May 2 Balance Update Preview

[Barnahizi.2593]

look no one even says anything about willbender because no one plays him...

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Barnahizi.2593

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

What went through your minds with the preemptive nerf to Smash Brawler in WvW?

Asking seriously here because this makes no sense.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

What went through your minds with the preemptive nerf to Smash Brawler in WvW?

Asking seriously here because this makes no sense.

*inhale copium*

I allege that someone on the skills team got deleted by a zerker and hasnt unpacked their baggage over it.  Allegedly. 

Its the only explanation. A warrior gave someone a tragic backstory. It's a badge of honor at this point.

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Myror.7521]

@Burnfall.9573 you know that Mes allready got this with more daze skills/options in their entire Kit than any other class right?

 

Also I wouldn't mind If mirage get its second Dodge Back buuuuut not gonna lie this will never happen in PvP Mode or at least not before an overall rework of mirages dodge. It was broken not cause of perma invuln (while this was also a Bit stupid but). It was broken cause the dodge allows you to dodge while been immobilized or cced. That said I would also prefer them to buff thiefs DMG so it Finaly does dmg again and Just remove daredevils third Dodge bar. But since thief Mains would maybe cry cause of it this will also never happen ^^.

[MarzAttakz.9608]

4 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Burnfall.9573

Also I wouldn't mind If mirage get its second Dodge Back buuuuut not gonna lie this will never happen in PvP Mode or at least not before an overall rework of mirages dodge. It was broken not cause of perma invuln (while this was also a Bit stupid but). It was broken cause the dodge allows you to dodge while been immobilized or cced.

Yet Virtuoso gets to kitten out block and invulnerability like it ate a box of prunes?

Give the kittening Dodge back already, they have the code for Vindicator to prevent dodging on immobilized, just add it to Mirage dodge mechanics.

I don't know who they have working for them but they seem to fail on knowledge across the class code base.

[Asum.4960]

12 hours ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

Agreed. I think its hard to argue against the point that it was a lazy quick-fix type solution to remove a dodge from Mirage in wvw/pvp 4 years ago and never bother to update the fix to either normalize Mirage with one dodge in all 3 game modes or normalize its damage and capability with two dodges in pvp/wvw. Since they did the quick-fix 4 years ago and never did a thing since. Then additionally designed Vindicator with one dodge then a few months later decide to give it a 2nd dodge in all 3 game modes. Meanwhile, NOTHING for Mirage's 4 year old one dodge quick-fix situation. Its either lazyness or lazy incompetence.

Vindicator Dodge doesn't allow for resses, stomps and other actions while dodging, nor to dodge while CC'ed/immobilized. Nor does that spec have countless other dodges through Mirrors in it's kit, nor something like Distortion to bridge invuln time between dodges. 

That made it a lot easier to adapt/normalise.

 

Mirage is just a plain unfun and non-interactive spec to play against, and giving it it's dodge back in competitive modes would require a fairly major re-design, as in scrapping the Mirage Cloak mechanic and giving it a "cast time" akin to other Dodges, be it Base Dodge, Daredevil or Vindicator (which then would also require a rework of the Ambush mechanic). 

 

Given Anet's speed with changes, unfortunately that takes a while (if ever) - quick-fixes and band-aid changes unfortunately are the norm to stick around for years, rather than the exception.

 

[Moradorin.6217]

2 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

Vindicator Dodge doesn't allow for resses, stomps and other actions while dodging, nor to dodge while CC'ed/immobilized. Nor does that spec have countless other dodges through Mirrors in it's kit, nor something like Distortion to bridge invuln time between dodges. 

That made it a lot easier to adapt/normalise.

 

Mirage is just a plain unfun and non-interactive spec to play against, and giving it it's dodge back in competitive modes would require a fairly major re-design, as in scrapping the Mirage Cloak mechanic and giving it a "cast time" akin to other Dodges, be it Base Dodge, Daredevil or Vindicator (which then would also require a rework of the Ambush mechanic). 

