I'm tired of extremely high level characters tearing through low level zones.

[drachehexe.6425]

It's not just in this game, almost every MMO I've played in the last couple of years always had high level characters making new character sin that zone struggle to finish quests and special encounters.  I am pretty much a GW2 noob.  I had several 60ish level characters a while back but came back to the game just this last week and decided to start over so I created a new character and deleted all my old ones. 

Now I am going through starting zones and have several times encountered extremely high leveled players just tearing up the zone killing everything in one shot leaving nothing for new character to do, including the special event encounters where there is no time to engage and be a part of the event to get the rewards, not to mention how boring the event is anyways even with rewards because it ends almost instantly with these selfish players just dropping them so quickly.   And they are EVERYWHERE almost all the time.  While I've seen this in other games like WoW, ESO, and others it's the most egregious and disruptive in this game.

It doesn't help that most of these arrogant, selfish players are not in the least apologetic.  Why is this behavior allowed?  Why aren't these super high leveled characters banned from starting areas, or at least unable to interfere with new players?  They're stealing all the fun out of the early stages.

Edited May 29, 2023 by drachehexe.6425

[AliamRationem.5172]

They have just as much right to be there as you do.  Unlike other MMOs, in GW2 there are reasons for max level players to be in lower level zones.  I think it would be better if ANet rebalanced the downscaling to make it more appropriate to what max level stats actually are, but don't blame the players for that.

[Shuzuru.3651]

Well, to be fair, even at low level, you're tearing enemies on the starter area... Almost as fast as a max level character.

It's simply that core enemies are way too fragile.

But in the end, most of the time, you only need one hit to tag a mob, so unless you're full melee, that's not really a problem. 

Also, high level character are often there for a good reason, may it be daily, collection or map completion, it's not griefing at all.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

this isn't just due to high level players, its also because of repeated nerfs to central tyria because in their testing arenanet decided newer players couldn't handle the difficulty of things like "skills" and "water". this isn't sarcasm, they literally tested the game on a group of inexperienced players and determined they just couldn't handle the difficulty of the leveling zones.

 

enemies now get destroyed in seconds even by low-level players wearing only masterwork gear. the bar just dropped way too low and they never brought it back up.

Edited May 29, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Lanfear De Noir.9127]

I take my high-level characters into low-level areas because I HAVE to. There are things I need to do there like collect hero points (you need those to level up your Specialisations EG: a Necromancers Reaper skill). You need to do this by going to low-level areas you have never been to before (EG: you are a Charr and you go to all other 'non-Charr' low-level areas)...

(OK... I just found out that hero points in hight-level areas, EG: from the expansions, are worth MORE. I did not know this as I am a new player... I thought all hero points were equal... lol... but the reasons below are still relevant.)

Other Reasons for high level players in low level areas are...

1... players doing map completion

2... players doing dailies

3... specific events are happening on those maps (a boss)

4... gathering materials

When I do this I have to get at least 1 hit on the npc/mob so I am able to get credit... sadly, 1 hit CAN kill them. I try my hardest NOT to kill them if another low-level player is there...but it can't be helped.

This is 1 reason you see high-level players in low-level areas... So be mindful of this as they NEED to be there too.

PLUS... Their level is downscaled for that area, they may be level 80, but they are playing as a lower level. Maybe Arenanet need to scale the level down a bit more.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Lanfear De Noir.9127

[Sobx.1758]

22 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I think it would be better if ANet rebalanced the downscaling to make it more appropriate to what max level stats actually are

Yup, I think they should take a look at the low lvl zones' scaling of the high level players. Put a hard cap on the character stats in low lvl zones if needed.

[Lanfear De Noir.9127]

Other games have low-level areas that are like a ghost town because there is no reason for a high-level player to be there.  It can be a long time before you see another player there and that experience is awful for beginning players. It feels like there are no other people playing the game.

Thankfully Arenanet has solved the problem of no one being there in low-level areas, by populating them with higher-level players that need to do tasks in that area.  Without these tasks, these areas would be empty.

GW2 is well-designed in this aspect.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Lanfear De Noir.9127

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

Look, I don't want to be in there as much as you do, but ANet makes it so I need to do these random events in those zones or complete these heart tasks for the [uncountable] amount of times, or there's a big boss meta there.  It's no fun watching these level 2-14 mobs die in a single hit.  They provide no challenge, aren't fun to farm, and the only saving grace is that usually whatever I need in a zone is easy enough to grab and go.

