The 4th specialization, what is left for the class?

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

4 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

I want Ranger to get an offhand focus that lets it summon huge eldritch pets (depending on what pet type is being used).

 

I think scepter would feel too much like Druid staff. I think shield is unlikely given that we already have two shield especs. And I don't really feel like pistol/rifle really gel with Ranger's "au naturale" distinction against engineer and thief.

Focus could be cool, but it could also end up being too similar to druid staff, as focus and scepter are often parallels as weapons. A weapon skill that only affects your pet might be too risky to be good or just too much input for not enough output, for PvP and PvE respectively, and I don't see them doing something that is both an attack/defensive utility and a huge boost to your pet in the same skill. 

I mean we got 2 hammer specs in the same expansion, I could see a third shield spec being added, and I think there's definitely more room to work with for shield than pistols or rifle. I think shield is just about as likely as scepter or focus, both of which I could definitely see coming around with the 4th espec, especially if we stick around in Cantha.

Pistol and Rifle don't have anything to them ranger really wants or needs- pistol steps on mainhand axe and to a degree torch, rifle steps on longbow, and I doubt they have much up their sleeve that would really improve on something ranger already has (i.e. how soulbeast dagger helped with burst (for a time) and both power and condi damage output, druid staff gives more healing opportunities, and untamed hammer cranked up the hard CC that ranger wasn't lacking in, but doesn't mind the help with). Maybe make your skills ranged non-projectiles with either (since ranger is almost entirely projectiles or melee), but that just sounds like both a balancing nightmare and an opportunity for more people complaining that the profession that has the word "range" in it's name has strong ranged damage.

[kiri.1467]

On 12/19/2022 at 3:24 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

My personal (and the one of my best friend, who mains ranger for many years now but unfortunately is not a great forum-goer) would be an elite spec that uses the scepter as a whip.

Like having a green, thorny, magical vine extend from the scepter, which is used to flay enemies at medium range.

As utility skills, wells could get used to give ranged AoE abilities, but this skill type seems a bit overused already. My friend oftenly requested to get access to venoms, since these make sense for ranger thematically (especially since venoms on thief are all based on Tyrian animals, something ranger sits at the source of). To make it thematically different from the thief venoms, maybe a ranger could use poisons taken from plants instead, which would also feed into the thematic of the scepter/whip with the vine animation.

Only problem I see with venoms is that the gameplay mechanic seems a bit similar like the stance share from soulbeast already, so it would need a pretty good twist to make it different.

Now just spitballing ideas here: What if ranger venoms wouldn't put all stacks of the venom buff in a PBAoE around the ranger, but instead they are ground targeted and the ranger grows a plant at the selected area, which then will pulse an effect around it which affects enemies and allies? One plant, for example, could pulse conditions onto enemies around it and at the same time pulse stacks of the venom to your allies.

 

 

I think this is a great idea. It's got theme and unique functionality.

Edit: also got some serious Usopp vibes going. This spec will be unbeatable and unnerfable!

Edited December 21, 2022 by kiri.1467

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Bring spears to land, give warrior a spear spec and give ranger a hunter spec with spear. Ranger gets bonuses from using pets that stalk and gets more access to stealth (not thief amounts) and some actual useful traps that significantly cc the enemies sounds cool to me. Rifle ranger will just end up gbage like warrior and outshined by lb ranger and or deadeye(due to its very high stealth access?

Edited December 19, 2022 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Batalix.2873]

17 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Focus could be cool, but it could also end up being too similar to druid staff, as focus and scepter are often parallels as weapons. A weapon skill that only affects your pet might be too risky to be good or just too much input for not enough output, for PvP and PvE respectively, and I don't see them doing something that is both an attack/defensive utility and a huge boost to your pet in the same skill. 

I mean we got 2 hammer specs in the same expansion, I could see a third shield spec being added, and I think there's definitely more room to work with for shield than pistols or rifle. I think shield is just about as likely as scepter or focus, both of which I could definitely see coming around with the 4th espec, especially if we stick around in Cantha.

Pistol and Rifle don't have anything to them ranger really wants or needs- pistol steps on mainhand axe and to a degree torch, rifle steps on longbow, and I doubt they have much up their sleeve that would really improve on something ranger already has (i.e. how soulbeast dagger helped with burst (for a time) and both power and condi damage output, druid staff gives more healing opportunities, and untamed hammer cranked up the hard CC that ranger wasn't lacking in, but doesn't mind the help with). Maybe make your skills ranged non-projectiles with either (since ranger is almost entirely projectiles or melee), but that just sounds like both a balancing nightmare and an opportunity for more people complaining that the profession that has the word "range" in it's name has strong ranged damage.

