Lot of gunflame players -> Time to nerf

[RaveOnYou.2819]

1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

As a roamer on 23+ toons, disagree. Where I would agree is that there a lot of builds that while triggering rotations can drop people if the rotation is fully activated and the target is not running enough Vit/Tough to take the impact of an un-interruped rotation. This is not the same as one-shot builds. Gunflame is in that state. Build one and you see the rotation and you can see what people are referring to when you activate a large number of abilities to get that special shot off.  On the receiving end, have also been hit by numbers that are larger than I did while testing out the rotation and unless the toon was in a zerg, they died on the counter attack after they triggered their rotation since everything was on cooldown. IMO, its not a one-shot that we have seen overtime, it's a rotation.

preparation of skills are not included on one shot build in my perspective. most of the people are not on 1v1 situation or aware enemy. and its not easy from 1500 range. at in one shot builds like soulbeasts and weavers there are channeling skills, that alert you for berserker it is really hard. and i see too much this build on vabbi/underworld like roaming servers.

[RaveOnYou.2819]

3 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Type those numbers in the damage formula and you'll realize that you are talking nonsense, especially with your 2,500 toughness comment (which I am going to assume you meant armor because minstrel gear IS 2,300 toughness total).

For clarity sake, since you seem confused (again):

- Full Celestial is 1,814 toughness and results in around 2,700-3.1000 armor

- Full Minstrel is 2,397 toughness and results in 3,200-3,600 armor

As such I myself (full legendary, full berserker, full power stat infusions, food and utility buffs) have never seen gunflame hit (crit in fact,  normal hits are lower) for above 13-15k on celestial targets unless they had stacks of vulnerability on them, I was at +250 power from bloodlust stacks AND had 25 might,

I'm sorry but you have so far:

- misrepresented strike damage

- shown you do not understand the difference between armor and toughness

- made claims about damage numbers which simply do not work with the damage calculation we have for the game

I'll just say your claims seem iffy at best.

i wont argue with you just check classical meta builds. check their "armors". yeah i was wrong about stat, i mostly look at what gw2editor says. bcs i cant count thoughness for every time when i change build. i definetely one shotted with roaming ele build below with no condition on me. amd we know that armor is getting not much effective after some point. so one zerg chrono like below can be one shotted by two berserker only.

roaming ele;

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PGQAIlpyyYuMP2LOWXbxPA-z1IYVFTB+MiVB0rEQyHkxYDQJRCI02bpKzI-w

zerg chrono;

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PiABw2x7lNw+YZMNWJOuWptOA-zVJYjRP/Z0tKInpgGPEhZP8Wa/SD-w

[Cyninja.2954]

16 minutes ago, RaveOnYou.2819 said:

i wont argue with you just check classical meta builds. check their "armors". yeah i was wrong about stat, i mostly look at what gw2editor says. bcs i cant count thoughness for every time when i change build. i definetely one shotted with roaming ele build below with no condition on me. amd we know that armor is getting not much effective after some point.

True, but at the same time damage reduction from other effects like protection or food (is no one running -10% damage food in WvW any more?) work pretty well and while there is dimishing returns on toughness, that also means that the difference between celestial and minstrel is not that great, doesn’t it? (which is it's own issue but that's a different topic)

16 minutes ago, RaveOnYou.2819 said:

so one zerg chrono like below can be one shotted by two berserker only.

That's already by definition not a 1-shot but yes, eating 2 gunflames to the face, with no protection boon or other type of damage reduction will hurt. No one has disputed that.

Meanwhile if you are in a zerg as zerg chrono, engaged with the enemy, you should have protection from your second support or guardian and should be getting continous healing and likely have food buffs provided or worst case get rallied via f.

On the other side the warrior now has used up all his cds, is useless for aproximately 20s minimum with no chance to affect the fight in any shape or form with nearly no defensive skills (if he runs sword/shield) and definitely no defensive skills if he runs gs and no heal skill.

That's why this build is a 1 trick pony meme build.

Edited June 6, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Zekent.3652]

So,  you're telling us that you saw.

>A berserker with fury signet activated.
>The only good skill in rifle.
>The unblockable signet on the top of its head.
>Getting into berserk form literally saying "I WILL DESTROY YOU"

And still died to that?

[Sleepwalker.1398]

15 minutes ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

So,  you're telling us that you saw.

>A berserker with fury signet activated.
>The only good skill in rifle.
>The unblockable signet on the top of its head.
>Getting into berserk form literally saying "I WILL DESTROY YOU"

And still died to that?

I think the op was busy trying to raise a downed zergling and got gunflamed. 💀

[KrHome.1920]

14 hours ago, RaveOnYou.2819 said:

there are lots of people roaming around and really one shot people. when we call one shot its mostly some channeling skills. but in gunflame its really one shot with no animation and people dont know where attack comes from.

That kind of player that doesn't know where the hit came from even if they directly got slapped in the face from 130 range.

