Why are commanders demanding no trinkets in lab farm?

[Veprovina.4876]

I've been running Labyrinth for years now, i've never seen this...

And i've never experienced one single player one shotting any mob, be it random mobs in the labyrinth or door mobs, let alone bosses... And this seems to be the "argument" i've seen in LFG. Most cite no DPS gear as requirement, and one shotting mobs as to why. But then... Don't you need a certain damage treshold to even tag a mob? Wouldn't non dps gear be a detriment actually?

This year every LFG has some wild crazy requirements for farming, none of which are enjoyable, like, what happened?

Does this somehow get you 0,003% more loot or what?

 

And before anyone tells me "well you don't have to join those squads", i'm not here to complain how they do things, i don't care, i run my own squads, i'm just wondering what the deal is because i've never seen this before. I'm not here to tell anyone how to run their lab farm.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

Removing the trinkets will not crush your build, you will only get weaker. If you use special runes & sigils for farming, those remain untouched. The idea is to lower the damage-output, so everyone in the train gets their hits for the loot.

In the (EU) maps, I have been so far, the powercreep is insane. If you happen to be among the top 5 players in front of the train, it is already tough to hit certain mobs before they die. The squads are currently made of 20-30 people, which means the ones behind only see a fraction of the NPCs.

The no-trinket-rule is something of a no-brainer. It works for raw DPS builds, but hybrid, custom and support-builds will not face the same consequences.

Two years ago I was in one squad, where a commander strictly demanded to drop trinkets, EVERYONE. I kindly told them I run full Magi (=  precision/vitality/healing). They told me to drop my trickets or leave! xD

[Randulf.7614]

It’s not the first year this has happened. It’s to reduce dps and thus allow for maximum tagging. Been seeing it for a few years since PoF 
 

I ignore it and usually run more casual labyrinth runs. It’s supposed to be a bit of fun, but people go full on hardcore in there just for a few extra silver and gold and I’m not interested in that and I’m certainly removing all my gear just for some festival bags - esp where half the loot has been stripped out this year

Edited October 20, 2022 by Randulf.7614

[Freya.9075]

It’s to make sure all players get their loot. If everyone runs around with full damage the players who are behind the front line won’t be able to target the mobs. 
 

basically it’s a way to be kind to other players by letting everyone target most mobs while running. 

[Cyninja.2954]

37 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

I've been running Labyrinth for years now, i've never seen this...

It's been a thing for years especially in more organized and optimized groups.

37 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

And i've never experienced one single player one shotting any mob, be it random mobs in the labyrinth or door mobs, let alone bosses... And this seems to be the "argument" i've seen in LFG. Most cite no DPS gear as requirement, and one shotting mobs as to why. But then... Don't you need a certain damage treshold to even tag a mob? Wouldn't non dps gear be a detriment actually?

The damage threshold is very low to tag. 1 auto attack on a naked only weapon wearing thief on short-bow low enough in fact. You are correct in your assumption that most players won't 1-shot any mob. What you fail to consider is the 29 other players following the tag.

The idea behind removing the trinkets is:

it's a compromise between to much effort and enough damage reduction to let anyone besides the first 2-3 people tag.

37 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

This year every LFG has some wild crazy requirements for farming, none of which are enjoyable, like, what happened?

Does this somehow get you 0,003% more loot or what?

It actually gets a ton of more loot if you consider that with max damage only 2-4 people tag enemies. In this case it's more loot across the entire squad.

37 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

 

And before anyone tells me "well you don't have to join those squads", i'm not here to complain how they do things, i don't care, i run my own squads, i'm just wondering what the deal is because i've never seen this before. I'm not here to tell anyone how to run their lab farm.

You are free to run your own squads. Most players also don't max magic find or run ideal paths. Eventually it all adds up and some are more efficient than others but in the ends its about finding enough players that want to play the same way.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Danikat.8537]

I don't think anyone is going to one-shot mobs in the Labyrinth, but the ideal is that everyone in the squad will get to hit them before they die, and there can be 50 people in a squad, so even if it takes 5 people to kill them that's still most of the squad missing out. Add in that a lot of people use AoEs to tag as many mobs as possible and a minority of people doing what would be average damage in the rest of the game can seriously impact the rest of the squad.

