How does Guild Wars 2 not even make top 100 games of all time?!?!

[Doggie.3184]

I didn't see Suikoden 2 or Dragons Dogma on the list so these 'experts' are very uninformed normies. 

GW2 is cool and all but MMOs generally don't beat single player games in writing and gameplay. FFXIV is the only exception due to it's S tier writing and likeable characters surpassing what most single-player RNGs offer. I'm not sure what WoW offers though other than it's ugly art style since I've never played it cause of that. 

[Danikat.8537]

42 minutes ago, Doggie.3184 said:

I didn't see Suikoden 2 or Dragons Dogma on the list so these 'experts' are very uninformed normies. 

GW2 is cool and all but MMOs generally don't beat single player games in writing and gameplay. FFXIV is the only exception due to it's S tier writing and likeable characters surpassing what most single-player RNGs offer. I'm not sure what WoW offers though other than it's ugly art style since I've never played it cause of that. 

Considering Breath of the Wild is top of the list I don't think GW2 would be disqualified because of the writing. (And I say that as a massive Zelda fan and lore nerd, who counts BotW as one of my favourite games.) 

[Randulf.7614]

1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said:

Considering Breath of the Wild is top of the list I don't think GW2 would be disqualified because of the writing. (And I say that as a massive Zelda fan and lore nerd, who counts BotW as one of my favourite games.) 

(psst.. ToTK is even better!)

Ahem.. and yeah GW2 is really good. Actually, I wouldn’t exclude GW1 from a top list. It’s a smaller game, but I’d bet it on being more influential 

[Danikat.8537]

2 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

(psst.. ToTK is even better!)

Ahem.. and yeah GW2 is really good. Actually, I wouldn’t exclude GW1 from a top list. It’s a smaller game, but I’d bet it on being more influential 

Oh don't get me started. I'm telling myself I'm reserving judgement on TotK because I haven't gotten far enough to make a decision, but I've done almost nothing else since Friday and haven't gotten far enough because I've gotten side-tracked with a ton of stuff, which for me is a very good sign.

Unsurprisingly I had the same 'problem' with both GW1 and 2, with the added complication of making multiple characters on day 1. I've mentioned this a lot on here but discovering an MMO that works with my erratic schedule was a big relevation and one where I felt rewarded for 'wasting' time poking into every obscure corner and talking to every named NPC is even better.

[Doggie.3184]

18 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

Considering Breath of the Wild is top of the list I don't think GW2 would be disqualified because of the writing. (And I say that as a massive Zelda fan and lore nerd, who counts BotW as one of my favourite games.) 

That applies to Dragons Dogma too, and Dark Souls~ when gameplay and exploration exceeds all others

[Danikat.8537]

1 hour ago, Doggie.3184 said:

That applies to Dragons Dogma too, and Dark Souls~ when gameplay and exploration exceeds all others

Good point.

I'm annoyed that it took me so long to find out Dark Souls is something I'd be interested in. When it first came out all I heard about was how insanely difficult the combat was. It seemed to be a game people played entirely so they could brag about having done it, often it seemed like they didn't actually enjoy it, they just wanted to get through it so they could say they had. It took years before I encountered anyone talking about the world and the story and even longer to find out it's exactly the kind of 'implied story telling' I enjoy piecing together.

I suspect it's the same with a lot of people and games, especially these days. There are literally hundreds of games coming out on Steam and other platforms every week, it's impossible to keep track of all of them and I often wonder how many get missed by people who would love them.

I only found out about Guild Wars 1 because I happened to see my brother playing it and the charr caught my attention. If he'd been doing something different that day I might have missed what became one (and later two) of my favourite games for even longer. Or for that matter if he'd just told me it was an online game and hadn't mentioned there was no subscription and you could play solo.

[Gravitron.7982]

On 5/12/2023 at 9:30 AM, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

I think any game that has enough content that players will happily sink thousands of hours into it is clearly a good candidate for a top X of all time list - there is actually a fraction of 1% of games in this category..  GW2 impact is also significant but very subtle, it was arguably the first AAA Fantasy MMORPG that has evolved past the gear treadmill style MMORP and no pay to win and thrived.

 

GW2 also
 

- Created the first AAA quality mmorpg that had no sub and no pay to win to substitute.  At the time many doubted this model would even sustain the game.

- Really cracked the toxicity issues by building on the GW1 approach of being horizontal and collection /skin based that is not open world PVP based.  This was massive, people forget at the time of GW2 release we had WOW, RIFT and a few others all where you had to schedule time to simply keep up with the power curve.

