Silly sword changes no one asked for [Merged]

[Tazer.2157]

16 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

Tell you how to use a weapon that offers you two leaps, one with an evade, and now with some added  counterpressure ability which the old version had none of?

I don't know man. Last night I was dueling on a full melee ranger build in WvW. And I had fun.

Would I have taken a fix to the cast time on Hornet's Sting and left the old sword with that? Sure. Can I jam with the new version? Yes. Can you still kite on it? Yes.

Yes please explain . Stop using buzzwords like "adds to counterpressure" without explaining how the new changes add to the so called "counterpressure". The old sword did have counterpressure, it was a forward leap after having the ability to disengage from a losing battle which I'd argue fits the definition of counterpressure. With two forward leaps, all you can do is go all in. 

[Acyk.9671]

6 minutes ago, Tazer.2157 said:

There you have said so yourself. What used to take 1 button, now takes 3. Very nice. 

about facing was part of the disengage so no it remains coherent

Edited June 28, 2023 by Acyk.9671

[Lazze.9870]

34 minutes ago, Tazer.2157 said:

Yes please explain . Stop using buzzwords like "adds to counterpressure" without explaining how the new changes add to the so called "counterpressure". The old sword did have counterpressure, it was a forward leap after having the ability to disengage from a losing battle which I'd argue fits the definition of counterpressure. With two forward leaps, all you can do is go all in. 

It gives counterpressure in form of having better sources of damage and immob.

It retains some kiting abilities by still having two leaps, one with an evade and the ability to play with an off-hand dagger.

This is a PvP/WvW perspective.

The way you talk about things makes it sound like you're unable to turn you camera.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Lazze.9870

[Tazer.2157]

47 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

It gives counterpressure in form of having better sources of damage and immob.

It retains some kiting abilities by still having two leaps, one with an evade and the ability to play with an off-hand dagger.

This is a PvP/WvW perspective.

The way you talk about things makes it sound like you're unable to turn you camera.

Again, you didn't explain how you would play the class. I want to know how you would use the sword instance by instance. Start with 

1. Leap into enemy. 

Please continue from here, and tell me when you think  the second leap will come in handy. 

Also, did you try to turn the cam when you are engaged in combat? It is tedious to do, and for you to say "just rotate camera" is not  good reason to agree to this change. But I am not surprised by this. This change is from the same team that thought spamming spirits is a good way to keep alacrity up on druid, or that having a class that requires you to have 5 buttons (3 skills, 2 for attack and disengage)  just to control the pet (the untamed) is good for the game. 

[The Boz.2038]

17 minutes ago, Tazer.2157 said:

Please continue from here, and tell me when you think  the second leap will come in handy. 

Let's see...

Enemy disengages?
Enemy dodges away?
Enemy keeps moving?
Movement imparing effects are in play?
You dodge away, and need to reengage?
Sheesh, the number of options here...

19 minutes ago, Tazer.2157 said:

Also, did you try to turn the cam when you are engaged in combat? It is tedious to do, and for you to say "just rotate camera" is not  good reason to agree to this change

...what?
What are you even on about here?

[thaniretouni.4762]

This is my feedback on Ranger sword with just  45mins of playing. It is lukewarm. So it has positives adn negatives. These new skills make you more predictable, but deliver (especially with the extra power gained from the updated trait) more burst dmg (around 30% I would say, maybe a tiny bit more) and  more consistently (it is hard to miss these skills now whereas the previous ones had too many animations and it was easy to either mess up due to lag or in some cases based on terrain it wouldnt do much difference compared to running). It also make it a bit more boring to play but you are a bit more excited with higher dmg I guess. So, as I said, less flexibility in terms of combos (in the past u could ,2a, 2b, f1, 3, 2a, 2b etc) now it is plain 2 and 3. BOOM, u used them you wait for cooldowns and the 3 is quite a long one. But the dmg is better overall and now sword/dagger can actually take someone down instead of just jumping around. Sword/Axe though is less defensive now which is not good.