 

Yeah we could see a third shield spec, I just think it unlikely when we have several weapons with less representation, focus not appearing at all in any especs (but also scepter, longbow, shortbow, rifle, and mace). When I look at professions that feel "magicky" enough that don't have access to focus yet, only Ranger and Revenant really stand out to me as potential candidates. I don't see Warrior, Thief, or Engi ever getting a focus.

 

As for "buffing" pets, I don't think focus would work that way. I think it would work more like classic FF summons, where you don't really control the eldritch pet so much as use them as a blasty mega attack. We don't really have a "summoner" archetype espec yet...Catalyst and Herald kind of flirt with it but imo are themselves different archetypes.

 

That said, whoever suggested a scepter-whip might be onto something. I have a similar idea about Thief using an offhand axe/sword as a "grappling rope", but honestly if I could get both concepts I would play the crap out of them.

[draxynnic.3719]

On 12/20/2022 at 3:33 AM, Infusion.7149 said:

I think people are losing sight of the forest for the trees. Nature magic theme or not, most players don't care about that sort of thing and would rather to have a strong spec to play. The topic is "what is left for the class" which is a WVW DPS spec (druid would be serviceable if it has pet stow as far as a support). That is why I don't agree with scepter being a top pick, the only way for it to be a strong spec for WvW would be if all utilities and scepter skills did ranged AoE (3 targets+ auto and 5 target AoE) and you would still not get major mileage from warhorn, offhand axe, or torch (condi in WVW). Scepter for the most part is also 900 ranged which again brings the question of why would you run it over a power scourge with double wells, staff ele, scepter ele, herald/vindicator with hammer, etc.

Rifle is the only weapon on the list with 5 skill slots available ; most people from other games call ranger a "hunter" class anyway. Pistol doesn't scream "hunter" so much as rifle does.

So, if we're specifically looking for a WvW build?

Rifle is probably going to involve projectiles. I think I saw someone proposing shotgun style earlier, but that would basically be recreating the guardian lootstick that was removed for a reason. You might get one or two shotgun-like skills but you're not getting it as the auto.

Scepter has potential for ranged projectile-less attacks, and 3/5 scepters have at least one AoE skill. Couple it with warhorn, and you have a buff skill for the group and another projectile-less ranged attack. I'm not a WvW expert, but that strikes me as a solid starting point for a ranger zerg build. Implement some mechanic so the pet doesn't get immediately redshirted and you're most of the way there.

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

So, if we're specifically looking for a WvW build?

Rifle is probably going to involve projectiles. I think I saw someone proposing shotgun style earlier, but that would basically be recreating the guardian lootstick that was removed for a reason. You might get one or two shotgun-like skills but you're not getting it as the auto.

Scepter has potential for ranged projectile-less attacks, and 3/5 scepters have at least one AoE skill. Couple it with warhorn, and you have a buff skill for the group and another projectile-less ranged attack. I'm not a WvW expert, but that strikes me as a solid starting point for a ranger zerg build. Implement some mechanic so the pet doesn't get immediately redshirted and you're most of the way there.

The main thing about scepter is it is currently 900 range on all classes.

A rifle even if the auto and one or two attacks is projectile can allow for 1200 range. Hammer on revenant and staff on ele / necro /guard are all projectile autos. Scepter (auto) on ele is projectile unless you are on air or fire. Don't fixate on autos.

If you want a viable WVW DPS it has to compete with hammer on revenant at the least, look at hammer on revenant as a baseline (even before herald boons) as well as power scourge with axe mainhand (single target mostly) and scepter mainhand (which still has ~1.16 power coefficient in WVW with devouring darkness). This isn't even including projectile weapons such as berserkers with longbows or DH longbows, both of which are less universally used.