Some advice, though, try partying up with high level people.  As long as you get some damage on the target, buff or heal your friend who deals damage to a target, or throw down combo fields while they use combo finishers.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

I agree with those who say the overall design is good, I love that there are still people in the various low level zones.

However, I agree with OP that high level players kill things too fast. I think it would be great if they changed the scaling so that high level players with strong builds get scaled down a bit more.

[Solvar.7953]

One thing downscaling doesn't take into account is that low level characters just don't have as many skill slots available.  Maybe they changed this in the past few years, but it used to be you had to be at least level X to unlock offhand weapons or some of the utility slots.  This means that a high level player that is downscaled to exactly the same stats as that other player still has an advantage because they have more skills to use.

Though in fairness, high level characters would probably mow through the stuff, simply because they have optimized builds & gear, and new players not so much.

 

[Veprovina.4876]

3 hours ago, drachehexe.6425 said:

Why is this behavior allowed?  Why aren't these super high leveled characters banned from starting areas, or at least unable to interfere with new players?  They're stealing all the fun out of the early stages.

Might not seem like it, but a lot of events in starting areas are required for endgame content, or are profitable (ley line anomaly), so they go there, wait it out, and do random low level events in the meantime.

Or do collections, or something else, there's tons of stuff that returns you to starter maps.

It's not their fault, it's just that Anet introduced a massive power creep, but never bothered to adjust the damage scaling from new skills and high level gear in lower level zones.

[kharmin.7683]

Why is the OP hanging out in low level areas?

[Linken.6345]

10 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Why is the OP hanging out in low level areas?

Well they did say that they had lvl 60 characters before but deleted them all and started over when they returned so they might still be low level?

[Endaris.1452]

3 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I think it would be better if ANet rebalanced the downscaling to make it more appropriate to what max level stats actually are, but don't blame the players for that.

 

I just compared what my level 80 Power Holo with full ascended including infusions gets downscaled to level 23 compared to a level 23 ele I have that is clad in the level 18 exotic berserker light armor and adequate 2-slot runes giving zerker stats and green/blue power trinkets in a level adequate area (weaker non-soulbound ones cause I use them for key character).

Level 23 Ele
Running Fire trait line with the two minors being in effect plus Burning Precision + Burning Rage, not skilled further
Running Signet of Fire

353 Power, 359 Precision (59.16% crit rate), 101 Ferocity (189.2% crit damage), 66 Condition Damage

Staff AA in fire on the ele crits between 650 and 828 damage on level 20 wolves in the zone (east of Hrothgar's Pass in Snowden Drift) while also inflicting 64 burning damage.

Level 80 Power Holo (downscaled to 23)
Running Explosives/Firearms/Holo with meta power DPS gear (power infusions inclusive) and traits

267 Power, 221 Precision (20.83% crit rate), 74 Ferocity (178.7% crit damage), 0 Condition Damage

Rifle AA crits between 586 and 693 damage on a wolf. (I switched AAR to the ferocity stacking trait to separate the numbers better)
With a bit of vuln and fulfilling some trait conditions (explosive temper, no scope, big boomer, class cannon etc.), up to 830 seem possible.

So obviously, raw stats for higher level characters ARE lower than for lower level ones, even to the degree of reaching level with a lower level character with a cohesive stat build.

And I think that's where half the issue is buried, it's simply not common nor necessary for low level characters to acquire adequately statted gear. Granted, the level 18 exotic gear is an outlier but based on what I've read, the lower level character would still come out at least even if it wore level 20 masterwork gear having only a single stat.

The other half is definitely traits. Empowering Flame gives 43 power to the ele (150 on level 80) and No Scope gives 43 ferocity to the engi (150 on level 80), so while gear is appropriately nerfed, level 80 characters obviously enjoy the full benefits of having 3 unnerfed traitlines at their disposal.

Finally others already mentioned powercreep. Various weapons received rather massive buffs and just deal a lot more damage than they used. In combination with that powercreep I want to add that extra hit effects such as Explosive Entrance and AAR are extremely powerful in lower level areas and the main reason why the engi can actually oneshot wolves with crits. Even something like a Minor Sigil of Air has a massive contribution to oneshotting mobs, dealing more than 1/3 the damage of a critical hit on the AA. With some luck the mentioned ele managed to oneshot a level 19 snow griffon with a single staff autoattack, dealing 839 with Fireball, 307 with Lightning Strike (the name of the sigil damage) and 106 with the following burning tick.

I suppose the solution would be to either restrict the amount of traitlines to an area adequate amount or scale down their effects based on what would be the area adequate amount. So for No Scope, maybe give 43/3 = 14.3 Ferocity instead of the full 43, have Big Boomer only increase damage by 15/3 = 5% etc.