 

If we at least get a way to reset the cooldown of skill 3 like in the past, it would be nice.

[Sansar.1302]

6 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Sword previously was bad.
Sword now is good.
is one of the few things this patch got right.

No it is worse now than ever

[Tazer.2157]

51 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Let's see...

Enemy disengages?
Enemy dodges away?
Enemy keeps moving?
Movement imparing effects are in play?
You dodge away, and need to reengage?
Sheesh, the number of options here...

...what?
What are you even on about here?

 The only scenario I see to use the second leap is when the enemy uses a blink skill to disengage. But then again, the second leap has a much shorter range and would most likely not be able to catch up.

But I think I know the reasoning for the change: Its to give a finisher to the sword. The devs are hoping that you leap and deal enough damage to finish a player off. But guess what, people will complain and the damage will be nerfed, you can quote me on this later. Then we will have come full circle and and this time, since the utility from the weapon has been removed, we will have two leaps that does nothing. 

 

[Abadae.6984]

Well it is clear that there are ppl who like the new set of skills and ppl who are against it. One group is happy, the other is not. 

This is easy to solve: keep both sets of skills or, make an option to choose in the build pannel. Both groups happy. Just as I suggested before.

Giving more options for weapon skills makes a weapon also less predictable. Maybe something for other weapons on other classes too? 

At least giving ppl their old way of playing back. It doesnt matter if it is better or not. Does not matter, even if the leap had a instant kill on the end. The old set of skills... I dont know if it was any good at all. Just I liked playing it. Feels a bit Legolas like and killed enough for my taste. In the end this is a roleplaying game. I dont want the best build/class but the one I enjoy most. This has been stolen from me at the last update on playing my ranger. And this is what I want back. 

[BumboJumbo.1308]

I love what they did to sword for both wvw/pve.

It has utility with the immob on 3, has big damage numbers all around, tons of mobility, and gives opportunity to evade more with vigor on 2.

[enkeny.6937]

12 hours ago, Tazer.2157 said:

You have never used a sword if you think the backward leap was just a dodge. It was so much more than that. Also why are we celebrating the loss of functionality in a weapon for more DPS when it will never be used as a DPS weapon? The longbow and the greatsword are better weapons for that role. 

I used it. I used it even the time, when the auto attack was so bugged, that you can't dodge, so you must use Hornet Sting to dodge, but it was delayed too. 
In PvE the 2 new skill has massive damage, it over damage the great sword and long bow.

12 hours ago, Tazer.2157 said:

Like what? Tell me how you would use the new sword with two leaps. I am all ears. 

If I'm far, use it to gap close, if I'm near use it to damage, if I low on health, use healing spring and do 2 leap finisher for more heal. 

Also, forward leap+evade is good offense, because you evade the attack and you're close, so you can attack while the mob still in after cast animation. you don't loose time to go back, even leap skills need time to go back.

[SleepyBat.9034]

On 6/27/2023 at 12:17 PM, Tazer.2157 said:

So after many iterations, they have finally succeeded their quest to make the ranger sword unfun, irrelevant and pointless. While the earlier one had a forward leap as close up, a backward leap that also functioned as a disengage and a dodge, the new and IMPROVED sword gives us two forward leaps so we can  mindlessly engage and get ourselves killed. Well done, well thought out and changes like this only gives me hope for the future. What's next, point-blank shot giving superspeed instead of a knockback? I cannot wait for the future!  

Please stop meddling with the sword, it was a very fun weapon to play with and now it takes it place along with the dagger. Slow clap. 

New sword good

[Gotejjeken.1267]

The blunt is they removed the identity from sword.  When I read a lot of replies, I kind of wonder who has been around long enough to remember what that identity was.

Let's go way back...to the OG sword:

This is by far my favorite iteration.  It made perfect sense, and everything worked fluidly.  The auto meant you could be aggressive, can evade in two different directions with 2, and serpent strike was crazy useful for flanking.

They then progressively ruined that with this forward leap insistence.  The sword isn't about forward leaps, it's about kiting.  You simply do not kite the same way with two identical linear leaps as what you see in the video above--in fact you can't.

