WvW : Anet vs Players

[Invalid.8765]

Why is it so important for Anet to further damage a game mode they do not understand or care to.

 

You have 2 different types of WvW players:

1. Actually plays WvW because they enjoy the decent fights that sometimes appear (not carebear boonball groups)

2. Plays Forum v Forum but claims they are the most dedicated WvW veteran and have hundreds-thousands of forum posts

 

 

Feel free to cater to the fairweathers like every other game in the past 5-10 years, they will stop playing before you implement changes that will further reduce the amount of actual WvW players there are. Or listen to the veteran playerbase that enjoys WvW but wishes devs would not have listened to the idiots of the past (IE removing Orbs, removing Quaggan island, removing Red BL to add Desert BL, no pip rewards in Edge of the mists, etc)

 

Devs are probably too stubborn to admit they do not understand WvW, but a simple change in their minds (alliances) will have much more severe long term effects and will not achieve their goal of making "WvW better"

 

Anet has yet to add a reason to WvW and as it stands most people (not Forum v Forum complainers) play WvW for fun

 

Add pips to Edge so that we can once again use that part of the game rather than ignore the likely hundreds+ hours of development that went into that great map. It helps with reset night queues as well as stale matches, which if they go forward with this half-baked version of alliances as it sounds like, will help greatly for the horrible matchups that will follow

 

 

 

In come posts from forum warriors with thousands of posts full of noise and nothing of merit

[Alsandar.7420]

Mostly I agree. Tens of thousands of people play WvW and thoroughly enjoy it. I play 6 days/week.

 

I fear complainers who try wvw a handful of times and I hope anet never caters to them

[Aeolus.3615]

11 hours ago, Invalid.8765 said:

(....)

Devs are probably too stubborn to admit they do not understand WvW, but a simple change in their minds (alliances) will have much more severe long term effects and will not achieve their goal of making "WvW better"

(...)

They do understand, the game was made by them lol.... its the players that are some has lame has the dev's and love to be carried and other older mmo players that hate the new genra of balance that most mmo's reached which is a very dumb spam carry game.

Btw game was made with the ideology that a player should be carried no matter what content i, just play the douchiers of the builds and play even like a kitten, u will excell, that's how i even managed to do 1 vs 5 and win, at that time i didnt even knew what i was doing for most part of the combat.... i am not that of a skilled offensive player(was playing condi bunker builds).

Edited November 9, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Zok.4956]

12 hours ago, Invalid.8765 said:

In come posts from forum warriors with thousands of posts full of noise and nothing of merit

Attacking other players before anyone has even replied to your text is unnecessary and only invalidates your own text/position.

Did you make a provocative troll post with an alt-account (nomen est omen), or do you want a substantive and factual discussion?

[Mabi black.1824]

ANET knows everything, and checks all the numbers and data related to this mode. He made his choices with alliances, smart choices because in fact so many small pieces can be put together much better. And there is still plenty of time for small changes to contextualize alliances in this game mode, so much so that they said that it is still a good time to put here all our thoughts and / or criticisms that make constructive sense.

So relax, if you have any good idea we are all free to express it here, you are in the hands of those who created this game, you have been in good hands for almost 10 years and you will continue to remain in good hands.

 

P.S. Anet while carrying out the work of alliances, consider if you can grant and give some small novelty to WWW players, it helps to overcome the wait, it would be enough for me to see the reconnections reduced to 4 weeks instead of 8 weeks for the next few months, then you invent something else and so on. All you can concede without big effort is a good time to do it.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Mabi black.1824

[Loboling.5293]

There's also the type of player who likes to roam and find small skirmishes. I play about 1-2 hours of WvW per week for it's open world PvP/PvE. Still only tank 320ish after playing since launch. Never was big into zergs and I only participated in one WvW guild years ago. That was a lot of fun, but the meta was more dynamic back then. (I played either staff ele or thief scout) There's too many defensives now, and pirate ship play is the worst meta there is. (Not that it's exactly like that now, but it led to me leaving my guild and started to only solo roam)

[Svarty.8019]

16 hours ago, Invalid.8765 said:

Why is it so important for Anet to further damage a game mode they do not understand or care to.

 

You have 2 different types of WvW players:

1. Actually plays WvW because they enjoy the decent fights that sometimes appear (not carebear boonball groups)

2. Plays Forum v Forum but claims they are the most dedicated WvW veteran and have hundreds-thousands of forum posts

I agree with some of the OP, but not much. The devs have listened. You can't deny that. They've listened to;

• Their own idea of what WvW should be,
• Ganking roamers,
• Karmatrain zerg comms,
• and now, GvG guilds.

