Will Relics invalidate legendary runes? [Merged]

[Gorani.7205]

7 minutes ago, WithoutAssumption.7936 said:

Six legendary runes, not seven, because only six are currently required to gain the effect even though a total of seven are equippable.

No one made that seventh rune unaware of how little marginal utility it offers over six runes, whereas the runes under the current system are just shy of useless without a set of six.

Agreed, but it would require the system to recognize a "threshold" of 6/7 or 7/7 compared to "maxed out slots". It still does change the fact that current legendary runes should not be reduced to below a BiS status with the addition of a relict slot.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

4 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

legendary relics incoming ... 😎

There no sign that is coming. Where the legendary jade core or aqua breather? 

Ultimately I think anet realized legendary runes with the legendary armory was a mistake. Probably killed the exo market.

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

9 minutes ago, WithoutAssumption.7936 said:

No one made that seventh rune unaware of how little marginal utility it offers over six runes, whereas the runes under the current system are just shy of useless without a set of six.

The completionist in me DID make that 7th, fully aware the little impact

The completionist in me hates that my Rebreather is still not legendary.
Currently no player can claim 100% legendary cause it is not possible.
With introduction of Relics, I feel like ... here we go again. Finally I dont need to buy stuff when making a new character, Anet comes and turns around on me. 

Btw just to be clear: I am not attacking your comment, it is valid, just not for OCD COmpletionists like me 😄 

[suialthor.7164]

32 minutes ago, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

I do NOT want again an item I need on EVERY character individually.

It may be per build for every character.  Running multiple builds with the same relic, we either move it manually after switching build templates or we need more relics to compensate. 

Each character multiplied by the number of build templates is a large number of relics.

[suialthor.7164]

Edit: Double post.  Don't see a button to delete this one.

Edited June 28, 2023 by suialthor.7164
Double Post

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

1 hour ago, suialthor.7164 said:

It may be per build for every character.  Running multiple builds with the same relic, we either move it manually after switching build templates or we need more relics to compensate. 

Each character multiplied by the number of build templates is a large number of relics.

I don't forsee it playing poorly with build templates like you describe.  I can't see why it wouldn't work like any other piece of equipment in that the same relic could be equipped on multiple templates per character.

[BlueLycan.8510]

The lack of any word from Anet on this so far is not very reassuring. Pure silence speaks volumes.

[idpersona.3810]

3 minutes ago, BlueLycan.8510 said:

The lack of any word from Anet on this so far is not very reassuring. Pure silence speaks volumes.

It's only been a day. But I am really hoping we get some sort of response to this issue sometime relatively soon.

Edited June 28, 2023 by idpersona.3810

[Brandon Uzumaki.1524]

Oh boy, imagine if this works like Power Cores lol.

[idpersona.3810]

13 minutes ago, Brandon Uzumaki.1524 said:

Oh boy, imagine if this works like Power Cores lol.

I hope not. That would be really messed up.

I hate how they handle jade bot cores and fishing. I have too many characters, so getting them all at least level 6 cores has been expensive. I would gladly trade in 10+ level 10 cores for a legendary one all my characters could use. 

[Lian.9275]

17 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

I hope not. That would be really messed up.

I hate how they handle jade bot cores and fishing. I have too many characters, so getting them all at least level 6 cores has been expensive. I would gladly trade in 10+ level 10 cores for a legendary one all my characters could use. 

I would be messed up and the way the jade bot cores and fishing works is really weird considering how incredibly alt-friendly game GW2 is as a whole.

[Rubi Bayer.8493]

Hey all, I want to give you a quick response on this since it's of interest to so many of you! We're working on some more in-depth information to share with you, but in the meantime I can let you know that we are aware of your concerns that the Relics mechanic devalues Legendary Runes. We want to make sure we address those concerns, and we're finalizing a plan to compensate those of you who spent time and energy acquiring those Legendary Runes.

We'll be back with more details soon--thank you all for your feedback on Secrets of the Obscure and your excitement for Tuesday's announcement!

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 minutes ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hey all, I want to give you a quick response on this since it's of interest to so many of you! We're working on some more in-depth information to share with you, but in the meantime I can let you know that we are aware of your concerns that the Relics mechanic devalues Legendary Runes. We want to make sure we address those concerns, and we're finalizing a plan to compensate those of you who spent time and energy acquiring those Legendary Runes.

We'll be back with more details soon--thank you all for your feedback on Secrets of the Obscure and your excitement for Tuesday's announcement!

Hi Ruby. If you all did not have plans for Legendary Relics, or to put them into the Legendary Rune interface, then please consider either of these two paths. You'll otherwise be breaking something that those that have Legendary Runes have been using, and got those runes for. I'm not sure how difficult any of that would be mind you, but that is the best course to take. It could be as much as to add them in as a Legendary Relic redeemable by a voucher for current holders of Legendary Runes with a crafting recipe to follow afterwards.

