U Cele Bro?

[senftube.6081]

This Video is a react of Valluns Video:

For me Cele is cleary overpowered. Yes there should be some easier picks expecially for newer Players but this is to much. Cut the Boonduration and lower the stats a bit @ArenaNet

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by senftube.6081

[MedievalThings.5417]

There are a lot of things that need fixed. 

Celestial should have never been buffed, but, since they added the 2 stats, they should have reduced the values of every stat.

Daredevil should have to spend sigils to get extra dodges, not just be given 3 because memes.  It doesn't "need" 3 any more than any other build that is melee range.

Sure, there are many other things that need looked at, like why willbender has heavy armor but thief mobility, but that fight is for another day.

[Xenesis.6389]

Meh take a number and get in line, it will be a very long wait. They're currently busy destroying strips and corruption, ain't nobody got time to look at boons or celestial or overbearing expansion roamer specs.

😏🍦

[Burial.1958]

Vallun made the mistake of not remaining truly objectiv (No real Pro & Contra)l. It is clear to everyone that there should definitely be easier classes/stat combos, especially for newer players. But if a stat is so dominantly represented in roaming as this one, then something is not really right. Cele is definitely a problem and often boring to play and against. ArenaNet can still make so many statements but roaming is since RLS an integral part of WvW (maybe not offical supported), which is gladly played by veterans. Since Cele has hardly any use in Zerging (where most newcomers are mostly found) Vallun's statement also just makes not that much sense in my opinion.

-> They should cut the boon duration and look on the stats it gives overall and balance that. Because with EoD and the Boon Spam kitten only several classes are problematic atm with it.

But to say there is not any problem with it is not very serious, sorry. Everyone who roams knows and sees that.  Atm it is simply a jack for all things and that is balance wise simply stupid. Tank, Dmg, condi and good heal and alot of Boon Spam in 1 set that has also more stats overall is stupid.

And the Argument for Ohhh new players need a easy going on set is also confusing because in the hand of a good player this is busted and the vet player will still kill the newbie and that pretty fast. 👻

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Burial.1958

[cthaeh.2168]

The player in that first video is like level 3000. How many hundreds of hours of play do they need to reach that? What builds were his opponents running and what were their experience levels? Because I'm seeing alot of fights against bronze and lower afk camp flippers near spawn.

Vallun addresses this in his video--you can't really judge these builds by some heavily-edited montage video. Just watch the WvW level jump all around in the corner. Anyone can cherry-pick fights from hours and hours of footage to present themselves as some WvW god, but I'll bet they cut out all the times they got smoked by someone better than them. That's not really a compelling argument compared to what Vallun's pointing out.

[Burial.1958]

4 minutes ago, cthaeh.2168 said:

The player in that first video is like level 3000. How many hundreds of hours of play do they need to reach that? What builds were his opponents running and what were their experience levels? Because I'm seeing alot of fights against bronze and lower afk camp flippers near spawn.

Vallun addresses this in his video--you can't really judge these builds by some heavily-edited montage video. Just watch the WvW level jump all around in the corner. Anyone can cherry-pick fights from hours and hours of footage to present themselves as some WvW god, but I'll bet they cut out all the times they got smoked by someone better than them. That's not really a compelling argument compared to what Vallun's pointing out.

 

WvW Lvls tells nothing about how good someone is in roaming. To open doors and kill NPC's doesn't show the personal skill of someone.  There are roamers which never take any Tower, Camps etc. and they can be on Bronce lvl. Then there are many which use Alt accounts (Smurfs).

Also, don't forget the main PvP players, who quite often have pretty low WvW lvls. Don't get fooled by shiny lvls with no meanings.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Burial.1958

[RazieL.5684]

11 minutes ago, Burial.1958 said:

 

WvW Lvls tells nothing about how good someone is in roaming. To open doors and kill NPC's doesn't show the personal skill of someone.  There are roamers which never take any Tower, Camps etc. and they can be on Bronce lvl. Then there are many which use Alt accounts (Smurfs).

Also, don't forget the main PvP players, who quite often have pretty low WvW lvls. Don't get fooled by shiny lvls with no meanings.

His point still stands though... when you see the quality of the players in these clips, most fights end in less than 5 seconds, if he was wearing berserker/marauder in any of those clips they fights would have ended even faster because he just nukes new players and tries to somehow pass it as if the stats are OP instead of the classes he was using... funny how majority of those clips were willbender huh so weird...

