The 4th specialization, what is left for the class?

[draxynnic.3719]

11 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The poll option was "Rifle - AoE range with a single unblockable skill/mechanic for WvW/pVe mostly" and that was what I was responding to.

Also rifle on every class has a piercing option (engineer, warrior, and thief). If you run marksmanship on longbow for piercing you still would only have one thing that is AOE, which is barrage.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fierce_Shot
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Volley
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Explosive_Shell - AOE

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gun_Flame

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skirmisher's_Shot

Longbow was run on power berserker (which has no boon rip) in WVW, the issues with ranger extend past the weapon. The pet is the primary drawback.

And longbow pierces on all relevant skills at the cost of a trait in the power damage line. So you're basically asking for something that already exists except that instead of needing a specific core trait, it needs a specific elite specialisation.

And if we're trying to recontextualize the debate, I was responding to your allegation that scepter would not be able to have the desired effect in WvW. We're not having this discussion because you support rifle, we're having it because you insisted another weapon was inferior based on falsifiable claims. And the way I see it, a scepter with nonprojectile attacks would do far more to broaden ranger capabilities, especially in WvW, than any realistically predictable implementation of ranger rifle.

Now, I don't have a dog in this race. I'm fairly agnostic about WvW zerg builds, and I definitely think there's room for a techy big game hunter type specialisation at some point. But if your goal is explicitly 'make something that does well in WvW zergs', then I just don't think rifle is what you're looking for.

If optimising for WvW zergfights is the aim, then what you really want is druid staff rebalanced as a DPS weapon and available to soulbeast. And the most realistic way of getting something close to that probably means scepter/warhorn.

Edited December 23, 2022 by draxynnic.3719

[DemonCrypto.6792]

i have been thinking a bout septer AA

and what it could be.

 

I think i would like something akin to the one mordrems have.

Bursting Bramble - Ranged auto-attack channeled over 3 seconds, firing 1-3 ground-based  homing projectiles at nearby enemies each second. Each projectile stops upon reaching an enemy, dealing damage in an area of effect as vines burst through the ground. 1 second cast time. 1000 range. 150 radius. Cannot be reflected.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mordrem_Teragriff

 

Would be fun and nature magique based

 

[InsaneQR.7412]

Tbh i would be down for scepter/mace the most for the following reasons:

1. We do not have a midrange AoE weapon which could be covered by one of the two.

2. The only area a riffle could cover that isnt already present is long ranged AoE reminisceht of the mortar kit which IMO does not fit ranger or the corresponding fantasy a ranger with a riffle wants to fullfill

3. Ranger lacks a proper CC one handed weapon

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

The obvious choice for the next expo will be rifle, because the game lacks a good rifleman.

- Engi is more of a machinegun (I imagine they'll be changing it back after all the complaints).

- Warrior is more of a shotgun. It has alot of range but many of the skills require some melee usage, and it generally revolves around their one-hit burst skill.

- Thief is a sniper, even moreso after the update didn't end up nerfing their range.

 

There's no general-purpose mid-range rifle user in the game. Ranger could easily us a rifle at range 900 in place of a pistol with heavy damage and CC capabilities. (The truth is Untamed was the perfect oppertunity for a rifle, and would've worked perfectly with the hammer's mechanics..)

Edited December 23, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[The Boz.2038]

If not a spear (I do so desperately want land-use water weapons), then rifle. Base the new espec on the minutemen of the american frontier: loosely organized self-sufficient proto-special-forces. Give them Armaments, like the Bladesworn, and base them around ranged harassment and melee attack (fix bayonets!).

[Matoro.9708]

Since Anet seem to be in the business now of making the elite specs a self contained class, you may as well make the achievement rifle have a crossbow skin. A crossbow can launch crazier stuff than a bow can, like smoke bombs, explosive bolts, healing salves, etc. Can have bolts tipped with electric eel glands or some other nonsense.  However, they honestly should just fix some more things about core weapons.