- In addition to the above, over time skills and weapons have grown horizontally.  Compare to games like WOW where every year there is a major reset as the game attempts repeatedly to workaround the power curve issues that vertical games have.

- Shared nodes in world, dynamic events.  There are still events running today that people were playing 10 years ago and still play today.  Other games have this, but generally they have a short lifecycvle because of the power curve issues not present in GW2.

- No performance issues, no server down time, everything just works.  Checkout ESO if you want to see how other MMORPG struggle with performance,

 

Idk I get better performance playing ESO than GW2. 

[Bladestrom.6425]

9 hours ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

Idk I get better performance playing ESO than GW2. 

strange considering the ESO developers themselves have acknowledged that performance is bad and server side and that they are currently over a year into a programme to try and fix problems that have been in place since year 1.

[enigmatic.3576]

On 5/10/2023 at 6:05 PM, Randulf.7614 said:

Nor is it top 100. It’s very good, but several others in the franchise are better. It exists on these lists because of its technical accomplishments 

It's the highest rated and best selling game of the franchise.  Nearly every gaming publication lists it as the best game of the franchise.  The recently released sequel is projected to surpass it. 

I also saw you defending the position that Tetris was placed for the very same reason that I gave.

On 5/11/2023 at 5:31 AM, Randulf.7614 said:

I wouldn’t overlook Tetris. It’s one of the biggest selling games of all time (100million across all formats ever), one of the most influential and a genuinely excellent short burst, addictive puzzle game. For it not to be near the top would invalidate the list for many

Edited May 19, 2023 by enigmatic.3576

[DexterousGecko.6328]

'top 100' lists are always a bit odd, because there's often a disconnect between profit, influence, current public opinion, etc. If I played Super Mario Bros in 2023 I doubt I'd be able to stand more than a couple of levels, but it's undeniably one of the most influential games of all time. Does that put it on the top 100 list? Probably?

[Randulf.7614]

16 minutes ago, enigmatic.3576 said:

It's the highest rated and best selling game of the franchise.  Nearly every gaming publication lists it as the best game of the franchise.  The recently released sequel is projected to surpass it. 

I also saw you defending the position that Tetris was placed for the very same reason that I gave.

True, but sales was only one point I made to defend Tetris, not the exclusive reason. Tetris is also the very best of its genre, highly influential and set the standard. BotW might have the reviews and decent sales, but as a game it’s weaker than many previous entries, regardless of the meta critic score (don’t get me wrong, it is very good still). It is not a number one of all time title. I’m not sure what is, but it’s not BotW. 

Tetris is on another level in terms of sales, in terms of cultural significance, in terms of influence and global appeal and in terms of lastability. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Randulf.7614

[Bladestrom.6425]

top 100 of all time is a weird concept, what works much better is a hall of fame approach.  For example space invaders and pacman are obviously great contenders, but looking now at them they are insignificant little chunks of software. Now look at a game like civilisation, its also very very old, but it has aged well and is still an amazing game.  You would be struggling to put pacman/space invaders in a top 10, but hall of fame without a doubt.

 

 

[Nilkemia.8507]

Why should the Top 100 list of some game magazine/site mean anything to any of us?

[JTGuevara.9018]

So...on these types of clickbaity lists I scroll directly to number 1 to get a sense of the author's judgement. And well...that says it all lmao! (#1)Zelda: Breath of the Wild. Now, I never played it myself, but more astute reviewers gave it 7/10.  Hardly a score reflecting the so-called "greatest of all time".

The Super Mario games are too low on the list. Final Fantasy VI at number 73 is just comical and should be WAAYY higher. Dark Souls does not even deserve to SNIFF the top 20. Also even more egregious: Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars is not there at all. But yet Fortnite is....yeah, ok...

But let me get to gw2!

gw2, to me, is fine not being on the list. It is essentially an mmo based off of WoW like all the others. It does not have enough to stand out from mmos, never mind other game genres.

[Bladestrom.6425]

3 hours ago, DexterousGecko.6328 said:

'top 100' lists are always a bit odd, because there's often a disconnect between profit, influence, current public opinion, etc. If I played Super Mario Bros in 2023 I doubt I'd be able to stand more than a couple of levels, but it's undeniably one of the most influential games of all time. Does that put it on the top 100 list? Probably?

 

1 hour ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

So...on these types of clickbaity lists I scroll directly to number 1 to get a sense of the author's judgement. And well...that says it all lmao! (#1)Zelda: Breath of the Wild. Now, I never played it myself, but more astute reviewers gave it 7/10.  Hardly a score reflecting the so-called "greatest of all time".