 

Given Anet's speed with changes, unfortunately that takes a while (if ever) - quick-fixes and band-aid changes unfortunately are the norm to stick around for years, rather than the exception.

 

None of that matters though. What I mean is, they could also normalize pve for one dodge to its consistent so the play has continuity, if one dodge was going to stay.

 

They did a half-way quick-fix solution 4 YEARS AGO. Since EoD was released, Vindicator, etc, etc. It just needs to be addressed BADLY.

They have basically blown any integrity as a competent dev team over this issue. At the least, they are have done a bad job, so far. At worst they could be considered fully incompetent as a balance dev team. I hope they can improve.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Moradorin.6217

[Xenesis.6389]

I like how people complain about non rolling dodging while immobilized, but then we have classes that can spam resistance and aegis and stack invuls, but oh no keep the dodge away from mirage while all the other broken stuff get a free pass with no dodge penalty.  A lot has changed since that nerf 3 years ago.

They already said the dodge will be back, as now one of the balance philosophies is specs shouldn't have trade off penalties, it's just a matter of time when the balance team lead(who put the nerf there in the first place) decides to bother doing it, but he hates mesmers so maybe another year. 🤷‍♂️🙄

[Burnfall.9573]

Guild Wars: Gwen Thackeray to Guild Wars 2: Anet,

 

"If you could see your ancestors All standing in a row, Would you be proud of them or not? Or don't you really know?

 

But here's another question Which requires a different view If you could "meet" your ancestors. Would they be proud of you?"

[VulcanPyroman.8571]

Did  a quick test on staff-staff mirage and indeed as I feared, dead, unless you are an immortal god or you fancy getting ritualist gear. Very fun if you dont have full legendary. I am all for balancing the game but having to do such gear changes is such a massive pain for more casual players.

[Moradorin.6217]

4 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

I like how people complain about non rolling dodging while immobilized, but then we have classes that can spam resistance and aegis and stack invuls, but oh no keep the dodge away from mirage while all the other broken stuff get a free pass with no dodge penalty.  A lot has changed since that nerf 3 years ago.

They already said the dodge will be back, as now one of the balance philosophies is specs shouldn't have trade off penalties, it's just a matter of time when the balance team lead(who put the nerf there in the first place) decides to bother doing it, but he hates mesmers so maybe another year. 🤷‍♂️🙄

They just mentioned Mirage's other dodge was on the table in the stream. They have not touched on the subject since the Stream when they announced Vindicator was being given a 2nd dodge. (It was Oct 4th 2022 patch preview iirc). 

 

IMO it was only mentioned because of the plan to add a 2nd dodge to Vindicator in all 3 modes and since people had been complaining about one dodge Mirage for like 3 years I think CMC felt the need to, at least, mention Mirage's one dodge. That said, Im left to think that was more to head off complaints about Mirage's as they gave Vind its 2nd dodge.

 

I see no reason to think CMC has any intention of following up on that tease. Granted if CMC had integrity as a balance team lead. He sure as hell would feel the need to address it and tell people what, if anything, he has planned. Notice I said IF CMC had integrity...

 

[HotDelirium.7984]

9 hours ago, VulcanPyroman.8571 said:

Did  a quick test on staff-staff mirage and indeed as I feared, dead, unless you are an immortal god or you fancy getting ritualist gear. Very fun if you dont have full legendary. I am all for balancing the game but having to do such gear changes is such a massive pain for more casual players.

All that ritualist gear to go from 2.5 sec of alac to 5 sec of alac. Much value! My chrono gives more alac....

So we go from doing good strike/ condi dmg, enough alac with a mild annoyance of relying on clones to only condi dmg on MANDATORY full ritualist gear and STILL relying on clones. Balanced yet?!?!?!

Edited May 4, 2023 by HotDelirium.7984

[Sylvar.9634]

I was already running full ritualist gear on my staff-staff alac mirage and struggled with alac uptime compared to other alac specs.  Now you've gone and nerfed it into the ground 🙄 very nice Anet , way to kill a spec.