Removing trinkets is an easy way to balance that out. You don't lose any functions - you have the same skills, signets, runes etc. but a big chunk of your stats are gone, which for most players will lower their damage. Especially for newer level 80's who are more likely to have exotic weapons and armour and ascended trinkets because they're quicker to get.

In practice of course it depends on your build. Some years removing my trinkets would have done very little to affect my damage because I was using a mix of stat combinations and most of the damage was on my armour and weapons, so I kept the trinkets and swapped out my weapons and some armour pieces for lower level/rarity ones.

You can decide for yourself what's the best ways to tailor your character/build to the Labyrinth (and what's worth doing based on how much farming you plan to do). But asking everyone to remove trinkets is an easy thing for commanders to request and an easy thing for everyone to do if they don't know all the details of their build.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Personally usually just run support/tank gear if doing an organized run. 

[Gehenna.3625]

1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said:

In practice of course it depends on your build. Some years removing my trinkets would have done very little to affect my damage because I was using a mix of stat combinations and most of the damage was on my armour and weapons, so I kept the trinkets and swapped out my weapons and some armour pieces for lower level/rarity ones.
 

Yeah it could affect your build in the sense that there are builds that rely on procs like crits, but in a zerg, being a dps, that doesn't really matter I would think.

Still, having 5 out of 6 legendary trinkets, it's inconvenient to re-equip them, set their stats anew and replace the infusions. Perhaps not a big inconvenience but there it is. Maybe those equipment slots will finally get a use from me lol.

[Danikat.8537]

13 minutes ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

Personally usually just run support/tank gear if doing an organized run. 

That's what I'm doing this year, I'm using a very tanky guardian who is very hard to kill but doesn't do much damage. Trying to kill even the normal enemies on my own takes a while.
 

5 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Yeah it could affect your build in the sense that there are builds that rely on procs like crits, but in a zerg, being a dps, that doesn't really matter I would think.

Still, having 5 out of 6 legendary trinkets, it's inconvenient to re-equip them, set their stats anew and replace the infusions. Perhaps not a big inconvenience but there it is. Maybe those equipment slots will finally get a use from me lol.

Yeah I can imagine it would be more annoying if you have legendaries, since you'd have to redo the stats. If you have a spare equipment template that would be an easy fix, just make everything the same except trinkets.

In previous years when I was farming the Labyrinth a lot I'd pick a character to do it and customise their whole build for it, not buying new equipment but changing traits, skills and equipment to focus on tagging but not necessarily doing a lot of damage, and then CC for bosses (I always do the 'all doors' groups). But it's probably not worth doing that unless you like theory crafting or you're planning on a lot of farming and have characters to spare for assigning to one thing.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

21 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

That's what I'm doing this year, I'm using a very tanky guardian who is very hard to kill but doesn't do much damage. Trying to kill even the normal enemies on my own takes a while.

yeah I've been the commander for casual runs as a pure support firebrand in past years

[AliamRationem.5172]

4 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

I've been running Labyrinth for years now, i've never seen this...

And i've never experienced one single player one shotting any mob, be it random mobs in the labyrinth or door mobs, let alone bosses... And this seems to be the "argument" i've seen in LFG. Most cite no DPS gear as requirement, and one shotting mobs as to why. But then... Don't you need a certain damage treshold to even tag a mob? Wouldn't non dps gear be a detriment actually?

This year every LFG has some wild crazy requirements for farming, none of which are enjoyable, like, what happened?

Does this somehow get you 0,003% more loot or what?

 

And before anyone tells me "well you don't have to join those squads", i'm not here to complain how they do things, i don't care, i run my own squads, i'm just wondering what the deal is because i've never seen this before. I'm not here to tell anyone how to run their lab farm.

Is this really that hard to figure out?  If everyone runs around in DPS gear then the mobs die too quickly and everyone gets fewer tags.  The threshold for tagging is very low.  You don't have to deal a lot of damage to get loot, so it's better for everyone if you run with a low damage build (preferably something with some mobility, range, and good tagging capability for your own sake).

[Veprovina.4876]

Ah, so it's all a bags/hour kind of thing!

Ok, thanks all for the responses!

 

Didn't think DPS gear had such an impact.

I perfer running chill farms myself, but to each their own. 🙂 

[Wolfb.7025]

15 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Ah, so it's all a bags/hour kind of thing!