Maybe that would still not be enough as 3 traitlines offer much better boon access than a single one and boons are kind of OP (especially fury if you look at the critrates). Might give it the same treatment on durations which could just make some builds feel insanely bad so not sure if there's a good way to go about this.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Endaris.1452
added thoughts on boons

[Zebulous.2934]

Hmm I use equipment templates for fashion. The templates are just filled with white equips that have been transmuted.  Since templates cost real money, it probably isn't the answer for most high level players. Still, I can smurf in a starter zone without 1hko anything.  If only each character had a free equipment template we could all fight in starter zones while wearing fabulous garbage!

[Chichimec.9364]

3 hours ago, drachehexe.6425 said:

...It doesn't help that most of these arrogant, selfish players are not in the least apologetic...

Back in my early days in GW2, I remember escorting Mona in Queensdale to Claypool with several other players. With my new level 80 character and my new mount, I was jumping into the attacking mobs and almost single-handedly wiping them out. Another player called me out in map chat saying it was rude to act that way in a beginner zone. My initial reaction was "kitten you, you can't tell me how to play the game". I thought about it though and I realized that other player was right - my behavior really was selfish and rude. Ever since then, I've tried to go easy when I have a level 80 alt in a low level zone. Yesterday I was doing dailies in the Caledon Forest on a level 80 alt. Throwing up a mentor tag when I found an event, I'd call it out in map chat and during the event itself would just hit enough enemies to tag in, then would stop fighting. In my case, it just took someone pointing out that I was being a jerk. One caution though. I've also seen some toxic fights blow up in map chat when one player tried to call out the behavior of another player.

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

5 hours ago, drachehexe.6425 said:

high leveled players just tearing up the zone killing everything in one shot leaving nothing for new character to do

I can do that with a low-level character too. My recommendation? Stay away from people who can do that.

[Endaris.1452]

1 hour ago, Chichimec.9364 said:

With my new level 80 character and my new mount, I was jumping into the attacking mobs and almost single-handedly wiping them out.

Honestly, this is anet's fault for making these mount skills ridiculously overpowered. You don't even have to try with that to oneshot stuff while it's also the most convenient thing for mobility.

I mentioned earlier how my elitist geared level 23 ele managed to oneshot a level 19 mob with a fire staff auto.

In comparison, traited raptor mount skill deals six times the base damage and double the damage scaling from your power in a bigger area on more targets while also applying CC on effectively no cooldown (as long as you get out of combat). Who did ever think this was a good idea?

In my opinion all mount skills could deal 0 damage and they would still be really good, especially considering they also give you protection and swiftness along with whatever special side effect the specific mount offers.

[Khisanth.2948]

It doesn't require a high level character. Low level decked out in greens could do the same. The problem is that if they tuned the mobs so that it is a challenge for the fully decked out characters it will be pretty much impossible for the "I have random pieces equipped and some slots are empty" types. Level 80 is just fully decked out by default. Even on my character fully spec for healing I would still kill pretty quick. Had to replace the weapon with a lv1 white weapon and restricting myself to autoattacks for things to feel level accurate.

On the other hand I've level more than a dozen characters and still level ones from time to time for BL keys and never had any problems.

[vares.8457]

7 hours ago, drachehexe.6425 said:

and deleted all my old ones. 

This was a bad idea. Now you won’t get the birthday gifts for these characters. 
 

 

7 hours ago, drachehexe.6425 said:

And they are EVERYWHERE almost all the time.

I recently leveled a new character in the starting zone and can’t confirm this. There are some max lvl players but not that many.

7 hours ago, drachehexe.6425 said:

Why aren't these super high leveled characters banned from starting areas

Because there are events in the starting areas that are still relevant for max lvl 

[Daniyyel.3428]

7 hours ago, drachehexe.6425 said:

 

It doesn't help that most of these arrogant, selfish players are not in the least apologetic. 

  Is this how you treat people in map chat?  No one in the game owes you an explanation as to why they are there. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Hauser.2031

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

3 hours ago, Endaris.1452 said:

 

I just compared what my level 80 Power Holo with full ascended including infusions gets downscaled to level 23 compared to a level 23 ele I have that is clad in the level 18 exotic berserker light armor and adequate 2-slot runes giving zerker stats and green/blue power trinkets in a level adequate area (weaker non-soulbound ones cause I use them for key character).

