So defending is now not going to grant anything at all?

[Dayra.7405]

Instead of repair, they have to add block and damage to siege and damage to player, not a one time damage, but total damage (on player plus siege) above an threshold.

[GODh.3892]

18 hours ago, LordHT.8297 said:

As far as I've tested, you don't get credit unless you kill someone during defense.

That can't be right, because earlier today i defended our garrison, killed at least 10 of their players and i still have an unfinished "daily objective defender".

[Cernow.3974]

The usual pendulum swing over nerf. Such a lazy solution. Surely there's a middle ground?

It was obvious something needed to be done about the repair farming. But not this.

For a lot of support builds, doing a bit of repairing was a good way to ensure at least some participation. Making it essentially kills = participation hurts support players and anyone who isn't playing a build that can burst someone down.

Surely the solution here is repairing alone should never give you better than a Bronze participation, but it should at least give you something. And the waste of supplies issue could easily be addressed by only rewarding the first X amount of supplies you use to repair any given structure.

 

 

[Doggie.3184]

22 minutes ago, GODh.3892 said:

That can't be right, because earlier today i defended our garrison, killed at least 10 of their players and i still have an unfinished "daily objective defender".

Not too long ago a small group attacked Ogrewatch and I killed someone and finished them an inch from the gate, receiving wxp, while the defence event was up, and killed the rest of his group a few feet from the tower and received no credit so no it's not right. Been like that even since the patch.

I've also had a "defense failed" popup on one occasion with text stating the location we're defending, despite us wiping their zerg and them not capping anything, which I've never seen before in my wvw lifetime. ;o

Edited March 15, 2023 by Doggie.3184

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

This change is the best Anet's intern could do in the five minutes they were given to work on WvW.  I'm sure they have folks who want to do more, but its clear they're not given the time to do it. 

 

 

I'm old.  Been developing software for nearly four decades.  I know abandonment when I see it. 

[Raap.9065]

12 hours ago, Bern.9613 said:

How many millions of players are exploiting the repair wall to gain how many levels to warrant this? ANet is ever vigilant, present and has a strict rule and enforcement against bots. Right?

Good catch. They seemed to react swiftly to the, what, 2 people who may have partiality botted this mechanic (they mostly get killed anyhow), but if you go to an open world map you can bot in the same spot for months and months without even the slightest concern of a kick or ban.

I think some priorities got twisted.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Raap.9065

[Burch.5732]

The larger zergs I have been playing with all new that you had to build walls to get credit (for sure) and that is what we did.  Better not have a Tower Defense weekly if they can not get things to work correctly.  The forms have many good suggestions if the Devs would just read the post.

[Bristingr.5034]

What's even more annoying is that the devs won't even respond to our concerns on here. Hell, they've have gone radio silent for MONTHS. When was the last time they posted something that wasn't just the intern posting the Re-link Pairings or their CS Team ninja-closing threads?

When PvE gets upset about a change, they respond within a few hours and take another look at their change to see if it's worth correcting, etc.. They will make the occasional response or post in those forums, which at least shows they care about that mode. I already don't play PvE. If there's no reason for the developers to put any love into this mode, why am I still playing this game?

Edited March 16, 2023 by Bristingr.5034

[Vegeta.2563]

These changes were dumb and need to be reverted.  The only structure that people were "wasting" supply on was SMC.  Just apply it to that objective only.  Most of the time there is going to be people there to help you defend, unless your server is completely dead during off hours.

[LetoII.3782]

Field reporter checking in:

Defending alive and well. Shot by 3 arrow carts, a ballista, a catapult and 3 trebs  while I was typing this.

Obviously some reward active yet.

 

[Krabathor Deus.5432]

The problem was the 2500wxp... you should receive the same amount before reward change. It was 450? something like that...

[Doggie.3184]

6 minutes ago, Vegeta.2563 said:

These changes were dumb and need to be reverted.  The only structure that people were "wasting" supply on was SMC.  Just apply it to that objective only.  Most of the time there is going to be people there to help you defend, unless your server is completely dead during off hours.

True~ The whole thing could have been 'fixed' just by only removing outer SMC walls from giving too much rewards. It's the only walls that people generally leave down because they're destroyed too easily in all directions.