Ok, thanks all for the responses!

 

Didn't think DPS gear had such an impact.

I perfer running chill farms myself, but to each their own. 🙂 

I guess so, but it's not gonna be chill for you if many players instantly kills the enemies with 3-4 hits before you get to tag them.

[Veprovina.4876]

42 minutes ago, Wolfb.7025 said:

I guess so, but it's not gonna be chill for you if many players instantly kills the enemies with 3-4 hits before you get to tag them.

"Chill" means no one cares, we run around, tag whatever, kill bosses, open every door. You get what you get without worrying about tagging.

What Chill isn't is caring about how many loot bags you get. It's just kind of a zen circular farm thing and i like it like that.

 

Besides, enforcing this rule on people who just don't give a crap about it and will just do whatever they want anyway is the opposite of chill. I mean, what am i gonna do if 20 uber DPS people show up, run in front of everyone and kill all mobs, open all dors before the rest come and don't even respond to me asking them? Kick them out of the squad? I mean, yay, they're still on the map.

Thankfully those are all the exceptions and whenever i ran a chill farm, most people were there for the chat/zen thing so i guess we're lucky in that regard.

But as soon as you put rules and gold/h thing, you'll always get people like i described, that don't follow them and are in it only for themselves so they can get more than others. 

You surprisingly (or not) don't get such people when you run a chill farm.

 

I'm not aiming to get rich from the lab farm, nor am i going to spend all day on it, or bother people who join about removing trinkets. Everyone can do what they want.

[Wolfb.7025]

13 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Besides, enforcing this rule on people who just don't give a crap about it and will just do whatever they want anyway is the opposite of chill. I mean, what am i gonna do if 20 uber DPS people show up, run in front of everyone and kill all mobs, open all dors before the rest come and don't even respond to me asking them? Kick them out of the squad? I mean, yay, they're still on the map.

The thing is even though you want your farm to be chill, you're gonna be ruining the experience to potentially other 49 people in the squad, it's etiquette, chill or not.

[Veprovina.4876]

16 minutes ago, Wolfb.7025 said:

The thing is even though you want your farm to be chill, you're gonna be ruining the experience to potentially other 49 people in the squad, it's etiquette, chill or not.

Sorry, what are you talking about? How am i ruining the experience of 50 people by running a chill farm?

[Linken.6345]

14 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Sorry, what are you talking about? How am i ruining the experience of 50 people by running a chill farm?

You kill stuff to fast and they dont get to damage and loot it.

[Veprovina.4876]

8 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

You kill stuff to fast and they dont get to damage and loot it.

But i don't, i gave an example of how i can't control people who do.

I can put "please remove trinkets" in the lab farm description, but if someone runs a full dps build, runs in front of everyone and ignores everything, how am i the bad guy here? I can kick them out of the squad, and they'll still cling to tag and do that...

That's what i was talking about.

Also - the description is chill run, meaning, whoever joins has pretty much a clear idea that his is NOT super optimised and they won't be getting as much bags as super optimised farms.

So, i fail to see how the experience is ruined for those people who didn't expect anything in the first place.

[Freya.9075]

29 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

But i don't, i gave an example of how i can't control people who do.

I can put "please remove trinkets" in the lab farm description, but if someone runs a full dps build, runs in front of everyone and ignores everything, how am i the bad guy here? I can kick them out of the squad, and they'll still cling to tag and do that...

That's what i was talking about.

Thing is, this is not about you. It's about all players. Making squads with these requirements works. That's why they do it. I see huge difference in these maps when it comes to trinkets. Sure there will be players who ignore "no trinket" requirements and you can't do anything about it. But the beauty of gw2 and the community is that most players who join do it. And that's helpful when it comes to farming so everyone gets their loot since they do not think "me, myself and the lootbags"

 

33 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

So, i fail to see how the experience is ruined for those people who didn't expect anything in the first place.

When you join a lab farm you do expect loot. Do you really think they join chill lab runs and not expect to get loot from it? 