The Super Mario games are too low on the list. Final Fantasy VI at number 73 is just comical and should be WAAYY higher. Dark Souls does not even deserve to SNIFF the top 20. Also even more egregious: Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars is not there at all. But yet Fortnite is....yeah, ok...

But let me get to gw2!

gw2, to me, is fine not being on the list. It is essentially an mmo based off of WoW like all the others. It does not have enough to stand out from mmos, never mind other game genres.

GW2 was not based on WOW or the mmorpg that WOW cloned, that's what makes GW2 interesting, in fact if you look at all the AAA mmorpg in the last15 years the only one that really stands out as being different is GW2.

[JTGuevara.9018]

1 hour ago, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

 

GW2 was not based on WOW or the mmorpg that WOW cloned, that's what makes GW2 interesting, in fact if you look at all the AAA mmorpg in the last15 years the only one that really stands out as being different is GW2.

FF14 blows all these other so-called "AAA" mmorpgs out of the water. ESO, Black Desert, all of them. gw2 is but another of the free-to-play, theme-park mmorpgs that are already out there. Sure, gw2 has some interesting aspects (open-world events, wvw, the art direction) but fundamentally it is still based off of the theme-park mmo model popularized by WoW.

[Gravitron.7982]

12 hours ago, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

strange considering the ESO developers themselves have acknowledged that performance is bad and server side and that they are currently over a year into a programme to try and fix problems that have been in place since year 1.

ESO has been on DX11 for years now, GW2 JUST got on DX11. The performance issues you're referring to are server side. Client side, I am at the 240 fps cap most of the time. In major towns like mournhold, my DPS dips to like 220 or 200. The main FPS dips are in Cyrodiil in a giant fight. 

In GW2 it seems my DPS will dip down to the hundreds when simply entering an EOD zone. My %1 lows seem to dip a lot more often in GW2 than in ESO, and ESO has a better looking engine. ZOS has upgraded some of their server hardware for their NA mega server. I don't believe GW2 has any sort of plans, as they probably have no budget for it. 

 

[Gravitron.7982]

2 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

FF14 blows all these other so-called "AAA" mmorpgs out of the water. ESO, Black Desert, all of them. gw2 is but another of the free-to-play, theme-park mmorpgs that are already out there. Sure, gw2 has some interesting aspects (open-world events, wvw, the art direction) but fundamentally it is still based off of the theme-park mmo model popularized by WoW.

I'm played FF14 before, and I just can't agree with you there.  It's a pretty cookie cutter tab-target MMORPG, with all their maps being zone off from each other. That game was load screen city. I get that people like how it simplifies tab-target combat by not making you put 39 spells on your bars (EQ2....) but yeah...I just always felt like why play the clone when I can just log into WoW and play the real thing. 

[Gravitron.7982]

4 hours ago, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

 

GW2 was not based on WOW or the mmorpg that WOW cloned, that's what makes GW2 interesting, in fact if you look at all the AAA mmorpg in the last15 years the only one that really stands out as being different is GW2.

I don't know, both ESO and GW2 took the RvR pvp system from DAoC and injected it into their game. I believe WoW took inspiration from it, applied some of the same designs into their version of battlegrounds, minus a 3rd faction or realm or world. 

[Bladestrom.6425]

16 hours ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

I don't know, both ESO and GW2 took the RvR pvp system from DAoC and injected it into their game. I believe WoW took inspiration from it, applied some of the same designs into their version of battlegrounds, minus a 3rd faction or realm or world. 

Maybe. i was however saying that GW2 is not based on WOW, which has entirely different principles in play.

Edited May 20, 2023 by vesica tempestas.1563

[Kozumi.5816]

On 5/10/2023 at 6:03 PM, Solomon Darkfury.3729 said:

This list is awful...

 

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/best-video-games-all-time

Because the game has been in maint mode since PoF release.

[Gravitron.7982]

4 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Because the game has been in maint mode since PoF release.

Pretty much lol

[kharmin.7683]

5 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Because the game has been in maint mode since PoF release.

Releasing new content and making profession adjustments is not maintenance mode.

[Poormany.4507]

6 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Because the game has been in maint mode since PoF release.

How exactly is GW2 in maintenance mode? GW2 has had a full 2 Living World seasons + expansion +LWS1 revival released since PoF and is currently releasing new content, including a new expansion soon without any end in sight. Maintenance mode is GW1's state right now since soon after GW2's release, with no new content being released, but the servers kept running for players to still be able to play.

[Tiviana.2650]

Umm its GQ not a gamer rag lol