[Infusion.7149]

15 hours ago, Chaos God.1639 said:

using supplies to get exp and rewards is a waste for you? right now, it will be a waste if you do something with it that's not worth it.

the problem is still not solved after removing this. the problem is that the other players, like healers or defenders, don't get rewarded as much as the people who care more about dps.

so saying that supplies were wasted because of the defense rewards is nonsense. the main issue is still not fixed and the supplies will probably be wasted now, because the defense rewards are removed.

Read my post again.

1. SMC supplies are indeed wasted if they are used on outer. Suggesting otherwise is completely dishonest.

2. The problem is not solved because people getting out of combat means you do not get credit for the kill ; likewise destroying siege does not count. Suggesting healers do not get credit is incorrect unless you play heal scrapper and only camp med kit.

3. The finnicky credit for kills has been a problem I highlighted on this forum since when rewards first dropped in a patch. (I had used cannon twice on a blob for up to 100 tagged players and this invading blob wiped in outer keep.) This has been even highlighted above by other players.

[aspirine.6852]

11 hours ago, GODh.3892 said:

That can't be right, because earlier today i defended our garrison, killed at least 10 of their players and i still have an unfinished "daily objective defender".

Was that killing inside or outside garri?  I had the same, but inside garri kills all counted and got it. Outside while they had been out of combat it didnt count for some I read in chat.

[GODh.3892]

2 hours ago, aspirine.6852 said:

Was that killing inside or outside garri?  I had the same, but inside garri kills all counted and got it. Outside while they had been out of combat it didnt count for some I read in chat.

It was at the outer gate, as they tried to build some rams. But i was inside garri and got some kills using a mortar. The killed players were all still outside of garri. I guess that is what the problem is (this worked fine before the patch).

[Alvorada.7684]

      Guys its time to move on and chose another game, arenanet now is a puppet of ncsoft now and they give attention only to money,gems and profits on corean coins. Its ok, is the system, to things work right needs money, but its also true rinvest some profit in the product to keep working on.

     Thanks for everything and all 4 years of fun, this game brings me here happy to say Good Bye and Good luck!

[Chichimec.9364]

11 hours ago, LetoII.3782 said:

Field reporter checking in:

Defending alive and well. Shot by 3 arrow carts, a ballista, a catapult and 3 trebs  while I was typing this.

Obviously some reward active yet.

 

Similar report here. I logged into WvW during NA prime time last night and there was a lot of fighting going on around SMC as well as other keeps and towers on EBG and the other maps, with significant numbers both attacking and defending. I helped defend Bay successfully and had a lot of fun on an arrow cart. I also ran with a tag that got wiped twice while trying to take SMC. The only practical change I noticed from the latest patch is that I didn't bother to tap repair a wall to guarantee my getting Objective Defender. The fights were large enough though that I did get it from killing enemy players.

Note that this is only one person's experience on one evening. I have no idea how the larger picture will play out over time with these latest changes.

[Dayra.7405]

5 hours ago, GODh.3892 said:

The killed players were all still outside of garri. I guess that is what the problem is (this worked fine before the patch).

I think so as well: The killed player needs to be inside the defense event areaq, which is quite small, a simple dofge brings you out already. You can try yourself how large it is, when the defense event is shown/hidden on the right while moving around.

[HazyDaisy.4107]

If they are not going to fix the issue where credit is applied for actual defense, which does in fact include rebuilding  amongst the various other basic definitions of defense like killing seige fully built or partially built - because fyi you dont get credit for doing that either, disabling seige, even so little as interrupting enemy players in lieu of being able to kill them by yourself, then anets definition (whatever it may be) of defense should not exist as part of dailies or weeklies.

[Pomdepin.7068]

On 3/15/2023 at 4:55 AM, LordHT.8297 said:

As far as I've tested, you don't get credit unless you kill someone during defense. And that's a problem because it's not hard to imagine people not getting any kills on defenses. Sustain in WvW is totally out of control these days. It's basically impossible for pugs to kill big boons blobs unless you're maguma and even for them it's been a difficult task.
The sustain of these groups has gone insane (thanks to the insistent damage nerfs of pretty much every class) and to make it worse every class in the meta has some revive mechanic (which includes illusion of life which has bugs that have been exploited for nearly all guilds for longer than any reward system) so even if the poor pug manages to knock someone down he will be revived almost instantly and if not revived, the down will mist away because the meta is full of tempests, catalysts  of all kind.
So imagine being farmed for 3 hours straight and getting absolutely nothing for it. And if you are a boon blob bot, this affects you too, because if there are no rewards for TRYING, then nobody will try and you will loose your easy bags.
And I don't know how to solve it. I would say anet should just go cancel this whole new reward system and start over or maybe fix the meta or maybe both.