WvW players have huge defense options: -10% damage food, permanent protection, gear with 900+ toughness, bonus attributes from structures etc.

The gunflame build is a maximum burst build to be able to counter the nastiest bunkers. As a tradeoff it needs a lot of preparation and is squishy as hell so it can be countered by any build that deals at least mediocre damage played by a person that is able to read the preparation and dodge properly.

There are much stronger builds for other classes that have comaparable pressure and a much higher sustain.

[Zekent.3652]

30 minutes ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

I think the op was busy trying to raise a downed zergling and got gunflamed. 💀

WvW according to OP
 

 

[thechief.3609]

Oh no!!! Gunflame warriors have 2 chances to oneshot me while in berserker mode. God I wish anet would give me 2 dodges or even better make it so that when the warrior activates his signets and berserk mode that it had a huge animation and a cast animation on gunflame its self so I knew when to dodge and when they do miss the gunflame I sure hope they invested everything they had into zerker stats so when I'm not dead I can kill them easily.

Edited June 6, 2023 by thechief.3609

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 hours ago, RaveOnYou.2819 said:

it hits over 20k to 2500 thougness. even full celestial barely have 2500 thoughness on low armor characters. so you can only survive with minstrels or some with stupid soldier gears. i tried to say that, but most people want to understand from their kitten.

Cool. Did you know that you can make better builds that have high power and high toughness as well? And that protection exists? And damage reduction food? And depending on the spec lots of damage reduction from traits? And that depending on the spec some have lots of evades? Or I don't know... dodge.

It's WvW. There is definite gear, level, and build disparities at play when you see montages with huge Gunflame damages. Someone in Rare gear getting hit by a Berserker in Ascended Gear is going to go into downstate. Even Exotic vs Ascended is enough difference that all the damage modifiers will end up heavily compounding.

On equal footing gear wise I have to agree with @Cyninja.2954 above, it is rare to see above 15k with Gunflame against targets geared appropriately.

[Thomas.2564]

Just leave gunzerker alone. Seriously complainig about a build that can do 1 thing, and 1 thing only. I know dodging is for conplete idiots and fools in this current celebot bunker meta. Dodging is basically just at a meme at this point. 

Using the fact that coms get focused by gunzerker's, and that this some how validates it getting nerfed, is just crazy. 

So dos this mean magnet needs to get nerfed to? Sic em soulbeast? Shatter mes? So many classes can be used to focus coms, IF used correctly. But nerfing them do to this one thing would just be crazy.

I do agree that 1500 range is to much. But as i'ev said before in other post's regarding this matter. If gunflame has to be 1200 range, then it goes for ALL skills that are 1500 range. 

Imo we need more high risk, high value builds. Keep the gunflame alive my fellow flamers ❤️

[ArthurDent.9538]

7 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

So,  you're telling us that you saw.

>A berserker with fury signet activated.
>The only good skill in rifle.
>The unblockable signet on the top of its head.
>Getting into berserk form literally saying "I WILL DESTROY YOU"

And still died to that?

And then he auto attacked a random number of times to burn more some dodges then fired off the gunflame because for some reason the auto attack has the same windup animation as gunflame just slightly slower. The projectile animation is clearly different but since the gunflame projectile is one of the fastest in the game good luck dodging based off of that tell.

[Cyninja.2954]

9 minutes ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

And then he auto attacked a random number of times to burn more some dodges then fired off the gunflame because for some reason the auto attack has the same windup animation as gunflame just slightly slower. The projectile animation is clearly different but since the gunflame projectile is one of the fastest in the game good luck dodging based off of that tell.

Signet of Mights active effect (and might provided) lasts 6 seconds (closer to 5 given delay and lag). That's not a lot of time to "auto attack a random number of times". If the gunzerker doesn't immediately gunflame, you can just wait 3-4 seconds and then burn 2 dodges back to back, if you are not skilled enough to dodge specific attacks, and follow that up with a block skill. There done.

Gunzerker is THE definition of multiple tells screaming at a player: BIG DAMAGE INCOMING! BE PREPARED! BE PREPARED!

Tell 1: it's a warrior with a rifle with at least 2, very likely 3 passive signets up.

Tell 2: those passive signets turn active, the warrior acquires multiple boons.

Tell 3: the warrior starts glowing a flashy color of red.

Now pay attention for the next 4-5 seconds, use what you have available in your build (protection alone works wonders) to mitigate at least 1 gunflame shot in case you fail to dodge. Gain some distance between the warrior and yourself to give yourself more time to react. Survive and then auto attack the warrior to death.

Edited June 6, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[TheGrimm.5624]

8 hours ago, RaveOnYou.2819 said:

preparation of skills are not included on one shot build in my perspective. most of the people are not on 1v1 situation or aware enemy. and its not easy from 1500 range. at in one shot builds like soulbeasts and weavers there are channeling skills, that alert you for berserker it is really hard. and i see too much this build on vabbi/underworld like roaming servers.

