: Reduced endurance gain from 4 to 1 in WvW only.
• Tree Song: Reduced endurance gain from 2 to 1 in WvW only.

 

Due to the timing around hotfix builds, we were unable to prepare a larger set of changes for today’s update. We’ll be following up with another hotfix tomorrow with additional changes for all game modes:

• Invigorating Dismissal: Reduced endurance granted from 3 to 2 in WvW only.
• Song of Arboreum: Reduced bonus vigor effectiveness from 50% to 25% in PvE and WvW, and from 50% to 15% in PvP.
• Energy Meld: Reduced endurance gain from 25 to 15 in PvP only.
• Tree Song: Reduced endurance gain from 2 to 1 in PvP only.
• Scavenger Burst: Reduced endurance gain from 5 to 2 in PvP only.
• Reaver's Curse: Reduced endurance gain from 5 to 2 in PvE and PvP.

 

After tomorrow’s hotfix we’ll continue to keep a close eye on the effectiveness of vindicator and will make further adjustments as needed in future updates.

 

Thanks,
Cal “cmc” Cohen
Skills and Balance Lead
 

 

Thanks for the quick response on this, 

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Can't catch every build during testing. Thank you for the quick adjustments. 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Eddbopkins.2630

[Master Ketsu.4569]

18 hours ago, GenerationX.9178 said:

Reaver's Rage getting fixed can you least make it instant? honestly energy meld is useless just remove it...

 

Reavers Rage being instant would actually be kind of broken because then you could use it in the middle of other casts for massive spike damage. So no, they can't do that.

Anyways these hotfixes seem about right, since it has two dodges at 50e now it makes sense to also cut the endurance regen traits by half. The only thing that is annoying is that energy meld should really be instant cast at this point because at 10e for 15ed it's going to be a kind of bad skill to use.

[GenerationX.9178]

I want it more for the stability @Master Ketsu.4569

 

[Fan Didly Tastic.7169]

13 hours ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

Anet: we want to give vindi 2 dodges instead of 1. 

 

Me: sure Lets just double up the endurance cap to 200.

I second this. If everything was balanced around a dodge cost of 100, then having 200 endurance to give us 2 would have been way easier to balance for, and likely even at this point, will be.

Not suggesting it as a hotfix but definitely something absolutely worth looking at.

[captrowdy.9561]

14 hours ago, shinvold.3618 said:

First, I'm Korean, so please understand that I'm not used to English expressions.

 

I am not in the game industry, but I'm speaking from the perspective of 10-year experienced PM of web/app service with millions of active users.

 

This balance patch is the worst patch I've ever been through.
It's not about result of balancing, it's a question of the QA process.

 

Did you write a TC for the content you announced 3 weeks ago and do the actual test?

Each class has full of problems that can be noticed in just 10 minutes of testing.
This means that the balance team only changed the numbers without going through the basic testing process.

Regardless of the level of balancing, it is an unacceptable level of work for a company that is in charge of live services.

 

If I were the head of ANET, I would have rolled back the patch right away with an apology or posted a hotfix within an hour of release.

 

You have to feel responsible for thousands of users who have disappointed with the long wait.

You have to be shamed by what made the day for thousands of customers a bad experience.

It’s a video game bro. It’s not that serious 

[shinvold.3618]

3 hours ago, captrowdy.9561 said:

It’s a video game bro. It’s not that serious 

It seems like your attitude is ignoring the video game industry and all its users.

 

The balance team is getting paid for this.

As a professional working for a company, you must be responsible for your work and results.

 

Why do we have to waste months and days on a way of working that is inferior to that of amateurs?

We are paying customers to 'enjoy' the game, not beta-testers.

If there is no responsibility for the outcome, what kind of customer would use that service or product?

Edited October 7, 2022 by shinvold.3618

[Angesombre.4630]

The problem with the vindicator is that we didn't have a lot of time to test it and there was only a small change in the 2 beta's so we can try what suits us best and longer now.

And it must be said that the gameplay is special between the 2 legends that don't really have any link between them except the story is not easy to manage and the jumping mechanics.

On paper the alliance was maybe good but in the game it's not so good. So those who play vindicator don't play with the alliance except in heal support.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Angesombre.4630

[Nimon.7840]

21 hours ago, Ken Yuudachi.9807 said:

Still no specter changing. I guess you don't even know about the thief huh? Balancing a class in an opinionated way. How sad is it?

 

What's wrong with specter?

It was op in spvp as far as I know. And in PvE it was extremely strong (mainly the alac version), just noone played it. Turns out that having a healing trait/ skill that doesn't need you to invest in healing power is pretty strong. And if you re complaining because of pvp - you know there's thief has other specs as well?

Or should I now complain, that scourge is unplayable in pvp as well?

 

19 hours ago, TasteOfChaos.2198 said:

can you please balance celestial harbinger? the torment spam and boons on top of using carapace is insanely op.

Whats wrong with it? That's mainly talking about wvw roaming right? I do have a problem with cele harbinger as well, but for different reasons. 

It's not that hard to kill. It's still Necro after all.

 

I do have a problem with harbinger in wvw: that it's basically only playable with cele gear. Everything else is basically trash. For example there isn't a single good power build. Yes you can still one shot people, but basically all the times you don't land that one shot, or the enemy plays cele with Perma protection, you automatically loose/ get one shot yourself.

[Pheex.8932]

I just don't enjoy vindicator anymore since the double dodge with lower damage. It plays clunky and all the satisfaction of nailing that one massive slam is gone. 😭

[captrowdy.9561]

15 hours ago, shinvold.3618 said:

It seems like your attitude is ignoring the video game industry and all its users.

 

The balance team is getting paid for this.

As a professional working for a company, you must be responsible for your work and results.

 

Why do we have to waste months and days on a way of working that is inferior to that of amateurs?

We are paying customers to 'enjoy' the game, not beta-testers.

If there is no responsibility for the outcome, what kind of customer would use that service or product?

They released a patch the next day. It’s not like the servers where down for a week. We don’t know how much time it takes to program these changes or whatever. The devs being able to go home on time should be more important then a slightly annoying class problem.