Shortbow should probably have the flanking requirements removed. Axe two is silly, holding 5 axes in one hand and throwing them is like that picture of the guy with too many eggs. Just make it cut a wide arc or something. Longbow really sadly doesn't feel like the ranged mortar of GW1. 

I have no idea what the next expansion will be about, so I can only think about things we haven't had yet for the mechanic: both pets out at once, become the pet, uhhh.... aurene controls dragon magic now, so dragon magic pets? I'm not sure if the utilities will have any synergy with the weapons, the recent specs certainly haven't had much tie in with the core class, so who knows. It's honestly kind of depressing to me.

[draxynnic.3719]

3 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

The obvious choice for the next expo will be rifle, because the game lacks a good rifleman.

- Engi is more of a machinegun (I imagine they'll be changing it back after all the complaints).

- Warrior is more of a shotgun. It has alot of range but many of the skills require some melee usage, and it generally revolves around their one-hit burst skill.

- Thief is a sniper, even moreso after the update didn't end up nerfing their range.

 

There's no general-purpose mid-range rifle user in the game. Ranger could easily us a rifle at range 900 in place of a pistol with heavy damage and CC capabilities. (The truth is Untamed was the perfect oppertunity for a rifle, and would've worked perfectly with the hammer's mechanics..)

Not sure where you're getting the idea that warrior isn't a good rifleman? Rifle Butt is primarily a gap-opener, coupled with Brutal Shot. Explosive Shot is your underslung grenade launcher, where the cone doesn't start until you hit something. Everything except the aforementioned Rifle Butt is perfectly functional at long ranges - it doesn't even have any of the fan effects, bouncing effects, or other effects that can make ranged weapons on other professions actually more effective in close. The only thing that could possibly push you into melee is Rifle Butt restoring ammo for other skills, which I think is primarily intended to make sure you have a good followup to the knockback.

The main problem is that it's undertuned, with too much of what power it does have on the burst skill.

 

I'd also consider deadeye to be a decent rifleman. Regular shot, disabling shot, short burst, defensive skill, kneel to trade mobility for precision. Yes, there's a sniper theme there, but most of your time isn't spent firing sniper shots (and it can often be effective just by running and gunning), and a carefully aimed attempt at a killshot is likely to be in any rifle marksman's skillset. 

 

There's space for the rifle-armed scout/hunter theme, but I don't think you can say either of those are not a proper rifle user in the context of the GW2 skill system.

(And heck, the machinegun engineer has now pretty much been fixed. The main problem there is that the engineer is more oriented towards firing weird stuff like nets and grenades than marksmanship.)

[Mic.1897]

I don't like the options put for the weapons so can't vote for anything lol

[The Boz.2038]

1 hour ago, Mic.1897 said:

I don't like the options put for the weapons so can't vote for anything lol

Thank you for using the "post reply" tool to make your preferred weapon known, instead.

[Infusion.7149]

3 hours ago, Mic.1897 said:

I don't like the options put for the weapons so can't vote for anything lol

Those are all the weapons that aren't available with current specs.

[Mic.1897]

Yeah but they have specific skill ideas next to them

[Grand Marshal.4098]

You getting a power dps mainhand in Mace with a small CC cooked into it. 

[Acyk.9671]

By order of preference:

 

1) Spear/Javelin to RP as a hunter with warhorn in WvW

2) Scepter

3) Shield to get that warden/sentinel spec

4) Mace if one of the skill is range like Warrior mace 5 or Rev mace 2

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Acyk.9671

[Phyrak.7260]

Considering the siege turtle, a mounted spec should be interesting.

Not for every pet - one for each type of play. Say 6-7 would be a good number.

Mount on F4; F1-3 are special ability from the mount.

Then just adjust attacks based on weapons used. I'm definitely over simplifying it, but the idea is there

1-5 stay as your normal skills perse with changed animations while mounted 

[Dadnir.5038]

2 hours ago, Phyrak.7260 said:

Considering the siege turtle, a mounted spec should be interesting.

