My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm

[Moriartiy.6753]

After watching todays stream about the balance stream i want to share my personal biggest pain point with the wvw pain point which is totally unrelated to the games balance. 

This topic is probably a beat on a dead horse but I feel frustrated about so here goes,

 

having played a total of six hours today i earned about 600 Pips which earned my the gold Chest 140 Skrimish Claim tickets. You guys probably now were im going with this and kudos who everyone who has done it! 

I want to get the Legendary WvW Armor for which I need a total of 7880 Skirmish Claim tickets, the maximum amount I can get per week is 365 as long as i make it to the final chest.

Getting 7880 Skirmish Claim tickets takes a minimum time of 22 weeks making it to the final chest, to get the final chest I need 1450 Pips in 7 days. 

 

If I take todays result into account (which included the committed bonus Pip) my guess is that I will need to play round about 15-18 Hours of WvW per week for the next 22 Weeks If i want the Armor as fast as possible.

I know there are ways to improve one's tick by tagging up or getting to a higher level (which also takes forever) and I get that the mode is build for longevity but if we take a look at the Raid Armor in Similarity, I could get all three sets heavy, medium and light Armor in less weeks and probably less time played per week assuming I wont need 15 hours to full clear Wing 1-7 while I also getting way more rewards in terms gold, ascended items and the option to buy ascended gear for magnetic shards an option I don't have in WvW since every Skirmish ticket spend delays the Legendary Armor!

 

I get that the armor is gained more passively without a "collection" and you have to spend less other resources, also get that its a reward for those committed to the mode and I actually like the mode and will most likely play WvW after I got the Armor but this timegate in line with ascended gear using the same feels horrible and i wish there would be made a small change of either more pips baseline, more skirmish tracks you could earn in total per week or having the ascended gear using another currency until a proper solution for WvW rewards is found. 

 

[Daredevil.2745]

nobody cares, wvw is not about rewards.

[Moriartiy.6753]

22 minutes ago, Daredevil.2745 said:

nobody cares, wvw is not about rewards.

If "nobody" cares about rewards nor about the match what do "WvW" palyers actually care about in your opinion? 

 

Why do you think every WvW player universally agree that a more rewarding expierence would be a bad thing?

[Labjax.2465]

29 minutes ago, Daredevil.2745 said:

nobody cares, wvw is not about rewards.

Incorrect, loads of people evidently do care considering how many times this topic comes up and how similar the complaints are about it.

Edit: Also, I agree OP. Thing is, state of WvW rewards means unless you adore the game mode or you are playing purely for the fun of the game and not at all for rewards (unlikely, considering how reward-centric the game is), you won't have much motive to play it over other aspects of the game. There are other aspects of the game where it's not like that, where you can jump in, participate, help keep its population active, and still get solid rewards out of it. For WvW, engaging with it casually means getting very little (compared to other options for time spent). And I know based on past similar threads, there will be people who want to say stuff like "you don't deserve more if you don't play it more," but that's beside the point. I'm thinking purely about the motive of it, not about what people deserve or don't deserve. It's just a pragmatic thing about how I want to spend my time in-game and what's effective for achieving my account progress goals and overall getting enjoyment out of the game consistently.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Labjax.2465

[Strider Pj.2193]

OP:  I think a valid question to you would be

 

‘Do you care about WvW?’

 

I get you care about the armor.  Which was initially a long term reward for WvW players.  It’s been sped up more than 3 times since it’s inception, either with the amount of tickets earned or the speed with which you can acquire Pips per tick, along with a drop in the requirements for the ‘top tier’ WvW armor.  
 

Having three weights of the armor, I don’t need tickets anymore because there is nothing to spend them on.  
 

So, what else would you have for the tickets?  What new item should people be able to buy?

 

Stay a while, enjoy the mode.  The tickets come.  
 

If it’s a chore, I would ask you why would you want to play a mode that isn’t fun, for an item that isn’t needed..  

 

Good luck out there!

 

 

[Strider Pj.2193]

53 minutes ago, Moriartiy.6753 said:

If "nobody" cares about rewards nor about the match what do "WvW" palyers actually care about in your opinion? 