Regardless, the only other weapon other than rifle that even comes close to being useful as a new elite spec for ranger is scepter. I don't even know why anyone would think mace, shield , focus, or pistol is a good idea. I would posit that a scepter would need respectable power damage to be even considered in WVW so again as I suggested an outline of rifle, scepter would need something along the lines of:

#1 (auto) : non projectile 3 target cleave with poison or bleeding (unlikely burning if nature themed) with 0.8 coefficient in PVE and 0.5-0.6 coefficient or something akin to that in WVW/PVP since a mainhand scepter has 1000 midpoint weapon strength instead of 1100 on rifle
#2 : ground target AOE 180 radius with hybrid damage ~2.2 coefficient (to compete with ele Dragon's tooth) and poison stacks (~1.6 in WVW/PVP) with <10 cooldown --- needs obvious animation if high power damage and no delay
#2 alternative: ground target pulsed AOE in line with lava font on ele which is less strong but easier to balance
#3 : AOE 240 radius 2.0 coefficient and stacked bleeding + cripple (~1.4 coefficient in PVP/WVW) with <10 cooldown

** A fan attack similar to virtuoso dagger , or harbinger shroud, or mainhand ranger axe would mean it is unusable and the bigger the radius of a pulsed AOE the less likely you are to hit the same target multiple times in a choke point.

Utilities would need to fill in the AOE gap on <30s cooldowns. Maybe implement some pulsing power damage on the utilities. You'd also need pet stow , hopefully with a small benefit to having the pet stowed or invuln but not attacking (i.e. crit chance , bleed/poison on crit, or small crit damage mod).

Ideas for WVW utilities with a nature theme:
* Nullify enchantments : remove protection and resolution from targeted area (similar to Break enchantments on spellbreaker)
* Earth's binding: remove stability and aegis from targeted area doing extra damage to crippled targets

The skill type for a "hunter" type spec would probably be preparations akin to thief, whereas a nature magic themed spec would likely use spirti weapons, symbols, elixirs or something of that sort.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Infusion.7149
add notes for scepter skills

[Levetty.1279]

Quickness sharer is the most obvious choice. 

This creates multiple problems though.

Alacrity will have to be removed from Spirits and then placed on Druid traits/skills as healers need alacrity or quickness. This then means barring a Druid rework, Ranger will have no Alacrity DPS option. Similarly since our healing options are all tied up in Druid then the new spec will either have to be able to spec for healing or DPS as well as quickness or we will be missing either a Quickness DPS or Quickness Healer build.

[Kodama.6453]

2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The skill type for a "hunter" type spec would probably be preparations akin to thief, whereas a nature magic themed spec would likely use spirti weapons, symbols, elixirs or something of that sort.

I don't think a hunter would get preparations, because they just work way too similar to traps (thief basically just got their skill type reworked so they can't abuse the rune of the trapper, but they still operate very very similar to traps) and ranger already has those.

About a nature themed spec, what also came to my mind are consecration skills. They would fit the theme quite well and could provide the AoE effects needed for the spec.

[draxynnic.3719]

I'm amused that the argument that sceptre<rifle for WvW purposes seems to be that 1200 range>900 range no projectile, and then the examples given as builds to beat are primarily using 900 range no projectile weapons (axe scourge, sceptre scourge, mention of sceptre ele where 7/12 skills are projectile-free, and 5/6 on air and fire that are the main power damage attunements).

Meanwhile, how often does rifle actually get used in serious WvW zerg builds? I found a power holo build, but it basically only uses the rifle for the shotgun blast and rocket jump in between flamethrowing and holoforging. In terms of WvW utility, a ranger rifle probably wouldn't be that different to longbow, which provides 1500 range at the cost of being mostly projectiles.

I could see rifle coming in just for the sake of being an alternative and to cover the modern sport hunter fantasy, but I really don't think it'd be a weapon that will revolutionise ranger gameplay in WvW zergs.

Edited December 21, 2022 by draxynnic.3719

[Lazze.9870]

On 12/18/2022 at 10:05 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

How are you going to compete with hammer rev (1200 range), power scourges with double wells (900 range), or any staff ele just by mainhand scepter (or even worse with offhand focus)?

I've barely touched the game in a month or two, but hammer rev wasn't that impressive last time I checked. Power scourge isn't a damage dealer primarly. It's not 2019 anymore.

As for how to compete. Well, AoE scepter and some damage wells. It'd need a good mechanic, ofc. And not a pet. It's not that difficult to envision it.

 

On 12/19/2022 at 6:33 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

(druid would be serviceable if it has pet stow as far as a support).

Druid is servicable as is. If you're running druid, you're not basing your squad to play around stealth to begin with because the scrapper isn't there. Stealthing the pet with mesmer veils is easy. It would be better with force stow, but it is definetely serviceable atm.