 

I agree but just would add that I don't think sustain is due to damage nerfs as some bursts are still insane, but rather to the multiple invulnerable, blocks, evades and such which are just too easy to be abused.

 

Some classes can easily chain 3-4 long evades, blocks and invulnerables to escape in safety without a single counterplay ! It's just very bad design I think and not fun at all.

 

As a thief main, even dagger storm is an elite I'd gladly scrap, but cannot because it's simply too good, a get out of jail free card. Many skills have changed like this one, or new ones arrived for classes on top of existing survival tools. The classes coming to mind are mesmer, elementalist and guardian. Even warriors and their old ignore pain and shield blocks now pale in comparison.

 

This is one of the worst part of the current game for me, along with mobility creep.

[Hesione.9412]

22 hours ago, Bristingr.5034 said:

What's even more annoying is that the devs won't even respond to our concerns on here. Hell, they've have gone radio silent for MONTHS. When was the last time they posted something that wasn't just the intern posting the Re-link Pairings or their CS Team ninja-closing threads?

When PvE gets upset about a change, they respond within a few hours and take another look at their change to see if it's worth correcting, etc.. They will make the occasional response or post in those forums, which at least shows they care about that mode. I already don't play PvE. If there's no reason for the developers to put any love into this mode, why am I still playing this game?

List of bugs from wiki, note how many there are for PvE, and how some of them stop progress:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_bugs

[nathanlang.8976]

On 3/15/2023 at 4:28 PM, Pifil.5193 said:

Apparently you have to kill someone who killed one of the guards or who actually knocked down a gate or wall. If they haven't got WxP for their role in the attack then they're not counted as attackers.

 

Of course they might not count as attackers anyway due to bugs.

And this is the root of the defense issue.  Defenders have NO way to know which players they have to kill to get defense participation.

 

I was running with a WvW guild run early Wednesday morning and we defended GBL Garrison 3 times. I was playing a DPS Vindicator and had multiple enemy kills inside inner Garrison which rewarded WxP and loot and also killed enemy siege golems but I only got defense credit 1 of the 3 times. Wednesday afternoon I defended Jerrifer's Tower on EBG from an enemy zerg. I built and manned a superior arrow cart which I used to kill enemy players and destroyed their siege. I still did not receive defense participation. 

 

I understand and even grudgingly agree with removing defense participation for only repairing objectives.  However, this change leaves absolutely no consistent way to achieve defense participation.  I completely agree that any defense achievements need to be removed and replaced with other achievements until Anet fixes this defense participation problem.

[Krexen.9057]

I'm fairly new to WvW, playing as a defender, because honestly what else can you do against the 55+ zerg of green?

 

So I get no participation unless I feed their zerg? This is fun? I made it to rank 22 and I already never want to play this gamemode again. This lopsided, unbalanced trash is the opposite of fun.

Do WvW they said.
It'll be fun they said.
https://tinypic.host/i/lame.36T9j

All I've known in my entire WvW experience is a green swarm eating everything. And now participation is being yanked away. Outstanding.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Krexen.9057
Adding stuff

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Yeah...how they thought it'd be a good idea to remove defense credit off repairing without compensation is beyond me.  

As long as afk-trebbing is a thing, defense repair credit should be a thing.  I don't care if people are farming repairing, need to fix the root of why they can even farm it in the first place.

I mean, regardless of farming potential, repairing IS defense, and should give defense credit. 

Anyway, not sure where new guy is taking WvW, but I don't like it (and haven't actually played WvW in close to 2 weeks).  The past few QoL changes were just bad, if you can even call them that.

[Macello.9276]

I think there was nothing wrong with how rewards were distributed previously 

It kept wvw active for years. Even pve ers were joining wvw because they could be useful

I think its important you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater!

If you don't reward defense eventually wvw will turn into a toxic tryhard shitshow for the worst of pvp players. And that will kill participation in time.

My recommendation: old distribution with much more rewards. Frankly guild wars 2 always came across to me as being super stingy with droprates anyway.