It's not about being able to turn the camera either; it's a direct hinderance to have to leap in, about face, and leap out.  Prior you had a skill that would just send you backward and if you wanted to keep going you about face and use the leap, otherwise you re-engage.

Removing the flanking animation from serpent strike may be the most egregious change though.  Positioning is everything in competitive, and even with two leaps you are still leaping.  It's literally the blandest possible change they can do, and it accomplishes nothing.  Why not just give Pounce two charges and keep serpent strike the same? 

Seriously, in what world is putting two identical leaps (aside from slight range and debuff differences) on two different keys even remotely good design? 

[Tazer.2157]

3 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Removing the flanking animation from serpent strike may be the most egregious change though

I agree.  At the center node of the PvP colosseum map, you could literally fight at the edge and then use serpent strike to fake a dodge into the platform below. The enemy would fall for it and jump down, but the serpent strike animation, being like a U would keep you on the platform. It was tough to pull off, but when it worked it felt so good. 

[Matoro.9708]

For this update, we have decided to do something stunning and brave.

Instead of having the Ranger stay at range with thematic abilities, we are giving you two nearly identical leaps so you can stay as close as physically possible at all times. 

But that's not all. It's our hope that this change and others like it actually keep you at a distance from the class itself - an incredible new breakthrough in meta-roleplaying.

Please give us your feedback, we will be eating popcorn later and could use a good laugh.

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

Ranger. Does. Not. Mean. Ranged.

🙄

[Matoro.9708]

It does when it serves the purposes of humor lol

[Altex.6083]

Sword is so much fun now. If you stand inside the hitbox, you can leap through. You combine stationary whirling defense with being stuck in leap animation. Btw you can get hit while in the animation. But it hits like a kitten truck, that's for sure. 

[anninke.7469]

Hey, I just had this crazy idea - maybe they'll put the "hopping around" skills on (one of) the maces!

[kharmin.7683]

That would be a kick in the pants.

[anninke.7469]

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

That would be a kick in the pants.

Precisely.

[psizone.8437]

6 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

That would be a kick in the pants.

Ranger sword autoattack used to have a kick in it's chain. 😢

Now I have to run rock gazelle to get it back.

[kharmin.7683]

You're right.  I had forgotten that!

[Arheundel.6451]

On 7/19/2023 at 1:31 PM, Matoro.9708 said:

For this update, we have decided to do something stunning and brave.

Instead of having the Ranger stay at range with thematic abilities, we are giving you two nearly identical leaps so you can stay as close as physically possible at all times. 

But that's not all. It's our hope that this change and others like it actually keep you at a distance from the class itself - an incredible new breakthrough in meta-roleplaying.

Please give us your feedback, we will be eating popcorn later and could use a good laugh.

Truthfully...it has become very difficult to play anything ranged these days, given the amount of gap closers and reflects. These days people can build themselves to completely neutralize a ranged..ranger and keep them on the defensive for 3/4 of the fight. I only play sic'em soulbeast as longbow build with SoH, it does work in specific situations  but that's it, as it stands...longbow gameplay got no place outside the +1 role at equal skill level.

I have to say that once you get used to aggressive playstyles, the new sword makes more sense. If you favour melee combat on ranger then sword is the way to go, sure way to keep pressure on kiting enemies

[Matoro.9708]

3 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Truthfully...it has become very difficult to play anything ranged these days, given the amount of gap closers and reflects. These days people can build themselves to completely neutralize a ranged..ranger and keep them on the defensive for 3/4 of the fight. I only play sic'em soulbeast as longbow build with SoH, it does work in specific situations  but that's it, as it stands...longbow gameplay got no place outside the +1 role at equal skill level.

I have to say that once you get used to aggressive playstyles, the new sword makes more sense. If you favour melee combat on ranger then sword is the way to go, sure way to keep pressure on kiting enemies

So instead of the game nurturing whatever playstyle we want, it aggressively deletes whatever doesn't perform well?