 

Why do you think every WvW player universally agree that a more rewarding expierence would be a bad thing?

More rewarding experience for this of us that are long term players usually does not equate into more tickets faster as many of us have nothing to spend them on.

 

Some players would like more liquid gold, or a use for emblems or something to buy with excess tickets

 

Also, more of a ‘reward’ for many of us would be a change in the population balance, which, for many would come with alliances.  But we’ll see how soon that gets here.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Same old topic.

New player dont get enough Tickets.

Old players have 10th of thousands of them without any purpose.

 

[Labjax.2465]

13 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Old players have 10th of thousands of them without any purpose.

More like, "player who plays WvW 16 hours a day for years."

Not that I'm judging anyone on how much they play WvW or the game in general, but having an enormous amount of excess tickets suggests an abnormally high level of investment in the game mode over a long period of time, not just being an "old player." Some "old players" in this game have never even gotten a single legendary.

I fully support such players being able to do something useful with their excess tickets, mind you. But I make the distinction because it matters about where the complaints originate from; it's not just being old or new, it's the pacing of it and the investment expected. That is, if you try to do it "legit" anyway. You can be one of those people who flips camps while doing other things, but well... for my own part, if I start doing a thing like that, then I start wondering why I'm playing the game at all.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

48 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

More like, "player who plays WvW 16 hours a day for years."

Not that I'm judging anyone on how much they play WvW or the game in general, but having an enormous amount of excess tickets suggests an abnormally high level of investment in the game mode over a long period of time, not just being an "old player." Some "old players" in this game have never even gotten a single legendary.

I fully support such players being able to do something useful with their excess tickets, mind you. But I make the distinction because it matters about where the complaints originate from; it's not just being old or new, it's the pacing of it and the investment expected. That is, if you try to do it "legit" anyway. You can be one of those people who flips camps while doing other things, but well... for my own part, if I start doing a thing like that, then I start wondering why I'm playing the game at all.

If my Quick math doesnt lie, then people can have over 100000 Tickets by now.

Even if you dont play that much per week. People still will have a duckton of Tickets by now. Especially "older players".

I mean, i can get all 365 Tickets in less then 10 hours of Gametime thanks to my high WxP Level.

 

Edited October 29, 2022 by DanAlcedo.3281

[captrowdy.9561]

It is a bit ridiculous. I always play mmos for the pvp for the fun not rewards. I play a lot of wvw and I rarely make it to the last chest. Now that I’m close to enough tickets to get a full set I find my self getting burned out. 

[Labjax.2465]

15 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

If my Quick math doesnt lie, then people can have over 100000 Tickets by now.

Even if you dont play that much per week. People still will have a duckton of Tickets by now. Especially "older players".

I mean, i can get all 365 Tickets in less then 10 hours of Gametime thanks to my high WxP Level.

 

Aren't you kinda proving my point though? You can have it relatively quickly because of your high WvW rank. That's part of the raw time investment factor. Granted, that one specifically also ties into factors like how quickly you can rank up, some of which is out of your control, regardless of raw time spent. Like if I remember right, the old EotM ktrain was pretty good for ranking up, but that's not a thing anymore. If you go into WvW now and find mostly fight guilds and/or environment where your server is getting obliterated, you might be lucky to get a few ranks a day, unless, I guess, you do the camp flipping route.

Edited to add: I may be missing some things, kinda tired, but I think if the tickets were frontloaded and the non-ticket rewards were backloaded (and better) that would mean both "old" and "new" as you call them would be getting rewards that are more relevant to them at a rate that is desirable for them.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Labjax.2465

[yoni.7015]

The ticket acquisition rate is fine. I made two legendary armor sets, two Conflux and the legendary back. Once you have everything legendary from WvW,  there is no use for the tickets anymore. So it should take a while. Play raids if you want the armor faster. 
legendary armor is a long term goal. The WvW legendary armor is primarily meant for WvW players and not PvE players that refuse to raid. 

Edited October 29, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Riba.3271]

I haven't been very active ingame past few years and even I have 17k tickets tickets with 2 conflux, 3 legendary armor sets and warbringer made.

What do I with this stuff??