 

They've talked a lot about a "vision" of what WvW should be, but never laid it out. It is, of course, another lie. There's no vision, there's no future plan. Nobody would admit that, though, because, "We don't know, we'll just tweak random stuff to keep it interesting", won't retain hopeful optimists.

[Hackuuna.4085]

I don't even understand how red bl continues the way it has for all these years. In nearly every single matchup since it was added it has the lowest WvW activity.

[kash.9213]

I don't think the Orbs would have had the lasting power that people think. Every fight would be a tightly scripted dance by this point if people even still bothered and at this point in the game, would probably be horribly lopsided too often. 

Desert doesn't feel as ignored as it used to compared to other BLs, but the borders just aren't taken care of any more in most of my matches unless there's a popular enough tag who doesn't mind pulling away from a map to respond to stuff for a minute. 

I don't think EotM is needed for rollover, even on most reset nights, but it shouldn't hurt.

Ya, Alliances will be a new thing, but it's still going to be a contained within the confines of the game mode we have right now, but with more guild leader influence on match population and their quality of life during a match. 

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by kash.9213

[Xenesis.6389]

3. Is new, clueless, doesn't read the forums, or followed the development cycle to know what's going on with the game mode.

 

Veterans already give their advice, behind the scenes in private, they don't listen to the wvw forums, they haven't since the polls. In fact veterans is all they ever listened to, even back to the days when they had the devs run with guilds, it was mostly the veteran zerg guilds they ran with, they don't run around with ppt guilds, they don't with small guilds, they don't even roam. If they ever listened to the wvw forum section boon ball blobbing wouldn't be a thing.

 

Now your history lesson.

Orbs were removed because they were being fly hacked, they couldn't prevent hacking(even to this day) so they removed them, this wasn't a player request, in fact most players would probably love to have orbs back as it promoted open field fights.

Ruins were brought in to replace the Orbs power, but players did not request anet to take out the quaggan to replace it with the ruins, this was an anet decision.

It was either we get three desert and three alpine rotation, or one desert and two alpine permanently. Guess which was the better option for "all" players at all times.

No pips for eotm because skirmish mode was made for wvw. Eotm is a temporary area for when servers have all four maps queued, essentially at reset, which only lasts for like an hour now these days. Eotm is not suppose to be some farming map where you spend all your time for the week in there leveling up characters and rolling over newbs for bags. You want wvw rewards, then play wvw.

 

The people who don't want alliances, don't care about balance, don't care about competition, they only want to zombie farm rewards like eotm, pretend they want to be a part of some community but are too stubborn or lazy to click twice to actually join one.

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

20 hours ago, Invalid.8765 said:

Why is it so important for Anet to further damage a game mode they do not understand or care to.

 

You have 2 different types of WvW players:

1. Actually plays WvW because they enjoy the decent fights that sometimes appear (not carebear boonball groups)

2. Plays Forum v Forum but claims they are the most dedicated WvW veteran and have hundreds-thousands of forum posts

 

 

Feel free to cater to the fairweathers like every other game in the past 5-10 years, they will stop playing before you implement changes that will further reduce the amount of actual WvW players there are. Or listen to the veteran playerbase that enjoys WvW but wishes devs would not have listened to the idiots of the past (IE removing Orbs, removing Quaggan island, removing Red BL to add Desert BL, no pip rewards in Edge of the mists, etc)

 

Devs are probably too stubborn to admit they do not understand WvW, but a simple change in their minds (alliances) will have much more severe long term effects and will not achieve their goal of making "WvW better"

 

Anet has yet to add a reason to WvW and as it stands most people (not Forum v Forum complainers) play WvW for fun

 

Add pips to Edge so that we can once again use that part of the game rather than ignore the likely hundreds+ hours of development that went into that great map. It helps with reset night queues as well as stale matches, which if they go forward with this half-baked version of alliances as it sounds like, will help greatly for the horrible matchups that will follow

 

 

 

In come posts from forum warriors with thousands of posts full of noise and nothing of merit

 

Welcome to the forums!

Not the best entry since you seem to want to go after everyone, which to some point could be considered neutral when viewed from some direction. So you had some points to make and quite a bit of assumptions. 