[Dadnir.5038]

On 12/19/2022 at 6:33 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

I think people are losing sight of the forest for the trees. Nature magic theme or not, most players don't care about that sort of thing and would rather to have a strong spec to play

That's true. However, let's be fair, technologic weapons don't strike me as especially powerful in GW2.

In another post you talk about scourge double Well, nothing prevent a ranger magic spec from getting Wells.

The true crux of the matter is what kind of main mechanism the spec would revolve around (I really wonder why peoples are so obsessed by the weapon they could get). I do believe that reanger still have left in him:

- Lingering pet: When swapping pet, the familiar that should have disappeared still linger for 10-15s. You'd probably have the pet's stats lowered like druid's.

- Unique pet category: The spec would lose access to the classic pet list in favor of spec specific pet list. (I mean it's strange that up to now the various e-specs still cling to the pet list and we have yet to have a specialist of a certain kind of pet: Falconeer, Beekeeper, Botanist... etc. The pet category could even be "technologic" pets like the steam creatures or the twisted clockworks)

- Etheral summons: The ranger have weapons that conveniently summon the image of various animals on skill use, this is the ideal springboard for a specs that would summon animal clones on skill use that you could detonate through f skills for various effects.

- Blood sacrifice: You could have a spec that make use of the pet's life as a fuel tank for dark spells. The pets would only be able to AA and the ranger would have access to a few F skills that have a cost in pet life to produce an effect.

 

[Exo.2143]

Definetely Rifle. Rifle is a very underused weapon in GW2. From the core classes only Warrior and Engineer are able to use it. With elite specializations, only Deadeye comes swinging in there aswell. I find it very weapon that weapons like Greatsword, Sword and Staff can pretty be used by almost all classes and Rifle is restricted to 33% (3 out of 9) of all classes.

[ApaWanka.2698]

I’ve suggested Sceptre because I think that the range us less important than the projectile thing. That why even having a 1500 range weapon the only use that we can do with it us the arrow cart build. 

@Infusion.7149you want Zerg play for Ranger and I want the same. However see a non projectile rifle is as likely to see an sceptre with 1200 range. (No chance)

Ele staff have AA but the have enough skills to don’t actually use them on Zerg play while Reve hammer only AA is projectile while the main skills have low CD so us a filler in the best case. 

It is more likely to see an off hand with good utilities (eg chrono) than non projectile rifle, projectile is part of the main design of rifle for this game, every rifle is a projectile wrapping and I’ve doubted that is going to change. 

As @RainbowTurtle.3542 mention before, Rifle fill the same gap as LB, 2 hands long range protective damage. Nothing new for ranger so that would be bland and boring… I would rather prefer something fresh and new. (Speaking about mechanics)

Edited December 21, 2022 by ApaWanka.2698

[Infusion.7149]

9 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I'm amused that the argument that sceptre<rifle for WvW purposes seems to be that 1200 range>900 range no projectile, and then the examples given as builds to beat are primarily using 900 range no projectile weapons (axe scourge, sceptre scourge, mention of sceptre ele where 7/12 skills are projectile-free, and 5/6 on air and fire that are the main power damage attunements).

Meanwhile, how often does rifle actually get used in serious WvW zerg builds? I found a power holo build, but it basically only uses the rifle for the shotgun blast and rocket jump in between flamethrowing and holoforging. In terms of WvW utility, a ranger rifle probably wouldn't be that different to longbow, which provides 1500 range at the cost of being mostly projectiles.

I could see rifle coming in just for the sake of being an alternative and to cover the modern sport hunter fantasy, but I really don't think it'd be a weapon that will revolutionise ranger gameplay in WvW zergs.

I think you're missing my point. What could a ranger DPS scepter do that an ele on scepter cannot given that ranger does not have baseline boonrip skills?
The only possible answer is more range which means rifle would be preferable.  I wouldn't be opposed to scepter if it is nonprojectile but let's not pretend that it would be a meta pick when other classes' scepters including on scourges and guardians are also 900 range.

Longbow isn't used outside of roaming because you're forced into marksmanship if you want piercing and the non-projectile barrage roots you.
 

6 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

I've barely touched the game in a month or two, but hammer rev wasn't that impressive last time I checked. Power scourge isn't a damage dealer primarly. It's not 2019 anymore.

As for how to compete. Well, AoE scepter and some damage wells. It'd need a good mechanic, ofc. And not a pet. It's not that difficult to envision it.

 

Druid is servicable as is. If you're running druid, you're not basing your squad to play around stealth to begin with because the scrapper isn't there. Stealthing the pet with mesmer veils is easy. It would be better with force stow, but it is definetely serviceable atm.