[Omega.6801]

9 minutes ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hey all, I want to give you a quick response on this since it's of interest to so many of you! We're working on some more in-depth information to share with you, but in the meantime I can let you know that we are aware of your concerns that the Relics mechanic devalues Legendary Runes. We want to make sure we address those concerns, and we're finalizing a plan to compensate those of you who spent time and energy acquiring those Legendary Runes.

We'll be back with more details soon--thank you all for your feedback on Secrets of the Obscure and your excitement for Tuesday's announcement!

Thanks a lot. Didn't expect this tbh. Looking forward to what your solution will be. 😺

[BlueLycan.8510]

41 minutes ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hey all, I want to give you a quick response on this since it's of interest to so many of you! We're working on some more in-depth information to share with you, but in the meantime I can let you know that we are aware of your concerns that the Relics mechanic devalues Legendary Runes. We want to make sure we address those concerns, and we're finalizing a plan to compensate those of you who spent time and energy acquiring those Legendary Runes.

We'll be back with more details soon--thank you all for your feedback on Secrets of the Obscure and your excitement for Tuesday's announcement!

I'm certainly glad to see this and appreciate the acknowledgement of our concerns. But I do hope "compensating" doesn't mean still taking away the functionality and just giving us a free booster or something silly like that. It's not about the hard work that I put into getting the runes so much as being about the fact I did so to never have to worry about changing my builds to try something new on any character ever again.

Either way, thanks for considering the impact this has on those of us with the runes. o/

[suialthor.7164]

54 minutes ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

We want to make sure we address those concerns, and we're finalizing a plan to compensate those of you who spent time and energy acquiring those Legendary Runes.

Thanks.

Could you also discuss among yourselves how much players hate specific farms to obtain the current runes.  It sounds like you are now switching that same awful mechanic (now adding achievement requirements) to the relic system.

Think about when the monk runes were dungeon specific ( for some simply requiring any dungeon).  Did you ever hear anyone excited about farming up the currency for the set to get the bonus?  It felt like punishment and actively discouraged some of us from gearing multiple characters.  The legendary runes provided so much freedom and fun.  Going back to needing to farm specific relics is absolutely dreadful.  

[idpersona.3810]

1 hour ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hey all, I want to give you a quick response on this since it's of interest to so many of you! We're working on some more in-depth information to share with you, but in the meantime I can let you know that we are aware of your concerns that the Relics mechanic devalues Legendary Runes. We want to make sure we address those concerns, and we're finalizing a plan to compensate those of you who spent time and energy acquiring those Legendary Runes.

We'll be back with more details soon--thank you all for your feedback on Secrets of the Obscure and your excitement for Tuesday's announcement!

Thank you! Glad the concerns aren't going unheard. 
Looking forward to hearing what's coming. I'll hold off on my own crafting until I get a better idea of if it's worth it.

[Essence Snow.3194]

Great to hear...it's refreshing even.

[Eclipsiste.3251]

1 hour ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hey all, I want to give you a quick response on this since it's of interest to so many of you! We're working on some more in-depth information to share with you, but in the meantime I can let you know that we are aware of your concerns that the Relics mechanic devalues Legendary Runes. We want to make sure we address those concerns, and we're finalizing a plan to compensate those of you who spent time and energy acquiring those Legendary Runes.

We'll be back with more details soon--thank you all for your feedback on Secrets of the Obscure and your excitement for Tuesday's announcement!

Not interested in any "compensation". I just want to keep the features I have.

Any "compensation" that would include being forced to farm again to regain the same freedom and flexibility I have today with my leg runes won't be acceptable for me.

This would create the worst precedent in this game: the possibility for you to remove a feature we obtained through long and costly farm only to force us to spend more hours and resources to obtain it again. What would be next? What feature could be removed / split into several grind-intensive items? This is definitely a dealbreaker to me. I'm withholding my preorder for the expansion until we have clear confirmation we won't lose one of the best features of the game only because you're looking for more ways to keep us playing.

You writing "We want to make sure we address those concerns, and we're finalizing a plan to compensate those of you who spent time and energy acquiring those Legendary Runes" looks awfully like you overlooked the impact of this new system on leg runes. This is not reassuring at all.

The only acceptable answer is one that provides the exact advantages of current leg runes: permanent access to all relics, current and future, for all characters on the account, with the same ease of use we enjoy now.

Like many suggested here, a legendary relic would be the perfect answer and could be sent to all who have a complete set of leg runes.

Anything else would be an arbitrary punishment towards players who trusted the legendary armory system

[konzen.2348]

I vote for a legendary relic please. The special bonus is the major reason why legendary rune was attractive in the first place prior SotO. 

[Mike.7983]

Hoping won't have to fork out more gold for a feature I am already using...got armor sigil and runes full legendary. If I have to fork out more gold for something I have been enjoying for free currently I will snap. Def do grandfather current owners of a full set all future relics for free or will be massive backlash.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Mike.7983

[Alice.4215]

Give 1 Legendary Relic to everyone who has 6(or more) Legendary Runes.

Given that it is a 6th Bonus that is involved here, it is only fitting to do so.