Level 23 Ele
Running Fire trait line with the two minors being in effect plus Burning Precision + Burning Rage, not skilled further
Running Signet of Fire

353 Power, 359 Precision (59.16% crit rate), 101 Ferocity (189.2% crit damage), 66 Condition Damage

Staff AA in fire on the ele crits between 650 and 828 damage on level 20 wolves in the zone (east of Hrothgar's Pass in Snowden Drift) while also inflicting 64 burning damage.

Level 80 Power Holo (downscaled to 23)
Running Explosives/Firearms/Holo with meta power DPS gear (power infusions inclusive) and traits

267 Power, 221 Precision (20.83% crit rate), 74 Ferocity (178.7% crit damage), 0 Condition Damage

Rifle AA crits between 586 and 693 damage on a wolf. (I switched AAR to the ferocity stacking trait to separate the numbers better)
With a bit of vuln and fulfilling some trait conditions (explosive temper, no scope, big boomer, class cannon etc.), up to 830 seem possible.

So obviously, raw stats for higher level characters ARE lower than for lower level ones, even to the degree of reaching level with a lower level character with a cohesive stat build.

And I think that's where half the issue is buried, it's simply not common nor necessary for low level characters to acquire adequately statted gear. Granted, the level 18 exotic gear is an outlier but based on what I've read, the lower level character would still come out at least even if it wore level 20 masterwork gear having only a single stat.

The other half is definitely traits. Empowering Flame gives 43 power to the ele (150 on level 80) and No Scope gives 43 ferocity to the engi (150 on level 80), so while gear is appropriately nerfed, level 80 characters obviously enjoy the full benefits of having 3 unnerfed traitlines at their disposal.

Finally others already mentioned powercreep. Various weapons received rather massive buffs and just deal a lot more damage than they used. In combination with that powercreep I want to add that extra hit effects such as Explosive Entrance and AAR are extremely powerful in lower level areas and the main reason why the engi can actually oneshot wolves with crits. Even something like a Minor Sigil of Air has a massive contribution to oneshotting mobs, dealing more than 1/3 the damage of a critical hit on the AA. With some luck the mentioned ele managed to oneshot a level 19 snow griffon with a single staff autoattack, dealing 839 with Fireball, 307 with Lightning Strike (the name of the sigil damage) and 106 with the following burning tick.

I suppose the solution would be to either restrict the amount of traitlines to an area adequate amount or scale down their effects based on what would be the area adequate amount. So for No Scope, maybe give 43/3 = 14.3 Ferocity instead of the full 43, have Big Boomer only increase damage by 15/3 = 5% etc.

Maybe that would still not be enough as 3 traitlines offer much better boon access than a single one and boons are kind of OP (especially fury if you look at the critrates). Might give it the same treatment on durations which could just make some builds feel insanely bad so not sure if there's a good way to go about this.

its not useful to compare raw stats or the numbers on a single hit instead of comparing your actual dps with a meter. for example, up until recently reaper had 15k auto hits in end-game content, but because of various issues had a low overall dps compared every other class in the game.

Edited May 30, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Endaris.1452]

2 minutes ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

its not useful to compare raw stats or the numbers on a single hit instead of comparing your actual dps with a meter. for example, up until recently reaper had 15k auto hits in end-game content, but because of various issues had a low overall dps compared every other class in the game.

Sustained DPS is pretty irrelevant when the complaint is that players are killing the mobs so fast that there is no chance to hit mobs. Which, to me, clearly indicates that players are one-shotting mobs within a second. Otherwise they wouldn't be a problem because tagging would be easy enough.

I also didn't just compare stats but also indicated where the increased damage of level 80 players comes from and what could be done to decrease that. Why not comment on my suggestions instead of saying that I'm just talking nonsense?

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

41 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

This was a bad idea. Now you won’t get the birthday gifts for these characters.

kek, been playing since the beginning. My oldest character is like 8 months old.

[Ronin.4501]

I can only speak for myself regarding this issue, but whenever I'm taking a level 80 character into a low-level zone, I 1) remove all my trinkets to bring my stat levels down a fair amount and 2) if I see other players engaging with the same group of npcs I am, I try to let them take the npcs down to 50-60% health before I join in on the attack so that we all get credit. I tend to avoid most PvE in general and am only in these areas because I'm working on yet another map completion and want to get through it as quickly as possible, but at the same time I try not to screw over everyone else in the area by nuking everything in my path.

That being said, if you do come across players who are clearing out all the npcs in an area, the best advice I can offer is to move somewhere else for 10-15 minutes and just come back when they're gone. In almost all cases the npcs will have respawned and those players will have moved on.