[Mike.7983]

13 minutes ago, Sylvar.9634 said:

I was already running full ritualist gear on my staff-staff alac mirage and struggled with alac uptime compared to other alac specs.  Now you've gone and nerfed it into the ground 🙄 very nice Anet , way to kill a spec.

Yup full legendary armor etc everything all ritualist with boon duration sigils on top and still cant alac, kicked out of runs now.  Never have I ever been kicked on alac mirage and it feels terrible.  Calling on devs to revert this deathblow to alac as there is no way to salvage via gear now.  Anyone commenting with gear better has to understand nothing tops ritualist now for alac mirage and even that fails.  80% boon duration is now 1.75 seconds and 3/4 per clone, why bother alac ren can pop 1 button for a pulsed alac now without needing clones.  My fav low intensity build / main between virtuoso is dead and its sad.  All the effort to collect all gen 3 staff variants down the drain

Edited May 4, 2023 by Mike.7983

[Jski.6180]

Why nerf ele only ranged dps weapon in wvw the game type that is most punishing for making ranged base classes go into melee?

[Burnfall.9573]

On 5/3/2023 at 2:59 AM, Myror.7521 said:

@Burnfall.9573 you know that Mes allready got this with more daze skills/options in their entire Kit than any other class right?

 

Also I wouldn't mind If mirage get its second Dodge Back buuuuut not gonna lie this will never happen in PvP Mode or at least not before an overall rework of mirages dodge. It was broken not cause of perma invuln (while this was also a Bit stupid but). It was broken cause the dodge allows you to dodge while been immobilized or cced. That said I would also prefer them to buff thiefs DMG so it Finaly does dmg again and Just remove daredevils third Dodge bar. But since thief Mains would maybe cry cause of it this will also never happen ^^.

 

To be honest, I am totally for Mesmer Profession having anything else but confusion/daze condition and quickens; nothing more. 

 

I am even totally against Mesmer Profession having access to stealth mechanic, immobilize and clones. 

 

The real Mesmer Profession did not have any of those and did not have any need for it because, it is not their role and their identity.

 

-Here this is the real Mesmer Profession-

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mesmer

 

Instead of Anet Honoring and Respecting Mesmer Profession; Origin, Root with their identity, They created a mix of ideals borrowed from Thief Profession(Stealth) and combined their ideals form other Profession concepts than created a Profession called; Mesmer Profession.

 

Guild Wars 2: Mesmer Profession is a fabricated  Mesmer; having absolute nothing to do with the real Mesmer except with giving it a Pink Aura color. 

 

Even going as far as giving this fabricated Mesmer access to clones...something that real Mesmer would laugh at.

 

Until Anet is serious enough in removing every thing that does not belong to this Mesmer than return everything that belong to the real Mesmer... to its name.

 

Expect nothing to change.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

As for Thief Profession.... my track history, says it all 🙂

--

Spoiler

Delete Thief 😇

 

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[HotDelirium.7984]

5 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

 

To be honest, I am totally for Mesmer Profession having anything else but confusion/daze condition and quickens; nothing more. 

 

I am even totally against Mesmer Profession having access to stealth mechanic, immobilize and clones. 

 

The real Mesmer Profession did not have any of those and did not have any need for it because, it is not their role and their identity.

 

-Here this is the real Mesmer Profession-

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mesmer

 

Instead of Anet Honoring and Respecting Mesmer Profession; Origin, Root with their identity, They created a mix of ideals borrowed from Thief Profession(Stealth) and combined their ideals form other Profession concepts than created a Profession called; Mesmer Profession.

 

Guild Wars 2: Mesmer Profession is a fabricated  Mesmer; having absolute nothing to do with the real Mesmer except with giving it a Pink Aura color. 

 

Even going as far as giving this fabricated Mesmer access to clones...something that real Mesmer would laugh at.

