Guardian changes preview Feb 3

[Infusion.7149]

Mantra rework rework (revert?)

PVE power DPS update

•  Right hand strength no longer reduces recharge of sword skills
• Strike (PVE) upped to 1.0 coefficient
• Vengeful strike (PVE) to 1.1 coefficient
• Wrathful strike (PVE) increased coefficient to 1.5
• Symbol of Resolution: Increased power coefficient per strike from 0.6 to 0.65 in PvE only.
• Sword Wave: Increased power coefficient per strike from 0.5 to 0.55 in PvE only.
• Symbol of Blades: Increased power coefficient per strike from 0.6 to 0.65 in PvE only. Reduced recharge from 10 seconds to 8 seconds.
• Ray of Judgment: Increased power coefficient per strike from 0.33 to 0.45 in PvE only.
• Zealot's Defense: Reduced cooldown from 15 seconds to 12 seconds.
• Whirling Wrath no longer reduces movement speed
• Symbol of Protection - reduced cast time to 900ms
• Zealot Embrace - barrier
• Banish rework - applies 5s mark that teleports you to target , consumed by Mighty Blow
• Unscathed Contender rework - Aegis is 7% bonus now not 20% and 7% additional >90% HP

DH /Willbender

• Test of Faith (PVP) - prot 4s
• Lights Judgement - now dazes, 20s cooldown
• Wings of Resolve 25s cooldown
• Shield of Courage 50s
• Fragments of Faith PVP/WVW 45s cooldown, stab reduces to 4s
• Hunters Determination rework - elites all break stun
• Heavy Light iCD 1s
• Willbender virtues no longer remove other willbender virtues --- supposed to be alac willbender buff
• Hunters Ward (WVW) - reduce final impact to 1.333

PVP firebrand adjustment

•  Initial cast time returned, final charge stronger
• Become charged state out of combat in PVE map
• Weghty terms tirgger on final charge
• Firebrand tome exit is 0.5s cooldown
• Firebrand pages now filled on respawn
• Chapter 2 Igniting Burst PVP - weakness 3s
• Chapter 3 Heated Rebuke - page cost 1 in PVP
• Chapter 2 Radiant Recovery PVP - Reduced cooldown to 6s
• Chapter 4 shining river PVP - pulse heal now 464 ; attribute scaling from 0.2 to 0.25
• Epilogue Eternal Oasis now 2 pages in PVE
• Unbroken lines PVP - increased stab to 2 stacks

(will update as it goes)

Edited February 3, 2023 by Infusion.7149
add missing sword updates

[MagicBot.1570]

So instead of working on Willbender/DH, they actually reworked Firebrand, once again

 

I'm glad they still have a sense of humor

[Barraind.7324]

Oh boy, we're going back to the absolute worst quickness application / utility skill system again with the mantra change, cant wait to have to completely re-memorize how the core boon of the spec works again. 

 

The change away from this nonsense was one of the best QOL updates the spec ever got, reverting it is asinine unless its going to be giving significantly better uptime per press. 

[oubee.9520]

Only good thing is wb virtues will not delete each other. God i hate firebrand but this kitten of an elite gets reworks every god kitten time

[Sonork.2916]

WB virtue's not overwriting each other is great!

Also positive hammer changes!  We got our 1st barrier skill boyos!  Who'kitten thunk the guardian class would be like the last class to get access to barrier?

Edited February 3, 2023 by Sonork.2916

[Vidit.7108]

I missed the mantra and animations but the way mantras worked before absolutely sucked. They seemed to admit that on stream and yet in reverting them do nothing to address the original problems people had with them. I don't want to have to regain the muscle memory of not spending all my charge to maintain quickness on a party.

[GoingMenthol.7281]

32 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Symbol of Protection - reduced cast time to 900ms

Good God it's finally happening, I need to hire a tuxedo for the day

[Infusion.7149]

8 minutes ago, Vidit.7108 said:

I missed the mantra and animations but the way mantras worked before absolutely sucked. They seemed to admit that on stream and yet in reverting them do nothing to address the original problems people had with them. I don't want to have to regain the muscle memory of not spending all my charge to maintain quickness on a party.

I think it is to increase counterplay in PVP while future buffing firebrand since it is listed as PVP firebrand changes. I was fine playing firebrand in its original iteration but i can see how people that picked it up after the instant charge changes might need some relearning.

[Solstice.5790]

Really looking forward to having my 3-second precast for a stunbreak mantra interrupted in WvW.
QCFB will probably be just as amazing, ignoring the fact we're already stuck with this kitten high-vit ritualist nonsense.

But hey, bringing firebrand down was the plan, I will continue to curiously watch how much further.
Maybe.

[Doomdesire.9365]

Anet: For the third time in a row we've seen that nobody is playing power guard after our previous 3 patches failed to give adequate buffs. SURELY another 500 dps will fix DH this time.