So you agree, it's not a one-shot build, yes? One shot is one skill, not a rotation of skills. These are not the same as we have seen in the past.

Edited June 6, 2023 by TheGrimm.5624
details

[DeceiverX.8361]

Can't tell if:

- Players have been so babied by so many sources of damage mitigation/negation they don't know how to use the dodge button sparingly for major hits.

and/or

- Kits have been so overloaded for so long everyone is used to spamming mitigation/negation and dodge rolls that when faced with a build that focuses on actual burst damage patterns with low uptime they just assume the entire rest of the kit is that OP when it very much is not.

Kinda seems to be leaning towards the former in this case but yeah, GF is worse than it used to be.

Only real argument here is that there's so much VFX clutter from all the other bloated nonsense in the game that the wombo is hard to see being activated.  But that's still a wholly different argument...

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

19 minutes ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

Can't tell if:

- Players have been so babied by so many sources of damage mitigation/negation they don't know how to use the dodge button sparingly for major hits.

and/or

- Kits have been so overloaded for so long everyone is used to spamming mitigation/negation and dodge rolls that when faced with a build that focuses on actual burst damage patterns with low uptime they just assume the entire rest of the kit is that OP when it very much is not.

Kinda seems to be leaning towards the former in this case but yeah, GF is worse than it used to be.

Only real argument here is that there's so much VFX clutter from all the other bloated nonsense in the game that the wombo is hard to see being activated.  But that's still a wholly different argument...

The VFK clutter should be reduced after today, from allies at least.

[cyberzombie.7348]

51 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Gunzerker is THE definition of multiple tells screaming at a player: BIG DAMAGE INCOMING! BE PREPARED! BE PREPARED

Even the class icon is a dead giveaway to look out for. Just like how weavers and soulbeast gets prioritized by flanking groups.

[RaveOnYou.2819]

yeah its meme, its not for proper roaming but it is bully build to annoy people and work perfectly in that regard. and yeah it is one shot,can do over 20k with effort under 4 sec. anet will nerf soon obviously. lots of mumble until now. i like anet how handle the balance. if balance is done according to this forum, game will be unplayable.

Edited June 6, 2023 by RaveOnYou.2819

[Kate.3679]

it's been a while since we had a proper pinsniping build i say let it stay

[apharma.3741]

I think a better question is should classes be doing as much damage from range as we see them doing?
I'm all for people being able to one shot you if you don't have protection and high toughness if they need to take some risk to do it, but from ranged when you can just run away and try again as part of a swarm is just boring no matter the class or its downtime.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

26 minutes ago, apharma.3741 said:

I think a better question is should classes be doing as much damage from range as we see them doing?
I'm all for people being able to one shot you if you don't have protection and high toughness if they need to take some risk to do it, but from ranged when you can just run away and try again as part of a swarm is just boring no matter the class or its downtime.

That build isn't running away, what do you think it is a sicem sniper or a deadeye?

[prototypedragon.1406]

The charrzooka is too heavy to run away with 🤭given that there is a literal trait that only gives us 25percent movement speed if we only have Melee weapons equipped and lose it when we equip range weapons. At most for speed you would get a stance or warhorn or the signet maybe rampage but if your going full berserker. But mobility wise is only the greatsword  sword or bulls charge 🤣  maybe offhand axe but that one is hard to say.

[Burnfall.9573]

On 6/5/2023 at 1:01 AM, Riba.3271 said:

Various Gun Flame builds are popular right now to smack enemy melee in face for 20k damage from 1500 range twice.

I think there are too many right now with many posting videos on these forums.

 

It is time to nerf signet of might, range of gunflame or move rifle damage elsewhere. Flaming warriors can just use more reasonable Kill Shot, if they want to one shot people from range.

How does one resolve a problem from happening over and over again? 

Remove the source of the problem...

Remove the core root of the problem..

Guild Wars 2 is a 11 years old game...enough with the repetitive-continual-repetitive>Rinse-Repeat nerfs

Remove>Remove-Remove>Removal is the way to put an end to this Never Ending Toxic Cycles

--skills, traits, sigils, runes; Trapper, Celestial, mechanics, designs, Profession Specialization designs; Willbender, Spectar...

Remove them all!!

Warrior Profession; Gunflame, Remove all skills, traits, skills, mechanics that are responsible for it to do high damages at its core root, to prevent it from repeating and continuing the +1 one shot cycle from happening again in the future.

-Removal is to deny access, to prevent access directly at the source-

Edited June 7, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Justine.6351]

11 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

I think a better question is should classes be doing as much damage from range as we see them doing?
I'm all for people being able to one shot you if you don't have protection and high toughness if they need to take some risk to do it, but from ranged when you can just run away and try again as part of a swarm is just boring no matter the class or its downtime.

It's almost like there should be a ganker class that excells at killing glass cannons.