 

Until Anet is serious enough in removing every thing that does not belong to this Mesmer than return everything that belong to the real Mesmer... to its name.

 

Expect nothing to change.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

As for Thief Profession.... my track history, says it all 🙂

--

  Reveal hidden contents

Delete Thief 😇

 

 

I always felt stealth on a mesmer is so wierd and out of theme and mass invisability has like 1 wvw zerg use and thats it. They should overhall that.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

4 hours ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

I always felt stealth on a mesmer is so wierd and out of theme and mass invisability has like 1 wvw zerg use and thats it. They should overhall that.

I know right? What's invisibility doing on an illusionist themed character? So out of touch. /s

[SleepyBat.9034]

On 4/21/2023 at 2:33 PM, Dahkeus.8243 said:

The elementalist changes here are far from significant enough to address the performance of Catalysts in small group/roaming scenarios.  Fresh Air is far from the only problem with this over-performing because even without the Air traitline, a celestial scepter catalyst can quickly stack 25 might and 10-20 stacks of burning on a target with most of that coming from the auto attack. 

I would suggest at the very least reducing the burn stacks on scepter or at least slowing the cast time.  The power damage could even be increased to offset this to some degree if needed.

Right, people threw such a fit that engineer rifle 1 was over performing so anet gutted it and here you have Catalyst doing the same thing and it's a non-projectile attack too.

[Burnfall.9573]

3 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I know right? What's invisibility doing on an illusionist themed character? So out of touch. /s

 

In the beginning, there were only two Profession who had access to Stealth Mechanic; Mesmer Profession and Thief Profession.

 

Perma-Stealth Thief Profession was already troublesome while Mesmer Profession with Stealth Mechanic, was limitied

 

---here is an old video of their differences using Perma-Stealth---

 

Now, years later; nearly every Professions have access to Stealth Mechanic.

 

Why couldn't Anet just leave at it is, with making it Unique only to Thief Profession and Mesmer Profession?

 

With eventually removing Stealth Mechanic from Mesmer Profession and giving it entirely to Thief Profession ; who is supposedly a "Rogue" Profession?

 

My Question For Anet Is,.... "Is It So Wrong For A Profession To Be Unique In Its Own Way In Having Their Own Roles With Their Identity To Itself....Like Class/Profession Diversity?

 

Why is it obvious that there is a strong push against Class/Profession Diversity?

 

What are the motives behind hating Class/Profession Diversity? 

 

--compared with Guild Wars 2--

Class/Profession Diversity, Uniqueness, Roles, Identity, Build With PvP In Mind....With Hardcore Players In Mind....Long Term Reward Structure....Endless Contents....Learning Curve........Fun.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[HotDelirium.7984]

10 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I know right? What's invisibility doing on an illusionist themed character? So out of touch. /s

Yes, with the power of our minds lets make something nobody can see! Invisibility gameplay is just SO FUN!!! :D! /s

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by HotDelirium.7984

[Jzaku.9765]

Please extend Utility skill flexibility to ALL builds.

The latest Studio update has this quote in the balance bullet points:

Quote

Improving the feeling of moment-to-moment gameplay for many boon support builds. We want these builds to have more flexibility in their utility skill choice, and not be required to press a particular utility type on cooldown to provide quickness or alacrity.

Boon support builds are not the only builds that seriously suffer from pressing utility skills off-CD. If you consider this a bad-feeling moment-to-moment gameplay, please consider these other builds. Just for the Warrior class alone:

• Berserker has to press their Rage utility class off-CD to extend Berserk or lose it for a massive DPS loss. This problem was made worse in this very same patch because you added 15% crit chance only while in Berserk. This means that the opportunity cost for NOT doing this shot even higher than it already was.
• Bladesworn has to slot and press exactly [Flow Stabilizer][Dragonspike Mine] and [Tactical Reload] on their bar basically off-cd to execute the DPS rotation you have balanced the espec around. [Overcharged Cartridges] almost literally says "Do 15% more damage" so despite being a sad self-buff skill with absolutely no class fantasy, it might as well be mandatory as well. 
• Shout Healing in general falls into this exact category as well where the shout skills themselves don't matter. It might be a working premise in PVP but it translates extremely badly to PVE. If (and i really hope this is the case) there are efforts to create a functional Support Warrior build in the future, please consider having Shout Heal not be a part of it, unnecessarily taxing our utility slots. 