[Veprovina.4876]

4 hours ago, Freya.9075 said:

Thing is, this is not about you. It's about all players. Making squads with these requirements works. That's why they do it. I see huge difference in these maps when it comes to trinkets. Sure there will be players who ignore "no trinket" requirements and you can't do anything about it. But the beauty of gw2 and the community is that most players who join do it. And that's helpful when it comes to farming so everyone gets their loot since they do not think "me, myself and the lootbags"

 

When you join a lab farm you do expect loot. Do you really think they join chill lab runs and not expect to get loot from it? 

Oh my god it's like talking to a wall...

 

Ok... I make a squad, i put reqruiements in "no trinkets, no dps, chill farm let's all get loot"...

20 full DPS players join among 30 that removed their trinkets in a 50 man squad.

The 20 DPS players run ahead and DPS everythign before the rest of us can get to them in time.

 

How is this my fault? What can i do to those players to make them stop and be fair to everyone?

 

And yes, people join chill squads for the company because loot is not in question, you're going to get loot either way, even if people don't adhere to the rules, just not the "optimised" amount. Some people perfer low stress environments. That's why chill farms exist.

You're not magically going to not get lootbags, if anything, doors stay open for a while, you're gonna tag mobs, no DPS can burst those down that fast. So it's not about expecting to not get loot, you're gonna get loot. It's about running in a low stress environment as opposed to super optimised farms.

Nobody is being wronged here.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Veprovina.4876

[Weindrasi.3805]

Eh. I'd just ignore them. I'll do the basic "no mounts, no opening doors before commander, no knockbacks" politeness, but if a commander demands anything as specific as 'remove all trinkets or else' I just quit reading chat. If they rage-quit and leave, another less-touchy commander will tag up within 2 minutes. So... *shrug*

Edited October 21, 2022 by Weindrasi.3805

[Freya.9075]

3 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Oh my god it's like talking to a wall...

 

Ok... I make a squad, i put reqruiements in "no trinkets, no dps, chill farm let's all get loot"...

20 full DPS players join among 30 that removed their trinkets in a 50 man squad.

The 20 DPS players run ahead and DPS everythign before the rest of us can get to them in time.

 

How is this my fault? What can i do to those players to make them stop and be fair to everyone?

 

And yes, people join chill squads for the company because loot is not in question, you're going to get loot either way, even if people don't adhere to the rules, just not the "optimised" amount. Some people perfer low stress environments. That's why chill farms exist.

You're not magically going to not get lootbags, if anything, doors stay open for a while, you're gonna tag mobs, no DPS can burst those down that fast. So it's not about expecting to not get loot, you're gonna get loot. It's about running in a low stress environment as opposed to super optimised farms.

Nobody is being wronged here.

Where did I say players not removing trinkets is your fault? Or that someone is getting wronged?  I fail to see your point here.
 

Trinkets are not about the doors, but when you run between them. Removing trinkets does not make a run more stressful or super optimized. Some of the most chill and relaxing runs I join is without trinkets since everyone gets what they want. And when everyone gets what they want the chat gets better too since they are happy. 
 

You can make squads without trinket removal requirements if you want. Nothing wrong about that, I’m just pointing out why so many players prefer runs without them and why it’s so popular since you fail to understand why it is. It’s not about anyone being wronged or that the squad leader somehow magically makes everyone listen. It’s not even about being super organized. It’s about the community and thinking of other players. 

There will always be someone who doesn’t listen in a 50 man squad. I have not joined any “no trinket” squads where the front line kills all mobs fast. Only in squads where there are no requirements at all. And many players find that annoying and want a chill squad where they can actually get loot. so they go for squads with no trinkets. Neither group is wrong or bad. It’s all about preferences.
 

Perhaps you should read what I said one more time. You saying you’re talking to a wall is quite ironic here. 

[Zaret.1450]

Lab mobs are weak, and the scuads usually have +20, + 30 members, so just tagging with a full dmg build can makebthem loose 1/3 of their lives, without trinkets youll do around 1/8 or so, so more taggs and more people get loot

[Swoo.5079]

Why do you need squads for the labyrinth?

The jade mech will farm everything for you...

[Luthan.5236]

Just now, Swoo.5079 said:

Why do you need squads for the labyrinth?

The jade mech will farm everything for you...

+ rifle has a nice pierce and a good range. 😄 I just go there in my normal build. (Not full zerker but mostly zerker with a lil bit toughness.) Not removing any trinkets. But I'm mainly there for dailis now that I grinded out the 5x50 door events last year for the AP. 😄