Meaning that people who had less than 6 Legendary Runes would not be benefitting/losing out on the 6th bonus anyway.

Else, everyone else has to craft the new Legendary Relic. 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Alice.4215

[Voltaire.8369]

1 hour ago, Eclipsiste.3251 said:

Not interested in any "compensation". I just want to keep the features I have.

The only acceptable answer is one that provides the exact advantages of current leg runes: permanent access to all relics, current and future, for all characters on the account, with the same ease of use we enjoy now.

Like many suggested here, a legendary relic would be the perfect answer and could be sent to all who have a complete set of leg runes.

This^

One of the core principles of the original game was "no gear treadmill/hamster wheel." Legendary items were supposed to be forever. Taking away functionality we've earned, regardless of the form, is unacceptable - period.

[Tulki.1458]

My first impression: You're invalidating part of a large gold sink in the game while also pushing ads to buy gold in the gem store. Purposeful or not, it's not a good look.

Yeah, though I'm just reiterating what's been said already, compensation is not what I'm looking for. I am looking to receive the exact same functionality that I crafted the runes for. That is, I expect nothing less than for the expansion to launch with a legendary relic slot that I get for free for having six legendary runes bound to my account. And no, not for a "discount" as compensation. Free, at launch (not in a quarterly update), full stop.

Revoking a legendary (and not just any legendary, but one of the most expensive ones to create if you craft all six) would be one of the worst precedents set in the game's history. I'll even be brutally honest here and say that your initial silence and the hesitance to just give players back what they already earned is the thing that stopped me from pre-ordering the expansion. I get it, you want relics in the game as another type of reward, and legendary runes plus the armory get in the way of that. But you already added them to the game, and you already made a contract with players that if they craft the legendary runes, they will have full account-wide freedom to swap rune set bonuses. You are now clawing that back for an expansion and asking people to earn it again, which violates the "no loot treadmill" promise of GW2. That on its own should have been a big enough problem for your game director to veto the feature - it's extremely weird that he didn't.

The grind to unlock them was so significant that any level of disrespect for players' time obtaining them is extremely damning and kinda deflates my desire to play the game any more. Because if you're willing to devalue legendaries to add a feature bullet to an expansion, what else are you willing to do, and why would I want to stick around and find out? This game is supposed to pride itself on never invalidating your progress. Now it is, and now it's going to compete with other games that do have vertical progression, and handle it better than your game does. Is that a good idea?

The nagging thing on my mind is why didn't you just move the stats over to gear instead? There was an elegant solution to decouple stats all this time, and it never required you to introduce another equipment slot. Hell, you could have done something even more interesting than relics by removing the stats from runes altogether, but lowering the set bonus to 2 or 3 runes instead, reducing the overall stat budget but allowing players to make more qualitative build decisions. Instead, we have a solution to a self-made problem being sold as an expansion feature.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Tulki.1458

[Gracielline.8126]

3 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hey all, I want to give you a quick response on this since it's of interest to so many of you! We're working on some more in-depth information to share with you, but in the meantime I can let you know that we are aware of your concerns that the Relics mechanic devalues Legendary Runes. We want to make sure we address those concerns, and we're finalizing a plan to compensate those of you who spent time and energy acquiring those Legendary Runes.

We'll be back with more details soon--thank you all for your feedback on Secrets of the Obscure and your excitement for Tuesday's announcement!

Thanks for sharing a quick response on this topic. Like many others, and just re-iterating to ensure voices are heard - I crafted Legendary Runes exactly for what it is used today - i.e. the ability to BOTH select the 1 to 6 stats and also the 6th set special mechanics/relics.

Whilst I'm looking forward to see how the team plans to address the concerns of devalued Legendary Runes, what I am not looking forward is monetary or efforts or "random boosters" compensation of sort. Rather, the new Legendary Rune/Relic system should still allow players whom've crafted full sets of Legendary Runes the ability to -  BOTH select the 1 to 6 stats and also the 6th set special mechanics/relics. 

The whole concept of devaluing the QOL Functionality we've gained by crafting legendary is mindblowing to say the least. And even in worst case scenario if no compensations are possible, there should be Legendary Relics-of-equivalent where players can craft them (perhaps at reduced cost / free if they've completed a set of 6 Leggy Runes) to regain the "same QOL" that they've lost due to the patch.

 

Edit: Just to also add, whilst one can argue that the "QOL of Legendary Runes" aren't really lost - i.e. you still can use it to stat-select the 6 piece stats; let me really ask this question then - once the special effects are "separated out" from the 6th set Rune Bonus, how many "useful" variety of stats are there really? It'll always be Power/Precision/Ferocity for power classes; Condition Damage/Duration for condi classes; and Healing/Boon Duration/etc. for support classes. IMO, the 6th set bonuses' QOL from Legendary Rune outweighs their Stats counterpart alone, a fair weightage would be 50/50 amongst the two so yes, the "Legendary Runes" are nerfed by at least 50%.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Gracielline.8126