 

 

Maybe after another 4 patches of .1 coefficient increases will we be able to compete 🤣

Edited February 3, 2023 by Doomdesire.9365

[LuRkEr.9462]

Back to the always keep 1 charge of your mantra playstyle. I don't see this as going forward, rather a step back. Hopefully they change their mind on this. 

Seems like something to throw in so they can revert it and say they are listening to feedback

 

[Ghorast.8290]

Whirling Wrath no longer snaring you is going to be the best chance ever, going to be sweet combo with Whirling Light.

[Vidit.7108]

30 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

I think it is to increase counterplay in PVP while future buffing firebrand since it is listed as PVP firebrand changes.

But it has a major PvE impact as well. If it goes back to the original amounts of boons/durations you lose 5 stacks of might. Protection/Resolution/Quickness/Regen upkeep is reduced placing higher pressure on using the mantras off cooldown or supplementing with other skills. The only detail i heard about the final charge is getting a page back which just isn't worth it for mantra of potence. 

It's maybe not a big deal to experienced players that already are on top of upkeeping boons. But mistakes are more costly, someone not in your boon cone has to wait longer to get quickness back. A new player has to spend more time looking at their hotbar instead of paying attention to their allies or the field. IMO it's detrimental overall in PvE.

[Gehenna.3625]

DH in WvW (which I play) lacks punch. When this goes live, I suspect it will be the same. It's good for various aspects of WvW but the DPS is just lacking. This is in part because a DH has to stack damage and that means that enemies have to have specific conditions on them (burning and/or cripple) and preferably not too much movement (DH Longbow skill 4). SoJ, longbow skill 3 and 5 do virtually no damage...well except the final hit of skill 5, but in WvW you're not paying attention if you let yourself get caught in that last hit. And hey, they nerfed that damage for WvW as well.

And apparently they want you to play GS really really a lot instead of sword/focus.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

3 hours ago, GoingMenthol.7281 said:

Good God it's finally happening, I need to hire a tuxedo for the day

You mean you don't already own the butler outfit? 😯

[Genie.1785]

Since mantras are back, FB's heal mantra should have an aegis back, but only for the last charge.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

7 hours ago, Genie.1785 said:

Since mantras are back, FB's heal mantra should have an aegis back, but only for the last charge.

It does, plus protection and resolution durations are extended and more healing.

 

[Genie.1785]

Huh, great minds think alike.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

Still no love for scepter, tho. 😞

 

[Ragnar.4257]

On 2/3/2023 at 9:43 PM, Barraind.7324 said:

Oh boy, we're going back to the absolute worst quickness application / utility skill system again with the mantra change, cant wait to have to completely re-memorize how the core boon of the spec works again. 

 

The change away from this nonsense was one of the best QOL updates the spec ever got, reverting it is asinine unless its going to be giving significantly better uptime per press. 

 

On 2/3/2023 at 9:49 PM, Vidit.7108 said:

I missed the mantra and animations but the way mantras worked before absolutely sucked. They seemed to admit that on stream and yet in reverting them do nothing to address the original problems people had with them. I don't want to have to regain the muscle memory of not spending all my charge to maintain quickness on a party.

 

On 2/3/2023 at 10:24 PM, LuRkEr.9462 said:

Back to the always keep 1 charge of your mantra playstyle. I don't see this as going forward, rather a step back. Hopefully they change their mind on this. 

Seems like something to throw in so they can revert it and say they are listening to feedback

 

Is it really too much to ask players to think about whether or not to use a skill at the right moment? Or is being unable to simply roll your face across the keyboard using everything off cooldown now counting as "not user friendly" ?

I really despair seeing people push back against more strategic depth and player choice.

Do you really have so little self-control or decision-making capability that having the option to expend the final charge for a more powerful effect is too much to handle?

This change literally doesn't take anything away from you, it only adds an option that you didn't have before. At the moment you only have option-A (use a charge every 12s), post-change you will still have option-A but also have option-B (final-charge for big effect and re-cast). Is having 2 things to choose between really going to blow your minds?

Edited February 5, 2023 by Ragnar.4257

[Artyport.2084]

Mantras seem like the perfect way to add a bard like play style.

 

example. 

 

Mantras of solace: for 6 seconds you pulse a healing aura that heals for x amount every 2 seconds. After the 3 pulses gain Solace, healing you for x big amount. If an ally is healed by the pulses. Gain Perfect Solace which heals but also grants aegis to you and allies in x radius. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Saiyan.1704]

Unscathed Contender: Reduced strike damage increase while under the effects of aegis from 20% to 7%. This trait now grants an additional 7% strike damage increase while you are above 90% health.

It's been a couple days and i'm trying to wrap my head around this change.... because it's a HUGE damage reduction to ALL Guard builds, with Willbender and Dragonhunter effected the most.