Not for every pet - one for each type of play. Say 6-7 would be a good number.

Mount on F4; F1-3 are special ability from the mount.

Then just adjust attacks based on weapons used. I'm definitely over simplifying it, but the idea is there

1-5 stay as your normal skills perse with changed animations while mounted 

The issue of your idea is the amount of new animations needed to realize it. From a purely practical point of view it's equivalent to 6-7 x 4 (races body model) transformations with each a new set of skills animation. Considering that they barely added new skill animation in EoD, what you suggest is probably equivalent to a gruelling amount of work. Without forgetting that many transformations are simply awful in term of movement/skills fluidity (most pets are awful in term of movement/skills fluidity!).

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

The issue of your idea is the amount of new animations needed to realize it. From a purely practical point of view it's equivalent to 6-7 x 4 (races body model) transformations with each a new set of skills animation. Considering that they barely added new skill animation in EoD, what you suggest is probably equivalent to a gruelling amount of work. Without forgetting that many transformations are simply awful in term of movement/skills fluidity (most pets are awful in term of movement/skills fluidity!).

Agreed, considering how the current mounts behave, I feel like a mounting elite spec for ranger would feel really clunky when it comes to in combat movement.

I don't want to have to maneuver something like the raptor during combat...

[phaidetublacke.6048]

I've posted about this before and should dig it up, but in a few words: reverse Soulbeast. Become the animal!

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

2 hours ago, phaidetublacke.6048 said:

I've posted about this before and should dig it up, but in a few words: reverse Soulbeast. Become the animal!

That was the original plan for soulbeast. Was too hard to make work.

[Arheundel.6451]

With all the projectile hate in the game...to a point where the only longbow build I run is sic'em with hunt signet....at that point...the rifle is the favourite weapon?I wasn't expecting this

[Kodama.6453]

12 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

With all the projectile hate in the game...to a point where the only longbow build I run is sic'em with hunt signet....at that point...the rifle is the favourite weapon?I wasn't expecting this

Well, as far as I have seen in discussions like this, people tend to care more about the thematic than the actual usefulness in gameplay.

[kharmin.7683]

14 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Well, as far as I have seen in discussions like this, people tend to care more about the thematic than the actual usefulness in gameplay.

And, not everyone plays WvW/PvP either.

[Arheundel.6451]

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

And, not everyone plays WvW/PvP either.

Since when an elite is created for pve, pvp or wvw? People spend money to play an elite so it matters not what people like to play, if the weapon is not acceptable in all game modes then it's useless and not worth the money. Even more important is the mechanic behind the weapon itself, as long as the mechanic is solid....few cares about the weapon. Soulbeast is the favourite elite because it can be played everywhere and with any weapon, same argument with Druid to a minor lesser scale..but Untamed, right now can't be played effectively without hammer and we want avoid a similar issue.

Even with untamed, it may have been based on a gw1 concept, but they still tried to build something widely usable : "thematic" is no worth money or development time and widely unaccepted 

Given the plethora of blocks/reflect in the game, every class now farts reflects...longbow is virtually useless outside some gimmick one shot sic'em with the Hunter Signet...where you fire entire utility bar in the hope of killing some Timmy who strayed far from the flock and likewise longbow is not used by the pve playerbase who prefer axes, GS, hammer,shortbow. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Arheundel.6451

[draxynnic.3719]

18 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Well, as far as I have seen in discussions like this, people tend to care more about the thematic than the actual usefulness in gameplay.

Which is fine, as long as people are honest about it rather than trying to claim that it's just what is needed for a particular environment, when a logical assessment of what ArenaNet is likely to do with the weapon gives no indication that it would help there.

[Kodama.6453]

2 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

.but Untamed, right now can't be played effectively without hammer and we want avoid a similar issue.

Erm.... did you see condi untamed?

[Kal Durak.2830]

haha Rangers already have it all.  This is a joke right?