It's still being used. More rev than scourges , however scourges have more boon rips if lacking spellbreaker/chrono.

Let's not forget unlike PVE you won't have quickness output anymore or massive amounts of mobile might/fury which is one reason herald is strong.

1 hour ago, ApaWanka.2698 said:

I’ve suggested Sceptre because I think that the range us less important than the projectile thing. That why even having a 1500 range weapon the only use that we can do with it us the arrow cart build. 

@Infusion.7149you want Zerg play for Ranger and I want the same. However see a non projectile rifle is as likely to see an sceptre with 1200 range. (No chance)

Ele staff have AA but the have enough skills to don’t actually use them on Zerg play while Reve hammer only AA is projectile while the main skills have low CD so us a filler in the best case. 

It is more likely to see an off hand with good utilities (eg chrono) than non projectile rifle, projectile is part of the main design of rifle for this game, every rifle is a projectile wrapping and I’ve doubted that is going to change. 

As @RainbowTurtle.3542 mention before, Rifle fill the same gap as LB, 2 hands long range protective damage. Nothing new for ranger so that would be bland and boring… I would rather prefer something fresh and new. (Speaking about mechanics)

Blunderbuss is not projectile on engineer and neither is jump shot.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Kodama.6453]

56 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Blunderbuss is not projectile on engineer and neither is jump shot.

Both also are more or less melee skills (blunderbuss deals more damage the closer you are and jump shot just deals damage around yourself on landing).

[melon.2538]

I really want some kind of non-projectile ranged boon spec for ranger. Like a shaman, idk, it would be nice to use a ghost pet that is a mobile combination of boons/buffs that isn't damaging enemies but also isn't killable. Yes, it would kill spirits and rightly so.

[aymnad.9023]

Scepter / focus with corruption / consecration. Every poll my answer is unchanged. My desire for a “magic user” ranger spec is not fulfilled with druid. Maybe a condi off support with barrier. Also still a big no to rifle.

But now that we know this espec will give quickness I can already see an physical spec with shield and shouts (removed a long time ago) to boost your allies  (my pet does more damage than you!)

Edited December 21, 2022 by aymnad.9023

[voltaicbore.8012]

I voted for rifle (I wanted rifle with PoF, but wasn't surprised we didn't get it). I still think ANet won't give ranger access to rifle, because it isn't "nature"-y enough.

Scepter is a distant second place in my preferences, with the remaining other choices not being even remotely interesting to me. It would be nice to have a ranged, non-projectile aoe condi spec, and I can see scepter fitting that role. I could also seeing it be a poor version of HAM (heal alacrity mechanist), with a pet that helps distribute boons. Of course, ranger pets are nowhere near as sturdy and useful as a mech in heavy combat... aaaand this is ranger we're talking about. There's no way we'd get an equally useful version of what another class enjoys. We're not even allowed to have shouts.

[Kodama.6453]

2 hours ago, aymnad.9023 said:

But now that we know this espec will give quickness I can already see an physical spec with shield and shouts (removed a long time ago) to boost your allies  (my pet does more damage than you!)

Why you think the spec will give quickness?

Anet doesn't want any class to be able to provide quickness and alacrity both at the same time for a team. Since they added alacrity to core ranger, it's consent for most that ranger will never get a quickness support elite spec until they take alacrity away from spirits again.

Warrior is in the same boat, it can't get an alacrity support spec because they got quickness in core.

[aymnad.9023]

1 hour ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Why you think the spec will give quickness?

Anet doesn't want any class to be able to provide quickness and alacrity both at the same time for a team. Since they added alacrity to core ranger, it's consent for most that ranger will never get a quickness support elite spec until they take alacrity away from spirits again.

Warrior is in the same boat, it can't get an alacrity support spec because they got quickness in core.

Because of the “bring the player not the profession”.

While we have no way to say it is 100% guaranteed, if we take just a look at eod and the reworks they did before eod we can see a lot of boon givers being added to the game.

They reworked multiple professions in the past, I do not see what makes you think they will not do a few more in the future. 

 

Edit : maybe the new one will have none and they will give a boon to untamed and another to druid. We can only speculate. (but my bets are on alac for druid 🙂)

Edited December 21, 2022 by aymnad.9023

[jpsssss.7530]

Condi spec that has rage skills?