[Saucy.1547]

On 4/21/2023 at 11:39 AM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

"Fervent Force is a trait that we've been considering bringing down for a while now, and in this update we're making a slight adjustment to its cooldown reduction in order to bring down the damage output of builds that utilize it. We'll be keeping a close eye on how these builds perform going forward and will make additional adjustments as needed.

Untamed Fervent Force: Reduced cooldown reduction from 4 seconds to 3 seconds in PvE only."

This is an absolute shame, as Fervent Force has become the identifying, must have trait, in the Untamed Line. The Fervent Force cooldown reduction rewards Rangers for using all of the various disable traits that have amazing Synergy with all the disable based traits throughout the Ranger trait trees, as well as creates some unique opportunities to use off meta elite skills such as the summons (Mistwolf, Hounds, etc...) when using a heavy disable  based build. Fervent force with a 4 second reduction enabled a variety of off meta builds that allowed a wide variety of Untamed play styles in the theme of the GW2 "play your way" motif. Simply stated, the 3 second version of Fervent Force lacks the viability to support those off meta builds. As a result the the only competitive way to continue to play the Untamed is now conform to the play style of the previous meta builds that made it necessary to nerf Fervent Force. I will absolutely acknowledge there were builds available that needed to be tuned down, but a direct nerf to Fervent Force (the class identity) was not the best way to do it in PvE. PvP and WvW having shorter Fervent Force durations makes sense. PvP is wildly hit and run in nature; there simply isn't as much need for a "sustain" mechanic for a prolonged fight in these styles of gameplay (and honestly I don't think it will help competitive gameplay be more fun to make the Untamed the equivalent of WoW's stun lock rogue if the full duration Fervent Force was available in these game modes).  

•            Addressing the previous Meta Untamed builds, Fervent Force needed to change as it existed in the pre-May 2nd patch. Fervent Force is so core to Untamed gameplay it should have been retuned as a minor trait or just baked straight into the unleased ability itself, then tuned from there. Fervent Force is just that core to the Untamed gameplay, that the other traits Grandmaster Traits just couldn't be chosen previously. It makes more sense to establish Fervent Force as a minor trait mechanic, and update the Grandmaster trait options.

•               There were so many better ways to address the few raid builds and fractal builds that were over-tuned. Here are a number of suggestions that could have accomplished an Untamed tune without quiet killing the Untamed:

• (1) Rework Storm Spirit to remove the Daze effect or change the frequency of usage (this is essentially designed specifically for Untamed and was a core mechanic of the meta builds)

• (2) change the value of Fervent Force to be a passive effect based on if the pet or the ranger was unleashed (especially since this has synergy with the core playstyle of the hammer skills as they are currently designed) 

• (3) Retune hammer to achieve a more balanced meta experience with the 3 second version of Fervent Force

• (4) Change the Untamed traits in regards to Fervent Force (minor trait 3 seconds of the ability and trait into an additional 1 seconds in a Grand Master trait with another companion effect).

•             Fervent Force was the core skill responsible for creating fun and inventive Untamed gameplay, nerfing the ability without balancing the elite spec as a whole is essentially the same as quiet killing the specialization until a later patch. 
   

 

 

 

[Lalary.3561]

Why the kitten do you nerf Arc Divider that nobody cried about and yet not touching Gun Flame that can literally one shot someone from 1500 range in WvW?

[Moradorin.6217]

Still waiting to see Mirage's dodge normalized between game modes.