I won't talk about ANet assumptions since I can't speak for them. As far as forum goers, yes a lot of people here will also quite often be found in game. Its when we're not in game we find time, right or wrong, to post because we do play or would like to be doing so. We will also not agree for various reasons and environments in which our match making might be playing out or traditionally our different interactions have occurred. But then again the section is about 'Discussing the mist war'. I admit what I have found is if you have suggestions please feel free to hop on and layout your ideas. I would recommend you be ready for people replying since that's also their option to do so. Many of the points you did partially bring up have been done overtime so I won't go into which I would agree with or not since it seems less of your point and more not knowing where ANet takes ideas from. That again is up to them to share though if you didn't watch the balance team live stream you might want to since there they do reference their own internal guidance, feedback from players, forums and external sources. Now I agree that is vague but if you want better detail that's up to you to expand your post and ask that directly. Good hunting!

Edited November 9, 2022 by TheGrimm.5624
spelling

[Strider Pj.2193]

2 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

 

The people who don't want alliances, don't care about balance, don't care about competition, they only want to zombie farm rewards like eotm, pretend they want to be a part of some community but are too stubborn or lazy to click twice to actually join one.

 

To add to this,

people want a commander on their map when they ‘need them’ but also want some one else to blame when things don’t go right.  But they don’t want the responsibility of tagging themselves nor if joining a guild and supporting a guild with commanders.  
 

They want the ‘community’ commanders to stay and not go with their guilds because it’s not fair..  🤦‍♂️

[Fern Gully.9634]

I do not have a guild but I have been on my server since this game was released and like the community there, no single guild has invited most of the players on my server and I think that means we will all be split up when alliances come out. I will likely stop playing if this happens, I only play because I like the community on my server

[mysticozzy.3589]

8 minutes ago, Fern Gully.9634 said:

I do not have a guild but I have been on my server since this game was released and like the community there, no single guild has invited most of the players on my server and I think that means we will all be split up when alliances come out. I will likely stop playing if this happens, I only play because I like the community on my server

So why not make one "mega guild" then you can all play together. instead of creating more problems be part of the solution?

[Xenesis.6389]

4 minutes ago, Fern Gully.9634 said:

I do not have a guild but I have been on my server since this game was released and like the community there, no single guild has invited most of the players on my server and I think that means we will all be split up when alliances come out. I will likely stop playing if this happens, I only play because I like the community on my server

Alliances is not even in beta yet, there will be plenty of time to form alliances for communities before it's actually finalized out of betas. Alliances can also be as simple as telling everyone in your server community, to sign up one of their bank or joke guilds into the community alliance to get everyone in the same world, they wouldn't even need an extra guild slot for it. The only problem is the 500 restriction, and that really only affects guilds that decided to run 2-4 extensions of their main guild.

 

[DeceiverX.8361]

On 11/8/2022 at 5:40 PM, Invalid.8765 said:

Why is it so important for Anet to further damage a game mode they do not understand or care to.

 

You have 2 different types of WvW players:

1. Actually plays WvW because they enjoy the decent fights that sometimes appear (not carebear boonball groups)

2. Plays Forum v Forum but claims they are the most dedicated WvW veteran and have hundreds-thousands of forum posts

...

Or listen to the veteran playerbase that enjoys WvW

...

In come posts from forum warriors with thousands of posts full of noise and nothing of merit

Now pray tell, how should ANet listen to said players?  Reading Map chat logs?

I hate to break it to you, but some of us with the thousands of posts are the same people who put thousands of hours into the format years ago before it went to crap, and are wasting our time throwing our voices to the void of the forums because frankly it's the only platform that ANet as a studio even has a remote chance of actually paying attention to.  Because in the end, we just love this game.

Plus the PvP is better here than it is in-game at this point because of how bad it is.

Since your post seems critical of alliances as its actual subject matter, many of us have already stated, Years ago, that nothing will actually happen as a consequence of such a system.  Hell, I had posts on the original forums doing breakdowns of why simply grouping players would fail to accomplish its goals in detail, and how AI could be used to handle player data to provide real solutions.

[Kozumi.5816]

Anet loves their WvW players...the ones who boonball in a guild and never fight the other 3 boonball guilds. Yes, they love all 50 of these people! In fact, they love them so much they balance and design the entire mode around them!