[ManiacMika.9851]

I'm a Rock-Paper-Scissors player.
I main Rock.
My friend mains Paper.
He's better at the game and always wins our matches.
But it's okay because my Rock build is OP against Scissors.
Literally undefeated by any pleb that plays scissors.

[cthaeh.2168]

37 minutes ago, Burial.1958 said:

 

WvW Lvls tells nothing about how good someone is in roaming. To open doors and kill NPC's doesn't show the personal skill of someone.  There are roamers which never take any Tower, Camps etc. and they can be on Bronce lvl. Then there are many which use Alt accounts (Smurfs).

Also, don't forget the main PvP players, who quite often have pretty low WvW lvls. Don't get fooled by shiny lvls with no meanings.

Well, that's really my point here. You have no way of gauging the skill differential between the players in these montage videos. You don't know what builds their opponents were running. I mean...you don't even know what builds the author is playing hehe. I can really only say that, based on their level, the author has definitely spent hundreds if not thousands of hours playing WvW.

So again, look at how edited this footage is. They're removing all the parts they don't want you to see. A video heavily edited to further some pre-constructed narrative just doesn't resonate with me, especially when Vallun's video makes many salient points.

[senftube.6081]

1 minute ago, cthaeh.2168 said:

Well, that's really my point here. You have no way of gauging the skill differential between the players in these montage videos. You don't know what builds their opponents were running. I mean...you don't even know what builds the author is playing hehe. I can really only say that, based on their level, the author has definitely spent hundreds if not thousands of hours playing WvW.

So again, look at how edited this footage is. They're removing all the parts they don't want you to see. A video heavily edited to further some pre-constructed narrative just doesn't resonate with me, especially when Vallun's video makes many salient points.

The guy in the video is even a skill clicker......

[Esufer.8762]

10 minutes ago, cthaeh.2168 said:

I mean...you don't even know what builds the author is playing hehe.

He's dropped the build in the comments.

[Ya Ya Yeah.7381]

Is it the gear or the boons? It would be really funny if the nerfed celestial gear and then, it turned out that all those extra stats weren't that important, and people just pieced together sets for the stats that were important, and still rolled everyone because of the BOONS!

Food for thought 🙂

[cyberzombie.7348]

55 minutes ago, Burial.1958 said:

Also, don't forget the main PvP players, who quite often have pretty low WvW lvls. Don't get fooled by shiny lvls with no meanings.

Especially if they been dueling for years prior. 

[thechief.3609]

OK I want to address the fact that this video was made purely just because of the comments section in valluns video about cele. I made a post on there about how cele gear itself isnt inherently OP and its the boon spam that makes it OP and cele in a new players hands might help them a little bit but I  a verterns hands it's stupid and still kills people just as fast as meme builds and the reason it's mostly willbender is because that my main class and just happened to have clips ready to go but I could use any class and make the same video.

Edited June 16, 2023 by thechief.3609

[senftube.6081]

12 minutes ago, Crazy.6029 said:

Is it the gear or the boons? It would be really funny if the nerfed celestial gear and then, it turned out that all those extra stats weren't that important, and people just pieced together sets for the stats that were important, and still rolled everyone because of the BOONS!

Food for thought 🙂

Cele increase the Boon Uptime. It was buffed and ye that is a problem expecially on Boon heavy classes which do provide alot from it. From the Boons they can stack might pretty easy and because of that do pretty good dmg. At the same time they have also more armor, more health, better healing and often decent condi output. And it got even worser because with EoD you have now even more Specs which do pretty good with Cele. As example the Harbinger or Willbender etc. Willbender is one of the worst because he also have insane mobility. So you have a Dmg Dealer with very good sustain bloated with Cele and insane Mobility at the same time. When he is on Dragon he does more dmg but when focused also pretty much dead but not when he plays with Cele because of better sustain. Ofc we can now Balance again on the class and destroy in the name of Cele the other Stat combo builds. But that is not really smart when you ask me. 

Edited June 17, 2023 by senftube.6081

[thechief.3609]

Here is an older video of me talking about cele and talking about the builds I used in the video that's been posted here. 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by thechief.3609

[Junkpile.7439]

So you guys only use celestial so you don't understand how broken it is or just lying?