Honestly just play the game bro. You can go any other MMO and your grind for gear will never stop. You will be killing level 2 foxes everyday. In this game once you get legendary stuff, you don't need do anything anymore.

When legendary armors came out, there were people doing mixture of PvP, WvW and PvE to get 3 sets as fast as possible. Have you thought about that? You don't need to choose just 1 if you're in a hurry.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Riba.3271

[Jitters.9401]

9 hours ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

Having three weights of the armor, I don’t need tickets

Yes. Because you already got the 3 armor sets everyone else should feel like you want them to.

 

All I do is wvw and wvw has disgustingly poor rewards.  All the good expensive drops are pve. 

 

It is a super easy fix but either anet is lazy as"f" or they just don't care. Even if it was just extra money per chest, at least the extra coin would help.

 

I killed a treasure mushroom and got the invisible shoes so I sold then on the t.p. nothing like that ever drops in wvw. No infusions, no nothing. 

[Jitters.9401]

2 hours ago, yoni.7015 said:

Play raids if you want the armor faster. 

Yes.i should play a game mode that has absolutely zero interest for me. You have any clue how fast that kills a person's desire to play any game? 

 

Here is a thought. If a person doing only pve gets the armor so very much quicker, then it means they are getting every component that much quicker. In wvw we still need materials which still costs a crap ton of money of which you barely make in wvw. 

People need to look at all parts of obtaining the legendary gear including monetary cost and how easy that money comes into their hands. 

[yoni.7015]

12 minutes ago, Jitters.9401 said:

Yes.i should play a game mode that has absolutely zero interest for me. You have any clue how fast that kills a person's desire to play any game? 

 

Here is a thought. If a person doing only pve gets the armor so very much quicker, then it means they are getting every component that much quicker. In wvw we still need materials which still costs a crap ton of money of which you barely make in wvw. 

People need to look at all parts of obtaining the legendary gear including monetary cost and how easy that money comes into their hands. 

If you want the armor fast then raids are your best option. 
WvW should have better rewards but the ticket acquisition rate is fine. 

[Zyreva.1078]

46 minutes ago, Jitters.9401 said:

Here is a thought. If a person doing only pve gets the armor so very much quicker, then it means they are getting every component that much quicker. In wvw we still need materials which still costs a crap ton of money of which you barely make in wvw.

But PvE players don't start by playing raids either, it typically takes a while to get "raid ready", meanwhile in WvW players can start working towards their legendary armor right away, no matter how inexperienced they (or how bad their build/gear) are. When people talk about "fast" PvE armor they are talking about the shorter time gate, not how long it takes players to actually get there.

And when considering how many players there are, that have apparently no interest in WvW (otherwise they wouldn't mind spending all that time) yet still choose that path over the PvE alternative, it's probably too easy to get the WvW armor, not the opposite.

Edited October 29, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Zok.4956]

13 hours ago, Moriartiy.6753 said:

(...) but this timegate in line with ascended gear using the same feels horrible and i wish there would be made a small change of either more pips baseline, more skirmish tracks you could earn in total per week or having the ascended gear using another currency until a proper solution for WvW rewards is found. 

 

I agree with the part about ascended gear. Ascended-WvW-gear was probably meant as a stepping stone, to ease the way into legendary gear, but it does not work well. Ascended gear and ascended weapons in WvW should be easier and faster to get from playing WvW.

And about legendary armor in WvW: Sure, pips and timegates and ways for spending tickets could be optimized. But it still should be a legendary armor / reward for players that play WvW a lot. WvW-pip-farming  should not be the easy-way-out for PvE-open-world-players that can not get the PvE-legendary-raid-armor. 

Edited October 29, 2022 by Zok.4956

[Strider Pj.2193]

1 hour ago, Jitters.9401 said:

Yes. Because you already got the 3 armor sets everyone else should feel like you want them to.

 

All I do is wvw and wvw has disgustingly poor rewards.  All the good expensive drops are pve. 

 

It is a super easy fix but either anet is lazy as"f" or they just don't care. Even if it was just extra money per chest, at least the extra coin would help.