[Ashford.8540]

4th spec? Ranger as of right now only has 2 viable spec and Untamed is likely going to be nuked back to being garbage in PvE so back to only having 1 spec.

 

Think all 3 specs being viable for pve would be a nice change of pace.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Ashford.8540

[draxynnic.3719]

23 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

I think you're missing my point. What could a ranger DPS scepter do that an ele on scepter cannot given that ranger does not have baseline boonrip skills?
The only possible answer is more range which means rifle would be preferable.  I wouldn't be opposed to scepter if it is nonprojectile but let's not pretend that it would be a meta pick when other classes' scepters including on scourges and guardians are also 900 range.

Longbow isn't used outside of roaming because you're forced into marksmanship if you want piercing and the non-projectile barrage roots you.

And you're missing the point that ranger rifle would most likely be just an alternative set of skills in much the same role as longbow already fills. We have precedent for how rifles behave. They're projectile-based, long range, and usually single-target-oriented. And given that ranger rifle would likely be downplaying the nature magic side rather than leaning into it, there's not much potential for magic to cause it to have funky physics-defying behaviour. Maybe you'd get a shotgun-style spread attack, but it wouldn't be effective at long range, and it wouldn't be an autoattack with range greater than flamethrower range (guardian staff was reworked primarily because of the effect the 'lootstick' had in WvW).

You claim that ranger scepter would be competing with scepter on other professions - I say that those other scepters, particularly ele and necro, are proof of concept. Making ranger practical in WvW isn't about doing something no other profession can do - with a projected 36 elite specs next expansion, that's hard to do, and your own proposal seems to be leaning on engineer rifle as a template, which doesn't seem to be in high demand from what I can see. Instead, making ranger practical in WvW zergs would involve providing capabilities that 1) ranger doesn't already have and 2) would be useful in WvW zergfights. Rifle, from what I can see, would likely fulfill neither. Scepter as a non-projectile DPS-oriented ranged weapon has the potential to do both.

[Infusion.7149]

2 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

And you're missing the point that ranger rifle would most likely be just an alternative set of skills in much the same role as longbow already fills. We have precedent for how rifles behave. They're projectile-based, long range, and usually single-target-oriented. And given that ranger rifle would likely be downplaying the nature magic side rather than leaning into it, there's not much potential for magic to cause it to have funky physics-defying behaviour. Maybe you'd get a shotgun-style spread attack, but it wouldn't be effective at long range, and it wouldn't be an autoattack with range greater than flamethrower range (guardian staff was reworked primarily because of the effect the 'lootstick' had in WvW).

You claim that ranger scepter would be competing with scepter on other professions - I say that those other scepters, particularly ele and necro, are proof of concept. Making ranger practical in WvW isn't about doing something no other profession can do - with a projected 36 elite specs next expansion, that's hard to do, and your own proposal seems to be leaning on engineer rifle as a template, which doesn't seem to be in high demand from what I can see. Instead, making ranger practical in WvW zergs would involve providing capabilities that 1) ranger doesn't already have and 2) would be useful in WvW zergfights. Rifle, from what I can see, would likely fulfill neither. Scepter as a non-projectile DPS-oriented ranged weapon has the potential to do both.

The poll option was "Rifle - AoE range with a single unblockable skill/mechanic for WvW/pVe mostly" and that was what I was responding to.

Also rifle on every class has a piercing option (engineer, warrior, and thief). If you run marksmanship on longbow for piercing you still would only have one thing that is AOE, which is barrage.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fierce_Shot
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Volley
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Explosive_Shell - AOE

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gun_Flame

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skirmisher's_Shot

Longbow was run on power berserker (which has no boon rip) in WVW, the issues with ranger extend past the weapon. The pet is the primary drawback.

[Elricht Kaltwind.8796]

On 12/19/2022 at 5:57 PM, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

1. Again, the theme could take priority over the design with this one. I don't want another "Core turned up to 11" (pvp untamed) or "Core with 1 extra trait" (pve untamed- tell me with absolute certainty that in general, instanced PvE untamed is not "Core with Fervent Force". You auto-cast your pet skills anyways, the extra control is really not worth it).

2. We don't need another burst option like you're suggesting. People LOATHE Soulbeast in WvW because all it can do is burst, so it's forced to burst well.  Having something that leans even harder into bursting is just a recipe for disaster, since up until the Eternal Bond changes (and even to a degree now, just less so with the EB changes) Soulbeast was a one trick pony. This spec would crash and burn harder than Firebrand after the initial design rework this past major patch.

No