I can understand why they would want to remove damage from Virtues completely considering half the time you can't distinguish which treeline between Zeal and Virtues does more damage but... why not relocate that damage loss from Virtues into Zeal instead? Am I the only one who thinks Zeal could use some love especially when the damage nerf of Unscathed Contender effects all builds?

[Gaiawolf.8261]

10 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Is it really too much to ask players to think about whether or not to use a skill at the right moment? Or is being unable to simply roll your face across the keyboard using everything off cooldown now counting as "not user friendly" ?

I posted this about that on another thread. On their own, maybe, but with the tome rework and all the other hidden ICDs we have to track now on top of the mantra charges....
 

Quote

his is the primary concern. People complained enough about the old mantra system, and welcomed the simpler gameplay. Going back to the old system might add more counterplay and dynamic skill use, but on top of the tome rework, it's going to add too much complexity to a class that is popularly played by people that like simpler support builds. There are other, more complex classes already for players who prefer that.

On top of being aware of the environment and what other players are doing that all supports need to watch, a HFB especially now also has to track hidden tome skill CDs, hidden trait ICDs, hidden dormant tome effect CDs, page regen, page costs, and now mantra charges?

The class isn't becoming much weaker for skilled players, it's becoming troublesome and very clunky for the average player to manage effectively, and it seems the devs are only concerned with high level play here. If they want to use the old mantras system, they should make sure the last charge is actually worth using for more that just clutch moments, and not so punishing on accidental use of the final charge.

And for mesmers, the charge up effects need to be buffed too, which I think they are from the notes. We just don't know if they will be enough yet.

 

[Gaiawolf.8261]

10 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

This change literally doesn't take anything away from you, it only adds an option that you didn't have before. At the moment you only have option-A (use a charge every 12s), post-change you will still have option-A but also have option-B (final-charge for big effect and re-cast). Is having 2 things to choose between really going to blow your minds?

Actually, it does take away 1/3 of the uptime for the lesser charges. If you want to keep the smaller CD, now your sustain can handle 3 charges of upkeep. After the revert, you can only afford 2 charges of upkeep or you burn the final and go on long CD. Not sure how that will affect most hFB, but it will restrict the quickness uptime of hybrid cFB like celebrands and dps qFB.

[Infusion.7149]

39 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Actually, it does take away 1/3 of the uptime for the lesser charges. If you want to keep the smaller CD, now your sustain can handle 3 charges of upkeep. After the revert, you can only afford 2 charges of upkeep or you burn the final and go on long CD. Not sure how that will affect most hFB, but it will restrict the quickness uptime of hybrid cFB like celebrands and dps qFB.

Did you start playing after the mantras were changed in 2021?
Here's video refresher of the benchmarks done before they were changed:

Spoiler

Note the videos were before ritualist gear existed.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Potent_Haste/history
Potent haste is 2.5s base duration which is the same as the current iteration of Mantra of Potence

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Liberator's_Vow/history
Liberator's vow is unchanged and has been untouched.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stalwart_Speed/history
Stalwart speed has been untouched meaning if you run offhand shield you can get another trigger of 2s base duration with 7s ICD, with Unbroken Lines / Stand your Ground / "Advance" providing another potential trigger, this doesn't apply to Weighty Terms builds. Weighty Terms builds reduce ammo cooldown to 9.6s currently and it doesn't affect the recharge.

2 charges of Potent Haste is 5s total, with 40% boon duration (firebrand rune) that is 7 seconds and normally with 12 second ammo cooldown. If you use the third charge they are bring back it provides another 5 seconds of base quickness or 7 seconds extra. The cooldown if you use the third charge is going to be 25s (20s under alac) meaning if you use them in rapid succession it would be a downtime of ~6s total just using one mantra. Potent Haste is the main source of quickness especially if you preboon in fractals since it doesn't have a cooldown for quickness application.

The Liberator's Vow trait with 7s ICD provides 2s of quickness (2.8 with firebrand runes). You wouldn't spam this obviously unless under extreme pressure, cQB doesn't heal and with the tome changes if you have pages you would use tome of resolve to heal or use Unbroken Lines on any celestial hybrid build running honor traitline. In the case of running with an alacrity source that provides might you could run mace+shield and axe+torch (or the inverse setup of offhands) instead of running staff which provides two extra triggers for Stalwart Speed.

Then finally we have the possibility of either "Feel my Wrath" (3s quickness base duration which is ~4s with firebrand rune on 30s cooldown which is 24s with alac) or Mantra of Liberation for additional triggers if using Stalwart Speed (since the ammo cooldown is 30s it is unlikely you use it unless you need stability).

Firebrand was plenty strong before the changes. It will continue to be strong if you play it properly, you would have to mess up both mantras (potence and solace) to have a major quickness deficit. Plus losing quickness uptime is not the end of the world, every other spec has to deal with misplays (whether it is quickness herald, catalyst, scrapper, bladesworn/condi berserker, StM chrono, and to a lesser extent harbinger since it relies on elixir of anguish on 25s cooldown and not just shroud).