[babana.7521]

I remember the time when I only use celestial on every piece of my equipment, because I was running alone, no squad, not even a small squad, nothing, alone in wvw. During those times, there were no need for me to learn anything else, all I need was be able to kill if I am caught in a 1v1 situation, run if I am outnumber. Being super sneaky and all. Celestial gear isn't a problem, it's the easiest choice when you don't know there are other stuffs better.  It was also because I just couldn't afford to keep getting new gear, Now that I have all the legendary armor (working on trinket) I  can use any build I like, guess what, non of them are celestial*, because others are better for coordination with squad, *PvE exclueded. 

Celestial does not need to be nerf people needs to "get gud" like I am trying to, I am still very far from "gud".

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by babana.7521

[ZTeamG.4603]

Cele never should have been buffed and they should at least partially undo the old cele buff in WvW, but I'm starting to think the real problem is boons. The way boons were back in the days of core was good--where they were just a temporary boost, and never as ubiquitous nor intended/as easy to be permanently upkept like they are now.

Cele is a common gripe, but the other half of the roaming meta is oneshot builds, and imo those are even less fun to play and play against. Whereas cele fights might be a 30s back and forth exchange that ends with one side ending the fight by capitalizing on a misplay, fights involving oneshot builds either end in seconds or, if they don't, usually just involve the oneshot roamer running away until their cooldowns are back and they can turn around to try their burst again. 

But what do both have in common? Tons of might and other boons. For cele builds, this generally turns a tanky but otherwise wet-noodle build into a mildly hard hitting threat. For oneshot builds, it turns a hard hitting build into, well, a oneshot build. 

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

>handpicked videos to prove a point

kek, I can do the same with Reaper whenever I find bad players who only know how to drop dead. I can do it with Cele, Marauder, Zerker, Dire, and Trailblazer. I have even managed to 5vs1 many times.

on the other hand, I have faced people who deal massive damage and take absolutely no damage themselves, either instantly killing me or dragging the battle for several minutes until my lack of sustain takes its toll.

the thing is, you can't prove your point based on a random encounter in WvW where you either find lifeless losers who know every trick in the book or people who don't even know how they got there.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

5 hours ago, Crazy.6029 said:

Is it the gear or the boons? It would be really funny if the nerfed celestial gear and then, it turned out that all those extra stats weren't that important, and people just pieced together sets for the stats that were important, and still rolled everyone because of the BOONS!

Food for thought 🙂

You really think that these people would point at something that carries them? Lmao, no, they're gonna blame stats and not the real problem. XD
I'm fine with removing Concentration and Expertise from Cele, it won't change the outcome of fights though.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

I slap Cele on everything.  (in Wvw) 

Why care about crit caps, deminishing returns of stats and wasted stats when you can simply not think at all. 

While still performing almost as good as proper gear choice. 

Edited June 17, 2023 by DanAlcedo.3281

[TheGrimm.5624]

Again another witch hunt. So again maybe address the real issue that is the idea of boon spam. Cele doesn't create boon spam, boom spam creates boon spam. So let's say we remove Cele. Would we still have too much boon spam, yes. Would we have too many boons versus conversions/removals/strips? Yes. So maybe we should be focusing on the real issue of boon spam. Cele can be addressed but lets address the bigger issue of too much boon spam that help players in all stat set armor versus just one. Remove Cele and all the other non Cele armor sets still have deal with all the boons and they still have no options to do so, so the issue is not resolved. Boon spam is the underlying issue here. That's what needs to be addressed.

[JTGuevara.9018]

9 hours ago, senftube.6081 said:

This Video is a react of Valluns Video:

For me Cele is cleary overpowered. Yes there should be some easier picks expecially for newer Players but this is to much. Cut the Boonduration and lower the stats a bit @ArenaNet

 

(raises eyebrow)...

Soooo...not ONE instance of warrior on there. That's very telling. Because if celestial is soooo overpowered, then the worst boon-giver in the game (warrior) should also be able to roll over anything right?...

It's not celestial that's the issue. Nobody complained about celestial before classes started getting reworked to fart boons like they ate rice and beans..

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Imo it's the constant nerfing of counterplay for boons that's the biggest problem (and also why I avoid zerg fights altogether) but anet keeps nerfing boonstrip for some reason.