If you're the other 99.99% of the player base, oh well, sucks.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[TheGrimm.5624]

22 hours ago, Fern Gully.9634 said:

I do not have a guild but I have been on my server since this game was released and like the community there, no single guild has invited most of the players on my server and I think that means we will all be split up when alliances come out. I will likely stop playing if this happens, I only play because I like the community on my server

 

Server pride myself, but as others stated, doesn't mean that a group of people playing together on a server can't form into a server wide Alliance. Biggest hurdle is getting some one to manage the Alliance and try and band people together. That is one spot where guild and server pride will conflict. Guild pride might be saying me and server pride might be saying us. Doesn't mean they will mash. A lot of server pride people are pretty much 'Hey I want to go the pub and see Sam, I don't talk to Sam, but I know they have my back' kind of people so we will have to adjust for that in the new system. We have seen the writes up on how Anet sees the system working but we won't be able to try it till Q1 next year. I do think it might lead some people down the power trip lanes but that's up to players finding internal ways to account for that. Play some New World to see how another gaming company tries similar takes on the whole WvW and seen some interesting 'Alliance' meltdowns with similar tools in place. But lets gets there first to see how the story plays out here.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

11 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Anet loves their WvW players...the ones who boonball in a guild and never fight the other 3 boonball guilds. Yes, they love all 50 of these people! In fact, they love them so much they balance and design the entire mode around them!

If you're the other 99.99% of the player base, oh well, sucks.

it has nothing to do with guilds. there exist barely any guilds of this size afaik. and KISS doesn't even run anymore i think. even the "ill" guild from abbadongs just runs 40~ and the 20 others are just pugs

wvw will drown in a pugtide mode sooner or later with all the nerfs to serious groupcomps

anet destroys groups rather than buffing them. they only buff plain numbers. not groups. they nerf synergy between the classes more and more

 

so ye, anet likely hates Wvw and tries its worst to kill it off

[Mabi black.1824]

5 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

it has nothing to do with guilds. there exist barely any guilds of this size afaik. and KISS doesn't even run anymore i think. even the "ill" guild from abbadongs just runs 40~ and the 20 others are just pugs

wvw will drown in a pugtide mode sooner or later with all the nerfs to serious groupcomps

anet destroys groups rather than buffing them. they only buff plain numbers. not groups. they nerf synergy between the classes more and more

 

so ye, anet likely hates Wvw and tries its worst to kill it off

No come on this is not a truthful description.

We had to wait a long time, but what we see now is a real work and commitment of development finally also in this game mode. Maybe the wait was very long and maybe some of your precious friends have moved away from the game Things around you have changed, I understand it, and for this I understand and justify your negative vision.

But we have to try to be honest and give credit to the work that development is putting into this mode. We must have patience to see and understand how the balancing changes work, the development certainly has a broader vision than ours and a goal and a perimeter that it wants to achieve.

Also when making changes on the various classes, you have to consider that these changes affect all players, random or veteran. An organized group that habitually plays together and builds its team in a neat way, will remain a well-organized and extremely effective group, whatever it is facing.

[Svarty.8019]

On 11/12/2022 at 11:23 AM, Mabi black.1824 said:

the development certainly has a broader vision than ours and a goal and a perimeter that it wants to achieve.

Pffff!!!!!1111   Hahaha. Ahem. Sorry.

[Mabi black.1824]

1 minute ago, Svarty.8019 said:

Pffff!!!!!1111   Hahaha. Ahem. Sorry.

LOL

[enkidu.5937]

On 11/10/2022 at 9:37 PM, Fern Gully.9634 said:

I do not have a guild but I have been on my server since this game was released and like the community there, no single guild has invited most of the players on my server and I think that means we will all be split up when alliances come out. I will likely stop playing if this happens, I only play because I like the community on my server

In fact, that was the overall goal of WvW for 10 years: to create / join / play as a healthy community and keep it running. Even to defend it from brainsick sociopaths that wanted to take over the whole server and tried to kick the dissidents out of squads / server voice chat / community guild. 😁 Haha, priceless, seeing them fail was 1000 x more fun than any future reward for winning a matchup can ever be, in this “red vs. blue vs. no one cares” alliance mode. 😏

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

Its all about the money.  Can their investment into WvW generate more income than its costing them.

 

Based on how little they've done for the game mode over the years, its clear they don't think much of it.  

 

The do have their champions and they seem to only listen to blob commanders, so we have that going for us...... 

[Invalid.8765]

Lack of Anet dev response is par for the course. Most of the threads in WvW and PvP section highlighting the glaring lack of content/Anet effort and ideas to improve with little effort go unnoticed by the devs.

 

They are quick to tell you to stay on topic or thread will be closed, but when it comes to anything else, crickets.

 

Makes you suspect they take the same approach as a lot of other devs (video game or not); "We know what you want better than you do, this is for your own good"