 

I killed a treasure mushroom and got the invisible shoes so I sold then on the t.p. nothing like that ever drops in wvw. No infusions, no nothing. 

But ‘getting the armor faster’ isn’t ‘better rewards’.  That’s my whole point.  
 

I am all for better rewards which, my posts in this thread detail.  So, maybe don’t focus on the part you did?

 

The armor acquisition process has been sped up no fewer than 3 distinct times.  It’s fine.

 

There needs to be rewards that are consistent and consumable/rewardable from a gold perspective.  
 

Or, give something else to spend the tickets on.  

[subversiontwo.7501]

2 hours ago, Jitters.9401 said:

Yes.i should play a game mode that has absolutely zero interest for me. You have any clue how fast that kills a person's desire to play any game? In wvw we still need materials which still costs a crap ton of money of which you barely make in wvw. 

People need to look at all parts of obtaining the legendary gear including monetary cost and how easy that money comes into their hands. 

2 hours ago, yoni.7015 said:

If you want the armor fast then raids are your best option. 
WvW should have better rewards but the ticket acquisition rate is fine. 

Which, btw, is the main point against these kind of threads (Jitters): If a player's main bottleneck for WvW armor is tickets and not gold, they are not playing enough WvW to warrant the tickets. Those players are then, effectively, already "playing a game mode they have no interest in" by being PvE players suggesting WvW items should be more accessible to them than to the players who primarily play WvW and are bottlenecked by gold.

Edited October 29, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[Justine.6351]

How does buying ascended armor delay getting legendary armor? It's literally used to make it. I am pretty sure I had all 3 ascended armor skins unlocked before finally making my legendary light armor and warbringer. Legendary armor is really not that special and sometimes its annoying. Try pinging a piece of gear when someone asks what stat/runeset you are using.

Tldr, work on the sets of ascended gear first then tackle the legendary version/s. It's a lot more digestible.

[Zikory.6871]

I don't envy Anet for being expected to find a solution for this.

Most of us that just enjoy WvW get/got our leg gear for basically free, pretty awesome reward to those of us that never planned to Raid for legendary armor.

It just blows my mind that instead of learning raids and gearing a Legendary armor set in what 6 weeks? isn't the go to. People would rather spend 30 hours a week for a year to get it in WvW. Lmao smh my head.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Zikory.6871

[Gotejjeken.1267]

It's 2-3 hours per day for 22 weeks if you want it as fast as possible, I fail to see how this is unreasonable compared to the other options, especially because it requires nothing outside of time.

The exaggerations here are rather incredible though.  

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 10/29/2022 at 5:14 AM, Labjax.2465 said:

Edited to add: I may be missing some things, kinda tired, but I think if the tickets were frontloaded and the non-ticket rewards were backloaded (and better) that would mean both "old" and "new" as you call them would be getting rewards that are more relevant to them at a rate that is desirable for them.

 

They were at the time backloaded to give an extra tick to those that did spend more time in WvW on purpose to be an extra bit for those that went the distance versus just draw more treasure hunters looking to get the most for the least. No I wouldn't have frontloaded them then and still wouldn't. Not saying other options shouldn't be reviewed when we get on the otherside of Alliances but I don't think frontloading is the answer here. 

[kash.9213]

On 10/29/2022 at 9:27 AM, Zikory.6871 said:

I don't envy Anet for being expected to find a solution for this.

Most of us that just enjoy WvW get/got our leg gear for basically free, pretty awesome reward to those of us that never planned to Raid for legendary armor.

It just blows my mind that instead of learning raids and gearing a Legendary armor set in what 6 weeks? isn't the go to. People would rather spend 30 hours a week for a year to get it in WvW. Lmao smh my head.

I learned raids and instanced encounters in other games. I've seen them on this game. I'm done with that noise and the people there for the most part. I loved everything about the last expansion until it was clear I'd have to grind with those people in the last meta event and would have to grind out Strikes for a bit. Some people have had their fill of that stuff and it's hard to even think about going back and trying to get through it, even for Legendary convenience. 

Ascended is still good enough and templates make that easier. I don't mind at all taking longer to make Legendary pieces along the way if I can do what I enjoy doing and not have to put up with the nonsense.